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Keep the discussion ON TOPIC. This thread is for discussing the terror attacks in Paris. |
On November 14 2015 11:30 SagaZ wrote:
please don't mix those radical islam trash with islam/muslims/other religions.
they barely qualify as human anymore
Spot on, though I'd swap that "barely" with "don't". Furthermore these inhuman scum, more than anything want you to equate Islam with violence. I know its hard but anyone who starts to do so is doing their work for them. We can't let them win.
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On November 14 2015 11:47 m4ini wrote:
What he's doing is, again, making excuses or straight up dodging very real issues with Islam/Sharia, and flatout refusing that it promotes discrimination/belittling of women (btw not just them, but that's a different story).
What has a Turkish guy running a grocery store to do with the Shariah? I don't demand that you distance yourself from the Aryan brotherhood. It's ridiculous. It's not like every Muslim is like a sober alcoholic who's at the danger of succumbing to terrorism every minute. They're real, normal people, how are they supposed to 'distance themselves' any more from terrorism than by just doing what they're already doing which is living a normal life?
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On November 14 2015 11:47 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 11:44 Plansix wrote:On November 14 2015 11:43 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 11:42 Cricketer12 wrote:
This thread is proving the point I was making when I said it doesn't matter what moderates say/do. No matter what people will ONLY focus on the extremely small minority regardless of the fact 99.999% of us aren't doing this stuff. Dude, you're not "a moderate". You're an apologist. There's a huge difference. You are also proving his point. Do i? I asked him a specific question, that he didn't answer. I assume it's because he knows that it would look bad. I didn't prove his point, in fact i was one of the first here that said "don't jump to conclusions" when it comes to Islam. What he's doing is, again, making excuses or straight up dodging very real issues with Islam/Sharia, and flatout refusing that it promotes discrimination/belittling of women (btw not just them, but that's a different story). So just for my understanding - maybe i'm actually wrong. The Koran/Quran actually disagrees with Sharia, is that right?
What the sibling inheritance question? I don't know the answer to that question. I will ask my local religious leader about it though, and I can get back to you on it.
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On November 14 2015 11:45 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 11:43 Plansix wrote:On November 14 2015 11:41 oBlade wrote:On November 14 2015 11:34 Cricketer12 wrote:
Let me ask you this, and granted this is primarily directed at America, because that is the country of my birth and I actually know enough about it to bring this up but, how many female presidents/heads of state have we elected? 0 You can't say the same about Pakistan Turkey Bangladesh etc I don't want to misinterpret your point before I respond - are you saying that women in Bangladesh are better off than in the USA because the USA, a country of over 300 million people of whom women are the majority voters, hasn't elected a female president yet in less than 50 tries? I think he is saying that people are woefully uninformed about the state of women's rights in countries like Pakistan, Turkey and Banglades. But they like to claim that every Muslim country is terrible to its women, which is false. They are not perfect, but neither is the USA. I am not saying that Muslims are perfect. Nor am I denying that there exist countries with a Muslim majority that have a less than desirable standard of living for women. I am saying that Islam doesn't promote this. It goes against it.
I completely agree. Just like Christianity does not promote killing. People just assume that if the religion was gone, it would somehow remove shitty people from the human race. But they would just find another banner to rally behind, like nationalism or some political movement. There have been mostly secular countries that have 10s of killed millions of their own people, more than the deaths caused by the entire Syrian war. People just want something to blame.
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BBC ticker:
BREAKING 'All Paris attackers are dead'
The Associated Press is reporting the head of Paris police saying all attackers are believed to be dead.
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On November 14 2015 11:48 Amarok wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 11:30 SagaZ wrote:
please don't mix those radical islam trash with islam/muslims/other religions.
they barely qualify as human anymore Spot on, though I'd swap that "barely" with "don't". Furthermore these inhuman scum, more than anything want you to equate Islam with violence. I know its hard but anyone who starts to do so is doing their work for them. We can't let them win.
Exactly, these barbarians are trying to convince the world that the West and Islam are opposites and cannot work together, and that we should fight to the death...but then there are the rest of us living our daily lives just fine. They are selling you a story, and you are just eating it up.
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On November 14 2015 11:48 nimbim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 11:32 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 14 2015 11:27 Aocowns wrote:On November 14 2015 11:24 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 14 2015 11:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On November 14 2015 11:20 Plansix wrote:On November 14 2015 11:16 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 14 2015 11:14 oneofthem wrote:
moderate muslims, report suspicious radicals to authorities. okay, that's a good idea, except no one is declaring in the middle of a sermon "Death to nonbelievers" etc. The reason for this I think is that these people either aren't in the masjids or recognize that will report their dumbasses if they told us their fucked up opinions/plans I have never understood why people think that moderate Muslims could do this. These terrorists evade national security agencies, but moderate Mulsims can stop them because....magic. When a majority of the populace has disdain for believing in a tribalisic tradition of women being subservient and so on then it can have dramatic effects. Can someone give me actual examples of Islam belittling women? Can't offer more than some examples from the koran, but one cannot say that this might give a sub-optimal view of the value of women vs men corpus.quran.com I love how this is always the verse that people bring up because they never take the verses around it for context which pretty much say when it says "Strike" that if the force you apply is enough to change the color of her skin (aka her blood leaving that area) then you have struck her to hard. In other words YOU ARE NOT ALOUD BY THE QUR'AN TO HIT YOUR WIFE. Furthermore when I made that post the point I was trying to make was that either people would bring up this verse or say something about Saudi etc. Well I have explained this verse. As for actual examples, I am saying you have to take that as a case by case basis, because you can't say saudis dont let women drive, saudi is predominately muslim, therefore islam belittles women. Ok, now it's been a long time since I've read the Quran, but even I can remember the Surah about how you can't trust a woman over a man. Stuff about how they are stupid etc. Religion is fucking backwards shit from a time we have passed. If you can find comfort in believing, then good for you, but acting as if the prophecies aren't totally outdated and _always_ serve to benefit the prophet (just look at the last couple Surahs...) is straight-up silly.
There are plenty of people in the US that justify hitting their wives without the assistance of any holy book. It is just a question of what flavor of excuse they use.
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On November 14 2015 11:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 11:45 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 14 2015 11:43 Plansix wrote:On November 14 2015 11:41 oBlade wrote:On November 14 2015 11:34 Cricketer12 wrote:
Let me ask you this, and granted this is primarily directed at America, because that is the country of my birth and I actually know enough about it to bring this up but, how many female presidents/heads of state have we elected? 0 You can't say the same about Pakistan Turkey Bangladesh etc I don't want to misinterpret your point before I respond - are you saying that women in Bangladesh are better off than in the USA because the USA, a country of over 300 million people of whom women are the majority voters, hasn't elected a female president yet in less than 50 tries? I think he is saying that people are woefully uninformed about the state of women's rights in countries like Pakistan, Turkey and Banglades. But they like to claim that every Muslim country is terrible to its women, which is false. They are not perfect, but neither is the USA. I am not saying that Muslims are perfect. Nor am I denying that there exist countries with a Muslim majority that have a less than desirable standard of living for women. I am saying that Islam doesn't promote this. It goes against it. I completely agree. Just like Christianity does not promote killing. People just assume that if the religion was gone, it would somehow remove shitty people from the human race. But they would just find another banner to rally behind, like nationalism or some political movement. There have been mostly secular countries that have 10s of killed millions of their own people, more than the deaths caused by the entire Syrian war. People just want something to blame.
Let's not assume that religion cannot build the bridges that allow people to be manipulated or to be extra sensitive to certain subjects or perceived wrongdoings. There is no one thing that you can remove that would remove all murder and violence. But there are certain things which promote violence.
And the fact of the matter is, political correctness has gotten to the point where you can't even discuss these things without being accused of racism, whereas any other similar sociological issues would be wide open for debate.
There are plenty of people in the US that justify hitting their wives without the assistance of any holy book. It is just a question of what flavor of excuse they use.
Is that really an argument though? "Because a social problem is not exclusive to one category of people, we should ignore the correlation and do nothing about the problems that are exceptionally bad with this category of people". You don't believe that.
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On November 14 2015 11:32 Cricketer12 wrote:
YOU ARE NOT ALOUD BY THE QUR'AN TO HIT YOUR WIFE.
False
A Koran's verse say" if you have a doubt about the faithfulness of you wife, put her in other badroom and hit her"
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On November 14 2015 11:49 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 11:47 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 11:44 Plansix wrote:On November 14 2015 11:43 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 11:42 Cricketer12 wrote:
This thread is proving the point I was making when I said it doesn't matter what moderates say/do. No matter what people will ONLY focus on the extremely small minority regardless of the fact 99.999% of us aren't doing this stuff. Dude, you're not "a moderate". You're an apologist. There's a huge difference. You are also proving his point. Do i? I asked him a specific question, that he didn't answer. I assume it's because he knows that it would look bad. I didn't prove his point, in fact i was one of the first here that said "don't jump to conclusions" when it comes to Islam. What he's doing is, again, making excuses or straight up dodging very real issues with Islam/Sharia, and flatout refusing that it promotes discrimination/belittling of women (btw not just them, but that's a different story). I am saying that Islam doesn't promote this. It goes against it. So just for my understanding - maybe i'm actually wrong. The Koran/Quran actually disagrees with Sharia, is that right? What the sibling inheritance question? I don't know the answer to that question. I will ask my local religious leader about it though, and I can get back to you on it.
Well, we can have it quicker though.
The sister will inherit usually half of what the brother will get. Why?
And what does "what your right hand possess" mean?
edit: to be clear. I'm actually careful when it comes to accusations or hostility towards Islam, because a couple of my friends in germany actually are religious - but even they would never go so far as to tell anyone that the Sharia (and partially the quran) is not basically incredibly sexist, to put it softly.
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On November 14 2015 11:52 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 11:48 nimbim wrote:On November 14 2015 11:32 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 14 2015 11:27 Aocowns wrote:On November 14 2015 11:24 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 14 2015 11:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On November 14 2015 11:20 Plansix wrote:On November 14 2015 11:16 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 14 2015 11:14 oneofthem wrote:
moderate muslims, report suspicious radicals to authorities. okay, that's a good idea, except no one is declaring in the middle of a sermon "Death to nonbelievers" etc. The reason for this I think is that these people either aren't in the masjids or recognize that will report their dumbasses if they told us their fucked up opinions/plans I have never understood why people think that moderate Muslims could do this. These terrorists evade national security agencies, but moderate Mulsims can stop them because....magic. When a majority of the populace has disdain for believing in a tribalisic tradition of women being subservient and so on then it can have dramatic effects. Can someone give me actual examples of Islam belittling women? Can't offer more than some examples from the koran, but one cannot say that this might give a sub-optimal view of the value of women vs men corpus.quran.com I love how this is always the verse that people bring up because they never take the verses around it for context which pretty much say when it says "Strike" that if the force you apply is enough to change the color of her skin (aka her blood leaving that area) then you have struck her to hard. In other words YOU ARE NOT ALOUD BY THE QUR'AN TO HIT YOUR WIFE. Furthermore when I made that post the point I was trying to make was that either people would bring up this verse or say something about Saudi etc. Well I have explained this verse. As for actual examples, I am saying you have to take that as a case by case basis, because you can't say saudis dont let women drive, saudi is predominately muslim, therefore islam belittles women. Ok, now it's been a long time since I've read the Quran, but even I can remember the Surah about how you can't trust a woman over a man. Stuff about how they are stupid etc. Religion is fucking backwards shit from a time we have passed. If you can find comfort in believing, then good for you, but acting as if the prophecies aren't totally outdated and _always_ serve to benefit the prophet (just look at the last couple Surahs...) is straight-up silly. There are plenty of people in the US that justify hitting their wives without the assistance of any holy book. It is just a question of what flavor of excuse they use.
Taking away one of their excuses is always a good thing, no? There is not always another problem on the horizon. That's short term thinking.
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On November 14 2015 11:52 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 11:48 nimbim wrote:On November 14 2015 11:32 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 14 2015 11:27 Aocowns wrote:On November 14 2015 11:24 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 14 2015 11:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On November 14 2015 11:20 Plansix wrote:On November 14 2015 11:16 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 14 2015 11:14 oneofthem wrote:
moderate muslims, report suspicious radicals to authorities. okay, that's a good idea, except no one is declaring in the middle of a sermon "Death to nonbelievers" etc. The reason for this I think is that these people either aren't in the masjids or recognize that will report their dumbasses if they told us their fucked up opinions/plans I have never understood why people think that moderate Muslims could do this. These terrorists evade national security agencies, but moderate Mulsims can stop them because....magic. When a majority of the populace has disdain for believing in a tribalisic tradition of women being subservient and so on then it can have dramatic effects. Can someone give me actual examples of Islam belittling women? Can't offer more than some examples from the koran, but one cannot say that this might give a sub-optimal view of the value of women vs men corpus.quran.com I love how this is always the verse that people bring up because they never take the verses around it for context which pretty much say when it says "Strike" that if the force you apply is enough to change the color of her skin (aka her blood leaving that area) then you have struck her to hard. In other words YOU ARE NOT ALOUD BY THE QUR'AN TO HIT YOUR WIFE. Furthermore when I made that post the point I was trying to make was that either people would bring up this verse or say something about Saudi etc. Well I have explained this verse. As for actual examples, I am saying you have to take that as a case by case basis, because you can't say saudis dont let women drive, saudi is predominately muslim, therefore islam belittles women. Ok, now it's been a long time since I've read the Quran, but even I can remember the Surah about how you can't trust a woman over a man. Stuff about how they are stupid etc. Religion is fucking backwards shit from a time we have passed. If you can find comfort in believing, then good for you, but acting as if the prophecies aren't totally outdated and _always_ serve to benefit the prophet (just look at the last couple Surahs...) is straight-up silly. There are plenty of people in the US that justify hitting their wives without the assistance of any holy book. It is just a question of what flavor of excuse they use.
That's not fair at all. quick google search for statistics came up with this
en.wikipedia.org
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On November 14 2015 11:53 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 11:49 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 14 2015 11:47 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 11:44 Plansix wrote:On November 14 2015 11:43 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 11:42 Cricketer12 wrote:
This thread is proving the point I was making when I said it doesn't matter what moderates say/do. No matter what people will ONLY focus on the extremely small minority regardless of the fact 99.999% of us aren't doing this stuff. Dude, you're not "a moderate". You're an apologist. There's a huge difference. You are also proving his point. Do i? I asked him a specific question, that he didn't answer. I assume it's because he knows that it would look bad. I didn't prove his point, in fact i was one of the first here that said "don't jump to conclusions" when it comes to Islam. What he's doing is, again, making excuses or straight up dodging very real issues with Islam/Sharia, and flatout refusing that it promotes discrimination/belittling of women (btw not just them, but that's a different story). I am saying that Islam doesn't promote this. It goes against it. So just for my understanding - maybe i'm actually wrong. The Koran/Quran actually disagrees with Sharia, is that right? What the sibling inheritance question? I don't know the answer to that question. I will ask my local religious leader about it though, and I can get back to you on it. Well, we can have it quicker though. The sister will inherit usually half of what the brother will get. Why? And what does "what your right hand possess" mean?
I honestly don't know, I haven't had the chance to study fiqh recently with university and all...
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Terrorism based on religious ideals is a symptom of poverty, hopelessness and war in the middle east region. The answer is to address this. It breaks my heart that people would kill in the name of god (coming from an atheist). No doubt that given the prevalence of terrorist activity coming from islamic fanatics that it is important for regular muslims to try and create a culture change and be proactive within their community.
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It's heartbreaking to hear about Paris  Today was a France Appreciation day at my school... I (and the rest of the faculty) even wore blue, white, and red today. Had no idea Paris was going to get attacked today too x.x
My heart and thoughts go out to the families and friends whose lives changed tonight <3
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On November 14 2015 11:53 damoonwolf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 11:32 Cricketer12 wrote:
YOU ARE NOT ALOUD BY THE QUR'AN TO HIT YOUR WIFE. False A Koran's verse say" if you have a doubt about the faithfulness of you wife, put her in other badroom and hit her"
read the whole post again because clearly you missed something
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women aren't allowed to lose their virginity before they get married off (by arrangement by their fathers for money (or something)
instead they have anal sex (until they get sold?)
source: "normal" jordan friend
not that i'm dissing anal sex
just sayin they all have to take it in the butt
and arranged marriage is a thing afaik
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On November 14 2015 11:56 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 11:53 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 11:49 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 14 2015 11:47 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 11:44 Plansix wrote:On November 14 2015 11:43 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 11:42 Cricketer12 wrote:
This thread is proving the point I was making when I said it doesn't matter what moderates say/do. No matter what people will ONLY focus on the extremely small minority regardless of the fact 99.999% of us aren't doing this stuff. Dude, you're not "a moderate". You're an apologist. There's a huge difference. You are also proving his point. Do i? I asked him a specific question, that he didn't answer. I assume it's because he knows that it would look bad. I didn't prove his point, in fact i was one of the first here that said "don't jump to conclusions" when it comes to Islam. What he's doing is, again, making excuses or straight up dodging very real issues with Islam/Sharia, and flatout refusing that it promotes discrimination/belittling of women (btw not just them, but that's a different story). I am saying that Islam doesn't promote this. It goes against it. So just for my understanding - maybe i'm actually wrong. The Koran/Quran actually disagrees with Sharia, is that right? What the sibling inheritance question? I don't know the answer to that question. I will ask my local religious leader about it though, and I can get back to you on it. Well, we can have it quicker though. The sister will inherit usually half of what the brother will get. Why? And what does "what your right hand possess" mean? I honestly don't know, I haven't had the chance to study fiqh recently with university and all...
Okay, ask your religious leader then, and tell us what usually gets ruled.
I edited earlier, i'm not attacking Islam per se. I'm attacking what it promotes. You might not act on it, others do. Again, as i said, that goes for other religions as well. As long as there's a book and/or rules that can be interpreted (without much fantasy i might add) in certain ways, .. fuck religion.
To make it clearer: YOU say "well nothing like that in the quran". Others say (also believers, not talking about christians) "it does". Even "experts" do. There's also christians who are fine with gays marrying, that doesn't mean that the bible doesn't explicitly "forbids" it.
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