Isla Vista Shooting - Page 43

On May 30 2014 02:33 gruff wrote:

Not all would be in such a position to have a caring family though.

On May 30 2014 02:38 barbsq wrote:

true. But it would help some people, and do so without affecting the rest of the population. Also, I don't think creating a policy to take care of all individuals and all situations is productive.

On May 30 2014 02:20 Cynry wrote:
Wow, I studied that a long time ago, but let me try.

All book long, the main character tries to get in "bourgeoisie", which was the class under nobles, basically rich people with their silly manners (at that time).
So all he does is try to emulate said manners, getting advice from "experts" of all kind. But in the end, all he does is making these experts a bit richer. He's getting fooled, and that was all I said

Now, to further expand on that and PUA (can't believe I got dragged in talking about that..), I would think that the same thing is happening in some form. PUA moslty profits those who sell stuff about it.
Those who achieve "girls" (I haaaaate that way of seeing stuff but whatever) are most likely just a bit more confident than they would be without PUA techniques, and that can be the difference between actually trying and seeing you as a loser from the start.
That's just my point of view, of course, and I don't know much about PUA. Nor do I want to, I achieved a good level of confidence for my own sake, not to pick up girls.

Edit : actually, he was a bourgeois trying to become a noble. Same stuff, different class, irrelevant.

On May 30 2014 03:28 MoltkeWarding wrote:


I would take this concept further. Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme was an aristocratic satire (Moliere wrote for a court audience) of the socially ambitious bourgeoisie. Monsieur Jourdan was a bourgeois who attempted to ape aristocratic tastes and manners and made a fool of himself, because he was attempting to acquire by education what was naturally acquired by birth. Written in a different social context, Monsieur Jourdan would have been a lampoon of the emancipated Jew.

The situation of a base figure pretending to be higher than his nature is not only the essence of this comedy; it is the essence of all comedy. However, for the comedy to work, that figure must not only be base, he must be unaware of his baseness. What makes the character of Monsieur Jourdan work is his obliviousness.

When that character loses his obliviousness, and realises his baseness, the pathos of the play is transformed from the comic to the tragic. The response of the audience turns from laughter to hushed sympathy at the plight of pride brought low. Shakespeare's Timon of Athens is such an example of this.

When I first saw Rodger's youtube videos, I thought he was ridiculous as well; a puffed up loser. Reading his manifesto though, I became aware of his awareness, and the figure doesn't quite seem so funny anymore.

On May 30 2014 04:21 Cynry wrote:
@MoltkeWarding I assume you didn't think I was drawing any parallel between Jourdain and Rodger, because you just did that on your own. Although it wasn't my point, I like where you took that concept, but I never thought of Rodger as funny or ridiculous.
Both are vain and capricious, Jourdain wants to get to a better position, Rodger wanted to get out of negative one (being virgin). Not sure there's much more to that though.

About his manifesto, how expanded was his self awareness ? Did he saw what was the issue with girls, which I assume was his attitude ? Did he saw that his reactions to all this and consequent plans were...crazy ?

On May 30 2014 04:27 farvacola wrote:
There is very little in any of the material Rogers produced that suggests that his self-awareness comes anywhere near that of Timon of Athens or Monsieur Jourdan. Life imitates art both in truth and illusion.

On May 30 2014 05:02 Cynry wrote:
Thing is, all that to me is just his "crazy delirium" (lack of better word) going further and deeper. Building some sort of reasoning to justifiy your mindset and acts isn't self awareness.
Self awareness would be something like "I am an overall attractive guy, if I can't get girls there's probably something wrong with me that I haven't seen yet". Anything like that in his manifesto ?

On May 30 2014 05:02 Cynry wrote:
Thing is, all that to me is just his "crazy delirium" (lack of better word) going further and deeper. Building some sort of reasoning to justifiy your mindset and acts isn't self awareness.
Self awareness would be something like "I am an overall attractive guy, if I can't get girls there's probably something wrong with me that I haven't seen yet". Anything like that in his manifesto ?

On May 30 2014 05:13 MoltkeWarding wrote:


I do not see how that question is demonstrably different from what he pursued in his memoirs. The question is merely seeking answers, which he did. The existence of the question does not imply however the existence of an answer. When the existence of an answer is presumed, that leads to rationalisation.

On May 30 2014 05:28 Cynry wrote:


I guess my question then is : where was he seeking answers ? Was he putting himself in the victim position, which seems to be the case (that's because of what was done to me, that's because women are dumb and thus reject me etc) or did he ever consider himself to be the problem ?

On May 30 2014 05:29 Plansix wrote:
Agreed. His life is sad, but most murders lives are in some way. It doesn't make up for the fear and horror he inflicted on the people he killed. He stabbed his roommate to death. He also expressed a desire to kill his 6 year old step brother. Not matter how sad his life was, it doesn't justify the fear and pain he inflicted on his victims.