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Biff The Understudy
France7804 Posts
Article here Waiting for a Legal Lord justification of why Putin is a good guy and the EU has to go (so the good guy can has moar countries I guess). If anything it makes it remarkably clear why Putin is supporting anti EU far right politicians all around Europe. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On April 04 2017 10:39 KlaCkoN wrote: More importantly from the EUs perspective I think is Gibraltars status as a tax haven for financial services and banking etc. As I understand it Gibraltar is self governing and does not have to adhere to whatever corporate tax rates and financial regulations Westminster sets but it would still by access the EU market at whatever terms the british negotiate for themselves. This is really weird from a regulatory equivalence point of view, and if I were Barnier I would argue that since westminster doesnt seem to have the authority to negotiate on behalf of gibraltar when it comes to taxes and regulataions, then obviously gibraltar should not be covered by the resulting trade deal. Yeah it's time Europe gets tougher on those tax heavens : Ireland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Switzerland. Those are the main culprits. The problem is every government is facing the prisoner's dilemma and has huge pressure fom lobbies on top of it. | ||
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warding
Portugal2394 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On April 04 2017 16:45 Godwrath wrote: What veto ? As far i know this all started because the UK didn't include Gibraltar into the negotiations when it's fiscal exceptionality certainly warrants for it. Klackon is on the money here. Spain has a veto over any deal with Gibraltar. I'm not entirely clear what this means, but presumably it means that a deal can be made with the UK while Gibraltar can be excluded. This has nothing to do with tax. The EU has its own sanctioned tax havens, and if it was about tax then there would be no need to mention Spain specifically, as it would be a matter for the entire EU. Immediately after the EU vote Spain was talking about the sovereignty of Gibraltar again. That is what they are aiming for. It is transparent, and they've stated their intentions explicitly anyway. On April 04 2017 17:57 Philoctetes wrote: Is is first name really 'Lord'? Amazing. This Howard guy is one of those Englishmen that still think they are in charge of an empire. But they need to get it into their thick skulls that their own blebs, which they egged on with lies and xenophobia themselves, voted for England to step out of the UK. England is out of the UK. It has no say anymore over Gibraltar, Northern Ireland, Scotland, or pieces of rock on the other side of the globe. These English empire-dreamers should be more concerned about how they are able to pay their financial obligations to the EU. Lord is his title. And the rest of your post is equally ignorant. I actually have no idea what you're talking about, and clearly neither do you. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On April 04 2017 19:07 Biff The Understudy wrote: Talking of which, for those who don't understand why wanting the end of the EU and NATO is one of the active goals of Vlad's FP, Russian propaganda now rewrites history to say that in fact part of Lithuania belongs to them. Article here Waiting for a Legal Lord justification of why Putin is a good guy and the EU has to go (so the good guy can has moar countries I guess). If anything it makes it remarkably clear why Putin is supporting anti EU far right politicians all around Europe. Funnily enough there was a post a few months ago where legalord said that Russia would be justified in invading Estonia. Something about Russians living there treated with unequal rights. Not quite Lithuania, but close enough. | ||
mustaju
Estonia4504 Posts
On April 04 2017 20:57 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Funnily enough there was a post a few months ago where legalord said that Russia would be justified in invading Estonia. Something about Russians living there treated with unequal rights. Not quite Lithuania, but close enough. It's an illegal immigration argument. If an occupying force resettles a third of your population and replaces it without consent from a legitimate government institution, one could a) kick them out b) give them citizenship (quite a few were military personel) and hope for the best or c) give them a path to citizenship. Estonia chose c), in what is widely considered the best of bad options. about a third are still without citizenship, but those are mostly the older generation. In case anyone was interested. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
On April 04 2017 19:07 Biff The Understudy wrote: Talking of which, for those who don't understand why wanting the end of the EU and NATO is one of the active goals of Vlad's FP, Russian propaganda now rewrites history to say that in fact part of Lithuania belongs to them. Article here Waiting for a Legal Lord justification of why Putin is a good guy and the EU has to go (so the good guy can has moar countries I guess). If anything it makes it remarkably clear why Putin is supporting anti EU far right politicians all around Europe. I thought this was an interesting comment thread on reddit about that article. Or are they just paid Russian trolls in your eyes? https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/635oxd/lithuania_fears_russian_propaganda_is_prelude_to/dfrrfs6/ Lithuanian here. While i agree that Russia is somewhat of a threat, the actual invade is really really really unlikely. Whats really happening here is Russian propaganda is matched with much much much bigger unti-Russian propaganda. I could swear over the last year or so i read like 50 reports of Russian aircraft illegally invading our airspace. These articles almost identical, and its not like Russians didnt do it before... The worst thing is our own media. Our own media is riddled with garbage articles "If russia decided to invade us they would do it in 8 hours/Russia wants to invade Lithuania because it needs a corridor towards Europe/". We are already being conditioned into believing that is inevitable and that it's happening soon (BY OUR OWN MEDIA). As a guy from Latvia - our local news is much more polarized, because of a larger Russian-speaking population, but these fear tactics are great when there are 2 months left before municipal elections, and you political opponent showed any form of cooperation with Russia, Russian media, or Russian business. | ||
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warding
Portugal2394 Posts
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Godwrath
Spain10107 Posts
On April 04 2017 20:35 bardtown wrote: Spain has a veto over any deal with Gibraltar. I'm not entirely clear what this means, but presumably it means that a deal can be made with the UK while Gibraltar can be excluded. This has nothing to do with tax. The EU has its own sanctioned tax havens, and if it was about tax then there would be no need to mention Spain specifically, as it would be a matter for the entire EU. Immediately after the EU vote Spain was talking about the sovereignty of Gibraltar again. That is what they are aiming for. It is transparent, and they've stated their intentions explicitly anyway. It would have that veto, if the EU poprossal's would go through intact. Since you are using the present, am i missreading you by chance ? The reason to do so is obvious, trade between Gibraltarians and Linenses is very interwined and as i understand it the EU finds reasonable for Spain to have a higher say on EU - UK trade deals which would affect Gibraltar than other EU countries. The talks about co-sovereignty were mostly about seeing what Gibraltarians would answer if offered a chance to a special deal where they could keep themselves into the EU (Gibraltarians voted 95% for remain if i am not mistaken). But Gibraltarians response was a no. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1128 Posts
On April 04 2017 04:26 LegalLord wrote: Yeah, that might indeed make it justified if a significant part of the government asked a foreign nation to intervene. But it would ultimately be judged in the court of winner's justice. "a significant part of the government" It was seven people, none of whom had a significant position in the government. Perhaps you'd prefer a more relevant example. It would be like if the US invaded Canada because Tom Mulcair wrote a letter to Trump asking for it. It would be like if China invaded Russia because Gennady Zyuganov wrote a letter to Xi Jinping asking for it. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On April 04 2017 21:38 Godwrath wrote: It would have that veto, if the EU poprossal's would go through intact. Since you are using the present, am i missreading you by chance ? The reason to do so is obvious, trade between Gibraltarians and Linenses is very interwined and as i understand it the EU finds reasonable for Spain to have a higher say on EU - UK trade deals which would affect Gibraltar than other EU countries. The talks about co-sovereignty were mostly about seeing what would the Gibraltarians answer if offered a chance to a special deal where they could keep themselves into the EU (Gibraltarians voted 95% for remain if i am not mistaken). But Gibraltarians response was a no. Be serious. Everybody who is familiar with the context knows what this is about. It's not like if Gibraltar had higher tax rates Linenses would suddenly start attracting international financial services. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10107 Posts
On April 04 2017 22:00 bardtown wrote: Be serious. Everybody who is familiar with the context knows what this is about. It's not like if Gibraltar had higher tax rates Linenses would suddenly start attracting international financial services. I am being serious. I don't understand why you find so outrageous for the Spanish goverment to attempt to have a higher say over something that could specifically affect Linenses than let's say Greece. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17827 Posts
On April 04 2017 21:51 LightSpectra wrote: Lithuania is a member of NATO, I have a hard time believing that Putin is going to risk a war with everybody over it. So far he's just been a vulture towards little non-NATO states he can annex/subjugate like Georgia and parts of Ukraine. "a significant part of the government" It was seven people, none of whom had a significant position in the government. Perhaps you'd prefer a more relevant example. It would be like if the US invaded Canada because Tom Mulcair wrote a letter to Trump asking for it. It would be like if China invaded Russia because Gennady Zyuganov wrote a letter to Xi Jinping asking for it. Hey, don't blame the Dutch for your fucked up internal politics 400 years ago. Nobody can help it that you still had Protestants vs. Catholics problems 40 years after the rest of Europe had finally signed peace on the matter. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On April 04 2017 22:12 Godwrath wrote: I am being serious. I don't understand why you find so outrageous for the Spanish goverment to attempt to have a higher say over something that could specifically affect Linenses than let's say Greece. I'm sorry but not even the EU are pretending this is about tax. France doesn't get a veto on Guernsey or Jersey. Stop being disingenuous. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1128 Posts
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Godwrath
Spain10107 Posts
On April 04 2017 22:25 bardtown wrote: I'm sorry but not even the EU are pretending this is about tax. France doesn't get a veto on Guernsey or Jersey. Stop being disingenuous. And where exactly did i say the word tax in our current exchange ? And we are not talking about Frenchmen here. I am talking about Linenses whom are Spanish and they have a Spanish goverment behind, same as the UK with Gibraltarians. It amazes me that for someone who values sovereignty, only does when it is their own country the one who attempts to exercise it. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On April 04 2017 22:34 Godwrath wrote: And where exactly did i say the word tax in our current exchange ? Just stop talking. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9095 Posts
On April 04 2017 19:07 Biff The Understudy wrote: Talking of which, for those who don't understand why wanting the end of the EU and NATO is one of the active goals of Vlad's FP, Russian propaganda now rewrites history to say that in fact part of Lithuania belongs to them. Article here Waiting for a Legal Lord justification of why Putin is a good guy and the EU has to go (so the good guy can has moar countries I guess). If anything it makes it remarkably clear why Putin is supporting anti EU far right politicians all around Europe. This looks like normal Russian shittalking, I don't think the Russian government is trying to justify an invasion. Articles in sensationalist tone like this Guardian clickbait are counterproductive because they can make some readers doubt in the crediblity of Western media ("if they're exaggerating the Russian threat to Lithuania, maybe they exaggerated the situation in Crimea too?"). | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10107 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On April 04 2017 17:57 Philoctetes wrote: Is is first name really 'Lord'? Amazing. This Howard guy is one of those Englishmen that still think they are in charge of an empire. But they need to get it into their thick skulls that their own blebs, which they egged on with lies and xenophobia themselves, voted for England to step out of the UK. England is out of the UK. It has no say anymore over Gibraltar, Northern Ireland, Scotland, or pieces of rock on the other side of the globe. These English empire-dreamers should be more concerned about how they are able to pay their financial obligations to the EU. If EU-supporters were a little more sane about negotiating trade deals now that the UK isn't part of the EU, they'd have a lot more pull proving the EU is this benevolent help to their own member states. Let's see: slight the popular referendum, very much in line with removing powers from the citizenry. Intentionally conflate the UK with the EU in terms of what it means about Brexit. Speak of financial obligations and not tough negotiations where both sides seek to benefit. Yeah the EU sounds like a great thing to cede sovereignty to! The last thing I needed to hear about Gibraltar is that its citizens wish to remain a part of the UK. The UK then negotiates on their behalf for trade interests they hold most dear, and Gibraltar's future satisfaction or dissatisfaction is gauged. The EU could do a much better job rebuilding its reputation by not putting unwelcome nonsense in the negotiations. | ||
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