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On October 07 2015 20:31 Banaora wrote:
If you want to call the French Revolution mob justice so be it. The western values we are so proud of did not come from our kings and the establishment.
And I don't see how you can compare lynching and shirt tearing. Or burning his house and shirt tearing. Omg poor guy. How much does he earn at Air France? 1 Mio (just guessing)? He will be able to buy a new shirt. And like the French people said the person who tore it will probably get sued. For me it's all okay.
Our values didn't come from the beheading of the aristocracy either.
How violent is a mob allowed to get then? How many does it take to make up a mob? What grievance allows you to bypass the entire judicial system (and the values which the judicial system is based upon which are integral to the western democracies)?
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You know nothing about me. Assume what you want, my conscience is more at ease than quite a few. You don't even know what my job is...
But keep on refusing to argue the point, that will sure lead you somewhere.
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On October 07 2015 21:48 corumjhaelen wrote:
You know nothing about me. Assume what you want, my conscience is more at ease than quite a few. You don't even know what my job is...
But keep on refusing to argue the point, that will sure lead you somewhere.
No please, I am very curious. Is there some kind of threshold at which some good old fashioned decapitation or shirt ripping or whatever it is you're advocating becomes acceptable? Do only people who earn more than a million euros a year need to go out of their way to help others? Why not those who earn 200k, I mean they have more than enough to live comfortably.
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Your grasp of irony is very telling.
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All I van say is that I support the 1789 revolutionnaries. If you don't just say so.
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Nice, i support the 1291 rebells... But what exactly does that have to do with anything?
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I duggedt reading the line of arguments, particularly whitedog's posts in details for a clear answer to that question.
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On October 07 2015 22:00 Velr wrote:
Nice, i support the 1291 rebells... But what exactly does that have to do with anything?
nope, you start from here:
- can you tell me about a major social change that occurred during peace times?, or one that was peaceful in nature?
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On October 07 2015 22:03 corumjhaelen wrote:
I suggest reading the line of arguments, particularly whitedog's posts in details for a clear answer to that question. In short, yes some people think violence against rich people can be justified, cf 1789. As for the case of Air France, not much happened, no money was stealed, no one was injured as far as I know, justice are trying to prosecute culprit, so what is all the fuss even about ?
And fuck that invisible edit button.
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On October 07 2015 22:09 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2015 22:03 corumjhaelen wrote:
I suggest reading the line of arguments, particularly whitedog's posts in details for a clear answer to that question. In short, yes some people think violence against rich people can be justified, cf 1789. As for the case of Air France, not much happened, no money was stealed, no one was injured as far as I know, justice are trying to prosecute culprit, so what is all the fuss even about ? And fuck that invisible edit button.
The fuss is about people defending a mob who violated the principles of the rule of law and thus the very foundation of western democracies.
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Now if that is not irony, I don't know what is. You want to invoke the spirit of enlightenment. "Liberté, égalité, fraternité!" you proclaim, but not for those rich people, how dare some think of them as our brothers and equals, nah, they forfeited their claim to these ideals when they dared break into a higher socioeconomic stratum.
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There are criminals are not getting caught and punished everyday (and in this case this might not be the case). I don't feel the rule of the law or "the very foundation of western democracies" are being more threatened in this cas than in another one. Give me a break.
@dismiss : you're putting word in my mouth now. Better and better.
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On October 07 2015 22:03 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2015 22:00 Velr wrote:
Nice, i support the 1291 rebells... But what exactly does that have to do with anything? nope, you start from here: - can you tell me about a major social change that occurred during peace times?, or one that was peaceful in nature?
Let's see here, universal suffrage, the civil rights movement, LGBT rights maybe? Basically every change that happened since the second world war?
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On October 07 2015 22:37 corumjhaelen wrote:
There are criminals are not getting caught and punished everyday (and in this case this might not be the case). I don't feel the rule of the law or "the very foundation of western democracies" are being more threatened in this cas than in another one. Give me a break.
I would give you a break if you actually argued the point and not skirted around it.
The point is not whether or not the culprits are caught or convicted in this case. The point is that there are posters who not only condone the actions of the mob, but outright celebrate these actions. Actions which are directly in conflict with the rule of law.
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On October 07 2015 22:41 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2015 22:37 corumjhaelen wrote:
There are criminals are not getting caught and punished everyday (and in this case this might not be the case). I don't feel the rule of the law or "the very foundation of western democracies" are being more threatened in this cas than in another one. Give me a break. I would give you a break if you actually argued the point and not skirted around it. The point is not whether or not the culprits are caught or convicted in this case. The point is that there are posters who not only condone the actions of the mob, but outright celebrate these actions. Actions which are directly in conflict with the rule of law.
Who is ? What post particularly shocked you ? How are they so horrible you feel threatened by people who happen to have a different opinion than yours ?
And I don't particularly approve of this specific case (I just think it is of no importance), but I would also want to point out that disobedience to the law is certainly not in itself in opposition to western civilisation or whatever. From 1789 to civil disobedience.
Also the civil right movement certainly wasn't a walk in the park.
Edit : and all those peaceful decolonization process happened before second world war I guess.
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I don't feel threatened. Perhaps you should refrain from doing what you accuse others of? I'm simply unable to understand the glee with which people can celebrate this instance of mob justice. At this point I'm unsure what point you are trying to make? Even if we call this civil disobedience (which is usually defined as non-violent), I'm unable to see which unjust law it is that this mob refused to obey - I refuse to consider laws against physical violence for unjust.
EDIT:
This guy whose shirt got torn may have ruined thousand of peoples lifes through his actions. Sometimes people like him live in a bubble where they think they are untouchable and now and then why not bring them back to reality.
This was specifically what I took offence to.
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On October 07 2015 18:04 WhiteDog wrote:They tore down their shirts ho my god cry me a river. Show nested quote +France has become an increasingly barbaric and depressing country. The people here are sick to the head, it's a cultural thing. I used to get sad about being bashed for being French (it's happened before when I lived in the USA) during the Iraq war. Now I've come to realize that French bashing is probably entirely justified. It makes me a little numb inside to realize that I'm actually a part of this shit country. And you read Le Monde and the inrockuptibles ? You hate your country deep down because we're so bad and all, "it's cultural". "We" are guilty, whatever it is, even we do the right thing (iraq ?). God damn how stupid those arguments are. Two guy get their shirt destroyed and suddenly it's our entirely culture that is barbaric. 67 million people and a few hundred years of history resumed in one argument over 5000 people getting fired that sadly lead to the end of that poor shirt's life. Please, leave the country and go see how civilized other countries are. Do yourself a favor.
You're RIGHT.
Personal and physical attacks are always such a nice and lovely thing.
+ Show Spoiler +What do you mean they czn get away ? They did something illegal, I'm pretty sure the authorities are doing everythibg for the individuals being prosecuted. What else do you want ?
You see what I mean now? The French are pretty hateful and happy when these sorts of occurrences take place. Lynching is nice; you're an asshole if you complain about it.
My God. This is France's problem. Hate and spite are so rampant. You have extremist parties getting more and more attention, you have lynches which are approved of by the French. Fuck. It's a disgrace to see that this sort of behavior is applauded in France. Yeah, it's barbaric and I'm going to fucking call it out if I want to because as a French person, I do give a shit about what French people do.
Edit: So I read the thread up until now and yeah pretty much confirms my views. I was being somewhat cynical but the unfortunate reality is that a large amount of French people truly believe that lynching and mob justice is the right way to do things. It's fucking pathetic. Comparing the scum of the cgt to the revolutionaries of 1789 is tasteless, crude, boring and disrespectful.
"He's rich, so it is JUSTIFIED that we physically assault him". My fucking God. I can't believe the stuff I read. It's like people and their private property don't even matter. The HR guy from Air France pays his taxes, probably x10 more than the shits who assaulted him, what more do you want from him? Strip him, beat him, make him pay? Disgusting. There's some "fraternité" right there.
It's this appalling mentality which is making France into the shithole of today. Him versus me. The rich vs the poor. The French versus immigrants. Fucking shit, the lot of it. Some French people have no fucking self-respect and make the entire country look bad with their antics. Absolutely terrible. Horrible.
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On October 07 2015 22:38 dismiss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2015 22:03 xM(Z wrote:On October 07 2015 22:00 Velr wrote:
Nice, i support the 1291 rebells... But what exactly does that have to do with anything? nope, you start from here: - can you tell me about a major social change that occurred during peace times?, or one that was peaceful in nature? Let's see here, universal suffrage, the civil rights movement, LGBT rights maybe? Basically every change that happened since the second world war?
totally peaceful, yep.
The First French Republic was the first nation that adopted universal male suffrage in 1792.
In the history of France, the First Republic, officially the French Republic (French: République française), was founded on 22 September 1792 during the French Revolution
The Civil Rights Movement or 1960s Civil Rights Movement, sometimes anachronistically referred to as the "African-American Civil Rights Movement" although the term "African-Americans" was not used in the 1960s, encompasses social movements in the United States whose goals were to end racial segregation and discrimination against black Americans and to secure legal recognition and federal protection of the citizenship rights enumerated in the Constitution and federal law.
A wave of inner city riots in black communities from 1964 through 1970 undercut support from the white community. The emergence of the Black Power movement, which lasted from about 1966 to 1975, challenged the established black leadership for its cooperative attitude and its nonviolence, and instead demanded political and economic self-sufficiency.
and don't even get me started on LGBT 'cause i'll probably get banned for speaking about it.
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On October 07 2015 21:45 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2015 20:31 Banaora wrote:
If you want to call the French Revolution mob justice so be it. The western values we are so proud of did not come from our kings and the establishment.
And I don't see how you can compare lynching and shirt tearing. Or burning his house and shirt tearing. Omg poor guy. How much does he earn at Air France? 1 Mio (just guessing)? He will be able to buy a new shirt. And like the French people said the person who tore it will probably get sued. For me it's all okay. Our values didn't come from the beheading of the aristocracy either. How violent is a mob allowed to get then? How many does it take to make up a mob? What grievance allows you to bypass the entire judicial system (and the values which the judicial system is based upon which are integral to the western democracies)?
It all depends. (Today or 300 years ago. According to which laws. According to whom you ask.)
The shirt tearing will get prosecuted and I think that is good. That does not disqualify the protest as a whole though.
I actually don't know what you want. No one argues for bypassing the judicial system in such a situation today.
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EPT
