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Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.”
I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something?
Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France?
Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish?
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On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish?
Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France.
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On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France.
ahh I see
this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit
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On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit
i dont think valls's statement made a ton of sense, but it doesn't justify getting angry at him for trying to comfort the jewish population at a time of great anxiety.
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On January 13 2015 17:33 KingofdaHipHop wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit i dont think valls's statement made a ton of sense, but it doesn't justify getting angry at him for trying to comfort the jewish population at a time of great anxiety.
It does when you take a shit on the rest of the non-Jewish population. Let's also be serious here, what's going on in Israel and Palestine is not only fucking stupid, it's disgusting. Someone please remind me again why that war is going on? I keep forgetting where Israel gets the money to pay for all their shiny American military equipment.
Read up a bit, indeed the kosher market was targeted because it was a Jewish establishment. The terrorist in question justified his actions by saying that Muslims weren't being left alone. Mali and Syria. "The Islamic state is being attacked.", "they are unveiling our women" and "our brothers are going to jail for nothing". Of course the attacks aren't justified, then again it's hard to ignore the general Western contempt for Muslims.
The West is indeed invading a lot of Islamic states, so why would it be surprising for them to try to get back at us? I don't condone the attacks but at very least I know why they took place. Of course, let's be real here, Hell will freeze over before someone ever listens to a Muslim protesting peacefully.
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On January 13 2015 17:45 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 17:33 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit i dont think valls's statement made a ton of sense, but it doesn't justify getting angry at him for trying to comfort the jewish population at a time of great anxiety. It does when you take a shit on the rest of the non-Jewish population. Let's also be serious here, what's going on in Israel and Palestine is not only fucking stupid, it's disgusting. Someone please remind me again why that war is going on? I keep forgetting where Israel gets the money to pay for all their shiny American military equipment.
The Jews in France are not part of Israel, so i don't know why you would bring that up.
But I don't agree with focusing on the Jewish victims. While it is important to make the Jewish population feel safe in France, you are just making Jews more of a target by separating them from the other victims.
Muslims, Christians, Jews, non-religious people etc. - it shouldn't matter, they are all French and it is an attack on France and the French people.
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The west has invaded 2 states Iraq and Afghanistan and both of those want western help against jihadists. It's not muslims trying to get back at us it's the jihadists who are making a mess of their own countries.
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On January 13 2015 17:52 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 17:45 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:33 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit i dont think valls's statement made a ton of sense, but it doesn't justify getting angry at him for trying to comfort the jewish population at a time of great anxiety. It does when you take a shit on the rest of the non-Jewish population. Let's also be serious here, what's going on in Israel and Palestine is not only fucking stupid, it's disgusting. Someone please remind me again why that war is going on? I keep forgetting where Israel gets the money to pay for all their shiny American military equipment. The Jews in France are not part of Israel, so i don't know why you would bring that up.
Israel at least partly played a role in motivating the terrorists to act the way they did, ignoring the reasons they acted would be dumb.
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On January 13 2015 17:55 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 17:52 Maenander wrote:On January 13 2015 17:45 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:33 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit i dont think valls's statement made a ton of sense, but it doesn't justify getting angry at him for trying to comfort the jewish population at a time of great anxiety. It does when you take a shit on the rest of the non-Jewish population. Let's also be serious here, what's going on in Israel and Palestine is not only fucking stupid, it's disgusting. Someone please remind me again why that war is going on? I keep forgetting where Israel gets the money to pay for all their shiny American military equipment. The Jews in France are not part of Israel, so i don't know why you would bring that up. Israel at least partly played a role in motivating the terrorists to act the way they did, ignoring the reasons they acted would be dumb.
Accepting their reasons would be even dumber.
Jews living in other countries chose not to move to Israel, a decision that should be applauded by those who are against Israel (like islamists). By attacking them Israel grows even stronger, Netanjahu is already hoping for immigrants from France, who of course wouldn't be one bit safer in Israel.
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On January 13 2015 17:45 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 17:33 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit i dont think valls's statement made a ton of sense, but it doesn't justify getting angry at him for trying to comfort the jewish population at a time of great anxiety. It does when you take a shit on the rest of the non-Jewish population. Let's also be serious here, what's going on in Israel and Palestine is not only fucking stupid, it's disgusting. Someone please remind me again why that war is going on? I keep forgetting where Israel gets the money to pay for all their shiny American military equipment. Read up a bit, indeed the kosher market was targeted because it was a Jewish establishment. The terrorist in question justified his actions by saying that Muslims weren't being left alone. Mali and Syria. "The Islamic state is being attacked.", "they are unveiling our women" and "our brothers are going to jail for nothing". Of course the attacks aren't justified, then again it's hard to ignore the general Western contempt for Muslims. The West is indeed invading a lot of Islamic states, so why would it be surprising for them to try to get back at us? I don't condone the attacks but at very least I know why they took place. Of course, let's be real here, Hell will freeze over before someone ever listens to a Muslim protesting peacefully.
yesterday I came across this superb tweet from Max Strasser, associate editor of Foreign Policy.
the french <3
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On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit
maybe you miss the point wich was a reference to WWII and the fact we didn't protect the jewish community from beeing deported to nazi camps
also, the terrorists targets were certainly not aimed at "french people" like you tend to think but symbols :
media - police forces - jews
that's basically everything people like Dieudonné bash all day long and what young marginal poor people in the suburbs see as the evil incarnate
so yeah as you said you must be pretty stupid
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Do we have informations on the 4th people yet ? The one that shot the jogger ?
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On January 13 2015 18:03 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit maybe you miss the point wich was a reference to WWII and the fact we didn't protect the jewish community from beeing deported to nazi camps also, the terrorists targets were certainly not aimed at "french people" like you tend to think but symbols : media - police forces - jews that's basically everything people like Dieudonné bash all day long and what young marginal poor people in the suburbs see as the evil incarnate so yeah as you said you must be pretty stupid
I don't have a problem with Jewish people at all, sorry. Rather I'd like to keep things real, you can't privilege one community over another. Jewish people do indeed have their problems but then again, so do a LOT of other minorities in France. So yeah, antisemitism is bad then again so is racism, homophobia and a lot of other things. For the prime minister to blatantly say "I don't care if 100k Spaniards leave but I'll be sad if 100k Jewish people do" does indeed annoy me.
I am the last person in France to shit on police forces as well, I have a lot of respect for them actually. I don't spout the "CRS SS" nonsense that so many young people like to do. Nor do I have a problem with Jewish people, as I said before. Nor do I have a problem with Muslims. However I will say that the situation of Israel - Palestine is fucked up.
I do have a problem with media, they always give an incomplete picture or biased view. True journalism in France is hard to find, i.e. medias don't just straight up report facts, they present what they want in the light that they want. I view Marine Le Pen as a pig who learned how to talk for instance, yet I am still very annoyed that we don't get to hear her views in a completely impartial manner (e.g. Ruth Elkrief vs Marine Le Pen). Dieudonné gets censored because he says things which are politically incorrect (afaik? I don't know what he talks about, nor do I particularly care). Zemmour is considered trash in France as well but then again how can you consider someone trash when you refuse to listen what he has to say? If it it's not "politically correct" then you aren't allowed to express your views.
You even hear people say "I don't read Le Figaro" or "I don't read Le Monde", which blows my fucking mind. Why would you cherry pick the way you obtain your information and the way its presented to you? Are you too stupid to judge things for yourself? Do you need "journalism" to present the information in a way that reflects your political views? Let's be fucking real here, true journalism is as close to impartial as you can get and that is NOT what most French media is.
On January 13 2015 17:57 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 17:55 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:52 Maenander wrote:On January 13 2015 17:45 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:33 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit i dont think valls's statement made a ton of sense, but it doesn't justify getting angry at him for trying to comfort the jewish population at a time of great anxiety. It does when you take a shit on the rest of the non-Jewish population. Let's also be serious here, what's going on in Israel and Palestine is not only fucking stupid, it's disgusting. Someone please remind me again why that war is going on? I keep forgetting where Israel gets the money to pay for all their shiny American military equipment. The Jews in France are not part of Israel, so i don't know why you would bring that up. Israel at least partly played a role in motivating the terrorists to act the way they did, ignoring the reasons they acted would be dumb. Accepting their reasons would be even dumber. Jews living in other countries chose not to move to Israel, a decision that should be applauded by those who are against Israel (like islamists). By attacking them Israel grows even stronger, Netanjahu is already hoping for immigrants from France, who of course wouldn't be one bit safer in Israel.
It's not about accepting the reason or not, it's about knowing the reason. Blatantly ignoring why they acted that way doesn't solve anything. Blatantly saying "X isn't a problem because the person who has a problem with X killed people to draw attention to it, examining X to see if something is indeed wrong should not be done". It's a very simple way to see things, indeed. However it can't be ignored. If you're prepared to massacre people and then commit suicide for something, chances are you're not complaining about the color of your grandmother's slippers.
I don't think that any of the supposed problems are actually problems at all, however this is because I thought about the problems myself; I didn't dismiss them because they triggered a terrorist attack.
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On January 13 2015 17:53 RvB wrote:
The west has invaded 2 states Iraq and Afghanistan and both of those want western help against jihadists. It's not muslims trying to get back at us it's the jihadists who are making a mess of their own countries.
its not "their own countries"
these ppl are military groups that were trained and armed by the west intelligence services at different times in recent history and are now backed up by oil money and strong enough to conquer and occupy larger parts of the said territories
their growth in time is tied to the financial crisis in the west
west made choices as to overthrow the whole old tyranic order that was reigning over arab countries since decades and wasn't fully prepared to control the aftermath and now there's a huge mess
i believe if the financial crisis didn''t happen US troops would still be over there in Irak and ISIS wouldn't have ever happened
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On January 13 2015 18:19 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 18:03 Boonbag wrote:On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit maybe you miss the point wich was a reference to WWII and the fact we didn't protect the jewish community from beeing deported to nazi camps also, the terrorists targets were certainly not aimed at "french people" like you tend to think but symbols : media - police forces - jews that's basically everything people like Dieudonné bash all day long and what young marginal poor people in the suburbs see as the evil incarnate so yeah as you said you must be pretty stupid I don't have a problem with Jewish people at all, sorry. Rather I'd like to keep things real, you can privilege one community over another. Jewish people do indeed have their problems but then again, so do a LOT of other minorities in France. So yeah, antisemitism is bad then again so is racism, homophobia and a lot of other things. For the prime minister to blatantly say "I don't care if 100k Spaniards leave but I'll be sad if 100k Jewish people do" does indeed annoy me. I am the last person in France to shit on police forces as well, I have a lot of respect for them actually. I don't spout the "CRS SS" nonsense that so many young people like to do. Nor do I have a problem with Jewish people, as I said before. Nor do I have a problem with Muslims. However I will say that the situation of Israel - Palestine is fucked up. I do have a problem with media, they always give an incomplete picture or biased view. True journalism in France is hard to find, i.e. medias don't just straight up report facts, they present what they want in the light that they want. I view Marine Le Pen as a pig who learned how to talk for instance, yet I am still very annoyed that we don't get to hear her views in a completely impartial manner (e.g. Ruth Elkrief vs Marine Le Pen). Dieudonné gets censored because he says things which are politically incorrect (afaik? I don't know what he talks about, nor do I particularly care). Zemmour is considered trash in France as well but then again how can you consider someone trash when you refuse to listen what he has to say? If it it's not "politically correct" then you aren't allowed to express your views. You even hear people say "I don't read Le Figaro" or "I don't read Le Monde", which blows my fucking mind. Why would you cherry pick the way you obtain your information and the way its presented to you? Are you too stupid to judge things for yourself? Do you need "journalism" to present the information in a way that reflects your political views? Let's be fucking real here, true journalism is as close to impartial as you can get and that is NOT what most French media is.
mass medias are commercial entities that earn money over ad and audience
also the two journals you mentionned are "opinion press" meaning they present to their audience a point of view over the facts and an interpretation of those, and certainly not "straight facts" as you tend to think
if you want pure straight facts just use press agencies as a source of information
that way you won't feel it "biaised"
as to the jewish community reference you still don't get what the prime minister said
he basically says that if 100 000 jewish ppl migrate to israel because they feel insecure in france, that will mean history repeats itself again and that the french gov will again have failed at protecting them like they failed times and times again in the past
French gov has a very specific history towards jewish community - Dreyfus case, mass deportation. Keep in mind french gov in WWII willingly offered help to the nazis to find, arrest and send jews to camp without even Hitler having to ask for it, as it was considered an act of good faith back then towards the nazi gov.
I wont even comment on the Marine Lepen can't express herself shit, as if you just google it, you'll prolly find TV airing numbers and see she's basically the political person that is going the most on TV and radio since the past two years.
Zemmour is considered trash for a very good reason - hes part of a category of showman pretending to be an intellectual while beeing in fact a very uneducated fraud
if you want to listen to smart, intelligent ppl, you have plenty of those on the radio like on France Culture
Zemmour is the no1 best selling author in france since mid october or something, alongside the ex wife of the current president.
So saying nobody listens to him is a bit far streched to say the least.
The problem is people need to go fucking educate theirselves and stop listening to people spreading non sense and falsifying history to make editorial money.
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Sadly Boonbag, not everyone will look at papers like the two I mentioned and understand that they're getting a biased view of things. "Mass media" is exactly that, the sources that most people use to inform themselves. I realize it's possible that people don't understand their sources are biased, it can be very subtle.
Those that do understand that they are reading biased journalism (which is an oxymoron, whoops) but also refuse to read the "other side" are dumb fucks as well. You're willingly refusing to hear things which aren't aligned with your own views.
MLP can indeed express herself but as I said before it's not exactly impartial.
The problem is people need to go fucking educate theirselves and stop listening to people spreading non sense and falsifying history to make editorial money.
I don't understand this, I thought that you were saying that French media was impartial and on point?
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On January 13 2015 18:40 Incognoto wrote:
Sadly Boonbag, not everyone will look at papers like the two I mentioned and understand that they're getting a biased view of things. "Mass media" is exactly that, the sources that most people use to inform themselves. I realize it's possible that people don't understand their sources are biased, it can be very subtle.
Those that do understand that they are reading biased journalism (which is an oxymoron, whoops) but also refuse to read the "other side" are dumb fucks as well. You're willingly refusing to hear things which aren't aligned with your own views.
MLP can indeed express herself but as I said before it's not exactly impartial.
Hearing and agreeing are different things. Most of the opinion formed in the public sphere isn't scientific nor educated. It's sensationnal. If you want to read serious stuff, you have scholar thesis published and free to access for the vast majority. Researchers books. etc
It's like you basically ask a blockbuster action movie to be as serious and informative as a cognitive science research paper.
that doesnt make any sense these are different things
if you try to find geopolitical answers and facts watching Iron Man in a theatre then it's pretty much your own fault
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In the wake of the recent terrorist attacks, David Cameron proposes outlawing any form of encryption or secure communication that cannot be read by the government. Yes, you read that right.
Source
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On January 13 2015 18:50 Scorch wrote:In the wake of the recent terrorist attacks, David Cameron proposes outlawing any form of encryption or secure communication that cannot be read by the government. Yes, you read that right. Source
that doesn't make much sense whatsoever
encryption didn't kill 17 persons last week in Paris
what they need to do is get rid of every single training camp from Turkish country side to Syria
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+ Show Spoiler +QUOTE] On January 13 2015 18:27 Boonbag wrote:On January 13 2015 18:19 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 18:03 Boonbag wrote:On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit maybe you miss the point wich was a reference to WWII and the fact we didn't protect the jewish community from beeing deported to nazi camps also, the terrorists targets were certainly not aimed at "french people" like you tend to think but symbols : media - police forces - jews that's basically everything people like Dieudonné bash all day long and what young marginal poor people in the suburbs see as the evil incarnate so yeah as you said you must be pretty stupid I don't have a problem with Jewish people at all, sorry. Rather I'd like to keep things real, you can privilege one community over another. Jewish people do indeed have their problems but then again, so do a LOT of other minorities in France. So yeah, antisemitism is bad then again so is racism, homophobia and a lot of other things. For the prime minister to blatantly say "I don't care if 100k Spaniards leave but I'll be sad if 100k Jewish people do" does indeed annoy me. I am the last person in France to shit on police forces as well, I have a lot of respect for them actually. I don't spout the "CRS SS" nonsense that so many young people like to do. Nor do I have a problem with Jewish people, as I said before. Nor do I have a problem with Muslims. However I will say that the situation of Israel - Palestine is fucked up. I do have a problem with media, they always give an incomplete picture or biased view. True journalism in France is hard to find, i.e. medias don't just straight up report facts, they present what they want in the light that they want. I view Marine Le Pen as a pig who learned how to talk for instance, yet I am still very annoyed that we don't get to hear her views in a completely impartial manner (e.g. Ruth Elkrief vs Marine Le Pen). Dieudonné gets censored because he says things which are politically incorrect (afaik? I don't know what he talks about, nor do I particularly care). Zemmour is considered trash in France as well but then again how can you consider someone trash when you refuse to listen what he has to say? If it it's not "politically correct" then you aren't allowed to express your views. You even hear people say "I don't read Le Figaro" or "I don't read Le Monde", which blows my fucking mind. Why would you cherry pick the way you obtain your information and the way its presented to you? Are you too stupid to judge things for yourself? Do you need "journalism" to present the information in a way that reflects your political views? Let's be fucking real here, true journalism is as close to impartial as you can get and that is NOT what most French media is. mass medias are commercial entities that earn money over ad and audience also the two journals you mentionned are "opinion press" meaning they present to their audience a point of view over the facts and an interpretation of those, and certainly not "straight facts" as you tend to think if you want pure straight facts just use press agencies as a source of information that way you won't feel it "biaised" as to the jewish community reference you still don't get what the prime minister said he basically says that if 100 000 jewish ppl migrate to israel because they feel insecure in france, that will mean history repeats itself again and that the french gov will again have failed at protecting them like they failed times and times again in the past French gov has a very specific history towards jewish community - Dreyfus case, mass deportation. Keep in mind french gov in WWII willingly offered help to the nazis to find, arrest and send jews to camp without even Hitler having to ask for it, as it was considered an act of good faith back then towards the nazi gov. I wont even comment on the Marine Lepen can't express herself shit, as if you just google it, you'll prolly find TV airing numbers and see she's basically the political person that is going the most on TV and radio since the past two years. Zemmour is considered trash for a very good reason - hes part of a category of showman pretending to be an intellectual while beeing in fact a very uneducated fraud if you want to listen to smart, intelligent ppl, you have plenty of those on the radio like on France Culture Zemmour is the no1 best selling author in france since mid october or something, alongside the ex wife of the current president. So saying nobody listens to him is a bit far streched to say the least. The problem is people need to go fucking educate theirselves and stop listening to people spreading non sense and falsifying history to make editorial money.
the statement of the prime minister is still wrong and extremely insulting
every french that leave france because of insecurity, jewish or not, should be considered as an inner failure of the republic
and historical fact, even if they are true and have to be acknowledged, shouldn't be used this way to make a group of people more important than the rest, because you basically create a profond division into the population
everyone should be regarded as the same
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EPT
