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On February 10 2015 05:04 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 04:40 Velr wrote:On February 10 2015 02:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On February 10 2015 02:41 mdb wrote:
Swiss banks really are serious problem imo. All this tax evasion and hidden bank accounts smells like organized crime to me. The Swiss seem to have been getting cleaner in recent years. The Irish and the Dutch are two big new players of the last two decades, mainly on the business tax side. On February 10 2015 02:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On February 10 2015 02:41 mdb wrote:
Swiss banks really are serious problem imo. All this tax evasion and hidden bank accounts smells like organized crime to me. The Swiss seem to have been getting cleaner in recent years. The Irish and the Dutch are two big new players of the last two decades, mainly on the business tax side. One thing often forgotten when talking about "hiding money in switzerland" is, that the same laws foreign citizens used to hide money in switzerland also applied to swiss people themselves. But we never had (or at least aren't feeling the effects of) large scale tax evasion so it is/was kinda hard to get the swiss people, direct democracy you know, to actually see the problem. Fun fact, the laws that allowed people to hide money in switzerland actually "predate" the tax evasion scams they later were used for. As for being nationalistic... Try direct democracy, I doubt it would look much diffrent in most other countries. While switzerland has a very big right wing/nationalist party, the second biggest party is actually very leftist (one of its declared goals is actually to "overcome capitalism"). Its not as simple as it looks, naturally only the "shocking" initiatives/votes make it into the world wide media... FFS right now i can vote for a "ban on fireworks, because they scare animals" (thats the actual name of the law). We vote on all kinds of shit and only certain stuff makes it "BIG", thats painting a very simplistic picture of Switzerland (and believe me, i hate that picture and i hate the pictures i have to see in switzerland before such votes...). I highly doubt most of these votes would look much diffrent in germany or france, if you actually could vote on that stuff. As for "joining the EU". While there never was a majority in switzerland to join the EU, the last ~15 years of EU policies have made damn sure that not even people that actually like the EU, like myself, want to join it anymore. At this point, as a developed country, you would have to be insane to join it willingly (btw. why don't i hear anyone bitching about Norway)... If i remember correctly, the EU avoided actual voting in several countries because it would end in a disaster... Thats not exactly "promoting" the european "idea", especially not to a country like switzerland with its direct democracy. Btw: The main problem in finances atm are Holdings and large firms in general not paying taxes due to various holes in the (international) tax codes. We probably should stop focussing on private persons hiding their money, while the main issue is big ass companies not paying "their fair share". But i guess private persons have a weaker lobby than firms... That sounds interesting. Would you say you're in favor of the direct democracy you are under? Who comes up with the laws, too? I imagine the politicians or head of cantons must, right? I should read up on that. Seems pretty fascinating.
I like it, but it is in need of a rehaul (as are many old laws in most countries  ).
Everyone can bring something up to a vote if he gets enough supporters (swiss citizens signing his "initiative"). On other stuff the politicians themselves come up with, the "referendum/national vote" is mandatory and in other cases the people can challenege an allready made decisions by getting enough people to sign a "referendum".
Its kinda complicated, you should read up on it yourself  .
Atm I personally feel there are not enough people needed to get something to a vote and we are in dire need of a court that judges over an initiative beofre it comes to a vote (thats pretty much missing entirely atm). But this has just gotten a problem with the rise of the mass media/internet (so basically the last 25 years). Before that it actually was a challenge to get the required amount of support (your under a timelimit), nowadays it is easy so we have to vote on plenty of bullshit/insignificant or outright dangerous stuff.
Overhauling it is hard because, you probably guessed it, it requires a majority of the people being in favor of cutting down their own rights by vote.
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On February 09 2015 17:24 Banaora wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 16:26 A3th3r wrote:On February 05 2015 13:54 Lucumo wrote:On February 04 2015 09:42 A3th3r wrote:
H&M is the most successful European company I know of, economically speaking. They are situated in Sweden & have stores all over the world. Just bought some clothes from there a few days ago & they look great. I think that other firms, specifically those from GERMANY, could really learn a lesson from the H&M example. What are you talking about? For example: Aldi in 2010 had already more than thrice the revenue of what H&M had in 2013. BASF in 2013 had more than four times the revenue while having 2.5 times the profit. And what about BMW, Volkswagen, etc? Must be fun, living under a rock. Yes, but H&M is INTERNATIONAL. That's the difference. They delve into markets in dozens of countries. Meanwhile, you'll never see an Aldi in the US of A. They don't have enough range to make that step. I do see Aldi in other countries but I NEVER see BASF anywhere but confined inside the borders of Germany. That is great & all but Germany is big but not that big, you know what I'm saying? Sort of like working in Belgium, but never doing transaction in the Netherlands or France. All of German companies' eggs are in one basket - a recipe for disaster if I've ever heard of one. You're a funny dude. Don't know if you're trolling or really don't know better. For ALDI in the U.S. look here: https://www.aldi.us/ - they got lots of stores over there. Maybe just not in the area where you are living. If you want you can read up about BASF Corporation here: https://www.basf.com/us/en.html where it says it's the second largest producer and marketer of chemicals and related products in North America.
This may disturb you, buddy, but I have never seen a BASF or an Aldi in the US, but in Hamburg the FIRST thing I saw as I stepped off the RyanAir plane was a massive McDonald's logo. Just sayin.' McDonald's is not afraid to go international and is similar to BMW in that respect (I see BMW's constantly in my daily life). There are a LOT of companies in Germany that I have simply never heard of because they haven't expanded enough to be relevant to the mainstream. Maybe they are big in the 'textiles world,' or something. Congrats! That's great but just not that great unless you yourself represent a textile manufacturing company. Everyone on the planet has heard of McDonald's because they are successful, and no one knows what Aldi is or what it does.
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On February 10 2015 11:02 A3th3r wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 17:24 Banaora wrote:On February 09 2015 16:26 A3th3r wrote:On February 05 2015 13:54 Lucumo wrote:On February 04 2015 09:42 A3th3r wrote:
H&M is the most successful European company I know of, economically speaking. They are situated in Sweden & have stores all over the world. Just bought some clothes from there a few days ago & they look great. I think that other firms, specifically those from GERMANY, could really learn a lesson from the H&M example. What are you talking about? For example: Aldi in 2010 had already more than thrice the revenue of what H&M had in 2013. BASF in 2013 had more than four times the revenue while having 2.5 times the profit. And what about BMW, Volkswagen, etc? Must be fun, living under a rock. Yes, but H&M is INTERNATIONAL. That's the difference. They delve into markets in dozens of countries. Meanwhile, you'll never see an Aldi in the US of A. They don't have enough range to make that step. I do see Aldi in other countries but I NEVER see BASF anywhere but confined inside the borders of Germany. That is great & all but Germany is big but not that big, you know what I'm saying? Sort of like working in Belgium, but never doing transaction in the Netherlands or France. All of German companies' eggs are in one basket - a recipe for disaster if I've ever heard of one. You're a funny dude. Don't know if you're trolling or really don't know better. For ALDI in the U.S. look here: https://www.aldi.us/ - they got lots of stores over there. Maybe just not in the area where you are living. If you want you can read up about BASF Corporation here: https://www.basf.com/us/en.html where it says it's the second largest producer and marketer of chemicals and related products in North America. This may disturb you, buddy, but I have never seen a BASF or an Aldi in the US, but in Hamburg the FIRST thing I saw as I stepped off the RyanAir plane was a massive McDonald's logo. Just sayin.' McDonald's is not afraid to go international and is similar to BMW in that respect (I see BMW's constantly in my daily life). There are a LOT of companies in Germany that I have simply never heard of because they haven't expanded enough to be relevant to the mainstream. Maybe they are big in the 'textiles world,' or something. Congrats! That's great but just not that great unless you yourself represent a textile manufacturing company. Everyone on the planet has heard of McDonald's because they are successful, and no one knows what Aldi is or what it does.
that's just the nature of most of Germanys big branches being very technical... Has nothing to do with them not going out or not going international but just with them not being something the general public purchases. Take the BASF example: as some randome dude your chances to actually buy something from them (that is something from them and not something from them being used in something else) is quiiiite low.
There's just stuff that doesn't advertise to the general public due to the nature of it's customers and you're comparing apples to oranges if you're trying to talk about how H&M is just much more knowledgeable than BASF lol.
BMW on the other hand would be a better example like you mentioned.
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On February 10 2015 11:02 A3th3r wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 17:24 Banaora wrote:On February 09 2015 16:26 A3th3r wrote:On February 05 2015 13:54 Lucumo wrote:On February 04 2015 09:42 A3th3r wrote:
H&M is the most successful European company I know of, economically speaking. They are situated in Sweden & have stores all over the world. Just bought some clothes from there a few days ago & they look great. I think that other firms, specifically those from GERMANY, could really learn a lesson from the H&M example. What are you talking about? For example: Aldi in 2010 had already more than thrice the revenue of what H&M had in 2013. BASF in 2013 had more than four times the revenue while having 2.5 times the profit. And what about BMW, Volkswagen, etc? Must be fun, living under a rock. Yes, but H&M is INTERNATIONAL. That's the difference. They delve into markets in dozens of countries. Meanwhile, you'll never see an Aldi in the US of A. They don't have enough range to make that step. I do see Aldi in other countries but I NEVER see BASF anywhere but confined inside the borders of Germany. That is great & all but Germany is big but not that big, you know what I'm saying? Sort of like working in Belgium, but never doing transaction in the Netherlands or France. All of German companies' eggs are in one basket - a recipe for disaster if I've ever heard of one. You're a funny dude. Don't know if you're trolling or really don't know better. For ALDI in the U.S. look here: https://www.aldi.us/ - they got lots of stores over there. Maybe just not in the area where you are living. If you want you can read up about BASF Corporation here: https://www.basf.com/us/en.html where it says it's the second largest producer and marketer of chemicals and related products in North America. This may disturb you, buddy, but I have never seen a BASF or an Aldi in the US, but in Hamburg the FIRST thing I saw as I stepped off the RyanAir plane was a massive McDonald's logo. Just sayin.' McDonald's is not afraid to go international and is similar to BMW in that respect (I see BMW's constantly in my daily life). There are a LOT of companies in Germany that I have simply never heard of because they haven't expanded enough to be relevant to the mainstream. Maybe they are big in the 'textiles world,' or something. Congrats! That's great but just not that great unless you yourself represent a textile manufacturing company. Everyone on the planet has heard of McDonald's because they are successful, and no one knows what Aldi is or what it does.
BASF has 2.5x the revenue of McDonalds, 18% of which in North America. If brand recognition is all you care about, then what about Volkswagen, which has 8 times the turnover of McDonalds? VW sells more in North America than McDonalds does in the entire world. Anyway, your initial point was on the strength of the German economy and brand recognition is more or less irrelevant in this regard. It's like debating which nation produces the best music and claiming Canada is the best because of Justin Bieber and who cares about genres other than pop.
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guys basf produces chemistry products for the industry it's not like you're going to find a basf fashion store somewhere
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On February 10 2015 08:40 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 06:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Productivity growth, I mean. You haven't been investing in your own economy much, and productivity growth has suffered. You're still and advanced country, so obviously productivity is high. ![[image loading]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72070179/EZProd.PNG) SourceAnd yes it's not just Germany that's unwilling, but Germany is at the helm right now and Merkel is claiming that Germany holds zero blame for Greece's situation. Ridiculous. See now you are just cherrypicking data to support your argument. Which by the way doesn't make sense. What does it matter if prouctivity growth is low? The same way that actual living standards is far more important than living standards growth rate, so it is with actual productivity. Germany has one of the highest productivity in the world. This is just unjustified Germany bashing.
The short answer to that is in my post and a longer answer is in the link. Germany isn't doing well because they made smart, productivity increasing investments - that would show up in productivity (and investment) figures. The economy there is doing well because they gained a competitive advantage by keeping wages low. Which is odd since I don't see any reason why Germany couldn't invest more in Germany to boost productivity and remain competitive at a higher wage level. They would then have the additional benefit of not having to worry about their savings being wasted by profligate foreigners.
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You are right that the low wages are a problem, but for domestic reasons, they don't cause European trade imbalances . German export products are largely price inelastic and wages in the export sector are pretty high and workers are heavily unionized. It's the service sector that's lacking, but increasing wages there will not change anything about our competitiveness.
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On February 10 2015 11:27 Nyxisto wrote:
guys basf produces chemistry products for the industry it's not like you're going to find a basf fashion store somewhere
I'm aware of that, I don't think he is though :D
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On February 10 2015 11:39 Nyxisto wrote:
You are right that the low wages are a problem, but for domestic reasons, they don't cause European trade imbalances . German export products are largely price inelastic and wages in the export sector are pretty high and workers are heavily unionized. It's the service sector that's lacking, but increasing wages there will not change anything about our competitiveness.
Does your service sector suck because you brought in all those Turks ?
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On February 10 2015 11:39 Nyxisto wrote:
You are right that the low wages are a problem, but for domestic reasons, they don't cause European trade imbalances . German export products are largely price inelastic and wages in the export sector are pretty high and workers are heavily unionized. It's the service sector that's lacking, but increasing wages there will not change anything about our competitiveness.
in order for the eurozone to aid in the development of the peripheral, germany and other rich regions have to sort of act like the U.S. in terms of being the big demand market that developing regions could use as a jump board for their export industry. it's not a problem limited to greece.
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I know, but we're not going to be that. We're as far from being a consumer oriented economy as we could be. (not because of the turks, lol). Probably more reasonable would be to create some form of fiscal transfer towards the periphery so that you have some form of European wide social welfare but that's never going to happen. People here would simply think that the lazy southerners are stealing our moneys.
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On February 10 2015 02:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 02:41 mdb wrote:
Swiss banks really are serious problem imo. All this tax evasion and hidden bank accounts smells like organized crime to me. The Swiss seem to have been getting cleaner in recent years. The Irish and the Dutch are two big new players of the last two decades, mainly on the business tax side.
This finger pointing is the most hilarious / sad aspect of these discussions. 
Every country has a black spot on its own shirt, but 'wait, that one is even darker than mine' is used as an argument.
Swiss have the bank secrecy. English have Jersey, Cayman Islands, Bermuda and dozens of other islands. Americans have Delaware. Asians have Hong Kong and Singapore. Luxembourg, Ireland, Netherlands, Germany and the list goes on and on (have a look for yourself).
Here is prime example:On February 10 2015 04:40 Velr wrote:
Btw: The main problem in finances atm are Holdings and large firms in general not paying taxes due to various holes in the (international) tax codes. We probably should stop focussing on private persons hiding their money, while the main issue is big ass companies not paying "their fair share". But i guess private persons have a weaker lobby than firms...
Greek's private capital in Swiss banks matches all its outstanding debts. If they only would (could) open all the accounts of their citizens and have them pay back the taxes of the last decade...
"But .. but, it's those damn low business taxes and legal loop holes, I'm telling you!"
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On February 10 2015 13:47 lord_nibbler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 02:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On February 10 2015 02:41 mdb wrote:
Swiss banks really are serious problem imo. All this tax evasion and hidden bank accounts smells like organized crime to me. The Swiss seem to have been getting cleaner in recent years. The Irish and the Dutch are two big new players of the last two decades, mainly on the business tax side. This finger pointing is the most hilarious / sad aspect of these discussions. Every country has a black spot on its own shirt, but 'wait, that one is even darker than mine' is used as an argument. Swiss have the bank secrecy. English have Jersey, Cayman Islands, Bermuda and dozens of other islands. Americans have Delaware. Asians have Hong Kong and Singapore. Luxembourg, Ireland, Netherlands, Germany and the list goes on and on ( have a look for yourself). Here is prime example: Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 04:40 Velr wrote:
Btw: The main problem in finances atm are Holdings and large firms in general not paying taxes due to various holes in the (international) tax codes. We probably should stop focussing on private persons hiding their money, while the main issue is big ass companies not paying "their fair share". But i guess private persons have a weaker lobby than firms... Greek's private capital in Swiss banks matches all its outstanding debts. If they only would (could) open all the accounts of their citizens and have them pay back the taxes of the last decade... "But .. but, it's those damn low business taxes and legal loop holes, I'm telling you!"
Greek's private capital in Swiss banks matches all its outstanding debts.
Should we just assume that all this capital is not taxed whiteout proof? Giving it out whiteout a good reason against the wish of its owners would be plain theft.
But the whole thing is just dumb anyway....
Greeks debt is a fucking joke when compared to the economic power of europe. Greeks whole economy or the height of its debt were never actually important, the Banks giving out loans like mad men until they had to be saved was the problem. In a "sane" world this crysis would have hurt the Banks, not brought down an entire Country...
Same goes for Portugal, Spain and Ireland. The Banks just fucked you in the ass because they fucked up and let you pay for it... The only Country that dealt with this how it should have been done was Iceland.
Some examples where my view on Holding taxation comes from:
Starbucks pays no taxes in Germany, same with Apple and i don't know how many other companies, that is just insane.
I'm not asking to tax them absurdely high or anything... I'm asking to actually just tax them. That would generate more revenue than all that greek private capital all over the world there is, most likely in under a year....
Btw: Remember when this was called a "Banking-Crysis"... How did it become a Debt/State/Euro-Crysis.
My bet is on rebranding to change public opinion. When this whole crysis started, people in europe were angry at the Banks, now they are angry at greece/southern Europe. Why? Because we got told long enough to be angry at greece/southern europe.
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On February 10 2015 17:38 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 13:47 lord_nibbler wrote:On February 10 2015 02:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On February 10 2015 02:41 mdb wrote:
Swiss banks really are serious problem imo. All this tax evasion and hidden bank accounts smells like organized crime to me. The Swiss seem to have been getting cleaner in recent years. The Irish and the Dutch are two big new players of the last two decades, mainly on the business tax side. This finger pointing is the most hilarious / sad aspect of these discussions. Every country has a black spot on its own shirt, but 'wait, that one is even darker than mine' is used as an argument. Swiss have the bank secrecy. English have Jersey, Cayman Islands, Bermuda and dozens of other islands. Americans have Delaware. Asians have Hong Kong and Singapore. Luxembourg, Ireland, Netherlands, Germany and the list goes on and on ( have a look for yourself). Here is prime example: On February 10 2015 04:40 Velr wrote:
Btw: The main problem in finances atm are Holdings and large firms in general not paying taxes due to various holes in the (international) tax codes. We probably should stop focussing on private persons hiding their money, while the main issue is big ass companies not paying "their fair share". But i guess private persons have a weaker lobby than firms... Greek's private capital in Swiss banks matches all its outstanding debts. If they only would (could) open all the accounts of their citizens and have them pay back the taxes of the last decade... "But .. but, it's those damn low business taxes and legal loop holes, I'm telling you!" Should we just assume that all this capital is not taxed whiteout proof? Giving it out whiteout a good reason against the wish of its owners would be plain theft. But the whole thing is just dumb anyway.... Greeks debt is a fucking joke when compared to the economic power of europe. Greeks whole economy or the height of its debt were never actually important, the Banks giving out loans like mad men until they had to be saved was the problem. In a "sane" world this crysis would have hurt the Banks, not brought down an entire Country... Same goes for Portugal, Spain and Ireland. The Banks just fucked you in the ass because they fucked up and let you pay for it... The only Country that dealt with this how it should have been done was Iceland. Some examples where my view on Holding taxation comes from: Starbucks pays no taxes in Germany, same with Apple and i don't know how many other companies, that is just insane. I'm not asking to tax them absurdely high or anything... I'm asking to actually just tax them. That would generate more revenue than all that greek private capital all over the world there is, most likely in under a year.... Btw: Remember when this was called a "Banking-Crysis"... How did it become a Debt/State/Euro-Crysis. My bet is on rebranding to change public opinion. When this whole crysis started, people in europe were angry at the Banks, now they are angry at greece/southern Europe. Why? Because we got told long enough to be angry at greece/southern europe.
It became a debt crisis when bailing out the banks caused huge deficits in the national budgets of many EU countries after those countries' governments decided that bailing out the banks would yield a better outcome than letting them go bankrupt en-masse. Some countries had to deal with other issues as well, causing more strain on already heavily strained budgets, especially in low-trust countries that have tradionally more government interference in their national economies. Add to that panicking markets and you have a recipe for disaster.
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On February 10 2015 11:02 A3th3r wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 17:24 Banaora wrote:On February 09 2015 16:26 A3th3r wrote:On February 05 2015 13:54 Lucumo wrote:On February 04 2015 09:42 A3th3r wrote:
H&M is the most successful European company I know of, economically speaking. They are situated in Sweden & have stores all over the world. Just bought some clothes from there a few days ago & they look great. I think that other firms, specifically those from GERMANY, could really learn a lesson from the H&M example. What are you talking about? For example: Aldi in 2010 had already more than thrice the revenue of what H&M had in 2013. BASF in 2013 had more than four times the revenue while having 2.5 times the profit. And what about BMW, Volkswagen, etc? Must be fun, living under a rock. Yes, but H&M is INTERNATIONAL. That's the difference. They delve into markets in dozens of countries. Meanwhile, you'll never see an Aldi in the US of A. They don't have enough range to make that step. I do see Aldi in other countries but I NEVER see BASF anywhere but confined inside the borders of Germany. That is great & all but Germany is big but not that big, you know what I'm saying? Sort of like working in Belgium, but never doing transaction in the Netherlands or France. All of German companies' eggs are in one basket - a recipe for disaster if I've ever heard of one. You're a funny dude. Don't know if you're trolling or really don't know better. For ALDI in the U.S. look here: https://www.aldi.us/ - they got lots of stores over there. Maybe just not in the area where you are living. If you want you can read up about BASF Corporation here: https://www.basf.com/us/en.html where it says it's the second largest producer and marketer of chemicals and related products in North America. This may disturb you, buddy, but I have never seen a BASF or an Aldi in the US, but in Hamburg the FIRST thing I saw as I stepped off the RyanAir plane was a massive McDonald's logo. Just sayin.' McDonald's is not afraid to go international and is similar to BMW in that respect (I see BMW's constantly in my daily life). There are a LOT of companies in Germany that I have simply never heard of because they haven't expanded enough to be relevant to the mainstream. Maybe they are big in the 'textiles world,' or something. Congrats! That's great but just not that great unless you yourself represent a textile manufacturing company. Everyone on the planet has heard of McDonald's because they are successful, and no one knows what Aldi is or what it does. So...basically you care more about appearances given to yourself than actual reality. That's not how a reasonable person would rationalize.
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On February 09 2015 07:37 hannahbelle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 04:31 WhiteDog wrote:
Thanks.
I thought financial assets would be more than epsilon. Why would it? If I company makes a lot of money(or a higher return) on financial transactions in the long run, then it will move into that line of business. It doesn't make sense for me to produce widgets at 10% ROE when I can play the stock market and make 15% ROE. Company's make their money on their primary business. If they don't, they either end up going under, being bought out, or changing their line of business. Financial transactional profit (from a non-bank business) is usually a by-product of short term investment of liquid assets, or money made from hedging activities from their primary resource input.
Most big firms ended up diversificating activities late 90 (it's changing back today) and usually buy financial product with the excess cash that they don't want to invest.
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Feb 12 (Reuters) - Another round of Greek debt relief could make the country's bonds a safer investment than those of several other euro zone countries, a major U.S bank has told its clients.
Morgan Stanley, a market-maker in Greek bonds, said in an online video that if Athens is given the same leeway from European creditors that it received in the past, its debt-to-GDP ratio of 175 percent would carry the "credit risk" of a country with a ratio of just 88 percent.
Seven countries in the euro zone have debt ratios above this, according to Eurostat: Portugal (128 percent), Ireland (123 percent), Italy (128 percent), Belgium (105 percent), Cyprus (102 percent), Spain and France (both 92 percent).
"The credit risk of the 320 billion euros of debt in Greece, may in fact be lower than in some other euro zone countries," said Paolo Batori, the bank's global head of emerging market fixed income strategy told Reuters.
With around 90 percent of Greece's debt owed to public bodies including its euro zone partners, the bloc's EFSF bailout fund and the International Monetary Fund, the make-up of Greece's debt is unique in the single currency club.
Batori argues that a major part of its debt - a 107 billion euro bailout loan from the EFSF - should not even be counted as debt because it bears no interest for the next eight years and is not due to be paid back for 30 years.
source
(Reuters) - "Grexit" would be sudden, sharp and probably conducted in the dark of night; if Greece were to quit the euro, it would also mark the beginning of a long, hard road - for some harder still than the one already traveled.
The new leftist government wants to keep the country in the currency union, as do its euro zone counterparts. But if they fail to agree a deal to replace or extend a bailout program that expires on Feb. 28, Greece faces the risk of a euro exit - "Grexit" in market shorthand - forced by bankruptcy and default.
Such a scenario would demand a rapid official response as remaining public confidence in the Greek economy evaporates. Capital controls would have to be imposed to stop an uncontrolled flight of cash abroad. They would come when banks and financial markets were closed.
Then the country would need a new currency, one that history suggests may initially be so weak that already cash-strapped Greeks and local businesses would lose much of their savings. This would be accompanied by a huge jump in inflation.
For a while, at least, Grexit may bring worse pain to the Greeks than the austerity policies imposed by the European Union and IMF, under which one in four workers is out of a job.
source
Nice article about some consequences of a default, I reccomend reading the whole article.
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On February 13 2015 00:47 RvB wrote:
Nice article about some consequences of a default, I reccomend reading the whole article.
Very inaccurate. Of course there's gonna be a short time of turmoil that will depend on how good the plan is but other than that, although greek problems and finances have absolutely no similarity to Iceland or Argentina (and Cyprus but they also never defaulted or left euro) the case of Argentina suggests that the hellish road wouldn't be long, back then when they defaulted ofc they had a rapid drop of their economy (that followed a longer drop under IMF surveillance) but they also regained very quickly and that's the point.
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Argentina still had their own currency, it was just fixed to the US dollar. In case of a 'Grexit' the country would pretty much have no currency to conduct business , it would be a catastrophe.
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EPT
