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Keep the discussion ON TOPIC. This thread is for discussing the terror attacks in Paris. |
On November 17 2015 21:12 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 18:32 CptMarvel wrote:On November 17 2015 00:25 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 16 2015 18:31 CptMarvel wrote:On November 16 2015 18:19 Rebs wrote:On November 16 2015 18:17 CptMarvel wrote:On November 16 2015 02:39 VelJa wrote:
I just want to say this here
I'm sad, but I'm not dead.
For the second time in 2015, we face terror.
I'm afraid, I'm not weak, I will live more & more my life because my ancester works for this : Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité. Ought to calm down with quoting the french revolution, aka the most wrongly praised and grossly misunderstood of all time. Hey, sacking jails and palaces while slicing of heads, iz all for liberty and democracy bro.. Haha. Hiding behind democracy and liberty indeed, while really serving the everygrowing interests of the freshly born middle-class. A very symptomatic event that was a starting-block for (even darker) times to come. Same as singing La Marseillaise and putting a french flag filter over your facebook photo : not the best of choices in response to such events. However, because everyone's so desperate for a way to cope with grief, I'll let it go. It's fashionable and everything to be cynical and cleverer than the sheep crowd by not buying the official discourse, but maybe you should realize that for all its failures, the French Revolution planted the seeds of countless emancipatory movements, and indeed, the actual French democracy. Western liberal democracy owes a huge amount to the Revolution. A flag can symbolize many things. It can symbolize nationalism and biggotry, aggressivity, and mindless patriotism. It can also represent a wounded nation that has a lot to offer to the world: a hedonist lifestyle, a uniquely secular society, a enormous lot of extraordinary artists and thinkers and values of enlightment that have shaped the rest of the world. It's that France that is represented by our flags, because it's that France that has been targeted. It's not a Front National convention those guys have chosen to attack. It's our terrasses, our concert halls, our stadiums. My flag is not MLP's flag, and it is not nationalist, aggressive or exclusive. Young, urban, progressive people, enjoying life and what Paris has to offer. But again, cynicism is fashionable and it's so cool to be critical when for once people are united behind something obvious. Fashionable? That's basic history and, frankly, just common sense. Not to mention it's also what highschool books actually teach these days.. The french flag was almost litteraly born in a puddle of blood, it's not and has never been the best of symbols. Just like hashtagging PrayForParis is plain ridiculous after such religion-based terrorist attacks. At a time where everything pushes you towards thoughtless emotions, using your head is the strongest of weapons So much hipsterism in one post. Good try judging the history of France, the symbolism of the tricolor or of the marseillaise (or the state of the world) with the glasses of a young privileged kiddo. Do you even know what the white, the blue and the red represent in the flag ? lol And the critic of the hashtag pray for paris si so dumb I don't know where to start with : certain religious words have been secularised and that's quite a huge simplification to believe that, because some tard islamist murder people in Paris, it means people that pray - whatever their religion - should feel somewhat responsible and prevent theirselves from praying for the victims. The mosque of paris invite people (not only muslim) to come tomorrow to pray and reaffirm the desire to defend the republic and its value, should they prevent themselves from doing it ? Using your head is understanding the complexity of the world, and not reacting like a virgin to everything that happen before your eyes.
I do, as a matter of fact, know exactly where the colors come from as I've been teaching french for a few years in foreign countries and have no choice but regularly go through french history in order to understand it/explain it better. I don't really understand why you're being so agressive though, calling me a "privileged kiddo" and a "virgin" (???) for trying to have an unbiased opinion on the topic.
Religion is another debate.
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before sending soldiers overseas, the president should first sending soldiers into that area to do some cleaning
i just hope no police man are severely wounded
that's literally a war going on on french soil
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ISIS or whatever Boogyman-De-Jour will continue these attacks until every government in the world bows down to a world government.
They even made that new bond movie to show us sheeple what their plan is.
User was warned for this post
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can't find any reliable source if the terrorist are still on the run or if they have been shut down
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This is absolutely disgusting  Why would anyone do these things
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2-3 guys killed, the others one are still barricading themselves
they will get shut down soon enough, well done by the police force
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The French police are doing a good job so far apparently.
Considering what many other countries have been doing in the Middle East, it makes you think "Why France? Why now?". Given that the terrorists claimed it was for Syria, with all the Syrian refugees currently in Europe, I buy into the theory that these attacks were designed to separate the main European society from the Syrian refugees. Accomplishing that would further ISIS' plans to create war between all Muslims and non-Muslims, by polarizing all moderate Muslims, and their host countries vs. them.
Otherwise it doesn't make sense for France to be a target now - but given their refugees, and their bombing in Syria, it is understandable.
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On November 18 2015 07:36 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 07:28 FFW_Rude wrote:On November 18 2015 07:14 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2015 06:34 maartendq wrote:On November 18 2015 06:25 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On November 18 2015 06:08 maartendq wrote:On November 18 2015 05:27 Ghanburighan wrote:
Related events in Hanover happening now:
Edit: -_- Stealthblue... 24 seconds, really? And paranoia has successfully gripped Europe (conveniently helped along by the gutter press, as per usual). Now every bag that is left unattended for even 5 seconds will garner mass panic and bomb alarms. Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. We are doing exactly what they want us to do: willing to sacrifice bit by our (hard fought) freedoms for not even a smidgen of extra safety. We are basically allowing them to indirectly control how we live our lives. I'll repeat that: we are allowing vermin to control how we live our lives. didnt they find a fake ambulance rigged with a massive amount of explosives right next to the stadium? think before you post plz. Nobody wanted to bow down to the terrorists and cancel the game... Can't find that on quality newspaper websites. stop reading the gutter press plz. They will just post whatever gets them the most clicks, objectivity and reason be damned. While I agree that Bild isn't exactly a quality newspaper, you probably shouldn't talk about objectivity as you have zero clue about the validity of the threats as the police have refused to divulge who are their sources - and I doubt Volker Kluwe the head of the police would state they "had concrete indications" without at least a somewhat reliable source. On November 18 2015 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 18 2015 06:08 maartendq wrote:And paranoia has successfully gripped Europe (conveniently helped along by the gutter press, as per usual). Now every bag that is left unattended for even 5 seconds will garner mass panic and bomb alarms. Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. We are doing exactly what they want us to do: willing to sacrifice bit by our (hard fought) freedoms for not even a smidgen of extra safety. We are basically allowing them to indirectly control how we live our lives. I'll repeat that: we are allowing vermin to control how we live our lives. Seriously, it's like people are totally clueless about what their objectives are. They are trying to spark a war against Muslims and people on the right around the world are playing right into it, it only makes sense from the prospective of feeding the military industrial complex by being in perpetual conflict. Seeing as you are from the US you are probably unaware about the state of things around the world... Outside of the US people are talking about fighting the extremists parts of Islam. Selon le Ministre de l'Intérieur de Basse-Saxe, contrairement à ce qui a été annoncé par certains médias locaux, il n'y a eu aucune arrestation et aucun explosif n'a été découvert après l'annulation du match Allemagne-Pays-Bas qui devait se disputer ce soir à Hanovre. Minister of basse-saxe said that contrary to what was told by local media, there was no arrestation and nno explosives has beenn found after the cancellation of the Germany/Netherlland football match that should havee been at Hanovre tonight. http://www.liberation.fr/direct/ That doesn't change the fact that the threat might have been real and credible. You have to consider that the match was canceled by the police based on what they must have considered credible sources and not some random citizen crying "bomb" over an unattended bag... Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 07:31 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 18 2015 07:14 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2015 06:34 maartendq wrote:On November 18 2015 06:25 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On November 18 2015 06:08 maartendq wrote:And paranoia has successfully gripped Europe (conveniently helped along by the gutter press, as per usual). Now every bag that is left unattended for even 5 seconds will garner mass panic and bomb alarms. Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. We are doing exactly what they want us to do: willing to sacrifice bit by our (hard fought) freedoms for not even a smidgen of extra safety. We are basically allowing them to indirectly control how we live our lives. I'll repeat that: we are allowing vermin to control how we live our lives. didnt they find a fake ambulance rigged with a massive amount of explosives right next to the stadium? think before you post plz. Nobody wanted to bow down to the terrorists and cancel the game... Can't find that on quality newspaper websites. stop reading the gutter press plz. They will just post whatever gets them the most clicks, objectivity and reason be damned. While I agree that Bild isn't exactly a quality newspaper, you probably shouldn't talk about objectivity as you have zero clue about the validity of the threats as the police have refused to divulge who are their sources - and I doubt Volker Kluwe the head of the police would state they "had concrete indications" without at least a somewhat reliable source. On November 18 2015 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 18 2015 06:08 maartendq wrote:And paranoia has successfully gripped Europe (conveniently helped along by the gutter press, as per usual). Now every bag that is left unattended for even 5 seconds will garner mass panic and bomb alarms. Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. We are doing exactly what they want us to do: willing to sacrifice bit by our (hard fought) freedoms for not even a smidgen of extra safety. We are basically allowing them to indirectly control how we live our lives. I'll repeat that: we are allowing vermin to control how we live our lives. Seriously, it's like people are totally clueless about what their objectives are. They are trying to spark a war against Muslims and people on the right around the world are playing right into it, it only makes sense from the prospective of feeding the military industrial complex by being in perpetual conflict. Seeing as you are from the US you are probably unaware about the state of things around the world... Outside of the US people are talking about fighting the extremists parts of Islam. Some are, though the right in many countries barely make the rhetorical distinction let alone a real distinction. The German politician wanting more fences to control the refugees comes to mind, or the ones saying they look less like refugees and more like an army. Not to mention people around the world claiming ISIS represents "real" Islam. The right is playing right into ISIS's hands whether they like it or not. You are grossly conflating issues and paraphrasing out of context.
I have nothing to consider. I, like you, know nothing (John Snow) so i'm not making asumptions nor judgment, i just copy paste the information i have.
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http://www.liberation.fr/direct/attentats-de-paris_91/
Assaut à Saint-Denis : ce que l'on sait
• Un assaut policier a été lancé ce matin avant l'aube à Saint-Denis, en proche banlieue parisienne. L'opération est toujours en cours.
• Deux forcenés sont morts, dont une femme qui se serait fait exploser selon l'AFP, une première en France. Deux personnes ont été interpellées. Un suspect serait encore retranché.
• On ignore pour l'instant si Abdelhamid Abaaoud, organisateur présumé des attaques de vendredi et cible de l'assaut, se trouvait dans l'appartement.
• Le quartier est toujours bouclé et plusieurs dizaines de militaires et de policiers sont présents sur place.
• Deux à trois policiers ont également été blessés au cours de l'assaut.
• La mairie de Saint-Denis a recommandé aux habitants de la zone (entre la rue de la République et la rue Corbillon) de rester chez eux.
• Les métros, bus et tramways desservant Saint-Denis ont été interrompus. Les écoles et collèges du centre-ville n'ouvriront pas.
Assaullt on northern Paris. What do we know so far.
- A raid started this very dawn and is still in progress
- Two criminals died counting a woman that detonate herself. A first in France. Two people arrested and one suspect still hiding in the apartement. (well not hiding. Entreched ?)
- We do not knnow if the scumbag how organize everything in Paris is in there.
- All neighboorhood under control..
- 2 or 3 policeman are injured..
- City hall of "Saint-Denis" recommended to people to stay at home.
- Subways, bus cstystem and trams are closed.. Schools are cllosed..
Sorry for spelling and everything but i have to got to work and just got up
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On November 18 2015 14:03 Makro wrote:before sending soldiers overseas, the president should first sending soldiers into that area to do some cleaning i just hope no police man are severely wounded that's literally a war going on on french soil
According to the definition "a state of armed conflict between different countries or different groups within a country." That is somewhat true. The scale is so small that using the army would give no advantage. Now a days I assume France has units trained as peace keepers but any other units are a big risk. Using military inside the country risks protests and military isn't always trained to handle it without escalating too far.
I know Sweden more or less banned it for police actions due to problems in that style.
If you don't need the military to intervene in a police action, don't use it. Sets bad precedents on what do when you have problems.
Yes there are people dead but there aren't squads of militants moving around killing people and plundering. There are too few actives to need the military in an offensive capacity. I assume they are providing what intelligence information they can dig up or are asked to use surveillance for.
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source (french) :
the owner of the appartment that is stormed right now said that he didn't know they were terrorist and he rented out the appartment just to "do a favor"
of course no one trust him, and you can know understand how hard it is for the police and such when you have a whole population/neighborhood protecting these terrorist on your on soil
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On November 18 2015 16:28 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 07:36 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2015 07:28 FFW_Rude wrote:On November 18 2015 07:14 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2015 06:34 maartendq wrote:On November 18 2015 06:25 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On November 18 2015 06:08 maartendq wrote:And paranoia has successfully gripped Europe (conveniently helped along by the gutter press, as per usual). Now every bag that is left unattended for even 5 seconds will garner mass panic and bomb alarms. Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. We are doing exactly what they want us to do: willing to sacrifice bit by our (hard fought) freedoms for not even a smidgen of extra safety. We are basically allowing them to indirectly control how we live our lives. I'll repeat that: we are allowing vermin to control how we live our lives. didnt they find a fake ambulance rigged with a massive amount of explosives right next to the stadium? think before you post plz. Nobody wanted to bow down to the terrorists and cancel the game... Can't find that on quality newspaper websites. stop reading the gutter press plz. They will just post whatever gets them the most clicks, objectivity and reason be damned. While I agree that Bild isn't exactly a quality newspaper, you probably shouldn't talk about objectivity as you have zero clue about the validity of the threats as the police have refused to divulge who are their sources - and I doubt Volker Kluwe the head of the police would state they "had concrete indications" without at least a somewhat reliable source. On November 18 2015 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 18 2015 06:08 maartendq wrote:And paranoia has successfully gripped Europe (conveniently helped along by the gutter press, as per usual). Now every bag that is left unattended for even 5 seconds will garner mass panic and bomb alarms. Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. We are doing exactly what they want us to do: willing to sacrifice bit by our (hard fought) freedoms for not even a smidgen of extra safety. We are basically allowing them to indirectly control how we live our lives. I'll repeat that: we are allowing vermin to control how we live our lives. Seriously, it's like people are totally clueless about what their objectives are. They are trying to spark a war against Muslims and people on the right around the world are playing right into it, it only makes sense from the prospective of feeding the military industrial complex by being in perpetual conflict. Seeing as you are from the US you are probably unaware about the state of things around the world... Outside of the US people are talking about fighting the extremists parts of Islam. Selon le Ministre de l'Intérieur de Basse-Saxe, contrairement à ce qui a été annoncé par certains médias locaux, il n'y a eu aucune arrestation et aucun explosif n'a été découvert après l'annulation du match Allemagne-Pays-Bas qui devait se disputer ce soir à Hanovre. Minister of basse-saxe said that contrary to what was told by local media, there was no arrestation and nno explosives has beenn found after the cancellation of the Germany/Netherlland football match that should havee been at Hanovre tonight. http://www.liberation.fr/direct/ That doesn't change the fact that the threat might have been real and credible. You have to consider that the match was canceled by the police based on what they must have considered credible sources and not some random citizen crying "bomb" over an unattended bag... On November 18 2015 07:31 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 18 2015 07:14 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2015 06:34 maartendq wrote:On November 18 2015 06:25 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On November 18 2015 06:08 maartendq wrote:And paranoia has successfully gripped Europe (conveniently helped along by the gutter press, as per usual). Now every bag that is left unattended for even 5 seconds will garner mass panic and bomb alarms. Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. We are doing exactly what they want us to do: willing to sacrifice bit by our (hard fought) freedoms for not even a smidgen of extra safety. We are basically allowing them to indirectly control how we live our lives. I'll repeat that: we are allowing vermin to control how we live our lives. didnt they find a fake ambulance rigged with a massive amount of explosives right next to the stadium? think before you post plz. Nobody wanted to bow down to the terrorists and cancel the game... Can't find that on quality newspaper websites. stop reading the gutter press plz. They will just post whatever gets them the most clicks, objectivity and reason be damned. While I agree that Bild isn't exactly a quality newspaper, you probably shouldn't talk about objectivity as you have zero clue about the validity of the threats as the police have refused to divulge who are their sources - and I doubt Volker Kluwe the head of the police would state they "had concrete indications" without at least a somewhat reliable source. On November 18 2015 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 18 2015 06:08 maartendq wrote:And paranoia has successfully gripped Europe (conveniently helped along by the gutter press, as per usual). Now every bag that is left unattended for even 5 seconds will garner mass panic and bomb alarms. Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. We are doing exactly what they want us to do: willing to sacrifice bit by our (hard fought) freedoms for not even a smidgen of extra safety. We are basically allowing them to indirectly control how we live our lives. I'll repeat that: we are allowing vermin to control how we live our lives. Seriously, it's like people are totally clueless about what their objectives are. They are trying to spark a war against Muslims and people on the right around the world are playing right into it, it only makes sense from the prospective of feeding the military industrial complex by being in perpetual conflict. Seeing as you are from the US you are probably unaware about the state of things around the world... Outside of the US people are talking about fighting the extremists parts of Islam. Some are, though the right in many countries barely make the rhetorical distinction let alone a real distinction. The German politician wanting more fences to control the refugees comes to mind, or the ones saying they look less like refugees and more like an army. Not to mention people around the world claiming ISIS represents "real" Islam. The right is playing right into ISIS's hands whether they like it or not. You are grossly conflating issues and paraphrasing out of context. I have nothing to consider. I, like you, know nothing (John Snow) so i'm not making asumptions nor judgment, i just copy paste the information i have.
Then we are in agreement - I was calling for maartendq to refrain from jumping the gun and calling it simple paranoia. I have no idea how substantial the threat was (nor does anyone else here).
French police seems to have gotten quickly ahead of things - I don't recall any terrorist attack with as many arrests as this one has had. Solid work!
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On November 18 2015 18:14 Makro wrote:
the owner of the appartment that is stormed right now said that he didn't know they were terrorist and he rented out the appartment just to "do a favor"
of course no one trust him, and you can know understand how hard it is for the police and such when you have a whole population/neighborhood protecting these terrorist on your on soil
Think you are jumping the gun on that one. No reason so far to believe he was more than he states. Small crook (seems he broke in the flat, found it empty, then lent/rent it), but knowingly renting it for preparing a terrorist attack ? Bad for business.
Same goes for a "whole population" protecting terrorists. Hiding friends, yes of course. Knowingly hiding terrorists ? Unlikely.
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On November 18 2015 18:44 Oshuy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 18:14 Makro wrote:
the owner of the appartment that is stormed right now said that he didn't know they were terrorist and he rented out the appartment just to "do a favor"
of course no one trust him, and you can know understand how hard it is for the police and such when you have a whole population/neighborhood protecting these terrorist on your on soil
Think you are jumping the gun on that one. No reason so far to believe he was more than he states. Small crook (seems he broke in the flat, found it empty, then lent/rent it), but knowingly renting it for preparing a terrorist attack ? Bad for business. Same goes for a "whole population" protecting terrorists. Hiding friends, yes of course. Knowingly hiding terrorists ? Unlikely.
The fact that he assumes as much without knowing much is the problem, when you have just pretty much accused an entire community of aiding and abetting terrorism with little to no proof, then you have already pretty much lost the ideological ISIS is fighting.
From all indications these are most likely internet do it yourself terrorists from disavowed and disenfranchised backgrounds and ISIS be like "yes it was us" because taking credit for anything and everything allows them to push the narrative that Islam is under attack from the west when you get reactions like these.
I think they published a pamphlet outlining this strategy last year but Im too lazy to find it, even if I did its in arabic most people who have already made up their minds would just question the source anyway.
On November 18 2015 14:03 Makro wrote:before sending soldiers overseas, the president should first sending soldiers into that area to do some cleaning i just hope no police man are severely wounded that's literally a war going on on french soil
Bro you dont know war, this is not even close to war in any form. Its terrorism, its terrible and its heartbreaking but its not war in the conventional sense, not like people around the world experience.
if anything the way it makes you feel should drive empathy for those affected by real war. Instead you react exactly how the bad guys want.
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7 arrested in ST Denis. RAID is finished.
2 death (terrorists)
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On November 18 2015 19:03 Rebs wrote:
From all indications these are most likely internet do it yourself terrorists from disavowed and disenfranchised backgrounds and ISIS be like "yes it was us" because taking credit for anything and everything allows them to push the narrative that Islam is under attack from the west when you get reactions like these.
I would agree, but most of these people get a crash course in Syria/Yemen or whatever country is en vogue in terrorist circles at the time, which gives them some ties to the organizations claiming credit.
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On November 18 2015 20:54 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 19:03 Rebs wrote:
From all indications these are most likely internet do it yourself terrorists from disavowed and disenfranchised backgrounds and ISIS be like "yes it was us" because taking credit for anything and everything allows them to push the narrative that Islam is under attack from the west when you get reactions like these.
I would agree, but most of these people get a crash course in Syria/Yemen or whatever country is en vogue in terrorist circles at the time, which gives them some ties to the organizations claiming credit.
Yeah sure, there is no question of ties. But I think people over estimate things to the effect of some handlers sitting in Syria or Iraq are sitting around planning this stuff and then finding a bunch of idiots to do the dirty work. Its a way more loose system than that and while easier to combat socially, culturally and ideologically, incredibly hard to stop once you've lost that battle and they've decided to carry out an attack.
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On November 18 2015 20:28 FFW_Rude wrote:
7 arrested in ST Denis. RAID is finished.
2 death (terrorists)
5 slightly wounded on police's side (and 1 dog dead). Reports state 4 arrested outside the appartment (2 hiding in the rubble, man that rented the appartment and a friend of his). 3 remaining inside the appartment surrendered.
2 dead : 1 female terrorist (activated an explosive belt when dog went in), 1 male (exact death cause unknown, statement describes "projectiles" and "grenades").
No formal identifications yet.
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EPT
