EPTDespite Penelopegate he's almost at parity with Macron right now...
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 680
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
Despite Penelopegate he's almost at parity with Macron right now... | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 25 2017 07:41 Nyxisto wrote: Didn't Fillion say that he's going to drop out if this continues to go on? Who are his voters gonna flock to? That's what he said initially, but he changed his mind and will now go until the end, whatever happens. He simply ignored/silenced all the critical voices from his party, locked himself into the “it's a plot from the left and the medias!1!1!1!” bubble and now acts like nothing happened. France, 2017... | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On February 25 2017 07:45 TheDwf wrote: France, 2017... Well if it helps, most of the Western world is like this right now so you're far from alone. Though in all likelihood that just makes it worse. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On February 24 2017 22:08 Laurens wrote: I guess it depends who you asked  It's certainly true that Cameron didn't announce beforehand that he would resign in case of Brexit, my bad, but a lot of people did expect it to happen. Just the first article on the issue I found: www.independent.co.uk That article is basically the opposite of expecting it to happen. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
Representatives have granted special powers to the president to axe live broadcasts of parliamentary debate in cases of racist speech or acts, and the ability to purge any offending video or audio material afterwards. besides the obvious elephant in the room, i don't get the idea. are they implying that if people won't hear racist/xenophobic statements they won't know they exist or can't figure them out for themselves?.However, the rules on what is considered offensive are not clear and there are concerns about manipulation and censorship. "This undermines the reliability of the Parliament's archives at a moment where the suspicion of 'fake news' and manipulation threatens the credibility of the media and the politicians," said Tom Weingaertner, president of the International Press Association. After Britain's decision to leave the European Union, the rising popularity of anti-immigrant candidates such as Geert Wilders in the Netherlands or far-right Marine Le Pen in France is worrying Europe's political mainstream. Ms Le Pen, who is running for the French presidency this spring, has promised to follow Britain's lead. At the European Parliament, where elections are due in 2019, many say the need for action against hate speech and strong sanctions for offenders is overdue. The assembly - with two seats, in the Belgian capital of Brussels and Strasbourg in France - is often the stage for political and sometimes nationalist theatre. Beyond routine shouting matches, members occasionally wear T-shirts with slogans or unfurl banners. Flags adorn some members' desks. "There have been a growing number of cases of politicians saying things that are beyond the pale of normal parliamentary discussion and debate," said British MEP Richard Corbett, who chaperoned the new rule through the assembly. "What if this becames not isolated incidents, but specific, where people could say: 'Hey, this is a fantastic platform. It's broad, it's live-streamed. It can be recorded and repeated. Let's use it for something more vociferous, more spectacular'," he said. + Show Spoiler + In a nutshell, rule 165 of the parliament's rules of procedure allows the chair of debates to halt the live broadcast "in the case of defamatory, racist or xenophobic language or behavior by a member". The maximum fine for offenders would be around 9,000 euro (£7,600). Under the rule, not made public by the assembly and first reported by Spain's La Vanguardia paper, offending material could be "deleted from the audiovisual record of proceedings". That means citizens would never know about it unless reporters were in the room. Mr Weingaertner said the IPA was not consulted on that. A technical note outlines a procedure for manually cutting off the video feed, stopping transmission on in-house TV monitors and breaking the satellite link to halt broadcast to the outside world. A tape in four languages would be kept running to serve as a legal record during the blackout. A more effective and permanent system was being sought. It is also technically possible to introduce a time delay so broadcasts appear a few seconds later. This means they could be interrupted before offending material is aired. But the system is unwieldy. Members have the right to speak in any of the European Union's 24 official languages. An offending act could be over before the assembly's president Antonio Tajani has a chance to hit the kill switch. Misunderstandings and abuses could crop up. During a debate in December, Gerolf Annemans, from Belgium's Flemish independence party Vlaams Belang, expressed concern about the rule. He said it "can be abused by those who have hysterical reactions to things that they qualify as racist, xenophobic, when people are just expressing politically incorrect views". Even those involved in the move acknowledge it is a sensitive issue. Helmut Scholz, from Germany's left-wing Die Linke party, said EU lawmakers are elected - indeed the EU parliament is the bloc's only popularly elected institution - and must be able to express their views about how Europe should work. "You can't limit or deny this right," he said. He worries about fake news too, but of the kind made from selective extracts of debates. "If you are following the whole debate that is one thing, but if you have certain media who are taking out individual sentences you could falsify the whole issue," he said. Still, Nazi rallying cries and racist obscenities are relatively rare but not unheard of. "We need an instrument against that, to take it out of the record, to stop distribution of such slogans, such ideas," Mr Scholz said. is leading by example equated with mind controlling by example?. after "the other side" started winning, i'm getting the feeling that whoever is in charge(left, right, center, the far sides, etc) gave up on humans, took for granted that they're stupid(mindless) and now they race to abuse that stupidity to further their agendas/goals. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
Today, Mediapart/Marianne reveal what might be a new case of fake jobs linked to Le Pen and the FN, with the testimony from the very guy who benefitted from this fake contract. It just never stops. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
If played correctly (using also his ownership of many media), that would probably allow him to establish a single-party government. Add to this the fact that the party has changed its statues today so that Babiš as the leader is now able to add and remove people from party tickets at will. And people still love him, because he fights corruption and tax evasion by small business (the biggest enemy of common folk) with policies such as on-line electronic evidence of revenue and monthly detailed VAT reports - while himself receiving billions in subsidies for his business with biofuel. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 26 2017 22:57 xM(Z wrote: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/european-parliament-to-cut-broadcasts-over-racism-or-hate-speech-35483206.html besides the obvious elephant in the room, i don't get the idea. are they implying that if people won't hear racist/xenophobic statements they won't know they exist or can't figure them out for themselves?. is leading by example equated with mind controlling by example?. after "the other side" started winning, i'm getting the feeling that whoever is in charge(left, right, center, the far sides, etc) gave up on humans, took for granted that they're stupid(mindless) and now they race to abuse that stupidity to further their agendas/goals. That seems pretty stupid... If it's something bad enough to be cut its probably bad enough to bring legal charges? That'd seem like a better approach to me. Even if just a minor fine. And if it's not enough to warrant that it problem does not need purging either? That being said, I have no idea how your laws look for this kind of thing. ///edit: oh for EU parliament? Still a stupid idea imo | ||
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Sent.
Poland9297 Posts
Members of the European Parliament shall not be subject to any form of inquiry, detention or legal proceedings in respect of opinions expressed or votes cast by them in the performance of their duties. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
The ideas of tolerance, equality, democracy, freedom and compassion are sound enough to be spread by example and leadership. Stop trying to silence the opposition, let them speak so that everyone can hear how stupid they sound. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8077 Posts
On February 24 2017 08:33 LegalLord wrote: Hopefully Le Pen can pull it off in the end. Lol. I don't even know if you are trolling, completely ignorant or, more worryingly, if you are actually sincere. The FN is a party of absolute scumbags. The only thing that unite their leaders and militants is that they are all horrible people. Ultra catholics, skinheads, nostalgic of the colonial Algeria, neo nazis, countryside racists, you tell me. On the local politics level, the FN is doing enormous damage, because they don't have an infrastructure and we end up with people sitting in cantons that are simply morons, to a point it's tragic. I work with local politicians in France, and one wouldn't beloeve the people that are being put in responsibility by the FN. They are super angry, completely dumb, very mean, and can't write a sentence in French without making ten mistakes. The FN was fonded by former pro-french algeria veterans (the sinister OAS), by nostalgic of Petain and the collaboration, and by members of groups such as Action Francaise and Occident. Those were hardcore fascists. Not like the alt right, real, authentic fascists. Le Pen was the kind of guy who was editing and selling SS songs recordings. What do you want LL? The end of civilization? A world war? A genocide? A dictatorship? I ask genuinely. You parrot badly digested uber populistic far right ideology all day long, but what do you stand for at the end? | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9206 Posts
On February 27 2017 05:03 Biff The Understudy wrote: Lol. I don't even know if you are trolling, completely ignorant or, more worryingly, if you are actually sincere. The FN is a party of absolute scumbags. The only thing that unite their leaders and militants is that they are all horrible people. Ultra catholics, skinheads, nostalgic of the colonial Algeria, neo nazis, countryside racists, you tell me. On the local politics level, the FN is doing enormous damage, because they don't have an infrastructure and we end up with people sitting in cantons that are simply morons, to a point it's tragic. I work with local politicians in France, and one wouldn't beloeve the people that are being put in responsibility by the FN. They are super angry, completely dumb, very mean, and can't write a sentence in French without making ten mistakes. The FN was fonded by former pro-french algeria veterans (the sinister OAS), by nostalgic of Petain and the collaboration, and by members of groups such as Action Francaise and Occident. Those were hardcore fascists. Not like the alt right, real, authentic fascists. Le Pen was the kind of guy who was editing and selling SS songs recordings. What do you want LL? The end of civilization? A world war? A genocide? A dictatorship? I ask genuinely. You parrot badly digested uber populistic far right ideology all day long, but what do you stand for at the end? None of that, he's said a bunch of times that he wants the EU and NATO to break up and Le Pen and other far-right populists winning elections would be a step in that direction. The only reasoning he gave for that so far is that he's upset that the smaller members of EU and NATO don't have to cower to the might of larger nations in the current climate, and by larger nations he usually means Russia. | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On February 27 2017 05:03 Biff The Understudy wrote: [...] but what do you stand for at the end? One line replies, overly simplified, sweeping, repeated, inciting and seeking destruction instead of constructivity, among others. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11831 Posts
On February 27 2017 05:26 Artisreal wrote: One line replies, overly simplified, sweeping, repeated, inciting and seeking destruction instead of constructivity, among others. Also, whatever is good for russia, or more specifically, Putin. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
On February 27 2017 05:28 Simberto wrote: Also, whatever is good for russia, or more specifically, Putin. Even I think he's been absolutely mental with regards to this stuff in the past few weeks. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 27 2017 05:24 SoSexy wrote: World war? Genocide? Biffy, people spewing out non-sense like this are the reason the FN grew so much. Nope, random overreactions on the Internet—or even in real life—are certainly not the reason why the far-right is currently so high in France. | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
On February 27 2017 05:30 TheDwf wrote: Nope, random overreactions on the Internet—or even in real life—are certainly not the reason why the far-right is currently so high in France. You are right - maybe it has something to do with the disgrace the other parties are (and have been, the last years) | ||
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
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