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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On February 26 2022 04:53 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2022 04:08 Narw wrote:On February 26 2022 03:57 zeo wrote:On February 25 2022 23:55 Gorsameth wrote:On February 25 2022 23:49 LegalLord wrote:
There's been quite a lot of noise about potential negotiations for a ceasefire in Russian news for about the last 10 hours. The concrete proposal seems to be "let's sit down in Minsk" which I suspect is meant to be symbolic. Is the invasion going that badly? Oo There is an extreme amount of botting and shilling going on now on Russian channels, though that's normal. This morning they started handing out automatic rifles in Kiev to civilians and are trying to form their own Volkssturm. Opposition MP's from the Ukrainian parliament are asking for the government to step down, a few of them openly offering themselves to Putin to become the next President of the Ukraine. Forces loyal to the Kiev government bombed bridges to slow the advance into the city but as I mentioned in the first sentence, its kind of over if they had to resort to handing automatic weapons out to civilians and forming a Volkssturm. Handing out Molotov cocktails to people... its just... not what a stable government does. Volkssturm, really? Right off the provided script... you paid off Russian troll, that you are being tolerrated here is just abysmal. Two days ago they started conscription of military reserve males aged 18 to 60. Today they lifted age restrictions, accepting anybody and everybody and handing out guns to form militiashttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-army-age-lifted-b2023117.htmlTell me what other government has done this since Germany 1945. What word is used for the above mentioned give guns to 14 - 85 year olds and I'll use that one. Child soldiers? Geriatric soldiers? What?
You already did in the previous paragraph.
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Y'all have any perspective on the potential benefits and drawbacks of kicking Russia off SWIFT?
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Another Russian advance repelled for now
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For obvious reasons, Ukraine is only reporting on Russian losses and Russia is only reporting on Ukrainian losses. These are both sides from late afternoon, to be taken with a grain of salt:
And auto-translation of the Russian press release:
"Six combat aircraft, one helicopter, five unmanned aerial vehicles were shot down. 67 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 16 multiple launch rocket systems, 87 units of special military vehicles were destroyed," Konashenkov said.
He also said that 211 military facilities were put out of action in Ukraine, including 17 command posts and communication centers, 19 S-300 and Osa anti-aircraft missile systems, and 39 radar stations.
https://www.interfax.ru/russia/824640
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On February 26 2022 04:53 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2022 04:08 Narw wrote:On February 26 2022 03:57 zeo wrote:On February 25 2022 23:55 Gorsameth wrote:On February 25 2022 23:49 LegalLord wrote:
There's been quite a lot of noise about potential negotiations for a ceasefire in Russian news for about the last 10 hours. The concrete proposal seems to be "let's sit down in Minsk" which I suspect is meant to be symbolic. Is the invasion going that badly? Oo There is an extreme amount of botting and shilling going on now on Russian channels, though that's normal. This morning they started handing out automatic rifles in Kiev to civilians and are trying to form their own Volkssturm. Opposition MP's from the Ukrainian parliament are asking for the government to step down, a few of them openly offering themselves to Putin to become the next President of the Ukraine. Forces loyal to the Kiev government bombed bridges to slow the advance into the city but as I mentioned in the first sentence, its kind of over if they had to resort to handing automatic weapons out to civilians and forming a Volkssturm. Handing out Molotov cocktails to people... its just... not what a stable government does. Volkssturm, really? Right off the provided script... you paid off Russian troll, that you are being tolerrated here is just abysmal. Two days ago they started conscription of military reserve males aged 18 to 60. Today they lifted age restrictions, accepting anybody and everybody and handing out guns to form militias https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-army-age-lifted-b2023117.htmlTell me what other government has done this since Germany 1945. What word is used for the above mentioned give guns to 14 - 85 year olds and I'll use that one. Child soldiers? Geriatric soldiers? What?
The Soviet Union, you dimwit?
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Ukrainians did report losing the airport near Kiyv before they took it back, didn't they?
2,8k personnel losses haha that's a tiny bit optimistic.
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On February 26 2022 03:57 zeo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2022 23:55 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 23:49 LegalLord wrote:
There's been quite a lot of noise about potential negotiations for a ceasefire in Russian news for about the last 10 hours. The concrete proposal seems to be "let's sit down in Minsk" which I suspect is meant to be symbolic. Is the invasion going that badly? Oo There is an extreme amount of botting and shilling going on now on Russian channels, though that's normal. This morning they started handing out automatic rifles in Kiev to civilians and are trying to form their own Volkssturm. Opposition MP's from the Ukrainian parliament are asking for the government to step down, a few of them openly offering themselves to Putin to become the next President of the Ukraine. Anyway, here is what I gathered from moderate pro-russian sources about how operations are going. This is all usually accompanied by video and other evidence but who knows, there is complete and utter radio silence within the Russian military. They are not using any of their new tech, presumably to hide their capabilities from NATO. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/zIQSba6.jpg) Very outdated map but just so you get the picture1. On the Crimean front seems like Kherson is now completely under the control of the Russian army and they have pushed to Mykolaiv. Towards the east Melitopol is under complete control, and more importantly Berdiansk is either captured or surrounded depending on who you ask. This opens up the main strategic line towards Zaporizhzhia and Dnipropetrovsk, as well as a pincer move on the now less strategically important port city of Mariupol. Basically no resistance yesterday, with Kiev sending troops today to Mykolaiv, destroying bridges ect. 2. The Donbass contact line is very active, the main objective is to keep the large bulk of the Kiev army bogged down so they cannot send units to relieve other fronts. A few settlements taken by the Republics but no major breakthroughs, heavy losses on both sides. 3. The most surprising advance was at the north-eastern border, with what was supposed to be poking and prodding operations turned into the encirclement of Harkov. Keep in mind that Russia only deployed around 30,000 - 60,000 troops the first day. These forces are primarily concerned with storming and securing key points (towns/cities/roads), after which wait for additional support to arrive to secure the area / keep the encirclement. Harkov is a city of 1.5 million, with Azov battalions and other territorial units ready to fight in civilian areas. Plan is to encircle and keep them there so they don't break out until Kiev falls. In general the Kiev army is not defending terrain outside of cities and is falling back to populated areas in this region. So advance > secure countryside > wait for reinforcements that slowly push into populated areas > advance again towards Dnipropetrovsk. Strategic goal is to encircle on a massive scale the 60.000 Kiev units at the Donbass front. 4. The most important theater is of course Kiev. Last night the Russians dropped 200-300 VDV paratroopers deep inside Kiev territory and took over Gostomol airport while at the same time piercing through the lightly defended Chernobyl zone. Its 130km between Pripyat and Gostomol through difficult terrain and it began a race against time for the Chernobyl force to link up with and secure the bridgehead being held by the paratroopers. At stake was the entire western flank of the city of Kiev, with the amount of hysterics on twitter everything and the kitchen sink was thrown at the paratroopers entrenched at Gostomol but they held on at the airport. Russians cruise missiled and bombed everything close to and on the way to the airport overnight and today they linked up with the Russian forces coming to secure the bridgehead. With the entire Western and Eastern flank of the city under control, full scale encirclement of the city is expected tonight if it already hasn't been encircled with special forces units pushing into the suburbs from the North. Forces loyal to the Kiev government bombed bridges to slow the advance into the city but as I mentioned in the first sentence, its kind of over if they had to resort to handing automatic weapons out to civilians and forming a Volkssturm. Handing out Molotov cocktails to people... its just... not what a stable government does.
Volkssturm? Really? Comparing Ukrainains to nazis? You have no shame.
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Obviously hard to know in the fog of war but I think the previous couple of posts attempt to answer.
I wonder what is meant to be meant here by "third of the army" being gone. Hardware, or personnel? Almost certainly the former but it bugs me that it doesn't clarify.
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Around midday today, UK experts estimated at least 450 killed on Russian side. I think 1k might be realistic by now, considering how intensive fights are.
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Nothing obviously certain, but some indications that at least the Russian losses have been significant. Earlier today Ukrainian MoD tweeted that there have been more than 1000 Russian KIA, not sure if that was cumulative or just today. Russians reported 200 Ukrainian casualties from the assault on the Hostomel airport but that's all I've seen from there.
Underneath some twitter bits that I've seen:
This was about Russians preparing medical help:
https://twitter.com/EJ_Burrows/status/1497252061678813187?t=GW2DBXpnyCCtZNz4ffozTA&s=19
This was retweeted by an account I've been getting a lot of info from, I've not tried to cross-check it myself. Reporting Russian losses both in battle and due to supply lines failing:
https://twitter.com/NotWoofers/status/1497292189868646405?t=_z3m6YhhDHOWtSGvIuLpVA&s=19
Start of a thread on reported and geolocated losses, from both sides. Some tweets contain images or video of soldiers KIA in this one:
https://twitter.com/Danspiun/status/1496799918685519872?t=nani_ellRHAIpPD1ydvubA&s=19
Quick impression is that Russian troops are definitely bleeding machinery. Some other clips and bits I've seen have shown fairly poor discipline and/or preparation from the mechanized Russian troops, indicative maybe of how varied the training and morale is among the invasion force.
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Zelensky and all top government officials are not hiding, major of Kharkiv is also with the people, try to imagine something similar by kremlin?
Zelensky already won my vote for the next elections and hopefully a simple comedian can crash a dictator, what a story it will be
I've seen a bunch (about 20-30 only today) of bloodbath videos with demolished russian tanks/heavy armor/grads/dead soldiers etc, sharing just a single one (Irpen town, 20 km from Kyiv), but be careful it's a brutal one + Show Spoiler +
Also got an interesting info from Crimea, reports about 50% of new conscript forces deserter indicating low morale
Russian forces were trying to get into Kharkiv two days in a row and both times were repelled with heavy casualties, meanwhile kremlin officials reports 0 casualties, can you fucking imagine that? They don't give a shit about their own people
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On February 26 2022 04:57 Oukka wrote:
The clarification on that was reported already at around 12:30 GMT by for example BBC. They are not taking minors, but over 60yos can volunteer.
I highly doubt the BBC will mention minors are being armed. From the videos I've seen there are crates out in the open and you just go up to some guy and they give you the gun an ammunition. Not like they were checking for id's or writing down who they gave automatic weapons too.
They had eight years to prepare the defenses of the city. Under the pretense that they were invaded by Russia large sums of money were pumped into their military complex by NATO member states and instead of defenses went all into the pockets of the Kiev elites. How else can you explain telling your own civilians to kamikaze into Russian forces barely 24h hours into active operations?
They haven't deployed any modern equipment, basically using 30 year old tech and feeling out international reactions while they take over the part of the country that kind of doesn't care if they are there so they are being very very careful not to touch the civilian population. Any civilian carrying arms is not a civilian and will not be treated like a civilian.
When Russia is done cleaning up the forces in eastern Ukraine and Kiev do you really think they will be careful not to use too much force in western Ukraine? Resistance and open hostility towards Russia gets you the same treatment the USA would give you. Shock and awe carpet bombing and long range artillery for days and days after which they walk over the ruins while whistling. Its sick and perverted to sacrifice the population of western Ukraine so you can feel good at your keyboard typing away in your first world bubble about 'sticking it to Putin'. Those people are going to have the same kind of time the Iraqis, Syrians, Lybians, Afganies had with the US. Not a good one.
Your government handing you molotov cocktails to throw at professional soldiers is not stunning and brave. It gets you killed to stir up international sympathy. After one fucking day, thats the big plan. Go your your bunker and sacrifice the people.
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On February 26 2022 05:45 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2022 04:57 Oukka wrote:
The clarification on that was reported already at around 12:30 GMT by for example BBC. They are not taking minors, but over 60yos can volunteer. I highly doubt the BBC will mention minors are being armed. From the videos I've seen there are crates out in the open and you just go up to some guy and they give you the gun an ammunition. Not like they were checking for id's or writing down who they gave automatic weapons too. They had eight years to prepare the defenses of the city. Under the pretense that they were invaded by Russia large sums of money were pumped into their military complex by NATO member states and instead of defenses went all into the pockets of the Kiev elites. How else can you explain telling your own civilians to kamikaze into Russian forces barely 24h hours into active operations? They haven't deployed any modern equipment, basically using 30 year old tech and feeling out international reactions while they take over the part of the country that kind of doesn't care if they are there so they are being very very careful not to touch the civilian population. Any civilian carrying arms is not a civilian and will not be treated like a civilian. When Russia is done cleaning up the forces in eastern Ukraine and Kiev do you really think they will be careful not to use too much force in western Ukraine? Resistance and open hostility towards Russia gets you the same treatment the USA would give you. Shock and awe carpet bombing and long range artillery for days and days after which they walk over the ruins while whistling. Its sick and perverted to sacrifice the population of western Ukraine so you can feel good at your keyboard typing away in your first world bubble about 'sticking it to Putin'. Those people are going to have the same kind of time the Iraqis, Syrians, Lybians, Afganies had with the US. Not a good one. Your government handing you molotov cocktails to throw at professional soldiers is not stunning and brave. It gets you killed to stir up international sympathy. After one fucking day, thats the big plan. Go your your bunker and sacrifice the people.
I hope, for your sake, that you're getting paid to post this stuff, and don't actually believe it.
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On February 26 2022 05:50 Just_a_Moth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2022 05:45 zeo wrote:On February 26 2022 04:57 Oukka wrote:
The clarification on that was reported already at around 12:30 GMT by for example BBC. They are not taking minors, but over 60yos can volunteer. I highly doubt the BBC will mention minors are being armed. From the videos I've seen there are crates out in the open and you just go up to some guy and they give you the gun an ammunition. Not like they were checking for id's or writing down who they gave automatic weapons too. They had eight years to prepare the defenses of the city. Under the pretense that they were invaded by Russia large sums of money were pumped into their military complex by NATO member states and instead of defenses went all into the pockets of the Kiev elites. How else can you explain telling your own civilians to kamikaze into Russian forces barely 24h hours into active operations? They haven't deployed any modern equipment, basically using 30 year old tech and feeling out international reactions while they take over the part of the country that kind of doesn't care if they are there so they are being very very careful not to touch the civilian population. Any civilian carrying arms is not a civilian and will not be treated like a civilian. When Russia is done cleaning up the forces in eastern Ukraine and Kiev do you really think they will be careful not to use too much force in western Ukraine? Resistance and open hostility towards Russia gets you the same treatment the USA would give you. Shock and awe carpet bombing and long range artillery for days and days after which they walk over the ruins while whistling. Its sick and perverted to sacrifice the population of western Ukraine so you can feel good at your keyboard typing away in your first world bubble about 'sticking it to Putin'. Those people are going to have the same kind of time the Iraqis, Syrians, Lybians, Afganies had with the US. Not a good one. Your government handing you molotov cocktails to throw at professional soldiers is not stunning and brave. It gets you killed to stir up international sympathy. After one fucking day, thats the big plan. Go your your bunker and sacrifice the people. I hope, for your sake, that you're getting paid to post this stuff, and don't actually believe it.
And that your country is never in the situation Ukraine finds itself today.
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On February 26 2022 05:45 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2022 04:57 Oukka wrote:
The clarification on that was reported already at around 12:30 GMT by for example BBC. They are not taking minors, but over 60yos can volunteer. I highly doubt the BBC will mention minors are being armed. From the videos I've seen there are crates out in the open and you just go up to some guy and they give you the gun an ammunition. Not like they were checking for id's or writing down who they gave automatic weapons too. They had eight years to prepare the defenses of the city. Under the pretense that they were invaded by Russia large sums of money were pumped into their military complex by NATO member states and instead of defenses went all into the pockets of the Kiev elites. How else can you explain telling your own civilians to kamikaze into Russian forces barely 24h hours into active operations? They haven't deployed any modern equipment, basically using 30 year old tech and feeling out international reactions while they take over the part of the country that kind of doesn't care if they are there so they are being very very careful not to touch the civilian population. Any civilian carrying arms is not a civilian and will not be treated like a civilian. When Russia is done cleaning up the forces in eastern Ukraine and Kiev do you really think they will be careful not to use too much force in western Ukraine? Resistance and open hostility towards Russia gets you the same treatment the USA would give you. Shock and awe carpet bombing and long range artillery for days and days after which they walk over the ruins while whistling. Its sick and perverted to sacrifice the population of western Ukraine so you can feel good at your keyboard typing away in your first world bubble about 'sticking it to Putin'. Those people are going to have the same kind of time the Iraqis, Syrians, Lybians, Afganies had with the US. Not a good one. Your government handing you molotov cocktails to throw at professional soldiers is not stunning and brave. It gets you killed to stir up international sympathy. After one fucking day, thats the big plan. Go your your bunker and sacrifice the people.
Really? "Under the pretext that they were invaded by russia?"
They were invaded by Russia. Russia annexed crimea. That is an invasion. Russia continued to fight them in the "separatist" zones. And now Russia is invading them even harder.
Is is amazing that you are here trying to find reasons to blame the country which is defending itself from an invasion, for trying to defend itself from an invasion.
I know that you are a Putin bot. But seriously, do you not have any shame? You are arguing that the people at fault here are the ones trying to defend themselves from russian aggression, not the aggressors. And now you are once again pushing the russian propaganda that people should just surrender to russia, and it will be over quickly.
Would you also say that women should let themselves be raped, because if they try to fight back the rapist might get angry and kill them?
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On February 26 2022 05:29 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2022 04:53 zeo wrote:On February 26 2022 04:08 Narw wrote:On February 26 2022 03:57 zeo wrote:On February 25 2022 23:55 Gorsameth wrote:On February 25 2022 23:49 LegalLord wrote:
There's been quite a lot of noise about potential negotiations for a ceasefire in Russian news for about the last 10 hours. The concrete proposal seems to be "let's sit down in Minsk" which I suspect is meant to be symbolic. Is the invasion going that badly? Oo There is an extreme amount of botting and shilling going on now on Russian channels, though that's normal. This morning they started handing out automatic rifles in Kiev to civilians and are trying to form their own Volkssturm. Opposition MP's from the Ukrainian parliament are asking for the government to step down, a few of them openly offering themselves to Putin to become the next President of the Ukraine. Forces loyal to the Kiev government bombed bridges to slow the advance into the city but as I mentioned in the first sentence, its kind of over if they had to resort to handing automatic weapons out to civilians and forming a Volkssturm. Handing out Molotov cocktails to people... its just... not what a stable government does. Volkssturm, really? Right off the provided script... you paid off Russian troll, that you are being tolerrated here is just abysmal. Two days ago they started conscription of military reserve males aged 18 to 60. Today they lifted age restrictions, accepting anybody and everybody and handing out guns to form militias https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-army-age-lifted-b2023117.htmlTell me what other government has done this since Germany 1945. What word is used for the above mentioned give guns to 14 - 85 year olds and I'll use that one. Child soldiers? Geriatric soldiers? What? The Soviet Union, you dimwit?
So the Kiev government is emulating... the Soviet Union? An interesting take. Is there a Russian word for arming civilians with no combat experience? I'll use that one, seems more fitting here to be honest.
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Thanks for info guys. Low morale of Russian army sounds encouraging, they really have no good cause. I'm really glad Ukrainians are putting up a fight as we didn't do much resistance in 1944, sadly.. Hopefully Ukrainian army inspires our forces as we've often been divided between east and west, being lied for decades that Russians are our "brothers". Not my brothers, at least as long as they have leaders like Lenin, Stalin, Putin, etc.
Slava Ukraini! Слава Україні!
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If I had already decided being a soldier was a good idea for the right reasons, I would be traveling to Ukraine to fight for them. I would not be useful to them, for a variety of reasons, but mostly because I don't have the mental fortitude to kill someone. I wish there was a way to help fund people going to help.
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One more good news, hopefully it's not too late, but we might need more at this point
edit: apparently it was a bit incorrect reporting, but the main topic remains the same
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EPT
