YouTube announced something about how they are going to launch a streaming service. There isn't much detail on their teaser site yet but Polygon and GameSpot have articles up detailing some plans, including rewinding and a "new low latency option". Personally I'm mostly just hoping for the HTML5 player that has been in the rumor mills.
As a kid, I spent hours on the living room couch playing video games with friends, taking turns trying to beat Ganon in "Ocarina of Time" and trading Pokémon until I had all 151. Soon controller passing and Game Boy link cables gave way to network multiplayer and PC LAN parties. Eventually, my living room became a virtual one, with a network of gamers sharing experiences and discoveries.
Today, the gaming world is much more diverse than the one I grew up with, and the community has created new formats that have made gaming more collaborative and interactive. On YouTube, gaming has spawned entirely new genres of videos, from let’s plays, walkthroughs, and speedruns to cooking and music videos. Now, it’s our turn to return the favor with something built just for gamers. This summer, we'll launch YouTube Gaming, a brand new app and website to keep you connected to the games, players, and culture that matter to you, with videos, live streams, and the biggest community of gamers on the web—all in one place.
If this has HTML5, YTG has imminently won it for me. With how unstable Flash has been compared to HTML5, I would choose a HTML5 service all days of the week
Not to mentioned that I personally feel that Twitch hasn't improved that much in quite a while...
On June 13 2015 03:40 WindWolf wrote: If this has HTML5, YTG has imminently won it for me. With how unstable Flash has been compared to HTML5, I would choose a HTML5 service all days of the week
Not to mentioned that I personally feel that Twitch hasn't improved that much in quite a while...
They will now. Google nipping at their heels just put the fire back into them and Amazon. This should be fun to watch.
Honestly, to me, YT will just crush Twitch. Twitch works very poorly when you got a low connection, YT to the contrary just works well...
The only important data to me will be the ads remuneration figure on YT. If it's bigger on YT, then it's just instant death to Twitch. The other way around, Twitch might still have a chance.
On June 13 2015 03:40 WindWolf wrote: If this has HTML5, YTG has imminently won it for me. With how unstable Flash has been compared to HTML5, I would choose a HTML5 service all days of the week
Not to mentioned that I personally feel that Twitch hasn't improved that much in quite a while...
They will now. Google nipping at their heels just put the fire back into them and Amazon. This should be fun to watch.
Yes, Twitch has been in desperate need of competition since quite some time now.
On June 13 2015 03:40 WindWolf wrote: If this has HTML5, YTG has imminently won it for me. With how unstable Flash has been compared to HTML5, I would choose a HTML5 service all days of the week
Not to mentioned that I personally feel that Twitch hasn't improved that much in quite a while...
HTML5 won't help if there's not anything worthwhile to watch (except tournaments). I do agree though.
I personally don't expect anything major out of this just yet.
On June 13 2015 03:43 IntoTheheart wrote: Will they showcase this off at E3?
Travis Gafford was live tweeting stuff during a demonstration so I guess some people have seen it, no idea if they're just teasing it now or doing a public thing yet.
On June 13 2015 03:45 SkrollK wrote: Here they come.
Death of Twitch inc.
Honestly, to me, YT will just crush Twitch. Twitch works very poorly when you got a low connection, YT to the contrary just works well...
The only important data to me will be the ads remuneration figure on YT. If it's bigger on YT, then it's just instant death to Twitch. The other way around, Twitch might still have a chance.
Twitch is owned by Amazon, so that won't happen. This is two of the largest tech companies in the US going toe to toe in the same market. Neither will wipe the other one out.
On June 13 2015 03:45 Musicus wrote: Is this even a thing in Germany?
probably not, there is no yt streaming in germany.
unless they can sort out their problems in that regard they are fighting a losing battle. the german market alone is big enough to make the switch from twitch to yt gaming impossible, and germany isn't even the only country without youtube streaming i've heard.
This will have an HTML5 player, a limit of 1080p60fps @9Mbps, transcodes available for everyone.
The only issues so far I've seen are that general browsing of streams and usability is lower than Twitch. But frankly, that's the easy part. YouTube clearly has the proper distribution network and the HTML5 player makes...such a huge goddamn difference.
edit: Should also add that the new stuff seems to have a 15 sec or so delay, as opposed to the current YouTube streaming delay.
On June 13 2015 03:43 IntoTheheart wrote: Will they showcase this off at E3?
Likely. They are having a more private-ish press event on it right now.
On June 13 2015 03:40 WindWolf wrote: If this has HTML5, YTG has imminently won it for me. With how unstable Flash has been compared to HTML5, I would choose a HTML5 service all days of the week
Not to mentioned that I personally feel that Twitch hasn't improved that much in quite a while...
HTML5 won't help if there's not anything worthwhile to watch (except tournaments). I do agree though.
I personally don't expect anything major out of this just yet.
There will certainly be some growing pains. But with how little improvement there has been to Twitch as of late some competition will be better than nothing at all
On June 13 2015 03:49 KrazyTrumpet wrote: This will have an HTML5 player, a limit of 1080p60fps @9Mbps, transcodes available for everyone.
The only issues so far I've seen are that general browsing of streams and usability is lower than Twitch. But frankly, that's the easy part. YouTube clearly has the proper distribution network and the HTML5 player makes...such a huge goddamn difference.
I'm just curious about copyright issues, always the problem with youtube in germany
On June 13 2015 03:49 KrazyTrumpet wrote: This will have an HTML5 player, a limit of 1080p60fps @9Mbps, transcodes available for everyone.
The only issues so far I've seen are that general browsing of streams and usability is lower than Twitch. But frankly, that's the easy part. YouTube clearly has the proper distribution network and the HTML5 player makes...such a huge goddamn difference.
I'm just curious about copyright issues, always the problem with youtube in germany
They will have to handle that on a region by region basis. They can't fix everything world wide. Though Twitch doesn't seem to have any problem for you folks, right?
On June 13 2015 03:49 KrazyTrumpet wrote: This will have an HTML5 player, a limit of 1080p60fps @9Mbps, transcodes available for everyone.
The only issues so far I've seen are that general browsing of streams and usability is lower than Twitch. But frankly, that's the easy part. YouTube clearly has the proper distribution network and the HTML5 player makes...such a huge goddamn difference.
I'm just curious about copyright issues, always the problem with youtube in germany
On June 13 2015 03:49 KrazyTrumpet wrote: This will have an HTML5 player, a limit of 1080p60fps @9Mbps, transcodes available for everyone.
The only issues so far I've seen are that general browsing of streams and usability is lower than Twitch. But frankly, that's the easy part. YouTube clearly has the proper distribution network and the HTML5 player makes...such a huge goddamn difference.
I'm just curious about copyright issues, always the problem with youtube in germany
They will have to handle that on a region by region basis. They can't fix everything world wide. Though Twitch doesn't seem to have any problem for you folks, right?
Can't wait for "This stream isn't available in your country" *Insert emote*
On June 13 2015 03:45 Musicus wrote: Is this even a thing in Germany?
It's blocked here (by Google itself) as they would have to get licenses for every channel. There's an interesting article about that in one of the most recent issues of c't. Basically every broadcaster who has a linear internet/tv/radio submission and a fixed schedule has to get one of those licenses. The first point is pretty clear, the second one is very arguable, but apparently YouTube/Google wants to be better safe than sorry Funny thing is that you can broadcast on YT from Germany, just not watch it^^
Just from the LCS alone, Youtube has always been the absolutely superior platform to watch it on. I don't see myself spending near as much time on Twitch if some of the big SC2, LoL, DotA, and CS:GO organizations swap over.
On June 13 2015 03:49 KrazyTrumpet wrote: This will have an HTML5 player, a limit of 1080p60fps @9Mbps, transcodes available for everyone.
The only issues so far I've seen are that general browsing of streams and usability is lower than Twitch. But frankly, that's the easy part. YouTube clearly has the proper distribution network and the HTML5 player makes...such a huge goddamn difference.
I'm just curious about copyright issues, always the problem with youtube in germany
They will have to handle that on a region by region basis. They can't fix everything world wide. Though Twitch doesn't seem to have any problem for you folks, right?
Twitch has the problem with VoDs now, they are muted when copyrighted music was playing, but I think this is the same for every country. I think they just can't monitor livestreams with their software yet OR authorities haven't recognized twitch as a major copyright issue yet
On June 13 2015 03:49 KrazyTrumpet wrote: This will have an HTML5 player, a limit of 1080p60fps @9Mbps, transcodes available for everyone.
The only issues so far I've seen are that general browsing of streams and usability is lower than Twitch. But frankly, that's the easy part. YouTube clearly has the proper distribution network and the HTML5 player makes...such a huge goddamn difference.
I'm just curious about copyright issues, always the problem with youtube in germany
They will have to handle that on a region by region basis. They can't fix everything world wide. Though Twitch doesn't seem to have any problem for you folks, right?
Can't wait for "This stream isn't available in your country" *Insert emote*
I am sure Youtube would stream to you if they could. Its that whole breaking the law thing that might be holding them back.
That's actually a great point. YouTube is notoriously bad at handling IP and copyright disputes, particularly in gaming. How this affects that development promises to be interesting.
On June 13 2015 03:49 KrazyTrumpet wrote: This will have an HTML5 player, a limit of 1080p60fps @9Mbps, transcodes available for everyone.
The only issues so far I've seen are that general browsing of streams and usability is lower than Twitch. But frankly, that's the easy part. YouTube clearly has the proper distribution network and the HTML5 player makes...such a huge goddamn difference.
I'm just curious about copyright issues, always the problem with youtube in germany
They will have to handle that on a region by region basis. They can't fix everything world wide. Though Twitch doesn't seem to have any problem for you folks, right?
Twitch has the problem with VoDs now, they are muted when copyrighted music was playing, but I think this is the same for every country. I think they just can't monitor livestreams with their software yet OR authorities haven't recognized twitch as a major copyright issue yet
I think that music labels might not care about people live streaming a song, since its only once and the streamer is a fan of the music. Its when people start recording it they get pissy.
On June 13 2015 03:40 WindWolf wrote: If this has HTML5, YTG has imminently won it for me. With how unstable Flash has been compared to HTML5, I would choose a HTML5 service all days of the week
Not to mentioned that I personally feel that Twitch hasn't improved that much in quite a while...
HTML5 won't help if there's not anything worthwhile to watch (except tournaments). I do agree though.
I personally don't expect anything major out of this just yet.
There will certainly be some growing pains. But with how little improvement there has been to Twitch as of late some competition will be better than nothing at all
Of course and as i said, tournament wise its amazing as I am sure many organizers will put their streams there as well. But general gaming content wise, i don't see any medium or big Twitch streamer changing over. What i read from twitter about the possible "incentives" in general to stream there, it's most likely not worth it.
On June 13 2015 03:45 SkrollK wrote: Here they come.
Death of Twitch inc.
Honestly, to me, YT will just crush Twitch. Twitch works very poorly when you got a low connection, YT to the contrary just works well...
The only important data to me will be the ads remuneration figure on YT. If it's bigger on YT, then it's just instant death to Twitch. The other way around, Twitch might still have a chance.
Twitch is owned by Amazon, so that won't happen. This is two of the largest tech companies in the US going toe to toe in the same market. Neither will wipe the other one out.
Does Twitch uses Amazons servers ? I don't think so. Does YT Gaming uses YT servers ? I do think so.
To me, Twitch is to laggy to watch when i'm not at home. For exemple, right where I am, I can't watch LCS EU on ogmaing in more than 240p. Else I lag. On YT, I'm just 720p while surfing...
So, I go on YT. If enought of the big streams steps forward and go YT as well, then for me Twitch is basically over.
(I'm not saying that my case is the case of everyone there. Just stating for me )
On June 13 2015 03:40 WindWolf wrote: If this has HTML5, YTG has imminently won it for me. With how unstable Flash has been compared to HTML5, I would choose a HTML5 service all days of the week
Not to mentioned that I personally feel that Twitch hasn't improved that much in quite a while...
HTML5 won't help if there's not anything worthwhile to watch (except tournaments). I do agree though.
I personally don't expect anything major out of this just yet.
There will certainly be some growing pains. But with how little improvement there has been to Twitch as of late some competition will be better than nothing at all
Of course and as i said, tournament wise its amazing as I am sure many organizers will put their streams there as well. But as a general gaming content wise, i don't see any medium or big Twitch streamer changing over. What i read from twitter about the possible "incentives" in general to stream there, it's not worth it.
Unless Google acts like a TV network and offers big streamers money to switch. Or bit streamers start offering. Thats now network TV works, the stations bid on the content and put it up. Netfilx out bid all the networks for House of Cards.
On June 13 2015 03:45 SkrollK wrote: Here they come.
Death of Twitch inc.
Honestly, to me, YT will just crush Twitch. Twitch works very poorly when you got a low connection, YT to the contrary just works well...
The only important data to me will be the ads remuneration figure on YT. If it's bigger on YT, then it's just instant death to Twitch. The other way around, Twitch might still have a chance.
Twitch is owned by Amazon, so that won't happen. This is two of the largest tech companies in the US going toe to toe in the same market. Neither will wipe the other one out.
Does Twitch uses Amazons servers ? I don't think so. Does YT Gaming uses YT servers ? I do think so.
To me, Twitch is to laggy to watch when i'm not at home. For exemple, right where I am, I can't watch LCS EU on ogmaing in more than 240p. Else I lag. On YT, I'm just 720p while surfing...
So, I go on YT. If enought of the big streams steps forward and go YT as well, then for me Twitch is basically over.
(I'm not saying that my case is the case of everyone there. Just stating for me )
Yes, if in that totally simplistic scenario where Twitch does literally nothing to improve and Youtube is a service without any flaws or issue of its own, twitch will die.
To be honest, the biggest reason I'm excited about this is that Twitch is finally going to have some real competition that won't just die out when its Kickstarter funding dries up or whatever.
This is GREAT for eSports. The rumor has it that CPMs on twitch have been declining steadily. Advertising is what funds a large portion of the TV market, and I hope youtube can do the same for online streaming.
On June 13 2015 03:40 WindWolf wrote: If this has HTML5, YTG has imminently won it for me. With how unstable Flash has been compared to HTML5, I would choose a HTML5 service all days of the week
Not to mentioned that I personally feel that Twitch hasn't improved that much in quite a while...
HTML5 won't help if there's not anything worthwhile to watch (except tournaments). I do agree though.
I personally don't expect anything major out of this just yet.
There will certainly be some growing pains. But with how little improvement there has been to Twitch as of late some competition will be better than nothing at all
Of course and as i said, tournament wise its amazing as I am sure many organizers will put their streams there as well. But as a general gaming content wise, i don't see any medium or big Twitch streamer changing over. What i read from twitter about the possible "incentives" in general to stream there, it's not worth it.
Unless Google acts like a TV network and offers big streamers money to switch. Or bit streamers start offering. Thats now network TV works, the stations bid on the content and put it up. Netfilx out bid all the networks for House of Cards.
YouTube can pay streamers way better CPMs for a certain amount of time, but if the viewers don't come over, CPMs mean nothing. Will be certainly interesting to see.
"YouTube Gaming will be available this summer, starting in the U.S. and U.K." I'm not sure how I feel about this, potentially slow launches in different countries could be very bad for the platform as the streaming / esports community relies on being global
On June 13 2015 03:40 WindWolf wrote: If this has HTML5, YTG has imminently won it for me. With how unstable Flash has been compared to HTML5, I would choose a HTML5 service all days of the week
Not to mentioned that I personally feel that Twitch hasn't improved that much in quite a while...
HTML5 won't help if there's not anything worthwhile to watch (except tournaments). I do agree though.
I personally don't expect anything major out of this just yet.
There will certainly be some growing pains. But with how little improvement there has been to Twitch as of late some competition will be better than nothing at all
Of course and as i said, tournament wise its amazing as I am sure many organizers will put their streams there as well. But as a general gaming content wise, i don't see any medium or big Twitch streamer changing over. What i read from twitter about the possible "incentives" in general to stream there, it's not worth it.
Unless Google acts like a TV network and offers big streamers money to switch. Or bit streamers start offering. Thats now network TV works, the stations bid on the content and put it up. Netfilx out bid all the networks for House of Cards.
Indeed and thats obvious, it might happen. Right now they are just offering promotion, but that's NOTHING for medium or big Twitch streamers.
Not to mention how some major countries in Europe (Germany for example) can't even properly watch Youtube streams/videos. That ain't helping.
On June 13 2015 03:40 WindWolf wrote: If this has HTML5, YTG has imminently won it for me. With how unstable Flash has been compared to HTML5, I would choose a HTML5 service all days of the week
Not to mentioned that I personally feel that Twitch hasn't improved that much in quite a while...
HTML5 won't help if there's not anything worthwhile to watch (except tournaments). I do agree though.
I personally don't expect anything major out of this just yet.
There will certainly be some growing pains. But with how little improvement there has been to Twitch as of late some competition will be better than nothing at all
Of course and as i said, tournament wise its amazing as I am sure many organizers will put their streams there as well. But as a general gaming content wise, i don't see any medium or big Twitch streamer changing over. What i read from twitter about the possible "incentives" in general to stream there, it's not worth it.
Unless Google acts like a TV network and offers big streamers money to switch. Or bit streamers start offering. Thats now network TV works, the stations bid on the content and put it up. Netfilx out bid all the networks for House of Cards.
YouTube can pay streamers way better CPMs for a certain amount of time, but if the viewers don't come over, CPMs mean nothing. Will be certainly interesting to see.
"YouTube Gaming will be available this summer, starting in the U.S. and U.K." I'm not sure how I feel about this, potentially slow launches in different countries could be very bad for the platform as the streaming / esports community relies on being global
That's true. But on the other hand a slowly but steady launch prevents the launch from being overloaded overnight
On June 13 2015 03:40 WindWolf wrote: If this has HTML5, YTG has imminently won it for me. With how unstable Flash has been compared to HTML5, I would choose a HTML5 service all days of the week
Not to mentioned that I personally feel that Twitch hasn't improved that much in quite a while...
HTML5 won't help if there's not anything worthwhile to watch (except tournaments). I do agree though.
I personally don't expect anything major out of this just yet.
There will certainly be some growing pains. But with how little improvement there has been to Twitch as of late some competition will be better than nothing at all
Of course and as i said, tournament wise its amazing as I am sure many organizers will put their streams there as well. But as a general gaming content wise, i don't see any medium or big Twitch streamer changing over. What i read from twitter about the possible "incentives" in general to stream there, it's not worth it.
Unless Google acts like a TV network and offers big streamers money to switch. Or bit streamers start offering. Thats now network TV works, the stations bid on the content and put it up. Netfilx out bid all the networks for House of Cards.
YouTube can pay streamers way better CPMs for a certain amount of time, but if the viewers don't come over, CPMs mean nothing. Will be certainly interesting to see.
"YouTube Gaming will be available this summer, starting in the U.S. and U.K." I'm not sure how I feel about this, potentially slow launches in different countries could be very bad for the platform as the streaming / esports community relies on being global
That's true. But on the other hand a slowly but steady launch prevents the launch from being overloaded overnight
When it comes to this market, i doubt it would happen anyway.
On June 13 2015 03:45 Musicus wrote: Is this even a thing in Germany?
It's blocked here (by Google itself) as they would have to get licenses for every channel. There's an interesting article about that in one of the most recent issues of c't. Basically every broadcaster who has a linear internet/tv/radio submission and a fixed schedule has to get one of those licenses. The first point is pretty clear, the second one is very arguable, but apparently YouTube/Google wants to be better safe than sorry Funny thing is that you can broadcast on YT from Germany, just not watch it^^
To be honest, the biggest reason I'm excited about this is that Twitch is finally going to have some real competition that won't just die out when its Kickstarter funding dries up or whatever.
I mean, its owned by Amazon, I don't think they are going to let it die off. I agree they need to put up some more fight and improve their service, including CPM.
To be honest, the biggest reason I'm excited about this is that Twitch is finally going to have some real competition that won't just die out when its Kickstarter funding dries up or whatever.
Nice I thought that was just a rumor, that's a feature I'm looking forward to. SORRY TWITCH YOUR SHIT TAKES TOO MUCH RAM.
On June 13 2015 03:45 SkrollK wrote: Here they come.
Death of Twitch inc.
Honestly, to me, YT will just crush Twitch. Twitch works very poorly when you got a low connection, YT to the contrary just works well...
The only important data to me will be the ads remuneration figure on YT. If it's bigger on YT, then it's just instant death to Twitch. The other way around, Twitch might still have a chance.
Twitch is owned by Amazon, so that won't happen. This is two of the largest tech companies in the US going toe to toe in the same market. Neither will wipe the other one out.
Does Twitch uses Amazons servers ? I don't think so. Does YT Gaming uses YT servers ? I do think so.
To me, Twitch is to laggy to watch when i'm not at home. For exemple, right where I am, I can't watch LCS EU on ogmaing in more than 240p. Else I lag. On YT, I'm just 720p while surfing...
So, I go on YT. If enought of the big streams steps forward and go YT as well, then for me Twitch is basically over.
(I'm not saying that my case is the case of everyone there. Just stating for me )
Yes, if in that totally simplistic scenario where Twitch does literally nothing to improve and Youtube is a service without any flaws or issue of its own, twitch will die.
But that is extremely unlikely.
Yep, agreed. But in that case, it'll just be awesome for us, customers.
(And, BTW, I don't think that Twitch can have access to the same server space than YT. Even if they put lots of money in it. But I'm really not an IT man so...)
To be honest, the biggest reason I'm excited about this is that Twitch is finally going to have some real competition that won't just die out when its Kickstarter funding dries up or whatever.
Nice I thought that was just a rumor, that's a feature I'm looking forward to. SORRY TWITCH YOUR SHIT TAKES TOO MUCH RAM.
RAM isn't even the problem. It's the CPU usage, and shitty hardware acceleration that sometimes makes things perform even WORSE.
On June 13 2015 03:44 johnhopfensperger wrote: They should use HEVC. Then streamers could all go 1080p 60fps.
Sure, but do you know how hard it is to CPU-encode h265 efficiently?
Who has the spare CPU power to stream at 1080p60 right now? Take that and increase load by like 5-15x. I don't have any benchmarks but it's a pretty drastic change in CPU requirements
h265 support is extremely important, but it would be used only by a niche of people if it was added today.
On June 13 2015 03:44 johnhopfensperger wrote: They should use HEVC. Then streamers could all go 1080p 60fps.
Sure, but do you know how hard it is to CPU-encode h265 efficiently?
Who has the spare CPU power to stream at 1080p60 right now? Take that and increase load by like 5-15x. I don't have any benchmarks but it's a pretty drastic change in CPU requirements
h265 support is extremely important, but it would be used only by a niche of people if it was added today.
Decoding is pretty CPU heavy right now too. HEVC is still a couple years away from widespread use tbh
On June 13 2015 03:44 johnhopfensperger wrote: They should use HEVC. Then streamers could all go 1080p 60fps.
Sure, but do you know how hard it is to CPU-encode h265 efficiently?
Who has the spare CPU power to stream at 1080p60 right now? Take that and increase load by like 5-15x. I don't have any benchmarks but it's a pretty drastic change in CPU requirements
h265 support is extremely important, but it would be used only by a niche of people if it was added today.
Decoding is pretty CPU heavy right now too. HEVC is still a couple years away from widespread use tbh
Not decodeable by GPU? I heard that Carrizo apu's (even on low end laptops etc) can decode it fine
On June 13 2015 03:44 johnhopfensperger wrote: They should use HEVC. Then streamers could all go 1080p 60fps.
Sure, but do you know how hard it is to CPU-encode h265 efficiently?
Who has the spare CPU power to stream at 1080p60 right now? Take that and increase load by like 5-15x. I don't have any benchmarks but it's a pretty drastic change in CPU requirements
h265 support is extremely important, but it would be used only by a niche of people if it was added today.
Decoding is pretty CPU heavy right now too. HEVC is still a couple years away from widespread use tbh
Not decodeable by GPU? I heard that Carrizo apu's (even on low end laptops etc) can decode it fine
Yes, some hardware decoding is available, but it's not exactly widespread. The real starting point for HEVC adoption is when hardware decoding for smartphones/tablets becomes the standard, as mobile drives pretty much everything internet related these days. That's still a ways off.
Should be good news. Not so much because I think YouTube will provide a good service, but because competition is always a good thing. Twitch has been awful for quite a while now and has been steadily getting worse. But with YouTube out to get 'em, maybe they'll start to actually try and improve their service.
The only two changes that there seems to be from the current existing already available and live for at least like a year now, is that your live channel will have a set URL, rather than a different URL per streaming even, and you don't have to schedule it ahead of time, and that's per the Youtube FAQ on it on their website.
Given that you can already watch gaming streams live on Youtube, it will be interesting to see what else changes, if anything. All of the Riot streams for LoL have been on Twitch for ages, although they only go up to 720p and 30fps, for example, but I don't know if this is a Riot thing or a Youtube thing. The fact that they are already on Youtube and have been for a long time, and all VODs are on Youtube as well, they still only get about a quarter of the viewers of the live stream that Twitch gets, so it's not a foregone conclusion that people will watch Youtube instead of Twitch, given that it doesn't happen with LoL.
On June 13 2015 06:21 Lonyo wrote: The only two changes that there seems to be from the current existing already available and live for at least like a year now, is that your live channel will have a set URL, rather than a different URL per streaming even, and you don't have to schedule it ahead of time, and that's per the Youtube FAQ on it on their website.
Given that you can already watch gaming streams live on Youtube, it will be interesting to see what else changes, if anything. All of the Riot streams for LoL have been on Twitch for ages, although they only go up to 720p and 30fps, for example, but I don't know if this is a Riot thing or a Youtube thing. The fact that they are already on Youtube and have been for a long time, and all VODs are on Youtube as well, they still only get about a quarter of the viewers of the live stream that Twitch gets, so it's not a foregone conclusion that people will watch Youtube instead of Twitch, given that it doesn't happen with LoL.
The biggest reason, imo, that YouTube stream viewership has been so low is because the usability has been crap. Having a dedicated URL, and no longer having to schedule an event to go live will go a long way towards addressing those issues. If they pair that with a nice way to browse games/streams, they will be a real competitor. Their player and distribution platform is already leaps and bounds ahead of Twitch, and they obviously have a better VOD system.
On June 13 2015 06:21 Lonyo wrote: The only two changes that there seems to be from the current existing already available and live for at least like a year now, is that your live channel will have a set URL, rather than a different URL per streaming even, and you don't have to schedule it ahead of time, and that's per the Youtube FAQ on it on their website.
Given that you can already watch gaming streams live on Youtube, it will be interesting to see what else changes, if anything. All of the Riot streams for LoL have been on Twitch for ages, although they only go up to 720p and 30fps, for example, but I don't know if this is a Riot thing or a Youtube thing. The fact that they are already on Youtube and have been for a long time, and all VODs are on Youtube as well, they still only get about a quarter of the viewers of the live stream that Twitch gets, so it's not a foregone conclusion that people will watch Youtube instead of Twitch, given that it doesn't happen with LoL.
The biggest reason, imo, that YouTube stream viewership has been so low is because the usability has been crap. Having a dedicated URL, and no longer having to schedule an event to go live will go a long way towards addressing those issues. If they pair that with a nice way to browse games/streams, they will be a real competitor. Their player and distribution platform is already leaps and bounds ahead of Twitch, and they obviously have a better VOD system.
LCS is scheduled every day that it's on anyway, so I don't see how that really impacts it. The "dedicated" URL I use is the LCS Youtube user channel page, which on the Home tab has the live link when it's live anyway. Again, not sure how much difference that bit makes for anything. Maybe it reduces things by one click if you want to go to the specific stream page for the event, but the place to go to get the stream link never changes, but I can remember if you can watch the stream from within the user channel page anyway (but without spam chat, oh no).
For an even that has a regular schedule and runs at the same time every week, scheduled vs non scheduled streams should make zero difference, and there's a set channel to go to which is also the VOD channel. Despite that, it still doesn't get many viewers relative to the Twitch stream.
I think competition is great, but I really can't imagine YT dethroning Twitch. Streamers spend months and even years developing their viewer base, so the likelihood of people switching streaming platforms is very unlikely unless YT offers something to compensate this.
This move will probably be more attractive for unpopular Twitch streamers or newcomers. In this case it'll be a game of marketing between Twitch and YT in fighting to retain/obtain this specific group. Although I can imagine this being really interesting for popular YT gaming channels that may want to pick up streaming.
I wonder if there's a copyright on the K to the appa face. Also youtubechat doesn't really sound as good as twitchchat. They'll need to work hard to get the audience to move.
On June 13 2015 07:29 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: I wonder if there's a copyright on the K to the appa face. Also youtubechat doesn't really sound as good as twitchchat. They'll need to work hard to get the audience to move.
Youtube chat at the moment is ASCII spam and other spam and I think some emotes. Just like Twitch but without the kappa.
On June 13 2015 03:45 SkrollK wrote: Here they come.
Death of Twitch inc.
Honestly, to me, YT will just crush Twitch. Twitch works very poorly when you got a low connection, YT to the contrary just works well...
The only important data to me will be the ads remuneration figure on YT. If it's bigger on YT, then it's just instant death to Twitch. The other way around, Twitch might still have a chance.
I have a decent connection and can watch everything on Source but Twitch just stops sending data and keeps reloading and whatnot. It's garbage, bad dresign. Honestly, when it was one whole site (Justin.tv), it was completely fine and even after they split the gaming section off, but these past 2-3 years, ugh. Youtube has awful design as well but at least you can watch stuff when it's night/morning. Afternoon and evening is often a pain since it loads so slow that it's unwatchable.
I wish ustream would still be a thing. Unfortunately they messed up hard and drove all the users to Justin.tv. Hitbox is better regarding the stream but it has issues from time to time, the design is worse than Twitch's and my chat loads only after around 30 minutes for whatever reason.
How come there are good streaming services for Japan, Korea and China but no ones for the international audience?
My issues with the designs in general is that it caters to tablet and mobile users while as a PC user I want functionality, a clear overview and fast navigation.
Other than the shitty CPU usage Twitch generates I got no problem with them. No lags or anything. But YouTube is a real pain here in Germany. I can image something like if someone plays a song YouTube has no rights to in Germany there's a blackout and the "This content is not available in your country" screen. That would be the icing on the YouTube cake. And this US censorship thing (you cannot show one inch too much of you skin or use "dirty words") sucks, too, but this is actually a problem on both sites. Edit: One other thing that's better on Twitch (for me it is...): The popout Option. I always watch Twitch that way, because I like to surf additionally and the screen is bigger this way.
I have been streaming on YT past few months(expecting this and wanting to get partner on YT before they launch this)
and let me tell you YT is on another level. When I streamed on twitch, I would always drop frames and I would never know why. I boiled it down to my internet and or my computer. I could not stream 1080p to save my life on YT.
When I switched to YT, I can stream 1080p perfectly, 0 frame drops. IT was the twitch servers after all. Even though all the times I messaged twitch admin, they kept saying it was my problem. Fuckign skeezes!
Current streaming on YT is not bad, but obviously they will fix it. Chat needs revamp(easy fix) and the layout is bad(easy fix) and onto of that YT pays way more than twitch will. Even as a premium streamer on twitch they stilll skeez you.
Amazing! But dont take a dump on twitch when you havent even seen this new service yet. Twitch is not without its problems but they have completely changed esports, I do think this is awesome though. This keeps both companies in check and strive for quality. But to think this is the death of twitch... lol. Amazon didn't spend 970 million to just get taken out in one punch,
What this will be the death of is all the other small streaming services, like Dingit, especially ones that require a downloaded player. I'm just guessing anyway.
All the "Twitch is dead" posts are rather hilarious. Twitch isn't going away any time soon, barring some colossal mismanagement. They will definitely have to work even harder, but that's a good thing for both services.
If anything, I'd say places like Hitbox are about to be dead.
As a German I couldn't care less about a Youtube gaming streaming site, lol. Not like we can watch anyway, so there's at least that many people that will keep watching Twitch.
On June 13 2015 13:48 KrazyTrumpet wrote: All the "Twitch is dead" posts are rather hilarious. Twitch isn't going away any time soon, barring some colossal mismanagement. They will definitely have to work even harder, but that's a good thing for both services.
If anything, I'd say places like Hitbox are about to be dead.
lol, exactly what I just said, so I concur. I was trying to think of hitbox as well but couldn't remember the name, although I'm sure Dingit is even more dead than hitbox after ytg release
I have no faith in google, all they do for the past few years are buying some services and closing them later. Or trying to ruin existing ones with weird decisions, like the left aligned youtube for over a year, which weren't usable without bunch of custom scripts. Or how they forced safe search on everyone (used to be 3 options, on/off/"smart", they made it just on/"smart" about 2 years ago). Unless they'll somehow get a lot of big stramers and keep them (unlike azubu for example) and also provide quality service, people won't watch it.
Oh and let's not forget how google have failed with their social network thing (google+). They pushed it for years, added to every other service they had and yet no one cares about it.
On June 13 2015 12:16 andoRRR wrote: Other than the shitty CPU usage Twitch generates I got no problem with them. No lags or anything. But YouTube is a real pain here in Germany. I can image something like if someone plays a song YouTube has no rights to in Germany there's a blackout and the "This content is not available in your country" screen. That would be the icing on the YouTube cake. And this US censorship thing (you cannot show one inch too much of you skin or use "dirty words") sucks, too, but this is actually a problem on both sites. Edit: One other thing that's better on Twitch (for me it is...): The popout Option. I always watch Twitch that way, because I like to surf additionally and the screen is bigger this way.
Yea but to be fair, the content blocking is gonna come to Twitch when they start making more money and Amazon's lawyers start getting more paranoid. No large player can continue forever without doing so. Take it up with the RIAA, it is largely not the tech companies' fault.
I don't like youtube, and how their ads work. It's insane that there are some ads I have to watch for 30 seconds without any way to postpone or cancel them. Has anyone never had to show a youtube video in a presentation or something?
I think they've been using very nasty way to monetize their service... The auto play shit I have to disable every single time I visit youtube. Why is that on by default? Why is the "keep consuming attitude" there? Not only that, but they mute videos that get reported for DMCA, why not remove it if it's useless?
I don't like how youtube deals with copyright infringement in general, when you're this big, you just say "kay removed" at every report, instead of analyzing it, and it's completely unfair to the content creator. I think Twitch is doing a decent job, however every big site has the shittiest chat platform imaginable.
There should be a social hierarchy on chat, and through time, or by given kudos - you gain a higher rank. This either opens up another chat (so a popular channel might have 3 chats, for different levels)... This way, you'll at least get to a level of IRC or Reddit chat, instead of the garbage every single youtube and twitch chat is.
Well, as a partnered twitch streamer (without very many viewers, hueh) I think there are a couple important thing people need to realize from a streamer perspective.
1) Most people will more than likely not jump over to stream on YT unless they are assured that a certain % of their hardcore fanbase will travel over there with them.
They will more than likely only do 1) if 2) There is a huge increase in CPM rates for ads/an incentive to join the YT program.
Unless there are really any benefits to joining YT, the community built around Twitch atm is so much deeper and networking with other streamers is a great way to grow your own channel as well. Hosting is huge, and also in the speed running community, where there are things like AGDQ/SGDQ, Twitch helps these things thrive and the chat experience is incredibly supportive/fun.
I can't really see YT touching the whole community side of Twitch anytime in the foreseeable future and I certainly cannot see the chat experience in YT being anywhere near as great either, especially in light of how comments and so forth work on YT.
Really, if YT wants to make this work I think they're essentially going to have to create a huge incentive to join their program. Whether that is unique contracts for partners, like they have with their current big partners like FPSRussia and so forth, or just insane CPM rates like they currently have for regular partnered channels. Either way, money is going to be the way to steal over streamers... with that said... google has a ton of money... >.>
Just for comparison: I've made ~$500+ off ad revenue in the past few months via Youtube in comparison to the under $100 I've made off twitch since I ever became a partner (forever ago). The CPM rates on YT are insanely high and it's something Twitch is definitely going to have to consider raising if they want to compete/hold their streamers.
Also, the analytics and so forth on twitch are much more developed. It really helps the partners figure out what they need to fix/market to etc.
Some pictures:
Youtube
(keep in mind, u can have all of these ad types active if you really want to be an asshole. So their rates would then stack. If you were huge on youtube and did this for say, 1 video or so, then the amount of money you'd make would be insane. ofc, at the risk of pissing people off, but perhaps a worthy risk for 1 video in a sea of many)
And for comparison...
Twitch
Offers a $3.5 CPM rate or 50% of net advertisement revenue/50% of sub revenue. Some channels are different, depending on if they're premium like how huge streamers like Destiny and others have, but regardless, the base and even larger packages are much, much smaller in overall comparison. Half for a partner which has to have hundreds of concurrent vs a partnership on YT you can get just by filling out some forms and monetizing your videos yourself.... Twitch has gotta make tha moves
(to the guy earlier in the thread, no, CPM has never gone down on twitch. As far as I recall it has only been bumped up once though from ~2 to the 3.5 now I believe)
Well, as a partnered twitch streamer (without very many viewers, hueh) I think there are a couple important thing people need to realize from a streamer perspective.
1) Most people will more than likely not jump over to stream on YT unless they are assured that a certain % of their hardcore fanbase will travel over there with them.
They will more than likely only do 1) if 2) There is a huge increase in CPM rates for ads/an incentive to join the YT program.
Unless there are really any benefits to joining YT, the community built around Twitch atm is so much deeper and networking with other streamers is a great way to grow your own channel as well. Hosting is huge, and also in the speed running community, where there are things like AGDQ/SGDQ, Twitch helps these things thrive and the chat experience is incredibly supportive/fun.
I can't really see YT touching the whole community side of Twitch anytime in the foreseeable future and I certainly cannot see the chat experience in YT being anywhere near as great either, especially in light of how comments and so forth work on YT.
Really, if YT wants to make this work I think they're essentially going to have to create a huge incentive to join their program. Whether that is unique contracts for partners, like they have with their current big partners like FPSRussia and so forth, or just insane CPM rates like they currently have for regular partnered channels. Either way, money is going to be the way to steal over streamers... with that said... google has a ton of money... >.>
Just for comparison: I've made ~$500+ off ad revenue in the past few months via Youtube in comparison to the under $100 I've made off twitch since I ever became a partner (forever ago). The CPM rates on YT are insanely high and it's something Twitch is definitely going to have to consider raising if they want to compete/hold their streamers.
Also, the analytics and so forth on twitch are much more developed. It really helps the partners figure out what they need to fix/market to etc.
Some pictures:
Youtube
(keep in mind, u can have all of these ad types active if you really want to be an asshole. So their rates would then stack. If you were huge on youtube and did this for say, 1 video or so, then the amount of money you'd make would be insane. ofc, at the risk of pissing people off, but perhaps a worthy risk for 1 video in a sea of many)
And for comparison...
Twitch
Offers a $3.5 CPM rate or 50% of net advertisement revenue/50% of sub revenue. Some channels are different, depending on if they're premium like how huge streamers like Destiny and others have, but regardless, the base and even larger packages are much, much smaller in overall comparison. Half for a partner which has to have hundreds of concurrent vs a partnership on YT you can get just by filling out some forms and monetizing your videos yourself.... Twitch has gotta make tha moves
(to the guy earlier in the thread, no, CPM has never gone down on twitch. As far as I recall it has only been bumped up once though from ~2 to the 3.5 now I believe)
Thanks for the informative post, appreciated
I think the complaint that came about twitch is that they didn't have enough partners, so a lot of people didn't receive ads, because there weren't enough advertisers. And when an advertiser gives specific criteria as to who should see the ad, you can see why some wont get any. I think people call it "fill rates" or whatever.
That, and I would never watch twitch without Adblock, playing an ad on a stream upon arrive is so immoral to me. And many people use adblock too. I still ocassionally get ads on YT even though I have adblock on though.
On June 13 2015 17:08 -Kyo- wrote: [...}and also in the speed running community, where there are things like AGDQ/SGDQ, Twitch helps these things thrive and the chat experience is incredibly supportive/fun.
Those were on ustream before and switched to Justin.tv eventually. So if Youtube provides proper options, the possibility of a switch is there.
That kind of sucks. There are a lot of streamers in other countries with a good amount of viewers.
I think it might be because English is the main language on Internet and they can offer better contracts with a better add filling than Twitch.
What? because of language ? ^^ no no no well a bit yes but no :p Laws, darling. USA and UK share treaties and have a common view on how should work copyright. SO YTG can set up things without the fear of legal bumps. Especially if your governement has been pushing around for years in order to get TTIP signed:p ps: but it's possible that youtube have no one in order to translate his apps.it's just seems weird^^
Meh, I really don't trust Youtube that much. Every update they make to their website's ui and chat has made it worse and I don't really think they can capture what makes Twitch so great (the chat in particular).
I agree that the VoD system on twitch is crap, but everything else is stellar for me and has worked extremely well for me (I've had no issue with lag for a very long time).
People are all talking about streaming services and whatever. I think Youtube has a deeper strategy of killing off some of the gaming journalism/news blog sites by creating gaming hubs for every single game and having a video portal for that game covering all content. People will then produce content for each individual game for the youtube hub since it will be easily accesssible from there, essentially creating...drum roll
Video Reddit styled youtube except its in video form
As someone who's been working with google technologies a lot due to my work i'm so happy. Google tools always come with Devkits, API and so much more ! The viewing experience and everything around will be so much better than twitch :D also this allows virtual reality streaming, 3D streaming, 120 fps streaming, interactive streaming !
time has come to advance ! Also concurrence is the one thing that leads to innovation so twitch could be getting better too.
Only thing i really hope is that google sponsors some tournaments now.
Probably the only thing why twitch has been so dominant throughout 2014/15 is because of the lack of competition. Yes, sure there is already YT streaming and afreecat and all these, but honestly: they are of even worse quality than Twitch, because they only tried to immitate Twitch, rather than make a good product themselves.
I have been a happy GSL customer with yearly premium+ tickets for since this stuff existed, but I haven't bought one for 2015 because since 2013(?) they use Twitch as their primary channel and it just s*cks, especially for VODs.
On June 13 2015 20:18 BlacKcuD wrote: Probably the only thing why twitch has been so dominant throughout 2014/15 is because of the lack of competition. Yes, sure there is already YT streaming and afreecat and all these, but honestly: they are of even worse quality than Twitch, because they only tried to immitate Twitch, rather than make a good product themselves.
What the hell are you talking about? Afreeca "and all these" have been around for longer than Justin.tv/Twitch. Guess where Twitch copied a lot of their features from? Yep, other streaming services. Hosting someone? Well, it's a feature from NicoNico which got slightly modified.
On June 13 2015 20:18 BlacKcuD wrote: Probably the only thing why twitch has been so dominant throughout 2014/15 is because of the lack of competition. Yes, sure there is already YT streaming and afreecat and all these, but honestly: they are of even worse quality than Twitch, because they only tried to immitate Twitch, rather than make a good product themselves.
What the hell are you talking about? Afreeca "and all these" have been around for longer than Justin.tv/Twitch. Guess where Twitch copied a lot of their features from? Yep, other streaming services. Hosting someone? Well, it's a feature from NicoNico which got slightly modified.
Twitch is the first big streaming service in NA, so twitch must the only streaming service in the world no?
On June 13 2015 22:02 SkrollK wrote: Something I don't understand is how a lot of people are complaining that the tchat isn't as great on YT as it's on Twitch.
Are those people trolling or ?
All Internet tchat are RETARDED, expecially Twitch's... IDC how you can regret something as Twitch's tchats...
Twitch chat (I am not talking about the big tournament stream's chat) is 50% of the reason why I enjoy watching on twitch so much. To each is own.
On June 13 2015 22:02 SkrollK wrote: Something I don't understand is how a lot of people are complaining that the tchat isn't as great on YT as it's on Twitch.
Are those people trolling or ?
All Internet tchat are RETARDED, expecially Twitch's... IDC how you can regret something as Twitch's tchats...
On June 13 2015 20:18 BlacKcuD wrote: Probably the only thing why twitch has been so dominant throughout 2014/15 is because of the lack of competition. Yes, sure there is already YT streaming and afreecat and all these, but honestly: they are of even worse quality than Twitch, because they only tried to immitate Twitch, rather than make a good product themselves.
What the hell are you talking about? Afreeca "and all these" have been around for longer than Justin.tv/Twitch. Guess where Twitch copied a lot of their features from? Yep, other streaming services. Hosting someone? Well, it's a feature from NicoNico which got slightly modified.
Twitch is the first big streaming service in NA, so twitch must the only streaming service in the world no?
That would make sense but he claims he is from Germany, so...
The viewing experience and everything around will be so much better than twitch :D also this allows virtual reality streaming, 3D streaming, 120 fps streaming, interactive streaming !
Anyone can do VR streaming. AFAIK you can even do it right now on twitch, you just need to record the output and then somebody else with a VR headset on the other side of the stream can view that and it'll look the same for them.
120fps? Twitch supported for ages, youtube only just added support for >30fps - but only at specific resolutions.
As for other stuff, i use Hitbox right now. It's usually a ~3-6 second delay on Hitbox for me + friends, while Twitch is literally like 20 seconds even with the new option i hear. Hitbox doesn't have the same rules for stream settings that you need to have. If youtube is even close to competitive with that without taking away features, i'l be happy
The viewing experience and everything around will be so much better than twitch :D also this allows virtual reality streaming, 3D streaming, 120 fps streaming, interactive streaming !
Anyone can do VR streaming. AFAIK you can even do it right now on twitch, you just need to record the output and then somebody else with a VR headset on the other side of the stream can view that and it'll look the same for them.
120fps? Twitch supported for ages, youtube only just added support for >30fps - but only at specific resolutions.
As for other stuff, i use Hitbox right now. It's usually a ~3-6 second delay on Hitbox for me + friends, while Twitch is literally like 20 seconds even with the new option i hear. Hitbox doesn't have the same rules for stream settings that you need to have. If youtube is even close to competitive with that without taking away features, i'l be happy
Yeah, because Flash player's high FPS support is soooooo good lol. They need to roll out an HTML5 player already.
The viewing experience and everything around will be so much better than twitch :D also this allows virtual reality streaming, 3D streaming, 120 fps streaming, interactive streaming !
Anyone can do VR streaming. AFAIK you can even do it right now on twitch, you just need to record the output and then somebody else with a VR headset on the other side of the stream can view that and it'll look the same for them.
120fps? Twitch supported for ages, youtube only just added support for >30fps - but only at specific resolutions.
As for other stuff, i use Hitbox right now. It's usually a ~3-6 second delay on Hitbox for me + friends, while Twitch is literally like 20 seconds even with the new option i hear. Hitbox doesn't have the same rules for stream settings that you need to have. If youtube is even close to competitive with that without taking away features, i'l be happy
Yeah, because Flash player's high FPS support is soooooo good lol. They need to roll out an HTML5 player already.
It actually works fine for me @120fps with chrome flash player - firefox i could never find a workable solution for. Stuttered like a bitch even @480p30.
The viewing experience and everything around will be so much better than twitch :D also this allows virtual reality streaming, 3D streaming, 120 fps streaming, interactive streaming !
Anyone can do VR streaming. AFAIK you can even do it right now on twitch, you just need to record the output and then somebody else with a VR headset on the other side of the stream can view that and it'll look the same for them.
120fps? Twitch supported for ages, youtube only just added support for >30fps - but only at specific resolutions.
As for other stuff, i use Hitbox right now. It's usually a ~3-6 second delay on Hitbox for me + friends, while Twitch is literally like 20 seconds even with the new option i hear. Hitbox doesn't have the same rules for stream settings that you need to have. If youtube is even close to competitive with that without taking away features, i'l be happy
Yeah, because Flash player's high FPS support is soooooo good lol. They need to roll out an HTML5 player already.
It actually works fine for me @120fps with chrome flash player - firefox i could never find a workable solution for. Stuttered like a bitch even @480p30.
Sure, it works, but it lags frames all over the place. Even at 60fps, Flash player loses frames at 720p.
The viewing experience and everything around will be so much better than twitch :D also this allows virtual reality streaming, 3D streaming, 120 fps streaming, interactive streaming !
Anyone can do VR streaming. AFAIK you can even do it right now on twitch, you just need to record the output and then somebody else with a VR headset on the other side of the stream can view that and it'll look the same for them.
120fps? Twitch supported for ages, youtube only just added support for >30fps - but only at specific resolutions.
As for other stuff, i use Hitbox right now. It's usually a ~3-6 second delay on Hitbox for me + friends, while Twitch is literally like 20 seconds even with the new option i hear. Hitbox doesn't have the same rules for stream settings that you need to have. If youtube is even close to competitive with that without taking away features, i'l be happy
Yeah, because Flash player's high FPS support is soooooo good lol. They need to roll out an HTML5 player already.
It actually works fine for me @120fps with chrome flash player - firefox i could never find a workable solution for. Stuttered like a bitch even @480p30.
Sure, it works, but it lags frames all over the place. Even at 60fps, Flash player loses frames at 720p.
I grabbed a 720p60 stream with chrome flash player on twitch to test for you, it's dropping less than 0.01% of frames. HTML5 player on youtube @1080p60 dropped 0 in several minutes though
On June 13 2015 22:02 SkrollK wrote: Something I don't understand is how a lot of people are complaining that the tchat isn't as great on YT as it's on Twitch.
Are those people trolling or ?
All Internet tchat are RETARDED, expecially Twitch's... IDC how you can regret something as Twitch's tchats...
Not really. I've watched plenty of non-gaming related streams from Youtube and the chats are pretty civil. Twitch chat is terrible, though that might just be a symptom of gaming culture in general.
I like watching some streams due to how troll the twitch chats can be. Why would you read a streaming chat for actual "substance"? Often there is just playful interaction between the viewers and the streamer. I'd imagine if YT became as popular for gaming streams as Twitch, then the chat experience would be about the same (dependent on the type of streamer).
But it'll definitely be interesting to see how this goes. I've never had much trouble using YT for watching ProLeague in the past, so we shall see!
On June 13 2015 22:02 SkrollK wrote: All Internet tchat are RETARDED, expecially Twitch's...
Twitch chat (I am not talking about the big tournament stream's chat) is 50% of the reason why I enjoy watching on twitch so much. To each is own.
Just because you enjoy it, it doesn't make what SkrollK said wrong in any way or form.
He asked if we are trolling. No we are not. I do enjoy the chat. Yes the chat can be pretty stupid at time, but it does not mean that it is not enjoyable most of the time.
so the few times I've watched League of Legends events, I sometimes watched them on Youtube stream Advantages of youtube: + instead of not seeing anything due to insufficient bandwidth/buffering, it automatically lowers the quality until the buffering has cought up for better quality + you used to be able to go back in time if you missed something or to rewatch it, just like a VOD Disadvantages: - Chat - the feature mentioned above to go back in time and not just watch live does not work for me anymore for quite some time now
On June 14 2015 19:03 litlnoobs wrote: It isn't enjoyable to most people most of the time. That's something "esports" will need to understand if they want to be anything more than a niche.
I am quite sure you have done extensive research on the matter to back up the claim that it is not enjoyable for most people most of the time. In the meant time, chat activity on the whole seems to pretty much contradict it. While most conversations might not have real substance or any sort of logical or civil discussions going on, chats are highly active. Someone who doesn't enjoy a chat, does not converse in it, which means looking at the general activity, you can say that a lot (impossible to be sure how many) do enjoy the chat.
On June 14 2015 19:03 litlnoobs wrote: It isn't enjoyable to most people most of the time. That's something "esports" will need to understand if they want to be anything more than a niche.
I wouldn't be surprised if they stayed even more of a niche with a normal chat. Dumb people are not uncommon. Like, umm, I am sure Raynad and the likes allow their text to speach and retarded chat not because they personally enjoy it. Only because it's profitable. Depends on target audience probably. Of course if we speak niche as opposed to basketball level mainstream, retarded chats must go.
I might be dumb here but doesnt Google own both twitch and youtube? Why would they want to introduce a second streaming platform when they already have one?
On June 14 2015 22:39 Skynx wrote: I might be dumb here but doesnt Google own both twitch and youtube? Why would they want to introduce a second streaming platform when they already have one?
On June 14 2015 19:07 Fi0na wrote: so the few times I've watched League of Legends events, I sometimes watched them on Youtube stream Advantages of youtube: + instead of not seeing anything due to insufficient bandwidth/buffering, it automatically lowers the quality until the buffering has cought up for better quality + you used to be able to go back in time if you missed something or to rewatch it, just like a VOD Disadvantages: - Chat - the feature mentioned above to go back in time and not just watch live does not work for me anymore for quite some time now
Still works fine for me, have you tried alternative browsers?
If you enjoy twitch chat and the "community" and other similarly incomprehensible things, be my guest and keep it. Just give us, who want to see the actual content, a reliably working solution for getting the data to our computers. If only one company can do, it is Google, with its huge infrastructure. I couldn't care less if all the private streamers stay on Twitch, but I would really appreciate a non-Twitch stream for all significant tournaments.
On June 13 2015 22:02 SkrollK wrote: All Internet tchat are RETARDED, expecially Twitch's...
Twitch chat (I am not talking about the big tournament stream's chat) is 50% of the reason why I enjoy watching on twitch so much. To each is own.
Just because you enjoy it, it doesn't make what SkrollK said wrong in any way or form.
He asked if we are trolling. No we are not. I do enjoy the chat. Yes the chat can be pretty stupid at time, but it does not mean that it is not enjoyable most of the time.
Yep sorry, I really was wondering if someone was actually enjoying tchats in general, but that's quite dumb since there are a lot of people using it, so I guess I was the stupid one there
Nonetheless, I can't understand why people wouldn't jump on a better stream plateform just 'cause of the tchat. But that's only my opinion there.
To me, YT is soooooo much more enjoyable that I'll glady let Twitch down in the abyss for YT anytime I'll be able to. Seems like some other people share this thought, so, I guess, time and company decisions will decide
EDIT :
On June 15 2015 04:59 opisska wrote: If you enjoy twitch chat and the "community" and other similarly incomprehensible things, be my guest and keep it. Just give us, who want to see the actual content, a reliably working solution for getting the data to our computers. If only one company can do, it is Google, with its huge infrastructure. I couldn't care less if all the private streamers stay on Twitch, but I would really appreciate a non-Twitch stream for all significant tournaments.
The thing about youtube is that when someone accidentally plays a copyrights song they will get their channel shutdown. So it's not all greener pastures. Twitch will still be used more for streaming than youtube.
On June 15 2015 08:27 Baarn wrote: The thing about youtube is that when someone accidentally plays a copyrights song they will get their channel shutdown. So it's not all greener pastures. Twitch will still be used more for streaming than youtube.
How do you know YTG wont have the same thing as Twitch where you can play copyrighted songs live and it'll just mute the VoDs where the song was played? And people just generally avoid copyrighted songs now anyway, even on Twitch, so that the VoDs aren't muted. I don't think it's too much of an issue, really! Especially with things like Monstercat getting pretty huge now.
On June 15 2015 08:27 Baarn wrote: The thing about youtube is that when someone accidentally plays a copyrights song they will get their channel shutdown. So it's not all greener pastures. Twitch will still be used more for streaming than youtube.
How do you know YTG wont have the same thing as Twitch where you can play copyrighted songs live and it'll just mute the VoDs where the song was played? And people just generally avoid copyrighted songs now anyway, even on Twitch, so that the VoDs aren't muted. I don't think it's too much of an issue, really! Especially with things like Monstercat getting pretty huge now.
Players of stuff like rhythm games had to move away from Twitch to other streaming services because of hours of gameplay being muted (you can't have a music+rhythm game without audio), youtube is even more strict
On June 15 2015 08:27 Baarn wrote: The thing about youtube is that when someone accidentally plays a copyrights song they will get their channel shutdown. So it's not all greener pastures. Twitch will still be used more for streaming than youtube.
How do you know YTG wont have the same thing as Twitch where you can play copyrighted songs live and it'll just mute the VoDs where the song was played? And people just generally avoid copyrighted songs now anyway, even on Twitch, so that the VoDs aren't muted. I don't think it's too much of an issue, really! Especially with things like Monstercat getting pretty huge now.
Players of stuff like rhythm games had to move away from Twitch to other streaming services because of hours of gameplay being muted (you can't have a music+rhythm game without audio), youtube is even more strict
Huh, okay I hadn't actually thought about games like that. That does kinda suck for games like that I guess, quite a bit of limiting factor to only be able to play copyright-free music. But then with how huge YouTube is I don't think they really could do something like that. Really, unless the whole copyright system in general changes dramatically, streams like that with copyrighted songs will pretty much always have to be stuck in smaller streaming services that are less strict about enforcing that.
On June 15 2015 08:27 Baarn wrote: The thing about youtube is that when someone accidentally plays a copyrights song they will get their channel shutdown. So it's not all greener pastures. Twitch will still be used more for streaming than youtube.
How do you know YTG wont have the same thing as Twitch where you can play copyrighted songs live and it'll just mute the VoDs where the song was played? And people just generally avoid copyrighted songs now anyway, even on Twitch, so that the VoDs aren't muted. I don't think it's too much of an issue, really! Especially with things like Monstercat getting pretty huge now.
Players of stuff like rhythm games had to move away from Twitch to other streaming services because of hours of gameplay being muted (you can't have a music+rhythm game without audio), youtube is even more strict
Huh, okay I hadn't actually thought about games like that. That does kinda suck for games like that I guess, quite a bit of limiting factor to only be able to play copyright-free music. But then with how huge YouTube is I don't think they really could do something like that. Really, unless the whole copyright system in general changes dramatically, streams like that with copyrighted songs will pretty much always have to be stuck in smaller streaming services that are less strict about enforcing that.
They have copyright bots that monitor the entire site. There is little human interaction with it and it autoreports you. You must be daft if you think they won't be in YTG channels.
quite a bit of limiting factor to only be able to play copyright-free music
Basically any music at all, since the vast majority of beatmaps are either regular music of some kind without artist permission
OR even
music that is explicitly made for the game, but you don't own the game and you're streaming/recording it so you'll get muted.
That's the equivalent of twitch muting a dota 2 tournament because it has dota 2 music in it and it's not Valve's channel - and it actually happens quite a lot.
stuff with 0 form of copyright at all is very rare. Most of the free stuff from newgrounds even has basic copyrights.
On June 15 2015 08:27 Baarn wrote: The thing about youtube is that when someone accidentally plays a copyrights song they will get their channel shutdown. So it's not all greener pastures. Twitch will still be used more for streaming than youtube.
How do you know YTG wont have the same thing as Twitch where you can play copyrighted songs live and it'll just mute the VoDs where the song was played? And people just generally avoid copyrighted songs now anyway, even on Twitch, so that the VoDs aren't muted. I don't think it's too much of an issue, really! Especially with things like Monstercat getting pretty huge now.
Players of stuff like rhythm games had to move away from Twitch to other streaming services because of hours of gameplay being muted (you can't have a music+rhythm game without audio), youtube is even more strict
Huh, okay I hadn't actually thought about games like that. That does kinda suck for games like that I guess, quite a bit of limiting factor to only be able to play copyright-free music. But then with how huge YouTube is I don't think they really could do something like that. Really, unless the whole copyright system in general changes dramatically, streams like that with copyrighted songs will pretty much always have to be stuck in smaller streaming services that are less strict about enforcing that.
They have copyright bots that monitor the entire site. There is little human interaction with it and it autoreports you. You must be daft if you think they won't be in YTG channels.
Oh yeah no I'm SURE they'll have copyright stuff. I'm just saying I don't know whether or not it'll affect anything live. It's one thing to analyze a complete video that is uploaded for any of the things stored in the copyright database, but doing that live is something else entirely. I think it'll be more like Twitch's automated copyright management, where it scans the VoD once the stream is completed and mutes the copyrighted material, or something similar.
quite a bit of limiting factor to only be able to play copyright-free music
Basically any music at all, since the vast majority of beatmaps are either regular music of some kind without artist permission
OR even
music that is explicitly made for the game, but you don't own the game and you're streaming/recording it so you'll get muted.
That's the equivalent of twitch muting a dota 2 tournament because it has dota 2 music in it and it's not Valve's channel - and it actually happens quite a lot.
stuff with 0 form of copyright at all is very rare. Most of the free stuff from newgrounds even has basic copyrights.
And yeah what I was talking about there was music that the author has given permission that they're okay with people using for stuff like that. But regardless, that still sucks, not sure what there is to do about that though with copyright law the way it is :\
quite a bit of limiting factor to only be able to play copyright-free music
Basically any music at all, since the vast majority of beatmaps are either regular music of some kind without artist permission
OR even
music that is explicitly made for the game, but you don't own the game and you're streaming/recording it so you'll get muted.
That's the equivalent of twitch muting a dota 2 tournament because it has dota 2 music in it and it's not Valve's channel - and it actually happens quite a lot.
stuff with 0 form of copyright at all is very rare. Most of the free stuff from newgrounds even has basic copyrights.
You don't need to have 0 form of copyright. Music released with Creative Commons (which I guess requires it to not have -NC suffix as streaming of any kind is essentially commercial) would be fine.
quite a bit of limiting factor to only be able to play copyright-free music
Basically any music at all, since the vast majority of beatmaps are either regular music of some kind without artist permission
OR even
music that is explicitly made for the game, but you don't own the game and you're streaming/recording it so you'll get muted.
That's the equivalent of twitch muting a dota 2 tournament because it has dota 2 music in it and it's not Valve's channel - and it actually happens quite a lot.
stuff with 0 form of copyright at all is very rare. Most of the free stuff from newgrounds even has basic copyrights.
You don't need to have 0 form of copyright. Music released with Creative Commons (which I guess requires it to not have -NC suffix as streaming of any kind is essentially commercial) would be fine.
don't worry the bot makes sure you can't use 99% of the music under licence that would allow you to use it. Even your own music could make you get rekted by the bot.
Currently if you play CR music while live streaming on YT, YT wont put you in the "live streaming" section on their site, so you basically become a ghost.
I have streamed games with their in-game music and it is totally fine, no restriction on the video.
Twitch has been rolling the dice too long with their lack of controlling the bullshit that goes on there site and I expect to see lawsuit to streamer or to twitch itself(for not enforcing enough) soon. They're getting too big.
I really hope YTG dents Twitch alot. Twitch takes so much money from potential broadcast earning its pretty nasty. I mean the funniest thing on twitch I have seen is subscriptions. They tell you "This directly supports the broadcaster" but in reality twitch takes 50%! A true joke.
I have already made the switch few months ago and loving YT. Just because I have ~50-100 viewers on YT live doesnt mean they wont give me front-page(which I get alot now) Which I think alot of low-medium streamers on twitch will like since getting to the "front page" reallly boosts your success.
Honestly all they need to do is fix chat(easier to do emotes etc) and YT will be in the game so easy. And that is the easiest part. They already have the name, viewerbase, and marketshare to do what they like. The payout on YT is way higher than twitch will ever be able to afford.
I have no idea if it was intentional but the host guy for the YouTube stream basically fired some shots at Twitch with the outage that happened, saying that they'll have Ubisoft's presentation on the "most RELIABLE high quality stream around," haha.
On June 15 2015 22:55 Eggi wrote: I really hope YTG dents Twitch alot. Twitch takes so much money from potential broadcast earning its pretty nasty. I mean the funniest thing on twitch I have seen is subscriptions. They tell you "This directly supports the broadcaster" but in reality twitch takes 50%! A true joke.
I have already made the switch few months ago and loving YT. Just because I have ~50-100 viewers on YT live doesnt mean they wont give me front-page(which I get alot now) Which I think alot of low-medium streamers on twitch will like since getting to the "front page" reallly boosts your success.
Of course you hope it would happen, since your twitch channel is closed for viewbotting. --- Again I'd like to remind people how google has failed with google+. They could drop 10 times more money into it and people still wouldn't use it, because why if there's already facebook and twitter.
We'll see if it happens with that new youtube service, but I doubt anyone with a good viewbase would want to switch to youtube. And even if someone does... Switches are always painful and hurt your viewership a lot. I remember when own3d got shut down and some streamers had to switch to twitch, even though own3d was much smaller, they still struggled to get same numbers for a long time. Some didn't at all, since their niche already was taken by other streamers.
Or some "paid" changes, like Artosis switched from twitch to azubu. 1000-1500 viewers (even more if there were no big HS streamers on during that time) into like 200, even though azubu provides decent quality streams unlike some hitbox or viagame.
But if twitch will do some upgrading/changing/etc because they think they finally got some real competition, I'll be happy, so at the end, it's all good for us, viewers and hopefully streamers too.
quite a bit of limiting factor to only be able to play copyright-free music
Basically any music at all, since the vast majority of beatmaps are either regular music of some kind without artist permission
OR even
music that is explicitly made for the game, but you don't own the game and you're streaming/recording it so you'll get muted.
That's the equivalent of twitch muting a dota 2 tournament because it has dota 2 music in it and it's not Valve's channel - and it actually happens quite a lot.
stuff with 0 form of copyright at all is very rare. Most of the free stuff from newgrounds even has basic copyrights.
You don't need to have 0 form of copyright. Music released with Creative Commons (which I guess requires it to not have -NC suffix as streaming of any kind is essentially commercial) would be fine.
don't worry the bot makes sure you can't use 99% of the music under licence that would allow you to use it. Even your own music could make you get rekted by the bot.
My fiance from time to time publushes videos with her dog with music licensed under CC and so far there were no problems. Then again maybe the visibility is too low for YT to bother.
quite a bit of limiting factor to only be able to play copyright-free music
Basically any music at all, since the vast majority of beatmaps are either regular music of some kind without artist permission
OR even
music that is explicitly made for the game, but you don't own the game and you're streaming/recording it so you'll get muted.
That's the equivalent of twitch muting a dota 2 tournament because it has dota 2 music in it and it's not Valve's channel - and it actually happens quite a lot.
stuff with 0 form of copyright at all is very rare. Most of the free stuff from newgrounds even has basic copyrights.
You don't need to have 0 form of copyright. Music released with Creative Commons (which I guess requires it to not have -NC suffix as streaming of any kind is essentially commercial) would be fine.
don't worry the bot makes sure you can't use 99% of the music under licence that would allow you to use it. Even your own music could make you get rekted by the bot.
My fiance from time to time publushes videos with her dog with music licensed under CC and so far there were no problems. Then again maybe the visibility is too low for YT to bother.
I was talking about the bot twitch uses. Incredibly annoying.
On June 13 2015 16:50 FiWiFaKi wrote: I don't like youtube, and how their ads work. It's insane that there are some ads I have to watch for 30 seconds without any way to postpone or cancel them. Has anyone never had to show a youtube video in a presentation or something?
quite a bit of limiting factor to only be able to play copyright-free music
Basically any music at all, since the vast majority of beatmaps are either regular music of some kind without artist permission
OR even
music that is explicitly made for the game, but you don't own the game and you're streaming/recording it so you'll get muted.
That's the equivalent of twitch muting a dota 2 tournament because it has dota 2 music in it and it's not Valve's channel - and it actually happens quite a lot.
stuff with 0 form of copyright at all is very rare. Most of the free stuff from newgrounds even has basic copyrights.
You don't need to have 0 form of copyright. Music released with Creative Commons (which I guess requires it to not have -NC suffix as streaming of any kind is essentially commercial) would be fine.
don't worry the bot makes sure you can't use 99% of the music under licence that would allow you to use it. Even your own music could make you get rekted by the bot.
My fiance from time to time publushes videos with her dog with music licensed under CC and so far there were no problems. Then again maybe the visibility is too low for YT to bother.
I was talking about the bot twitch uses. Incredibly annoying.
On June 15 2015 22:55 Eggi wrote: I really hope YTG dents Twitch alot. Twitch takes so much money from potential broadcast earning its pretty nasty. I mean the funniest thing on twitch I have seen is subscriptions. They tell you "This directly supports the broadcaster" but in reality twitch takes 50%! A true joke.
I have already made the switch few months ago and loving YT. Just because I have ~50-100 viewers on YT live doesnt mean they wont give me front-page(which I get alot now) Which I think alot of low-medium streamers on twitch will like since getting to the "front page" reallly boosts your success.
Of course you hope it would happen, since your twitch channel is closed for viewbotting. --- Again I'd like to remind people how google has failed with google+. They could drop 10 times more money into it and people still wouldn't use it, because why if there's already facebook and twitter.
We'll see if it happens with that new youtube service, but I doubt anyone with a good viewbase would want to switch to youtube. And even if someone does... Switches are always painful and hurt your viewership a lot. I remember when own3d got shut down and some streamers had to switch to twitch, even though own3d was much smaller, they still struggled to get same numbers for a long time. Some didn't at all, since their niche already was taken by other streamers.
Or some "paid" changes, like Artosis switched from twitch to azubu. 1000-1500 viewers (even more if there were no big HS streamers on during that time) into like 200, even though azubu provides decent quality streams unlike some hitbox or viagame.
But if twitch will do some upgrading/changing/etc because they think they finally got some real competition, I'll be happy, so at the end, it's all good for us, viewers and hopefully streamers too.
Actually for excessive drinking. I'll forward you the email if you want, for $50 bet if you want to put the money where your mouth is
Thought you may be interested to see how the Android app (I don't expect the ios app to be much different), and the desktop version of youtube gaming look in beta:
So basically, it looks that this is so much more than twitch, its everything gaming.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mTWM3md.jpg)
) 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Qt1jOEY.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GhJ0d3l.jpg)
