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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On January 06 2016 04:41 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 04:25 Doublemint wrote:On January 06 2016 04:14 Tien wrote:
Germany is too afraid to just publicly say this unlimited refugee PR stunt was a massive mistake. it was anything but a PR stunt... it was probably the only thing merkel ever did before asking the base and/or relying on polls. ironically it is also the only thing she gets her feet held under the fire in the by the public. what would have been the alternative other than letting a good portion of this massive wave of migrants in? letting them die on the border? on the sea? in the truck of a human trafficker like we had in austria? we are still doing that, but we also showed faith and humanity by letting a shit ton of people in. what happens next is the important thing. schengen yes/no? going full hungary? finally reach some agreement in syria and the like and give more funds to make it liveable there in a refugee camp? those are damn hard questions and only solvable on the EU level. on the other hand the EU seems like the least appropriate institution to be able to reach feasible solutions lol. Its entirely plausible that Merkel thought this would be a good PR move, since probably all her friends at cocktail parties and state dinners said thing like "Ooo won't we look so much better than the rest of the countries with their brutish, racist, citizens." I find that very likely because politicians seem to have a massive, systemic, blindspot on immigration.
yeah, no. you equated enforcing the law = being able to shoot people if push comes to shove in the other thread. I am not sure I can take you seriously anymore.
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On January 06 2016 02:41 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 01:25 m4ini wrote:even deportation should be on the table That actually should be the only option on the table. Simple one-strike policy. Doesn't matter if refugee or immigrant. because Merkel and a lot of the mainstream press have chosen to be "Gutmenschen". Not just press/merkel. Just look at the people here from Lala-Land, arguing that we have unlimited capacities as long as we want to do it. It's ridiculous. m4ini informs the public: Sexual harrasment is fine, as long as it doesn't target german women
That is so dumb of a conclusion, i don't even know how you'd get there. As usual, i guess.
Where do you deport a Syrian criminal? Can't send him back to Syria, can't send him to transit countries in Europe because he'll just come back in a few weeks unless you close the borders and I doubt Turkey or Lebanon will want him.
It's not about wanting them. It's about, would they take them. I'd argue that a deal could be worked out with erdogan - everything has a price. Since we already lick up to him, might as well take advantage of it.
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On January 06 2016 04:48 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 04:41 cLutZ wrote:On January 06 2016 04:25 Doublemint wrote:On January 06 2016 04:14 Tien wrote:
Germany is too afraid to just publicly say this unlimited refugee PR stunt was a massive mistake. it was anything but a PR stunt... it was probably the only thing merkel ever did before asking the base and/or relying on polls. ironically it is also the only thing she gets her feet held under the fire in the by the public. what would have been the alternative other than letting a good portion of this massive wave of migrants in? letting them die on the border? on the sea? in the truck of a human trafficker like we had in austria? we are still doing that, but we also showed faith and humanity by letting a shit ton of people in. what happens next is the important thing. schengen yes/no? going full hungary? finally reach some agreement in syria and the like and give more funds to make it liveable there in a refugee camp? those are damn hard questions and only solvable on the EU level. on the other hand the EU seems like the least appropriate institution to be able to reach feasible solutions lol. Its entirely plausible that Merkel thought this would be a good PR move, since probably all her friends at cocktail parties and state dinners said thing like "Ooo won't we look so much better than the rest of the countries with their brutish, racist, citizens." I find that very likely because politicians seem to have a massive, systemic, blindspot on immigration. yeah, no. you equated enforcing the law = being able to shoot people if push comes to shove in the other thread. I am not sure I can take you seriously anymore.
I haven't read whatever discussion you are referring to, neither do I think I would care to, but you're allowed to shoot people in civilised countries in self defense, too. 
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On January 06 2016 05:40 dismiss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 04:48 Doublemint wrote:On January 06 2016 04:41 cLutZ wrote:On January 06 2016 04:25 Doublemint wrote:On January 06 2016 04:14 Tien wrote:
Germany is too afraid to just publicly say this unlimited refugee PR stunt was a massive mistake. it was anything but a PR stunt... it was probably the only thing merkel ever did before asking the base and/or relying on polls. ironically it is also the only thing she gets her feet held under the fire in the by the public. what would have been the alternative other than letting a good portion of this massive wave of migrants in? letting them die on the border? on the sea? in the truck of a human trafficker like we had in austria? we are still doing that, but we also showed faith and humanity by letting a shit ton of people in. what happens next is the important thing. schengen yes/no? going full hungary? finally reach some agreement in syria and the like and give more funds to make it liveable there in a refugee camp? those are damn hard questions and only solvable on the EU level. on the other hand the EU seems like the least appropriate institution to be able to reach feasible solutions lol. Its entirely plausible that Merkel thought this would be a good PR move, since probably all her friends at cocktail parties and state dinners said thing like "Ooo won't we look so much better than the rest of the countries with their brutish, racist, citizens." I find that very likely because politicians seem to have a massive, systemic, blindspot on immigration. yeah, no. you equated enforcing the law = being able to shoot people if push comes to shove in the other thread. I am not sure I can take you seriously anymore. I haven't read whatever discussion you are referring to, neither do I think I would care to, but you're allowed to shoot people in civilised countries in self defense, too.
That is not what that discussion was about, though, it was basically this statement by cLutZ with a bit of additional discussion afterwards due to how utterly absurd it is
On January 05 2016 13:12 cLutZ wrote:
I've been trying to impress this upon people in this thread for quite a while...to little effect: If you aren't willing to kill someone over something, you don't actually think there should be a law about it.
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On January 06 2016 04:14 Tien wrote:
Germany is too afraid to just publicly say this unlimited refugee PR stunt was a massive mistake.
Germany is also too afraid to mention that a large part of all violent crime is done by one particular group of immigrants and their descendants. But hey the German media is like the tl mods and you get banned/publicly exorcised if you ever mention that. The ting in cologne has happened for years but I guess they can't ignore it if a thousand get together and hide the aggressors. Also helps that our judicial enforcement is a joke and there is zero chance of any significant punishment.
If you want to import millions of people from middle age so cities you should at least have the foresight to import their medieval punishment since violence is the only thing they seem to understand.
User was temp banned for this post.
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We live in a country in which people's crimes are judged on an individual basis. We don't punish groups of people collectively for crime, or else we would have to throw every white person out for the 800 attacks on refugee centers last year. Mob lynching doesn't exist anymore here.
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On January 06 2016 05:06 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 02:41 Paljas wrote:On January 06 2016 01:25 m4ini wrote:even deportation should be on the table That actually should be the only option on the table. Simple one-strike policy. Doesn't matter if refugee or immigrant. because Merkel and a lot of the mainstream press have chosen to be "Gutmenschen". Not just press/merkel. Just look at the people here from Lala-Land, arguing that we have unlimited capacities as long as we want to do it. It's ridiculous. m4ini informs the public: Sexual harrasment is fine, as long as it doesn't target german women That is so dumb of a conclusion, i don't even know how you'd get there. As usual, i guess.
Then tell me what deporting would do good in this case, except changing the potential victims?
But hey, don't let me get in your way in exploiting this crimes for your anti-refugee politics.
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On January 06 2016 07:31 Nyxisto wrote:
We live in a country in which people's crimes are judged on an individual basis. We don't punish groups of people collectively for crime, or else we would have to throw every white person out for the 800 attacks on refugee centers last year. Mob lynching doesn't exist anymore here.
Yes yes we are so civilized. I grew up in one of the less affluent areas in Frankfurt and the police already capitulated 10 years ago. I have quite a few "friends" who went to school with me and have 10-20 anzeigen but no convictions. They use fun trick which they always brag about. Your comment on we don't push groups is a key. They usual attack with 3-10 people (mostly robberies or just violence if they are bored). If the victims call the police and the police is for once coming in force (which is half of the personnel available in the night) to arrest them, they just laugh and go with them. Then the fun part: they all blame each other. Everyone says someone else did it and they only did a small kick or slap here and there. Usually these cases don't even go to court but in the rare cases they do its 1 year or 2 years later and ends with a slap on the finger. The worst I sentence was 2 years for an iranian boy who used to come over and play when he was 4-5 years old, cute kid. He jumped on some kids head after throwing him down the stairs with his friends.
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The answer to this is crime prevention, a stronger police force and not collective punishment or generalization. That we don't lock people up if we can't prove it is a good thing. This by the way isn't new to Cologne. I live in Cologne, about a year ago Nazis and salafists clashed in a giant mob and dozens of police officers were injured. There is no "new dimension" to this, it's an annual occurrence and a security issue, not a political one.
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Guess it must be really hard to defend guys that commit sexual assaults so thats why you guys are going full retard here with respones.
it's an annual occurrence and a security issue, not a political one.
Wait, so you are telling me that it's perfectly normal in Germany that large groups of "south looking males" sexually harras females on street during new years eve celebration? What the hell man, i'm pretty sure you told like million of times they integrate without problems and are beneficial to society.
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That's not at all what I said. I said that the police not being able to cope with riots and mobs in Cologne is not a new thing. And if you think that rape or sexual assault are primarily a case of stranger danger you are in for a huge surprise.
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well.. mass sexual attacks and "stranger danger" are happening since ".". Fill in the blanks.
Seriously. This event has shown one thing, germany isn't ready or capable of dealing with this.4
and btw. in general, i'm on your side of this debate. get your act together (voting in less spending idiots for the last political eternity).
+Schroder betrayed everything his party was about so... how is the spd still a thing
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Oh, i think im getting this now. You are telling me that police is so used to large groups of Germans sexually assaulting females during riots that when they see those friendly groups of "south looking males" trying to socialize with young girls they don't react! So they just integrated perfectly, they act like native Germans. I see, i see now all is clear.
Is this what you are trying to tell me or you so full of shit that you will defend immigrants/refugees even when they go full mongolid style in your own cities attacking your females.
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Who are "my females"? I don't own any people. Is this some "exotic savages are stealing our women" reaction? The sad fact about sexual assault is that it has always been present during carnival and Oktoberfest and pretty much every large festivity that involve a lot of alcohol. Never has there been an appropriate response from the state and women are complaining about this for god knows how long. I'm not saying that it is okay or defending it, I'm saying that it is ridiculous to act like this is a new thing just because this time the perps are "young males from North Africa". I love the focus on young males. What else are rapists usually? Old females?
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Guess it must be really hard to defend guys that commit sexual assaults so thats why you guys are going full retard here with respones.
Keep going please.
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You suck at reading comprehension.
His statement was that the problem is the police not being able to deal with that kind of situation, no matter whether the perpetrators are "north african looking" or not.
Furthermore, the problem is people, not populations. We judge crimes individually. So if a person or a group of persons decides to commit a crime and assault women, these persons are to blame. Not everyone who looks similar to them or comes from a similar background. It really isn't hard.
I am not defending anyone that attacks women (or men, i am egalitarian in that regard, i think men and women have the same right not to be attacked by strangers). That is obviously bad, and it is also against the law. Thus, if the police is incapable of enforcing the already existing laws, that is a problem.
And according to Nyxisto, situations where the police are overextended and can't deal with it reasonably well happen in cologne from time to time. That is bad. And should be fixed. There are also probably some systemic reasons to that, but i am not from cologne, and thus i really can't say what the best approach to fixing that problem is.
It is also not a reasonable reaction to blame every "north african looking male" for that kind of behaviour. I like to not be blamed by proxy just because i am white if some white asshole decides to commit a crime. I find it only fair to expand that courtesy to everyone else, and judge them for their own actions, not for the actions of people who have a similar skin colour as they do.
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And now you wake up in the country to which you invited bunch of people from culture/region in which females are treated worse than trash. Good luck with keeping your world view integral and trying to control those newcomers.
Because you know, they need to be controlled.
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Are you even responding to our posts or do you have this stuff on hotkeys
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I'm not sure anymore, as i like to respond to reality, not some kind of utopia in which you think you live.
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EPT
