EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 37
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
1. Greek is in this position because of decades of political incompetence and corruption. 2. Therefore the best way for the greeks to get out of this crisis is to reelect the same people/parties that ruled them in these decades. Tbh I think Tsipras deserves a chance. If this happened in the europe of a century ago, I dont think Tsipras would make it to the next election alive, and even now I am not convinced that it's guaranteed. If his government really keeps most of what he promised, he will make a lot of powerful enemies. Though I hope i'm too paranoid here. On January 26 2015 18:08 Faust852 wrote: What would happen if Greece get kicked out of the Eurozone? My understanding i that this seems to be completely unrealistic. As of now, the only way greece leaves the eurozone is because they want it to happen themselves. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6190 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8366 Posts
On January 26 2015 18:17 RvB wrote: A Greek default and Europe and the IMF not getting their 240 billion in loans back. basically the same outcome before the 2010 scare and "death of the euro" - only with a "minor" and quite convenient difference for the lenders. not greece, which is broke owes (most) of the money now - but affluent EU countries. the banks always win! | ||
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maartendq
Belgium3115 Posts
Although it needs to be said that Greece will have to tackle its enormous corruption and clientelism problems regardless of whether austerity is forced on them. I also wonder whether Syriza's landslide victory will cause similar movements in Spain and Portugal to gain traction too. Europe cannot keep ignoring this movement if it spreads. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6190 Posts
On January 26 2015 18:39 Doublemint wrote: basically the same outcome before the 2010 scare and "death of the euro" - only with a "minor" and quite convenient difference for the lenders. not greece, which is broke owes (most) of the money now - but affluent EU countries. the banks always win! The banks had to agree to a restructuring of the debt a long time ago,they already lost. | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8366 Posts
On January 26 2015 19:36 RvB wrote: The banks had to agree to a restructuring of the debt a long time ago,they already lost. yes they had to accept a haircut. though they owed to someone they knew was not able to pay back the debt, and counted on the EU to bail out Greece. even if they only get a fraction of the money back, that's a win from what they actually deserve and what used to happened in such cases - default. | ||
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warding
Portugal2394 Posts
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6190 Posts
On January 26 2015 20:00 Doublemint wrote: yes they had to accept a haircut. though they owed to someone they knew was not able to pay back the debt, and counted on the EU to bail out Greece. even if they only get a fraction of the money back, that's a win from what they actually deserve and what used to happened in such cases - default. Bond holders only knew that Greece wouldn't pay back when it was too late. That is kind of the whole point, if you knew they wouldn't be able to pay it back you'd have sold your bonds and gone short to make a killing instead of keeping them and facing either a haircut or losing it all. A lesser loss is hardly the same as a win. Besides that there are more than just banks who invest in government bonds like f.e. pension funds. They got the same lesser loss. | ||
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accela
Greece314 Posts
On January 26 2015 19:50 Shiragaku wrote: So it looks like SYRIZA is going to enter the government with ANEL. Sure shows how devoted their are to anti-austerity if they are willing to work with nationalists and forego a historical ideological rivalry. ANEL are as much nationalists as New Democracy (the last muppet government) possibly a bit less considering that ND have old supporters of the military dictatorship and antisemites. Obviously the best would be for an absolute majority for the radical left but that simply cannot happen and the communist party is in absolute denial to join any governement. Anyway, just watching the celebrations last night was quite a change, flags of left groups, LGBT, ecology party or other european left parties instead of the old nationalism. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8366 Posts
On January 26 2015 22:12 RvB wrote: Bond holders only knew that Greece wouldn't pay back when it was too late. That is kind of the whole point, if you knew they wouldn't be able to pay it back you'd have sold your bonds and gone short to make a killing instead of keeping them and facing either a haircut or losing it all. A lesser loss is hardly the same as a win. Besides that there are more than just banks who invest in government bonds like f.e. pension funds. They got the same lesser loss. in theory you are correct. though higher finance seems to work in mysterious ways sometimes... and people went short on on greece's debt and the Euro. that's why the EU created the EFSF and well... pension funds are taking a hit no matter what in greece's case. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9101 Posts
On January 26 2015 21:10 warding wrote: It seems that today most people believe austerity to be a bad thing. I'm a bit confused. What exactly was the alternative to austerity for countries like Portugal and Greece? Some believe that pumping money into them until they bounce back was a viable option | ||
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maartendq
Belgium3115 Posts
On January 26 2015 23:45 Sent. wrote: Some believe that pumping money into them until they bounce back was a viable option Or a combination of both? There has to be a way in which you can trim the unnecessary fat while actually investing in infrastructure that promotes entrepreneurship? | ||
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
Ah well, if Tsipras really removes the corruption, then this is the best thing that could've happened. And even if they have to default (meaning the rest of Europe loses a ton of tax money), if it means some long-lasting improvement of the situation, it's worth it. Let's hope for the best. Still, the anti-German rethoric is bothersome, but w/e. | ||
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accela
Greece314 Posts
On January 27 2015 01:48 ACrow wrote: So, they will form a national-socialist government. Somehow that combination rings a bell... Ah well, if Tsipras really removes the corruption, then this is the best thing that could've happened. And even if they have to default (meaning the rest of Europe loses a ton of tax money), if it means some long-lasting improvement of the situation, it's worth it. Let's hope for the best. Still, the anti-German rethoric is bothersome, but w/e. I would really like to hear how that bell works and happened to ring  Also there is no such thing like "anti-German rhetoric" coming from the left but for sure is anti-CDU, anti-conservative, anti-fascist, anti-oligarchy rhetoric. More than 2million Germans visited Greece this summer and i heard of no provocations (why should be?). Die Linke had plenty of representatives in Athens yesterday. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On January 27 2015 03:59 Sub40APM wrote: Did I read it right, did the Syriza coalition partner announce that Jews dont pay taxes in Greece? ...wtf There's some very easy jokes about nobody paying tax and the Jews getting picked out on to receive the flaming... Are there any opinions on the combination of Syriza winning Greece and the Quantitative Easing? How will that go together? | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
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