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On January 13 2015 18:50 Scorch wrote:In the wake of the recent terrorist attacks, David Cameron proposes outlawing any form of encryption or secure communication that cannot be read by the government. Yes, you read that right. Source
it makes perfect sense. on the way back to London he remembered that he was not Charlie anymore, but David Cameron!
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On January 13 2015 18:55 Makro wrote:[ + Show Spoiler +QUOTE] On January 13 2015 18:27 Boonbag wrote:On January 13 2015 18:19 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 18:03 Boonbag wrote:On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit maybe you miss the point wich was a reference to WWII and the fact we didn't protect the jewish community from beeing deported to nazi camps also, the terrorists targets were certainly not aimed at "french people" like you tend to think but symbols : media - police forces - jews that's basically everything people like Dieudonné bash all day long and what young marginal poor people in the suburbs see as the evil incarnate so yeah as you said you must be pretty stupid. I don't have a problem with Jewish people at all, sorry. Rather I'd like to keep things real, you can privilege one community over another. Jewish people do indeed have their problems but then again, so do a LOT of other minorities in France. So yeah, antisemitism is bad then again so is racism, homophobia and a lot of other things. For the prime minister to blatantly say "I don't care if 100k Spaniards leave but I'll be sad if 100k Jewish people do" does indeed annoy me. I am the last person in France to shit on police forces as well, I have a lot of respect for them actually. I don't spout the "CRS SS" nonsense that so many young people like to do. Nor do I have a problem with Jewish people, as I said before. Nor do I have a problem with Muslims. However I will say that the situation of Israel - Palestine is fucked up. I do have a problem with media, they always give an incomplete picture or biased view. True journalism in France is hard to find, i.e. medias don't just straight up report facts, they present what they want in the light that they want. I view Marine Le Pen as a pig who learned how to talk for instance, yet I am still very annoyed that we don't get to hear her views in a completely impartial manner (e.g. Ruth Elkrief vs Marine Le Pen). Dieudonné gets censored because he says things which are politically incorrect (afaik? I don't know what he talks about, nor do I particularly care). Zemmour is considered trash in France as well but then again how can you consider someone trash when you refuse to listen what he has to say? If it it's not "politically correct" then you aren't allowed to express your views. You even hear people say "I don't read Le Figaro" or "I don't read Le Monde", which blows my fucking mind. Why would you cherry pick the way you obtain your information and the way its presented to you? Are you too stupid to judge things for yourself? Do you need "journalism" to present the information in a way that reflects your political views? Let's be fucking real here, true journalism is as close to impartial as you can get and that is NOT what most French media is. mass medias are commercial entities that earn money over ad and audience also the two journals you mentionned are "opinion press" meaning they present to their audience a point of view over the facts and an interpretation of those, and certainly not "straight facts" as you tend to think if you want pure straight facts just use press agencies as a source of information that way you won't feel it "biaised" as to the jewish community reference you still don't get what the prime minister said he basically says that if 100 000 jewish ppl migrate to israel because they feel insecure in france, that will mean history repeats itself again and that the french gov will again have failed at protecting them like they failed times and times again in the past French gov has a very specific history towards jewish community - Dreyfus case, mass deportation. Keep in mind french gov in WWII willingly offered help to the nazis to find, arrest and send jews to camp without even Hitler having to ask for it, as it was considered an act of good faith back then towards the nazi gov. I wont even comment on the Marine Lepen can't express herself shit, as if you just google it, you'll prolly find TV airing numbers and see she's basically the political person that is going the most on TV and radio since the past two years. Zemmour is considered trash for a very good reason - hes part of a category of showman pretending to be an intellectual while beeing in fact a very uneducated fraud if you want to listen to smart, intelligent ppl, you have plenty of those on the radio like on France Culture Zemmour is the no1 best selling author in france since mid october or something, alongside the ex wife of the current president. So saying nobody listens to him is a bit far streched to say the least. The problem is people need to go fucking educate theirselves and stop listening to people spreading non sense and falsifying history to make editorial money.
again you didn't understand the statement either
it's a symbol
meaning that if we're not able to make the community that was the most targeted and suffered the most from recent history feel safe, history will repeat again
a community of ppl leaves france as they're targeted because they're a community means we fail at protecting communities in our country
spanish ppl feel safe in France and won't have to leave
why ? are we giving them special treatment ?
it's just they're lucky to not bear any stigmate from history
what he meant by "i dont care if 100 000 spanish leave france" was that this is impossible and irrealistic and won't happen
while 100 000 jews leaving for Israel can very well happen and would be the same as losing 100 000 citizens because of terrible events like in the WWII
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Zurich15353 Posts
On January 13 2015 18:50 Scorch wrote:In the wake of the recent terrorist attacks, David Cameron proposes outlawing any form of encryption or secure communication that cannot be read by the government. Yes, you read that right. Source
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to his defense, Cameron never was the brightest communicant
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Holy shit, I laughed pretty hard at this, but at some point I started sobbing, so ridiculous.
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On the positive side, if they actually ban the communications they can't read, you immediately know what they have hacked into yet.
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On January 13 2015 19:33 Simberto wrote:
On the positive side, if they actually ban the communications they can't read, you immediately know what they have hacked into yet.
Yeh, so it's even stupider, terrorists will know hat they should use to be safe.
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On January 13 2015 18:47 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 18:40 Incognoto wrote:
Sadly Boonbag, not everyone will look at papers like the two I mentioned and understand that they're getting a biased view of things. "Mass media" is exactly that, the sources that most people use to inform themselves. I realize it's possible that people don't understand their sources are biased, it can be very subtle.
Those that do understand that they are reading biased journalism (which is an oxymoron, whoops) but also refuse to read the "other side" are dumb fucks as well. You're willingly refusing to hear things which aren't aligned with your own views.
MLP can indeed express herself but as I said before it's not exactly impartial. Hearing and agreeing are different things. Most of the opinion formed in the public sphere isn't scientific nor educated. It's sensationnal. If you want to read serious stuff, you have scholar thesis published and free to access for the vast majority. Researchers books. etc It's like you basically ask a blockbuster action movie to be as serious and informative as a cognitive science research paper. that doesnt make any sense these are different things if you try to find geopolitical answers and facts watching Iron Man in a theatre then it's pretty much your own fault
The problem being that a lot of people will take mainstream media as a legitimate news source when it's not. iTélé, Bfmtv aren't impartial yet they pretend to be.
Of course, it's hilarious that politicians are quick to defend "freedom of speech" and then talk about banning encryption (Cameron, seriously... ?). Or in the case of a French politician who asks Zemmour to leave the country because of a book he wrote. That's some serious freedom of speech right there. I haven't read the book and I don't pretend to agree with its contents, whatever they might be.
I tire of this discussion either way, I do not believe in freedom of speech in France or unbiased views. I grow sick and tired of the government to be perfectly frank. I'm not completely off either:
http://rsf.org/index2014/fr-index2014.php
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On January 13 2015 19:48 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 18:47 Boonbag wrote:On January 13 2015 18:40 Incognoto wrote:
Sadly Boonbag, not everyone will look at papers like the two I mentioned and understand that they're getting a biased view of things. "Mass media" is exactly that, the sources that most people use to inform themselves. I realize it's possible that people don't understand their sources are biased, it can be very subtle.
Those that do understand that they are reading biased journalism (which is an oxymoron, whoops) but also refuse to read the "other side" are dumb fucks as well. You're willingly refusing to hear things which aren't aligned with your own views.
MLP can indeed express herself but as I said before it's not exactly impartial. Hearing and agreeing are different things. Most of the opinion formed in the public sphere isn't scientific nor educated. It's sensationnal. If you want to read serious stuff, you have scholar thesis published and free to access for the vast majority. Researchers books. etc It's like you basically ask a blockbuster action movie to be as serious and informative as a cognitive science research paper. that doesnt make any sense these are different things if you try to find geopolitical answers and facts watching Iron Man in a theatre then it's pretty much your own fault The problem being that a lot of people will take mainstream media as a legitimate news source when it's not. iTélé, Bfmtv aren't impartial yet they pretend to be. Of course, it's hilarious that politicians are quick to defend "freedom of speech" and then talk about banning encryption (Cameron, seriously... ?). Or in the case of a French politician who asks Zemmour to leave the country because of a book he wrote. That's some serious freedom of speech right there. I haven't read the book and I don't pretend to agree with its contents, whatever they might be. I tire of this discussion either way, I do not believe in freedom of speech in France or unbiased views. I grow sick and tired of the government to be perfectly frank. I'm not completely off either: http://rsf.org/index2014/fr-index2014.php
mb if you do not believe in freedom of speech you should try and go live in Iran, Nk or even China and see what happens there
all you say about Zemmour is laughable as he orchestrated himself all this to make his sales rise
he is working for half the medias of the country and his books are best sellers
how on earth is that restraining him from his freedom of speech ?
what people are saying about him is that he should leave this country he pretty much knows nothing about and quit spreading false and toxic ideas
edit : lol the link you posted actually contradicts what you just said
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On January 13 2015 17:59 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 17:45 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:33 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit i dont think valls's statement made a ton of sense, but it doesn't justify getting angry at him for trying to comfort the jewish population at a time of great anxiety. It does when you take a shit on the rest of the non-Jewish population. Let's also be serious here, what's going on in Israel and Palestine is not only fucking stupid, it's disgusting. Someone please remind me again why that war is going on? I keep forgetting where Israel gets the money to pay for all their shiny American military equipment. Read up a bit, indeed the kosher market was targeted because it was a Jewish establishment. The terrorist in question justified his actions by saying that Muslims weren't being left alone. Mali and Syria. "The Islamic state is being attacked.", "they are unveiling our women" and "our brothers are going to jail for nothing". Of course the attacks aren't justified, then again it's hard to ignore the general Western contempt for Muslims. The West is indeed invading a lot of Islamic states, so why would it be surprising for them to try to get back at us? I don't condone the attacks but at very least I know why they took place. Of course, let's be real here, Hell will freeze over before someone ever listens to a Muslim protesting peacefully. yesterday I came across this superb tweet from Max Strasser, associate editor of Foreign Policy. the french <3 Awesome, restores my faith in this community <3
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On January 13 2015 20:42 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 17:59 Doublemint wrote:On January 13 2015 17:45 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:33 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit i dont think valls's statement made a ton of sense, but it doesn't justify getting angry at him for trying to comfort the jewish population at a time of great anxiety. It does when you take a shit on the rest of the non-Jewish population. Let's also be serious here, what's going on in Israel and Palestine is not only fucking stupid, it's disgusting. Someone please remind me again why that war is going on? I keep forgetting where Israel gets the money to pay for all their shiny American military equipment. Read up a bit, indeed the kosher market was targeted because it was a Jewish establishment. The terrorist in question justified his actions by saying that Muslims weren't being left alone. Mali and Syria. "The Islamic state is being attacked.", "they are unveiling our women" and "our brothers are going to jail for nothing". Of course the attacks aren't justified, then again it's hard to ignore the general Western contempt for Muslims. The West is indeed invading a lot of Islamic states, so why would it be surprising for them to try to get back at us? I don't condone the attacks but at very least I know why they took place. Of course, let's be real here, Hell will freeze over before someone ever listens to a Muslim protesting peacefully. https://twitter.com/maxstrasser/status/554625958196830208yesterday I came across this superb tweet from Max Strasser, associate editor of Foreign Policy. the french <3 Awesome, restores my faith in this community <3
This is actually awesome, did not expect that, but I'm glad I was wrong!
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
hahhaha, as if people didn't need more reasons to vote ukip over the conservatives
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Shots fired is putting it very lightly. This is a tradgedy but people saying "I'm Charlie Hebdo" are kidding themselves. CH were a left wing satirical publication kicking ALL ways. Even down, and not many people can possibly say they fit into that category.
It's both brave and stupid and not many people would dare that.
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On January 13 2015 18:57 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 18:55 Makro wrote:[ + Show Spoiler +QUOTE] On January 13 2015 18:27 Boonbag wrote:On January 13 2015 18:19 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 18:03 Boonbag wrote:On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit maybe you miss the point wich was a reference to WWII and the fact we didn't protect the jewish community from beeing deported to nazi camps also, the terrorists targets were certainly not aimed at "french people" like you tend to think but symbols : media - police forces - jews that's basically everything people like Dieudonné bash all day long and what young marginal poor people in the suburbs see as the evil incarnate so yeah as you said you must be pretty stupid. I don't have a problem with Jewish people at all, sorry. Rather I'd like to keep things real, you can privilege one community over another. Jewish people do indeed have their problems but then again, so do a LOT of other minorities in France. So yeah, antisemitism is bad then again so is racism, homophobia and a lot of other things. For the prime minister to blatantly say "I don't care if 100k Spaniards leave but I'll be sad if 100k Jewish people do" does indeed annoy me. I am the last person in France to shit on police forces as well, I have a lot of respect for them actually. I don't spout the "CRS SS" nonsense that so many young people like to do. Nor do I have a problem with Jewish people, as I said before. Nor do I have a problem with Muslims. However I will say that the situation of Israel - Palestine is fucked up. I do have a problem with media, they always give an incomplete picture or biased view. True journalism in France is hard to find, i.e. medias don't just straight up report facts, they present what they want in the light that they want. I view Marine Le Pen as a pig who learned how to talk for instance, yet I am still very annoyed that we don't get to hear her views in a completely impartial manner (e.g. Ruth Elkrief vs Marine Le Pen). Dieudonné gets censored because he says things which are politically incorrect (afaik? I don't know what he talks about, nor do I particularly care). Zemmour is considered trash in France as well but then again how can you consider someone trash when you refuse to listen what he has to say? If it it's not "politically correct" then you aren't allowed to express your views. You even hear people say "I don't read Le Figaro" or "I don't read Le Monde", which blows my fucking mind. Why would you cherry pick the way you obtain your information and the way its presented to you? Are you too stupid to judge things for yourself? Do you need "journalism" to present the information in a way that reflects your political views? Let's be fucking real here, true journalism is as close to impartial as you can get and that is NOT what most French media is. mass medias are commercial entities that earn money over ad and audience also the two journals you mentionned are "opinion press" meaning they present to their audience a point of view over the facts and an interpretation of those, and certainly not "straight facts" as you tend to think if you want pure straight facts just use press agencies as a source of information that way you won't feel it "biaised" as to the jewish community reference you still don't get what the prime minister said he basically says that if 100 000 jewish ppl migrate to israel because they feel insecure in france, that will mean history repeats itself again and that the french gov will again have failed at protecting them like they failed times and times again in the past French gov has a very specific history towards jewish community - Dreyfus case, mass deportation. Keep in mind french gov in WWII willingly offered help to the nazis to find, arrest and send jews to camp without even Hitler having to ask for it, as it was considered an act of good faith back then towards the nazi gov. I wont even comment on the Marine Lepen can't express herself shit, as if you just google it, you'll prolly find TV airing numbers and see she's basically the political person that is going the most on TV and radio since the past two years. Zemmour is considered trash for a very good reason - hes part of a category of showman pretending to be an intellectual while beeing in fact a very uneducated fraud if you want to listen to smart, intelligent ppl, you have plenty of those on the radio like on France Culture Zemmour is the no1 best selling author in france since mid october or something, alongside the ex wife of the current president. So saying nobody listens to him is a bit far streched to say the least. The problem is people need to go fucking educate theirselves and stop listening to people spreading non sense and falsifying history to make editorial money. again you didn't understand the statement either it's a symbol meaning that if we're not able to make the community that was the most targeted and suffered the most from recent history feel safe, history will repeat again a community of ppl leaves france as they're targeted because they're a community means we fail at protecting communities in our country spanish ppl feel safe in France and won't have to leave why ? are we giving them special treatment ? it's just they're lucky to not bear any stigmate from history what he meant by "i dont care if 100 000 spanish leave france" was that this is impossible and irrealistic and won't happen while 100 000 jews leaving for Israel can very well happen and would be the same as losing 100 000 citizens because of terrible events like in the WWII
You're the one who didn't understand their point : it's also a symbol to reaffirm the national unity. A jew dying is a tragic event, but it's first and foremost a french dying, a brother (fraternité), a Citizen : when a french jew is attacked, the muslim community should also feel attacked, which is not the case if you differenciate the two (it's the same process applied with social security or school : creating distinctions eventually lead to distinguished systems, with school and hospitals for jewish and muslim).
Putting the jewish community on a pedestale only create friction between communities that feel like the republic is not treating its Citizen equally.
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On January 13 2015 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 18:57 Boonbag wrote:On January 13 2015 18:55 Makro wrote:[ + Show Spoiler +QUOTE] On January 13 2015 18:27 Boonbag wrote:On January 13 2015 18:19 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 18:03 Boonbag wrote:On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit maybe you miss the point wich was a reference to WWII and the fact we didn't protect the jewish community from beeing deported to nazi camps also, the terrorists targets were certainly not aimed at "french people" like you tend to think but symbols : media - police forces - jews that's basically everything people like Dieudonné bash all day long and what young marginal poor people in the suburbs see as the evil incarnate so yeah as you said you must be pretty stupid. I don't have a problem with Jewish people at all, sorry. Rather I'd like to keep things real, you can privilege one community over another. Jewish people do indeed have their problems but then again, so do a LOT of other minorities in France. So yeah, antisemitism is bad then again so is racism, homophobia and a lot of other things. For the prime minister to blatantly say "I don't care if 100k Spaniards leave but I'll be sad if 100k Jewish people do" does indeed annoy me. I am the last person in France to shit on police forces as well, I have a lot of respect for them actually. I don't spout the "CRS SS" nonsense that so many young people like to do. Nor do I have a problem with Jewish people, as I said before. Nor do I have a problem with Muslims. However I will say that the situation of Israel - Palestine is fucked up. I do have a problem with media, they always give an incomplete picture or biased view. True journalism in France is hard to find, i.e. medias don't just straight up report facts, they present what they want in the light that they want. I view Marine Le Pen as a pig who learned how to talk for instance, yet I am still very annoyed that we don't get to hear her views in a completely impartial manner (e.g. Ruth Elkrief vs Marine Le Pen). Dieudonné gets censored because he says things which are politically incorrect (afaik? I don't know what he talks about, nor do I particularly care). Zemmour is considered trash in France as well but then again how can you consider someone trash when you refuse to listen what he has to say? If it it's not "politically correct" then you aren't allowed to express your views. You even hear people say "I don't read Le Figaro" or "I don't read Le Monde", which blows my fucking mind. Why would you cherry pick the way you obtain your information and the way its presented to you? Are you too stupid to judge things for yourself? Do you need "journalism" to present the information in a way that reflects your political views? Let's be fucking real here, true journalism is as close to impartial as you can get and that is NOT what most French media is. mass medias are commercial entities that earn money over ad and audience also the two journals you mentionned are "opinion press" meaning they present to their audience a point of view over the facts and an interpretation of those, and certainly not "straight facts" as you tend to think if you want pure straight facts just use press agencies as a source of information that way you won't feel it "biaised" as to the jewish community reference you still don't get what the prime minister said he basically says that if 100 000 jewish ppl migrate to israel because they feel insecure in france, that will mean history repeats itself again and that the french gov will again have failed at protecting them like they failed times and times again in the past French gov has a very specific history towards jewish community - Dreyfus case, mass deportation. Keep in mind french gov in WWII willingly offered help to the nazis to find, arrest and send jews to camp without even Hitler having to ask for it, as it was considered an act of good faith back then towards the nazi gov. I wont even comment on the Marine Lepen can't express herself shit, as if you just google it, you'll prolly find TV airing numbers and see she's basically the political person that is going the most on TV and radio since the past two years. Zemmour is considered trash for a very good reason - hes part of a category of showman pretending to be an intellectual while beeing in fact a very uneducated fraud if you want to listen to smart, intelligent ppl, you have plenty of those on the radio like on France Culture Zemmour is the no1 best selling author in france since mid october or something, alongside the ex wife of the current president. So saying nobody listens to him is a bit far streched to say the least. The problem is people need to go fucking educate theirselves and stop listening to people spreading non sense and falsifying history to make editorial money. again you didn't understand the statement either it's a symbol meaning that if we're not able to make the community that was the most targeted and suffered the most from recent history feel safe, history will repeat again a community of ppl leaves france as they're targeted because they're a community means we fail at protecting communities in our country spanish ppl feel safe in France and won't have to leave why ? are we giving them special treatment ? it's just they're lucky to not bear any stigmate from history what he meant by "i dont care if 100 000 spanish leave france" was that this is impossible and irrealistic and won't happen while 100 000 jews leaving for Israel can very well happen and would be the same as losing 100 000 citizens because of terrible events like in the WWII You're the one who didn't understand their point : it's also a symbol to reaffirm the national unity. A jew dying is a tragic event, but it's first and foremost a french dying, a brother (fraternité), a Citizen : when a french jew is attacked, the muslim community should also feel attacked, which is not the case if you differenciate the two (it's the same process applied with social security or school : creating distinctions eventually lead to distinguished systems, with school and hospitals for jewish and muslim). Putting the jewish community on a pedestale only create friction between communities that feel like the republic is not treating its Citizen equally.
country is covered by churches and private catholic institutes ranging from elementary school up to law schools so your argument is pretty void
and you still miss the point of the prime minister's statement
negating particularisms and origins is wrong
confession, nationality, citizenship have nothing in common and aren't diluated within a the idea of "nation"
what you just wrote is basically the definition of nationalism and certainly not brotherhood
i dont care if a french dies, i care a human beeing dies
and i care about the reason that got him killed
in that case beeing branded as a jew
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On January 13 2015 22:18 SamuelGreen wrote:
Shots fired is putting it very lightly. This is a tradgedy but people saying "I'm Charlie Hebdo" are kidding themselves. CH were a left wing satirical publication kicking ALL ways. Even down, and not many people can possibly say they fit into that category.
It's both brave and stupid and not many people would dare that.
Because at the time this thread was created it was only "shots fired". We didn't know what happened.
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On January 13 2015 18:55 Makro wrote:+ Show Spoiler +QUOTE] On January 13 2015 18:27 Boonbag wrote:On January 13 2015 18:19 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 18:03 Boonbag wrote:On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit maybe you miss the point wich was a reference to WWII and the fact we didn't protect the jewish community from beeing deported to nazi camps also, the terrorists targets were certainly not aimed at "french people" like you tend to think but symbols : media - police forces - jews that's basically everything people like Dieudonné bash all day long and what young marginal poor people in the suburbs see as the evil incarnate so yeah as you said you must be pretty stupid I don't have a problem with Jewish people at all, sorry. Rather I'd like to keep things real, you can privilege one community over another. Jewish people do indeed have their problems but then again, so do a LOT of other minorities in France. So yeah, antisemitism is bad then again so is racism, homophobia and a lot of other things. For the prime minister to blatantly say "I don't care if 100k Spaniards leave but I'll be sad if 100k Jewish people do" does indeed annoy me. I am the last person in France to shit on police forces as well, I have a lot of respect for them actually. I don't spout the "CRS SS" nonsense that so many young people like to do. Nor do I have a problem with Jewish people, as I said before. Nor do I have a problem with Muslims. However I will say that the situation of Israel - Palestine is fucked up. I do have a problem with media, they always give an incomplete picture or biased view. True journalism in France is hard to find, i.e. medias don't just straight up report facts, they present what they want in the light that they want. I view Marine Le Pen as a pig who learned how to talk for instance, yet I am still very annoyed that we don't get to hear her views in a completely impartial manner (e.g. Ruth Elkrief vs Marine Le Pen). Dieudonné gets censored because he says things which are politically incorrect (afaik? I don't know what he talks about, nor do I particularly care). Zemmour is considered trash in France as well but then again how can you consider someone trash when you refuse to listen what he has to say? If it it's not "politically correct" then you aren't allowed to express your views. You even hear people say "I don't read Le Figaro" or "I don't read Le Monde", which blows my fucking mind. Why would you cherry pick the way you obtain your information and the way its presented to you? Are you too stupid to judge things for yourself? Do you need "journalism" to present the information in a way that reflects your political views? Let's be fucking real here, true journalism is as close to impartial as you can get and that is NOT what most French media is. mass medias are commercial entities that earn money over ad and audience also the two journals you mentionned are "opinion press" meaning they present to their audience a point of view over the facts and an interpretation of those, and certainly not "straight facts" as you tend to think if you want pure straight facts just use press agencies as a source of information that way you won't feel it "biaised" as to the jewish community reference you still don't get what the prime minister said he basically says that if 100 000 jewish ppl migrate to israel because they feel insecure in france, that will mean history repeats itself again and that the french gov will again have failed at protecting them like they failed times and times again in the past French gov has a very specific history towards jewish community - Dreyfus case, mass deportation. Keep in mind french gov in WWII willingly offered help to the nazis to find, arrest and send jews to camp without even Hitler having to ask for it, as it was considered an act of good faith back then towards the nazi gov. I wont even comment on the Marine Lepen can't express herself shit, as if you just google it, you'll prolly find TV airing numbers and see she's basically the political person that is going the most on TV and radio since the past two years. Zemmour is considered trash for a very good reason - hes part of a category of showman pretending to be an intellectual while beeing in fact a very uneducated fraud if you want to listen to smart, intelligent ppl, you have plenty of those on the radio like on France Culture Zemmour is the no1 best selling author in france since mid october or something, alongside the ex wife of the current president. So saying nobody listens to him is a bit far streched to say the least. The problem is people need to go fucking educate theirselves and stop listening to people spreading non sense and falsifying history to make editorial money. the statement of the prime minister is still wrong and extremely insulting every french that leave france because of insecurity, jewish or not, should be considered as an inner failure of the republic and historical fact, even if they are true and have to be acknowledged, shouldn't be used this way to make a group of people more important than the rest, because you basically create a profond division into the population everyone should be regarded as the same
Netanyahu is a right-wing nationalist that happily pushes aside any piece of international regulation that does not let him do what he wants to Palestinian territory, and gets away with it. I don't know why people expected anything different from him.
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On January 13 2015 23:14 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 18:55 Makro wrote:+ Show Spoiler +QUOTE] On January 13 2015 18:27 Boonbag wrote:On January 13 2015 18:19 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 18:03 Boonbag wrote:On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit maybe you miss the point wich was a reference to WWII and the fact we didn't protect the jewish community from beeing deported to nazi camps also, the terrorists targets were certainly not aimed at "french people" like you tend to think but symbols : media - police forces - jews that's basically everything people like Dieudonné bash all day long and what young marginal poor people in the suburbs see as the evil incarnate so yeah as you said you must be pretty stupid I don't have a problem with Jewish people at all, sorry. Rather I'd like to keep things real, you can privilege one community over another. Jewish people do indeed have their problems but then again, so do a LOT of other minorities in France. So yeah, antisemitism is bad then again so is racism, homophobia and a lot of other things. For the prime minister to blatantly say "I don't care if 100k Spaniards leave but I'll be sad if 100k Jewish people do" does indeed annoy me. I am the last person in France to shit on police forces as well, I have a lot of respect for them actually. I don't spout the "CRS SS" nonsense that so many young people like to do. Nor do I have a problem with Jewish people, as I said before. Nor do I have a problem with Muslims. However I will say that the situation of Israel - Palestine is fucked up. I do have a problem with media, they always give an incomplete picture or biased view. True journalism in France is hard to find, i.e. medias don't just straight up report facts, they present what they want in the light that they want. I view Marine Le Pen as a pig who learned how to talk for instance, yet I am still very annoyed that we don't get to hear her views in a completely impartial manner (e.g. Ruth Elkrief vs Marine Le Pen). Dieudonné gets censored because he says things which are politically incorrect (afaik? I don't know what he talks about, nor do I particularly care). Zemmour is considered trash in France as well but then again how can you consider someone trash when you refuse to listen what he has to say? If it it's not "politically correct" then you aren't allowed to express your views. You even hear people say "I don't read Le Figaro" or "I don't read Le Monde", which blows my fucking mind. Why would you cherry pick the way you obtain your information and the way its presented to you? Are you too stupid to judge things for yourself? Do you need "journalism" to present the information in a way that reflects your political views? Let's be fucking real here, true journalism is as close to impartial as you can get and that is NOT what most French media is. mass medias are commercial entities that earn money over ad and audience also the two journals you mentionned are "opinion press" meaning they present to their audience a point of view over the facts and an interpretation of those, and certainly not "straight facts" as you tend to think if you want pure straight facts just use press agencies as a source of information that way you won't feel it "biaised" as to the jewish community reference you still don't get what the prime minister said he basically says that if 100 000 jewish ppl migrate to israel because they feel insecure in france, that will mean history repeats itself again and that the french gov will again have failed at protecting them like they failed times and times again in the past French gov has a very specific history towards jewish community - Dreyfus case, mass deportation. Keep in mind french gov in WWII willingly offered help to the nazis to find, arrest and send jews to camp without even Hitler having to ask for it, as it was considered an act of good faith back then towards the nazi gov. I wont even comment on the Marine Lepen can't express herself shit, as if you just google it, you'll prolly find TV airing numbers and see she's basically the political person that is going the most on TV and radio since the past two years. Zemmour is considered trash for a very good reason - hes part of a category of showman pretending to be an intellectual while beeing in fact a very uneducated fraud if you want to listen to smart, intelligent ppl, you have plenty of those on the radio like on France Culture Zemmour is the no1 best selling author in france since mid october or something, alongside the ex wife of the current president. So saying nobody listens to him is a bit far streched to say the least. The problem is people need to go fucking educate theirselves and stop listening to people spreading non sense and falsifying history to make editorial money. the statement of the prime minister is still wrong and extremely insulting every french that leave france because of insecurity, jewish or not, should be considered as an inner failure of the republic and historical fact, even if they are true and have to be acknowledged, shouldn't be used this way to make a group of people more important than the rest, because you basically create a profond division into the population everyone should be regarded as the same Netanyahu is a right-wing nationalist that happily pushes aside any piece of international regulation that does not let him do what he wants to Palestinian territory, and gets away with it. I don't know why people expected anything different from him.
not only him back then they already wrote a letter to hitler telling him he was right about jews not belonging to germany and that he should send them to israel to wich hitler replied something like "im coming for you next"
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I just totally lost the train of this discussion, my apologies. I don't understand the last two posts in the context they're in at the moment.
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EPT
