On January 08 2015 02:05 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: This should fuel the far right even more in Europe.
I hope it does. I'm about as socialist as it gets, but this moral relativism bullshit that has infected Europe will continue to allow for this kind of stuff to happen. You can't just label this as another perspective and move on, patting yourself on the back for being tolerant. France did just fine prior to their influx of immigration. If this is how they are rewarded for their generosity, than I can't imagine them continuing to be. It's sad to realize people will still insist Islam has nothing to do with this. What the fuck is France supposed to do? They are under attack.
On January 08 2015 02:12 SoSexy wrote: [quote]
I would greatly appreciate a translation.
And I greatly appreciate your post.
Last time I said this I was banned for two weeks, but you can't just pretend this has nothing to do with Islam. Yes, these acts are perpetrated by extremists, but at the same time, this is exactly what the religious manifest of three billion people dictates.
The fact that most of these three billion people are sane, non-violent and decent people changes nothing about the fact that subversion, violence and suppression against non-Muslims are exactly what the Quran dictates.
I have never read the Quran, but from hearing from others, actions like this are highly frowned upon.
The only reason ISIS gets any support in the region is that ISIS government, whilst ruling by fear, is at least more stable than what Iraq and Syria used to be.
Muslims all over the world condemn this kind of behavior and I'm pretty sure the Quran says nothing about slaughtering innocent people for not believing in the Islam. Islam is a lot more familiar to Christianity/Judism than we usually think.
Also the 3 billion stat is pulled out of your arse.
Actions like what? Killing over Muhammad drawings? Because when the originals were first published, there were riots (of regular Muslims) all over the world and 200+ innocents were killed. Or you mean that the Quran in itself frowns on those actions? Because if the Quran doesn't call for a punishment for depicting muhammad, it (much like every other religious book) does for a lot of pretty mild stuff. You might think that Muslims don't take those commands literally or don't want it to be applied as law but you would be wrong. This is an article using polls about sharia and Islam in general in the general population of Islamic countries:
As you can see for example in Egypt, 74% think the Sharia should be the law of the land and be applied to muslim and non muslim alike, 81% think stoning is the adequate punishment for adultery and 86% think death should be applied for anyone leaving Islam.
The idea that Muslims all over the world are mostly the same as the rest of us and only the extremists view the world in such a distorted way is unfortunately wrong.
User was temp banned for this post.
Why ban? seemed pretty civil.
Saying that most Muslims view the world the same way blood-thirsty extremists do is not very civil.
You guys don't seem to understand the concept of derailing a thread.
Religion will be religion. Leave it at that. It's caused blood shed before, and it will again.
Then what is the purpose of this thread? What else is there to discuss? How this incident will affect French and European politics? Pretty sure someone got all angry early on in this thread and said it's none of our business what happens in his country.
No, really, what is there left to discuss about this, if you take this away?
I don't know but TL has always had a no religious arguments rule and if there's nothing else to discuss then the thread will die down but using to argue about religion is definately a no no
On January 08 2015 02:05 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: This should fuel the far right even more in Europe.
I hope it does. I'm about as socialist as it gets, but this moral relativism bullshit that has infected Europe will continue to allow for this kind of stuff to happen. You can't just label this as another perspective and move on, patting yourself on the back for being tolerant. France did just fine prior to their influx of immigration. If this is how they are rewarded for their generosity, than I can't imagine them continuing to be. It's sad to realize people will still insist Islam has nothing to do with this. What the fuck is France supposed to do? They are under attack.
Last time I said this I was banned for two weeks, but you can't just pretend this has nothing to do with Islam. Yes, these acts are perpetrated by extremists, but at the same time, this is exactly what the religious manifest of three billion people dictates.
The fact that most of these three billion people are sane, non-violent and decent people changes nothing about the fact that subversion, violence and suppression against non-Muslims are exactly what the Quran dictates.
I have never read the Quran, but from hearing from others, actions like this are highly frowned upon.
The only reason ISIS gets any support in the region is that ISIS government, whilst ruling by fear, is at least more stable than what Iraq and Syria used to be.
Muslims all over the world condemn this kind of behavior and I'm pretty sure the Quran says nothing about slaughtering innocent people for not believing in the Islam. Islam is a lot more familiar to Christianity/Judism than we usually think.
Also the 3 billion stat is pulled out of your arse.
Actions like what? Killing over Muhammad drawings? Because when the originals were first published, there were riots (of regular Muslims) all over the world and 200+ innocents were killed. Or you mean that the Quran in itself frowns on those actions? Because if the Quran doesn't call for a punishment for depicting muhammad, it (much like every other religious book) does for a lot of pretty mild stuff. You might think that Muslims don't take those commands literally or don't want it to be applied as law but you would be wrong. This is an article using polls about sharia and Islam in general in the general population of Islamic countries:
As you can see for example in Egypt, 74% think the Sharia should be the law of the land and be applied to muslim and non muslim alike, 81% think stoning is the adequate punishment for adultery and 86% think death should be applied for anyone leaving Islam.
The idea that Muslims all over the world are mostly the same as the rest of us and only the extremists view the world in such a distorted way is unfortunately wrong.
User was temp banned for this post.
Why ban? seemed pretty civil.
Saying that most Muslims view the world the same way blood-thirsty extremists do is not very civil.
You guys don't seem to understand the concept of derailing a thread.
Religion will be religion. Leave it at that. It's caused blood shed before, and it will again.
Then what is the purpose of this thread? What else is there to discuss? How this incident will affect French and European politics? Pretty sure someone got all angry early on in this thread and said it's none of our business what happens in his country.
No, really, what is there left to discuss about this, if you take this away?
The news. Maybe the way the French people are mourning, maybe the fact the shooters are still out there, maybe the fact there is a manhunt and maybe the fact that news will come up about it.
The moderators will close this thread if it stoops to discussions of religion, since there are not supposed to be religion threads on TL. They never end well, they always seem to bring out the worst in the posters who post in them as well.
As much as I think the no religion thread is probably the stupidest thing on tl, I believe that we should discuss the manhunt here. I think updates will come during the night
On January 08 2015 05:05 VelJa wrote: THEY ARE SPOTTED FRENCH "DGSI" INTELLIGENCE GOT THEIR 3 NAMES THEYRE ALL FRENCH 2 BROTHER ONE KNOWN FOR TERRORIST ISSUE
On January 08 2015 05:05 VelJa wrote: THEY ARE SPOTTED FRENCH "DGSI" INTELLIGENCE GOT THEIR 3 NAMES THEYRE ALL FRENCH 2 BROTHER ONE KNOWN FOR TERRORIST ISSUE
On January 08 2015 05:05 VelJa wrote: THEY ARE SPOTTED FRENCH "DGSI" INTELLIGENCE GOT THEIR 3 NAMES THEYRE ALL FRENCH 2 BROTHER ONE KNOWN FOR TERRORIST ISSUE
source : heard it live on TF1 News righ now
everything will be spread across every police force of the european union
they are fucked, i don't give them more than 3 days
On January 08 2015 02:05 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: This should fuel the far right even more in Europe.
I hope it does. I'm about as socialist as it gets, but this moral relativism bullshit that has infected Europe will continue to allow for this kind of stuff to happen. You can't just label this as another perspective and move on, patting yourself on the back for being tolerant. France did just fine prior to their influx of immigration. If this is how they are rewarded for their generosity, than I can't imagine them continuing to be. It's sad to realize people will still insist Islam has nothing to do with this. What the fuck is France supposed to do? They are under attack.
Last time I said this I was banned for two weeks, but you can't just pretend this has nothing to do with Islam. Yes, these acts are perpetrated by extremists, but at the same time, this is exactly what the religious manifest of three billion people dictates.
The fact that most of these three billion people are sane, non-violent and decent people changes nothing about the fact that subversion, violence and suppression against non-Muslims are exactly what the Quran dictates.
I have never read the Quran, but from hearing from others, actions like this are highly frowned upon.
The only reason ISIS gets any support in the region is that ISIS government, whilst ruling by fear, is at least more stable than what Iraq and Syria used to be.
Muslims all over the world condemn this kind of behavior and I'm pretty sure the Quran says nothing about slaughtering innocent people for not believing in the Islam. Islam is a lot more familiar to Christianity/Judism than we usually think.
Also the 3 billion stat is pulled out of your arse.
Actions like what? Killing over Muhammad drawings? Because when the originals were first published, there were riots (of regular Muslims) all over the world and 200+ innocents were killed. Or you mean that the Quran in itself frowns on those actions? Because if the Quran doesn't call for a punishment for depicting muhammad, it (much like every other religious book) does for a lot of pretty mild stuff. You might think that Muslims don't take those commands literally or don't want it to be applied as law but you would be wrong. This is an article using polls about sharia and Islam in general in the general population of Islamic countries:
As you can see for example in Egypt, 74% think the Sharia should be the law of the land and be applied to muslim and non muslim alike, 81% think stoning is the adequate punishment for adultery and 86% think death should be applied for anyone leaving Islam.
The idea that Muslims all over the world are mostly the same as the rest of us and only the extremists view the world in such a distorted way is unfortunately wrong.
User was temp banned for this post.
Why ban? seemed pretty civil.
Saying that most Muslims view the world the same way blood-thirsty extremists do is not very civil.
You guys don't seem to understand the concept of derailing a thread.
Religion will be religion. Leave it at that. It's caused blood shed before, and it will again.
Then what is the purpose of this thread? What else is there to discuss? How this incident will affect French and European politics? Pretty sure someone got all angry early on in this thread and said it's none of our business what happens in his country.
No, really, what is there left to discuss about this, if you take this away?
For example, you can talk about how there is a risk that some people start stigmatizing every muslim person because they think it's a matter of religion
I feel really bad for the 18 year old kid. Really dumb, and terrible. I hate seeing such young people doing these things because a lot of the times they make a bad decision and are easily manipulated into doing terrible terrible things. He had so much life ahead of him, and I wonder if he was radicalized by the older people
On January 08 2015 04:17 Incognoto wrote: Terrorist attacks happen all the time, 10 people dead isn't a lot. It's kind of harsh that this attack would cause such an uproar when there are so many similar incidents in other parts in the world that people just don't care about. I guess if you're from Africa or Asia your death is somehow not as relevant as when westerners die. If you don't care about the massacre of 100 children in Pakistan then I don't see why you would care about the death of a couple of cartoonists. Maybe I'm just numb that people don't give a shit about anything other than what they can see through their iPhone or Facebook.
E: Just to clarify I obviously don't condone these attacks. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that incidents such as these are needed to remind people of the state the world is in right now.
That's kind of what I thought too. While the attack made me feel sick, and it's obviously awful because of both the killing and the target, it's still a very small thing compared to what happens elsewhere daily. Also, I felt like people and medias were terribly quick to take for granted the fact that muslim extremists instigated the attack (which should be the case, but you never know). Anyway, it's really scary for the future. Extremes have already been on the rise for a while, and this will only worsen things.
Wanted to add something : those people are Charlie Hebdo are not anyone. They were known by almost everybody in France, especially Cabu, and some were quite old (Cabu was 70, Charb around 40). For many people in their forties fifties and sixties, those cartoonist accompagnied them through out their youth. Altho Charlie Hebdo lost many support in the last years (many believed the caricature of mohammed were kinda easy) the history of this newspaper is important and glorious in a sense.
Of course that does not make it any worse than the death of some unknown people in a foreign country, but it's easier to feel touched when you know the faces, the tone of voice and the character of the people who died.
I'm especially touched by Marris' death. He was an outstanding economist. I'll talk about him to my students tomorrow for sure.
I feel really bad for the 18 year old kid. Really dumb, and terrible. I hate seeing such young people doing these things because a lot of the times they make a bad decision and are easily manipulated into doing terrible terrible things. He had so much life ahead of him, and I wonder if he was radicalized by the older people
This is insane... how can you become this ? You have to be brainwashed, but they are not super young...
The 18 year old is super young.
I did a lot of stupid stuff when I was 16-18 and I look back now and shake my head. In the end the right people can make someone impressionable do almost anything
Also, I can understand why they would make the names public if they want public aid to get these people, but it being public is also super dangerous. What if they are with people and they see their names are public? Can't end well.
Also, how did they get these names? If they are wrong at all someone might lose their lives to vigilante justice.
This is insane... how can you become this ? You have to be brainwashed, but they are not super young...
The 18 year old is super young.
I did a lot of stupid stuff when I was 16-18 and I look back now and shake my head. In the end the right people can make someone impressionable do almost anything
Also, I can understand why they would make the names public if they want public aid to get these people, but it being public is also super dangerous. What if they are with people and they see their names are public? Can't end well.
Also, how did they get these names? If they are wrong at all someone might lose their lives to vigilante justice.
yeah i agree, how can these names be public? That can only help those 3 guys...
EPT
