UK Politics Mega-thread - Page 639

On June 11 2025 22:43 Razyda wrote:
Seems like NI also have a riot problems:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jun/11/second-night-rioting-ballymena-police-officers-injured-northern-ireland

I really start think that best thing to do for western countries would be to offshore their protest to places like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, or such. I am confident that behaviour of protesters would improve dramatically.

On June 11 2025 23:38 Simberto wrote:


Yeah, but you seem to be very much in favor of oppressive regimes who are "good" at handling protest.

On June 12 2025 17:25 Hat Trick of Today wrote:
?

The far right in Northern Ireland are trying to instigate a response. This is not the same as the majority of people protesting ICE because ICE are generally acting like a bunch of shitlords with zero accountability. The difference here is that I don’t think the government in Northern Ireland want shit to go down so I don’t think it’ll go anywhere substantial.

In the same way as the far right in Northern Ireland, this US administration is purposely boosting tensions by ramping up bullshit ICE raids, intentionally shooting journalists and sending in a pretty unprepared military for the optics. They want shit to go down so they can make a show of force, the chaos is intentional because they’re desperately looking for a reason. It’s dead obvious for anyone who isn’t in the US that the police isn’t even attempting to de-escalate the situation.

These guys aren’t brainiacs, they’re basically one step away from telling everyone they want to run over the “left” with tanks (and many on Twitter are already saying it). If the military did run over protestors with tanks, they’d be more than a couple of people on Teamliquid arguing that said protestors had it coming.

If ICE wanted to help crack down on illegal immigration, they’d have an amazing day cracking down on illegal undocumented Irish immigrants amongst other not-Latino ethnic groups who purposely overstay their Visas. It’d be like shooting fish in a barrel. But they’re intentionally running around purposely making a show of it to a point that people in the administration have unironically floated making ICE raids into a reality TV programme. It’s not really about combatting illegal immigration, it’s about making as much noise as possible.

The suggestion that the “West” should just send protesters to authoritarian regimes for behaviour correction is weird because all of this is intentional.

On June 12 2025 20:54 Razyda wrote:


It is not that, I just believe that once you cross certain threshold in violence you accepting any and each response you get. Also "offshoring protests" comment is somewhat obvious sarcasm.



Bolded - the thing with it is that if you get attacked and have your livelihood destroyed, it doesnt matter whether people who did it were shouting "stop ICE", or "kick out immigrants". See protests themselves are fine, the issue start when protesters start acting violent towards others.

On June 12 2025 21:52 WombaT wrote:
The problem with your threshold is it’s from fantasy land. It’s effectively zero. Which isn’t how shit gets done. I certainly don’t [i]want[/i/] riots either. But some don’t begin that way, they spark due to law enforcement cracking down on peaceful protests too.

It kind of does matter why you get attacked. Or if you’re even attacked at all. Maybe not to an individual, but in the wider sense it does.

As with the Southport riots, these ones we’re seeing in Northern Ireland are explicitly anti-foreign/foreign origin. And completely unrelated people are being targeted. People are terrified, people are sticking up ‘I’m from x country that isn’t Romania’ flags on their residences. Understandable but I think deluded. The knuckle draggers aren’t going to draw a distinction between Bulgaria and Romania.

Now, is that the case with these LA riots, really? Inconvenient yes, illegitimate? Sure some can claim that too. But it is basically left wing protestors versus law enforcement at this juncture.

On June 12 2025 21:58 Jockmcplop wrote:


I don't think its understandable to actually try and kill people because you're frustrated politically though. I get why the protests, but attempted murder is over the line for me.

The thing is, these protests and riots are a prime candidate for concern trolling on all sides of the aisle.

I don't for one second think anyone who is pretending to be outraged about a random stranger's car being on fire is actually outraged about it. They just want to score political points and make immigrants out to be the worst of the worst of humanity.

On June 12 2025 21:46 Jockmcplop wrote:


I think its worth asking how far a protest can go exactly before its gone too far and is definitely over the line.

Is setting fire to cars where people are drawing the line? Because to be honest, setting fire to a car is property damage, which in comparison to having a guy bust in your door and send you to an El Salvadorian torture camp because he saw a tattoo of an M on your arm and M is for Mexico really isn't that bad.

Am I expected to virtue signal and pretend that I'm outraged when I see cars on fire?

Businesses is obviously a step further. Not a fan of random businesses being burned down. If its targeted that's a little more comparable.

Of course, the Ireland protests are much worse than burning cars or property. They are trying to burn places down that currently home refugees, asylum seekers and illegal immigrants, which is attempted mass murder.

On June 12 2025 21:46 Jockmcplop wrote:


I think its worth asking how far a protest can go exactly before its gone too far and is definitely over the line.

Is setting fire to cars where people are drawing the line? Because to be honest, setting fire to a car is property damage, which in comparison to having a guy bust in your door and send you to an El Salvadorian torture camp because he saw a tattoo of an M on your arm and M is for Mexico really isn't that bad.

Am I expected to virtue signal and pretend that I'm outraged when I see cars on fire?

Businesses is obviously a step further. Not a fan of random businesses being burned down. If its targeted that's a little more comparable.

Of course, the Ireland protests are much worse than burning cars or property. They are trying to burn places down that currently home refugees, asylum seekers and illegal immigrants, which is attempted mass murder.

On June 12 2025 21:52 WombaT wrote:
The problem with your threshold is it’s from fantasy land. It’s effectively zero. Which isn’t how shit gets done. I certainly don’t [i]want[/i/] riots either. But some don’t begin that way, they spark due to law enforcement cracking down on peaceful protests too.

It kind of does matter why you get attacked. Or if you’re even attacked at all. Maybe not to an individual, but in the wider sense it does.

As with the Southport riots, these ones we’re seeing in Northern Ireland are explicitly anti-foreign/foreign origin. And completely unrelated people are being targeted. People are terrified, people are sticking up ‘I’m from x country that isn’t Romania’ flags on their residences. Understandable but I think deluded. The knuckle draggers aren’t going to draw a distinction between Bulgaria and Romania.

Now, is that the case with these LA riots, really? Inconvenient yes, illegitimate? Sure some can claim that too. But it is basically left wing protestors versus law enforcement at this juncture.

On June 12 2025 23:25 Razyda wrote:


I think this is fair point to decide that protest went to far. Similarly as looting shops, breaking and entering homes or assaulting people.

"Is setting fire to cars where people are drawing the line? Because to be honest, setting fire to a car is property damage, which in comparison to having a guy bust in your door and send you to an El Salvadorian torture camp because he saw a tattoo of an M on your arm and M is for Mexico really isn't that bad."

This 2 are separated issues though. The fact that someone send someone to torture camp doesnt justify burning a John Smith car, or destroying Jack Black business.

I wouldnt say virtue signaling or outraged (although I guess you would be mildly annoyed if it happened to be your car). I think it is not exactly controversial opinion, that being part of the mob doesnt mean you are free to destroy others property.



"The problem with your threshold is it’s from fantasy land. It’s effectively zero. Which isn’t how shit gets done. I certainly don’t [i]want[/i/] riots either. But some don’t begin that way, they spark due to law enforcement cracking down on peaceful protests too. "

I disagree, would say that burning cars, looted stores and assaults are decent indicators. Yes some do begin due to law enforcement cracking down on peaceful protest, (although I would say in UK, most of EU an US it is rather rare), but I would say more start just because bunch of idiots feels untouchable when they are part of large group of people.

"It kind of does matter why you get attacked. Or if you’re even attacked at all. Maybe not to an individual, but in the wider sense it does. "

I am talking about situation where you get attacked because you happen to live on the street where riots happen.

"As with the Southport riots, these ones we’re seeing in Northern Ireland are explicitly anti-foreign/foreign origin. And completely unrelated people are being targeted. People are terrified, people are sticking up ‘I’m from x country that isn’t Romania’ flags on their residences. Understandable but I think deluded. The knuckle draggers aren’t going to draw a distinction between Bulgaria and Romania.

Now, is that the case with these LA riots, really? Inconvenient yes, illegitimate? Sure some can claim that too. But it is basically left wing protestors versus law enforcement at this juncture."

I think this is where we disagree. I dont think rioters and protesters are the same group of people. I am somewhat confident that the same people rioting now to "Stop the ICE" would be rioting if in 1 month time there happen to be protest to "Help the ICE".

On June 12 2025 23:36 WombaT wrote:

Where are you getting that confidence from?