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looks like Gove's backstabbing is failing?
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On July 06 2016 03:36 Gorsameth wrote:looks like Gove's backstabbing is failing?
Considering his backstabbing that is a good result, I would expect him to split Fox's vote 50:50 with Leadsom but pick up a lot of Crabb's MPs without any going to Leadsom which would put his tally above hers. Also there is talk of May supporters voting for Gove to stop Leadsom also because they believe she is a bigger threat in the membership vote. So I wouldn't count out Gove just yet, I think everyone is underestimating him again which is certainly to his benefit.
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So Theresa May has more than 50% in the first round?
Why even continue lol.
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On July 06 2016 04:13 Laurens wrote:
So Theresa May has more than 50% in the first round?
Why even continue lol.
Sounds like they are not just going for whoever gets a majority but the winner of a 2 person vote
The three remaining contenders are due to face a second MPs' vote on Thursday, followed by a final round next Tuesday unless any of the candidates has dropped out by that time.
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German media said, the final vote between the 2 candidates remaining would be a vote by the entire party. While those preliminary votes are just done by their MP's.
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On July 06 2016 04:26 mahrgell wrote:
German media said, the final vote between the 2 candidates remaining would be a vote by the entire party. While those preliminary votes are just done by their MP's.
Ahh I see, cheers
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On July 06 2016 01:11 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 00:24 WhiteDog wrote:At least the Brexit delivered. The whining is strong in europe, and I love it. So much integrity and "working for the people". That whole thing was a giant political powerplay and atm it looks like everyone lost for 0 gains. You take voters for idiots really ... Anybody with some education on the current europe would have predicted what happened. You're from switzerland you should know what the UK is trying to achieve : they aim to be a freerider, like your country, because the country that actually follow the rules in germania are getting crushed. The british government is already reducing taxation on capital as we speak. This is the game that the EU created, and the UK decided to play it. Mind to enlighten me where we freeride exactly? When compared to sweden, denmark or the netherlands? Aside from the fact that we basically have no vote/power and have to accept EU law else our "freeride" is gone. In france you got a ~35h workweek... talk about freeriding please.
The 35 work a week is not a freeride ? How is that a free ride ? It's the opposite ; a law aimed at protecting worker but that backfire due to competition and social dumping from other european countries.
Switzerland is freeriding on many front : it is part of the common market, but does not contribute like european countries, nor is it forced to retranscript all the laws coming from europe. It has entire control over its immigration policy. It plays on finance / banking to attract rich from neighboring countries and thus syphon the fiscal basis of european countries (much like luxemburg, altho to switzerland credit it changed a lot since the crisis), it has its own monetary policy / currency, and thus it can create currency / change the exchange rate at will, etc.
Norway is the best tho, first class clandestine passenger.
I think you have a distorted view on how people with low(er) income/education behave and how they are actually extremely disadvantages in understanding the nuances that drive alot of things in the world.
In somes cases, especially in social sciences, a degree is as much an access to knowledge than it is a way to certify the acquisition of a certain ideology. Most political problems nowadays are very simple ; it's mostly historic materialism and power play.
On July 06 2016 03:06 Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 02:23 Diabolique wrote:On July 06 2016 02:13 Shield wrote:On July 06 2016 01:59 Diabolique wrote:
So that people have an idea about the image, which the EU has in my country, the second most Eurosceptical country after the UK (so after BREXIT, we will be the most Eurosceptical country in the EU), our newspapers have just now a new headline:
The EU Parliament approved emission limits for lawnmowers and bulldozers
The image is that they are approving millions of nonsense regulations about the shape of bananas, emissions of lawnmovers, but are unable to deal with millions of economic migrants, flooding Europe.
EDIT: unable and unwilling Either the Czech Republic is underrepresented on news or you exaggerate. I thought Marine Le Pen's party is the most eurosceptic. Well, Le Pen is probably more eurosceptic than we are, but how many French people support her? 15%? So there might be about 20% Eurosceptic people in France. There are for sure more than 50% Eurosceptic people in the Czech Republic. In a recent sample "referendum", organized by the biggest Czech newspaper before the BREXIT voting, 53% (out of 100.000 participating people) voted for the Czech Republic leaving the EU. And that was on June 21. Even our proEuropean political parties have a specific plan, when to introduce Euro as our currency (which is required by the EU) - NEVER! Percentages may matter in elections, but 30% in France is still more people than even 100% in the Czech Republic, so I can understand why France is more known for euroscepticism. Of course, 30% may not be enough to get France out of EU, while 53% in the Czech Republic is enough in a referendum.
Euroscepticism in France is way higher than 30. Marine Le Pen has 30 to 35 % of the voters, but in polls people who want to stay in europe are a little above 50 % (from 52 to 60 % from one polls to another) and in the last referendum on europe (2005) french said no. A huge part of the far left is slowly evolving toward an anti european position (Mélenchon mostly) and some small right / center parties are against the european union.
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On July 06 2016 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 01:11 Velr wrote:On July 06 2016 00:24 WhiteDog wrote:At least the Brexit delivered. The whining is strong in europe, and I love it. So much integrity and "working for the people". That whole thing was a giant political powerplay and atm it looks like everyone lost for 0 gains. You take voters for idiots really ... Anybody with some education on the current europe would have predicted what happened. You're from switzerland you should know what the UK is trying to achieve : they aim to be a freerider, like your country, because the country that actually follow the rules in germania are getting crushed. The british government is already reducing taxation on capital as we speak. This is the game that the EU created, and the UK decided to play it. Mind to enlighten me where we freeride exactly? When compared to sweden, denmark or the netherlands? Aside from the fact that we basically have no vote/power and have to accept EU law else our "freeride" is gone. In france you got a ~35h workweek... talk about freeriding please. The 35 work a week is not a freeride ? How is that a free ride ? It's the opposite ; a law aimed at protecting worker but that backfire due to competition and social dumping from other european countries. Switzerland is freeriding on many front : it is part of the common market, but does not contribute like european countries, nor is it forced to retranscript all the laws coming from europe. It has entire control over its immigration policy. It plays on finance / banking to attract rich from neighboring countries and thus syphon the fiscal basis of european countries (much like luxemburg, altho to switzerland credit it changed a lot since the crisis), it has its own monetary policy / currency, and thus it can create currency / change the exchange rate at will, etc. Norway is the best tho, first class clandestine passenger.
Switzerland contributes payments just like member states (tho less money for less benefits), has to follow many rules from the EU for access to the free market, is part of the Dublin accord on EU immigration and had to loosen its immigration rules, I also do not believe Switzerland has free transfer of services (banking).
And Norway? They pay almost as much as a member state (85%) and has to follow pretty much all the rules from the EU without having a say in them.
I'm sorry but your info is just way wrong.
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On July 06 2016 04:52 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 01:11 Velr wrote:On July 06 2016 00:24 WhiteDog wrote:At least the Brexit delivered. The whining is strong in europe, and I love it. So much integrity and "working for the people". That whole thing was a giant political powerplay and atm it looks like everyone lost for 0 gains. You take voters for idiots really ... Anybody with some education on the current europe would have predicted what happened. You're from switzerland you should know what the UK is trying to achieve : they aim to be a freerider, like your country, because the country that actually follow the rules in germania are getting crushed. The british government is already reducing taxation on capital as we speak. This is the game that the EU created, and the UK decided to play it. Mind to enlighten me where we freeride exactly? When compared to sweden, denmark or the netherlands? Aside from the fact that we basically have no vote/power and have to accept EU law else our "freeride" is gone. In france you got a ~35h workweek... talk about freeriding please. The 35 work a week is not a freeride ? How is that a free ride ? It's the opposite ; a law aimed at protecting worker but that backfire due to competition and social dumping from other european countries. Switzerland is freeriding on many front : it is part of the common market, but does not contribute like european countries, nor is it forced to retranscript all the laws coming from europe. It has entire control over its immigration policy. It plays on finance / banking to attract rich from neighboring countries and thus syphon the fiscal basis of european countries (much like luxemburg, altho to switzerland credit it changed a lot since the crisis), it has its own monetary policy / currency, and thus it can create currency / change the exchange rate at will, etc. Norway is the best tho, first class clandestine passenger. Switzerland contributes payments just like member states (tho less money for less benefits), has to follow many rules from the EU for access to the free market, is part of the Dublin accord on EU immigration and had to loosen its immigration rules, I also do not believe Switzerland has free transfer of services (banking). And Norway? They pay almost as much as a member state (85%) and has to follow pretty much all the rules from the EU without having a say in them. I'm sorry but your info is just way wrong.
The Swiss have no obligation to transcript all laws, they pass a certain number of laws from europe to their legal system throught negociation and treaties, but the retranscription is not at all comparable to a memberstate. As for the contribution, do you have any numbers ? To my knowledge, it's not comparable to a memberstate at all (it's in millions, France contribute up to 7 billion net each years, and more than 20 billion in total). They do not contribute directly to the union, but to specific projects.
As for its immigration policy, they voted a restriction on european migrants by referendum like a few months ago, so yes they have complete control over their policy.
Norway is the same btw, they only add the "relevant laws" - except those dealing with agriculture and fisheries. It has a theorical power to refuse any laws from the eu, altho it does not use it. Imagine a UK in europe adding all the "relevant laws" except in finance.
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On July 06 2016 05:03 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 04:52 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 01:11 Velr wrote:On July 06 2016 00:24 WhiteDog wrote:At least the Brexit delivered. The whining is strong in europe, and I love it. So much integrity and "working for the people". That whole thing was a giant political powerplay and atm it looks like everyone lost for 0 gains. You take voters for idiots really ... Anybody with some education on the current europe would have predicted what happened. You're from switzerland you should know what the UK is trying to achieve : they aim to be a freerider, like your country, because the country that actually follow the rules in germania are getting crushed. The british government is already reducing taxation on capital as we speak. This is the game that the EU created, and the UK decided to play it. Mind to enlighten me where we freeride exactly? When compared to sweden, denmark or the netherlands? Aside from the fact that we basically have no vote/power and have to accept EU law else our "freeride" is gone. In france you got a ~35h workweek... talk about freeriding please. The 35 work a week is not a freeride ? How is that a free ride ? It's the opposite ; a law aimed at protecting worker but that backfire due to competition and social dumping from other european countries. Switzerland is freeriding on many front : it is part of the common market, but does not contribute like european countries, nor is it forced to retranscript all the laws coming from europe. It has entire control over its immigration policy. It plays on finance / banking to attract rich from neighboring countries and thus syphon the fiscal basis of european countries (much like luxemburg, altho to switzerland credit it changed a lot since the crisis), it has its own monetary policy / currency, and thus it can create currency / change the exchange rate at will, etc. Norway is the best tho, first class clandestine passenger. Switzerland contributes payments just like member states (tho less money for less benefits), has to follow many rules from the EU for access to the free market, is part of the Dublin accord on EU immigration and had to loosen its immigration rules, I also do not believe Switzerland has free transfer of services (banking). And Norway? They pay almost as much as a member state (85%) and has to follow pretty much all the rules from the EU without having a say in them. I'm sorry but your info is just way wrong. The Swiss have no obligation to transcript all laws, they pass a certain number of laws from europe to their legal system throught negociation and treaties, but the retranscription is not at all comparable to a memberstate. As for the contribution, do you have any numbers ? To my knowledge, it's not comparable to a memberstate at all (it's in millions, France contribute up to 7 billion net each years, and more than 20 billion in total). As for its immigration policy, they voted a restriction on european migrants by referendum like a few months ago, so yes they have complete control over their policy.
Switserland and Norway do not contribute to the EU budget directly but they do pay for EU projects (often inside the EU itself like regional development in eastern Europe).
Cant find any specific numbers atm other then that the UK would pay 55% less under the Swiss model then it is doing currently Source
also
A House of Commons committee concluded in a recent report that both Switzerland and Norway "are in practice obliged to adopt EU legislation over which they have had no effective say," although it is an exaggeration to say that all their rules are made by foreigners.
According to the report, the Norwegian Government commissioned an independent review of Norway's agreements with the EU which reported in 2012 that
"the most problematic aspect of Norway's form of association with the EU is the fact that Norway is in practice bound to adopt EU policies and rules [...] without being a member and without voting rights."
It also cites Professor René Schwok of the University of Geneva saying that in practice, the ability of the EEA's non-EU states to opt out of EU legislation is "politically unusable".
Source
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On July 06 2016 05:16 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 05:03 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 04:52 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 01:11 Velr wrote:On July 06 2016 00:24 WhiteDog wrote:At least the Brexit delivered. The whining is strong in europe, and I love it. So much integrity and "working for the people". That whole thing was a giant political powerplay and atm it looks like everyone lost for 0 gains. You take voters for idiots really ... Anybody with some education on the current europe would have predicted what happened. You're from switzerland you should know what the UK is trying to achieve : they aim to be a freerider, like your country, because the country that actually follow the rules in germania are getting crushed. The british government is already reducing taxation on capital as we speak. This is the game that the EU created, and the UK decided to play it. Mind to enlighten me where we freeride exactly? When compared to sweden, denmark or the netherlands? Aside from the fact that we basically have no vote/power and have to accept EU law else our "freeride" is gone. In france you got a ~35h workweek... talk about freeriding please. The 35 work a week is not a freeride ? How is that a free ride ? It's the opposite ; a law aimed at protecting worker but that backfire due to competition and social dumping from other european countries. Switzerland is freeriding on many front : it is part of the common market, but does not contribute like european countries, nor is it forced to retranscript all the laws coming from europe. It has entire control over its immigration policy. It plays on finance / banking to attract rich from neighboring countries and thus syphon the fiscal basis of european countries (much like luxemburg, altho to switzerland credit it changed a lot since the crisis), it has its own monetary policy / currency, and thus it can create currency / change the exchange rate at will, etc. Norway is the best tho, first class clandestine passenger. Switzerland contributes payments just like member states (tho less money for less benefits), has to follow many rules from the EU for access to the free market, is part of the Dublin accord on EU immigration and had to loosen its immigration rules, I also do not believe Switzerland has free transfer of services (banking). And Norway? They pay almost as much as a member state (85%) and has to follow pretty much all the rules from the EU without having a say in them. I'm sorry but your info is just way wrong. The Swiss have no obligation to transcript all laws, they pass a certain number of laws from europe to their legal system throught negociation and treaties, but the retranscription is not at all comparable to a memberstate. As for the contribution, do you have any numbers ? To my knowledge, it's not comparable to a memberstate at all (it's in millions, France contribute up to 7 billion net each years, and more than 20 billion in total). As for its immigration policy, they voted a restriction on european migrants by referendum like a few months ago, so yes they have complete control over their policy. Switserland and Norway do not contribute to the EU budget directly but they do pay for EU projects (often inside the EU itself like regional development in eastern Europe). Cant find any specific numbers atm other then that the UK would pay 55% less under the Swiss model then it is doing currently Sourcealso Show nested quote +A House of Commons committee concluded in a recent report that both Switzerland and Norway "are in practice obliged to adopt EU legislation over which they have had no effective say," although it is an exaggeration to say that all their rules are made by foreigners.
According to the report, the Norwegian Government commissioned an independent review of Norway's agreements with the EU which reported in 2012 that
"the most problematic aspect of Norway's form of association with the EU is the fact that Norway is in practice bound to adopt EU policies and rules [...] without being a member and without voting rights."
It also cites Professor René Schwok of the University of Geneva saying that in practice, the ability of the EEA's non-EU states to opt out of EU legislation is "politically unusable". Source
Yeah they pay way less.
http://eeas.europa.eu/norway/index_en.htm
European Economic Area (EEA)
Norway considered joining the European Community in 1972 and the EU in 1994., Norway joined the EEA in 1994. The EEA Agreement covers most aspects of its relations with the EU including:
• the EU single market – all relevant laws, except those dealing with agriculture and fisheries, apply to Norway
• EU Agencies and programmes – Norway participates in a number of them, albeit with no voting rights
• social & economic cohesion in the EU/EEA – Norway contributes financially
• regular political dialogue on foreign policy issues at ministerial and expert level
The Norwegian Government presented its White Paper on the EEA Agreement and Norway’s other agreements with the EU in October 2012, following the report Outside & inside – Norway's agreement with the EU of the Norwegian Review Committee, portraying Norway as “3/4” integrated into the EU.
It's all in the european website...
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On July 06 2016 05:23 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 05:16 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 05:03 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 04:52 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 01:11 Velr wrote:On July 06 2016 00:24 WhiteDog wrote:At least the Brexit delivered. The whining is strong in europe, and I love it. So much integrity and "working for the people". That whole thing was a giant political powerplay and atm it looks like everyone lost for 0 gains. You take voters for idiots really ... Anybody with some education on the current europe would have predicted what happened. You're from switzerland you should know what the UK is trying to achieve : they aim to be a freerider, like your country, because the country that actually follow the rules in germania are getting crushed. The british government is already reducing taxation on capital as we speak. This is the game that the EU created, and the UK decided to play it. Mind to enlighten me where we freeride exactly? When compared to sweden, denmark or the netherlands? Aside from the fact that we basically have no vote/power and have to accept EU law else our "freeride" is gone. In france you got a ~35h workweek... talk about freeriding please. The 35 work a week is not a freeride ? How is that a free ride ? It's the opposite ; a law aimed at protecting worker but that backfire due to competition and social dumping from other european countries. Switzerland is freeriding on many front : it is part of the common market, but does not contribute like european countries, nor is it forced to retranscript all the laws coming from europe. It has entire control over its immigration policy. It plays on finance / banking to attract rich from neighboring countries and thus syphon the fiscal basis of european countries (much like luxemburg, altho to switzerland credit it changed a lot since the crisis), it has its own monetary policy / currency, and thus it can create currency / change the exchange rate at will, etc. Norway is the best tho, first class clandestine passenger. Switzerland contributes payments just like member states (tho less money for less benefits), has to follow many rules from the EU for access to the free market, is part of the Dublin accord on EU immigration and had to loosen its immigration rules, I also do not believe Switzerland has free transfer of services (banking). And Norway? They pay almost as much as a member state (85%) and has to follow pretty much all the rules from the EU without having a say in them. I'm sorry but your info is just way wrong. The Swiss have no obligation to transcript all laws, they pass a certain number of laws from europe to their legal system throught negociation and treaties, but the retranscription is not at all comparable to a memberstate. As for the contribution, do you have any numbers ? To my knowledge, it's not comparable to a memberstate at all (it's in millions, France contribute up to 7 billion net each years, and more than 20 billion in total). As for its immigration policy, they voted a restriction on european migrants by referendum like a few months ago, so yes they have complete control over their policy. Switserland and Norway do not contribute to the EU budget directly but they do pay for EU projects (often inside the EU itself like regional development in eastern Europe). Cant find any specific numbers atm other then that the UK would pay 55% less under the Swiss model then it is doing currently Sourcealso A House of Commons committee concluded in a recent report that both Switzerland and Norway "are in practice obliged to adopt EU legislation over which they have had no effective say," although it is an exaggeration to say that all their rules are made by foreigners.
According to the report, the Norwegian Government commissioned an independent review of Norway's agreements with the EU which reported in 2012 that
"the most problematic aspect of Norway's form of association with the EU is the fact that Norway is in practice bound to adopt EU policies and rules [...] without being a member and without voting rights."
It also cites Professor René Schwok of the University of Geneva saying that in practice, the ability of the EEA's non-EU states to opt out of EU legislation is "politically unusable". Source Yeah they pay way less. http://eeas.europa.eu/norway/index_en.htmShow nested quote +European Economic Area (EEA)
Norway considered joining the European Community in 1972 and the EU in 1994., Norway joined the EEA in 1994. The EEA Agreement covers most aspects of its relations with the EU including:
• the EU single market – all relevant laws, except those dealing with agriculture and fisheries, apply to Norway
• EU Agencies and programmes – Norway participates in a number of them, albeit with no voting rights
• social & economic cohesion in the EU/EEA – Norway contributes financially
• regular political dialogue on foreign policy issues at ministerial and expert level
The Norwegian Government presented its White Paper on the EEA Agreement and Norway’s other agreements with the EU in October 2012, following the report Outside & inside – Norway's agreement with the EU of the Norwegian Review Committee, portraying Norway as “3/4” integrated into the EU. It's all in the european website...
Which is what I said? they pay less for less access. Most important Switserland does not have free access of services which is a requirement for the London financial district to exist,
Norways agreement does but they contribute more and have to follow more rules.
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On July 06 2016 05:38 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 05:23 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 05:16 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 05:03 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 04:52 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 01:11 Velr wrote:On July 06 2016 00:24 WhiteDog wrote:At least the Brexit delivered. The whining is strong in europe, and I love it. So much integrity and "working for the people". That whole thing was a giant political powerplay and atm it looks like everyone lost for 0 gains. You take voters for idiots really ... Anybody with some education on the current europe would have predicted what happened. You're from switzerland you should know what the UK is trying to achieve : they aim to be a freerider, like your country, because the country that actually follow the rules in germania are getting crushed. The british government is already reducing taxation on capital as we speak. This is the game that the EU created, and the UK decided to play it. Mind to enlighten me where we freeride exactly? When compared to sweden, denmark or the netherlands? Aside from the fact that we basically have no vote/power and have to accept EU law else our "freeride" is gone. In france you got a ~35h workweek... talk about freeriding please. The 35 work a week is not a freeride ? How is that a free ride ? It's the opposite ; a law aimed at protecting worker but that backfire due to competition and social dumping from other european countries. Switzerland is freeriding on many front : it is part of the common market, but does not contribute like european countries, nor is it forced to retranscript all the laws coming from europe. It has entire control over its immigration policy. It plays on finance / banking to attract rich from neighboring countries and thus syphon the fiscal basis of european countries (much like luxemburg, altho to switzerland credit it changed a lot since the crisis), it has its own monetary policy / currency, and thus it can create currency / change the exchange rate at will, etc. Norway is the best tho, first class clandestine passenger. Switzerland contributes payments just like member states (tho less money for less benefits), has to follow many rules from the EU for access to the free market, is part of the Dublin accord on EU immigration and had to loosen its immigration rules, I also do not believe Switzerland has free transfer of services (banking). And Norway? They pay almost as much as a member state (85%) and has to follow pretty much all the rules from the EU without having a say in them. I'm sorry but your info is just way wrong. The Swiss have no obligation to transcript all laws, they pass a certain number of laws from europe to their legal system throught negociation and treaties, but the retranscription is not at all comparable to a memberstate. As for the contribution, do you have any numbers ? To my knowledge, it's not comparable to a memberstate at all (it's in millions, France contribute up to 7 billion net each years, and more than 20 billion in total). As for its immigration policy, they voted a restriction on european migrants by referendum like a few months ago, so yes they have complete control over their policy. Switserland and Norway do not contribute to the EU budget directly but they do pay for EU projects (often inside the EU itself like regional development in eastern Europe). Cant find any specific numbers atm other then that the UK would pay 55% less under the Swiss model then it is doing currently Sourcealso A House of Commons committee concluded in a recent report that both Switzerland and Norway "are in practice obliged to adopt EU legislation over which they have had no effective say," although it is an exaggeration to say that all their rules are made by foreigners.
According to the report, the Norwegian Government commissioned an independent review of Norway's agreements with the EU which reported in 2012 that
"the most problematic aspect of Norway's form of association with the EU is the fact that Norway is in practice bound to adopt EU policies and rules [...] without being a member and without voting rights."
It also cites Professor René Schwok of the University of Geneva saying that in practice, the ability of the EEA's non-EU states to opt out of EU legislation is "politically unusable". Source Yeah they pay way less. http://eeas.europa.eu/norway/index_en.htmEuropean Economic Area (EEA)
Norway considered joining the European Community in 1972 and the EU in 1994., Norway joined the EEA in 1994. The EEA Agreement covers most aspects of its relations with the EU including:
• the EU single market – all relevant laws, except those dealing with agriculture and fisheries, apply to Norway
• EU Agencies and programmes – Norway participates in a number of them, albeit with no voting rights
• social & economic cohesion in the EU/EEA – Norway contributes financially
• regular political dialogue on foreign policy issues at ministerial and expert level
The Norwegian Government presented its White Paper on the EEA Agreement and Norway’s other agreements with the EU in October 2012, following the report Outside & inside – Norway's agreement with the EU of the Norwegian Review Committee, portraying Norway as “3/4” integrated into the EU. It's all in the european website... Which is what I said? they pay less for less access. Most important Switserland does not have free access of services which is a requirement for the London financial district to exist, Norways agreement does but they contribute more and have to follow more rules.
Since the beginning I wrote they were contributing less, not nothing everything that I stated in my comment was factual. That they don't have access to specific thing can be a counter balance to all the advantage they have. They don't follow the rule in regards to agriculture and fishing, so they don't retranscript all rules, far from it.
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On July 06 2016 05:43 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 05:38 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 05:23 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 05:16 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 05:03 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 04:52 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 01:11 Velr wrote:On July 06 2016 00:24 WhiteDog wrote:At least the Brexit delivered. The whining is strong in europe, and I love it. So much integrity and "working for the people". That whole thing was a giant political powerplay and atm it looks like everyone lost for 0 gains. You take voters for idiots really ... Anybody with some education on the current europe would have predicted what happened. You're from switzerland you should know what the UK is trying to achieve : they aim to be a freerider, like your country, because the country that actually follow the rules in germania are getting crushed. The british government is already reducing taxation on capital as we speak. This is the game that the EU created, and the UK decided to play it. Mind to enlighten me where we freeride exactly? When compared to sweden, denmark or the netherlands? Aside from the fact that we basically have no vote/power and have to accept EU law else our "freeride" is gone. In france you got a ~35h workweek... talk about freeriding please. The 35 work a week is not a freeride ? How is that a free ride ? It's the opposite ; a law aimed at protecting worker but that backfire due to competition and social dumping from other european countries. Switzerland is freeriding on many front : it is part of the common market, but does not contribute like european countries, nor is it forced to retranscript all the laws coming from europe. It has entire control over its immigration policy. It plays on finance / banking to attract rich from neighboring countries and thus syphon the fiscal basis of european countries (much like luxemburg, altho to switzerland credit it changed a lot since the crisis), it has its own monetary policy / currency, and thus it can create currency / change the exchange rate at will, etc. Norway is the best tho, first class clandestine passenger. Switzerland contributes payments just like member states (tho less money for less benefits), has to follow many rules from the EU for access to the free market, is part of the Dublin accord on EU immigration and had to loosen its immigration rules, I also do not believe Switzerland has free transfer of services (banking). And Norway? They pay almost as much as a member state (85%) and has to follow pretty much all the rules from the EU without having a say in them. I'm sorry but your info is just way wrong. The Swiss have no obligation to transcript all laws, they pass a certain number of laws from europe to their legal system throught negociation and treaties, but the retranscription is not at all comparable to a memberstate. As for the contribution, do you have any numbers ? To my knowledge, it's not comparable to a memberstate at all (it's in millions, France contribute up to 7 billion net each years, and more than 20 billion in total). As for its immigration policy, they voted a restriction on european migrants by referendum like a few months ago, so yes they have complete control over their policy. Switserland and Norway do not contribute to the EU budget directly but they do pay for EU projects (often inside the EU itself like regional development in eastern Europe). Cant find any specific numbers atm other then that the UK would pay 55% less under the Swiss model then it is doing currently Sourcealso A House of Commons committee concluded in a recent report that both Switzerland and Norway "are in practice obliged to adopt EU legislation over which they have had no effective say," although it is an exaggeration to say that all their rules are made by foreigners.
According to the report, the Norwegian Government commissioned an independent review of Norway's agreements with the EU which reported in 2012 that
"the most problematic aspect of Norway's form of association with the EU is the fact that Norway is in practice bound to adopt EU policies and rules [...] without being a member and without voting rights."
It also cites Professor René Schwok of the University of Geneva saying that in practice, the ability of the EEA's non-EU states to opt out of EU legislation is "politically unusable". Source Yeah they pay way less. http://eeas.europa.eu/norway/index_en.htmEuropean Economic Area (EEA)
Norway considered joining the European Community in 1972 and the EU in 1994., Norway joined the EEA in 1994. The EEA Agreement covers most aspects of its relations with the EU including:
• the EU single market – all relevant laws, except those dealing with agriculture and fisheries, apply to Norway
• EU Agencies and programmes – Norway participates in a number of them, albeit with no voting rights
• social & economic cohesion in the EU/EEA – Norway contributes financially
• regular political dialogue on foreign policy issues at ministerial and expert level
The Norwegian Government presented its White Paper on the EEA Agreement and Norway’s other agreements with the EU in October 2012, following the report Outside & inside – Norway's agreement with the EU of the Norwegian Review Committee, portraying Norway as “3/4” integrated into the EU. It's all in the european website... Which is what I said? they pay less for less access. Most important Switserland does not have free access of services which is a requirement for the London financial district to exist, Norways agreement does but they contribute more and have to follow more rules. Since the beginning I wrote they were contributing less, not nothing everything that I stated in my comment was factual. That they don't have access to specific thing can be a counter balance to all the advantage they have. They don't follow the rule in regards to agriculture and fishing, so they don't retranscript all rules, far from it.
it is part of the common market, but does not contribute like european countries,
That certainly says Does not Contribute but whatever, my argument has been made. if you disagree that is your choice.
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On July 06 2016 05:47 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 05:43 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 05:38 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 05:23 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 05:16 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 05:03 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 04:52 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 01:11 Velr wrote:On July 06 2016 00:24 WhiteDog wrote:
At least the Brexit delivered. The whining is strong in europe, and I love it.
[quote]
You take voters for idiots really ... Anybody with some education on the current europe would have predicted what happened. You're from switzerland you should know what the UK is trying to achieve : they aim to be a freerider, like your country, because the country that actually follow the rules in germania are getting crushed. The british government is already reducing taxation on capital as we speak.
This is the game that the EU created, and the UK decided to play it. Mind to enlighten me where we freeride exactly? When compared to sweden, denmark or the netherlands? Aside from the fact that we basically have no vote/power and have to accept EU law else our "freeride" is gone. In france you got a ~35h workweek... talk about freeriding please. The 35 work a week is not a freeride ? How is that a free ride ? It's the opposite ; a law aimed at protecting worker but that backfire due to competition and social dumping from other european countries. Switzerland is freeriding on many front : it is part of the common market, but does not contribute like european countries, nor is it forced to retranscript all the laws coming from europe. It has entire control over its immigration policy. It plays on finance / banking to attract rich from neighboring countries and thus syphon the fiscal basis of european countries (much like luxemburg, altho to switzerland credit it changed a lot since the crisis), it has its own monetary policy / currency, and thus it can create currency / change the exchange rate at will, etc. Norway is the best tho, first class clandestine passenger. Switzerland contributes payments just like member states (tho less money for less benefits), has to follow many rules from the EU for access to the free market, is part of the Dublin accord on EU immigration and had to loosen its immigration rules, I also do not believe Switzerland has free transfer of services (banking). And Norway? They pay almost as much as a member state (85%) and has to follow pretty much all the rules from the EU without having a say in them. I'm sorry but your info is just way wrong. The Swiss have no obligation to transcript all laws, they pass a certain number of laws from europe to their legal system throught negociation and treaties, but the retranscription is not at all comparable to a memberstate. As for the contribution, do you have any numbers ? To my knowledge, it's not comparable to a memberstate at all (it's in millions, France contribute up to 7 billion net each years, and more than 20 billion in total). As for its immigration policy, they voted a restriction on european migrants by referendum like a few months ago, so yes they have complete control over their policy. Switserland and Norway do not contribute to the EU budget directly but they do pay for EU projects (often inside the EU itself like regional development in eastern Europe). Cant find any specific numbers atm other then that the UK would pay 55% less under the Swiss model then it is doing currently Sourcealso A House of Commons committee concluded in a recent report that both Switzerland and Norway "are in practice obliged to adopt EU legislation over which they have had no effective say," although it is an exaggeration to say that all their rules are made by foreigners.
According to the report, the Norwegian Government commissioned an independent review of Norway's agreements with the EU which reported in 2012 that
"the most problematic aspect of Norway's form of association with the EU is the fact that Norway is in practice bound to adopt EU policies and rules [...] without being a member and without voting rights."
It also cites Professor René Schwok of the University of Geneva saying that in practice, the ability of the EEA's non-EU states to opt out of EU legislation is "politically unusable". Source Yeah they pay way less. http://eeas.europa.eu/norway/index_en.htmEuropean Economic Area (EEA)
Norway considered joining the European Community in 1972 and the EU in 1994., Norway joined the EEA in 1994. The EEA Agreement covers most aspects of its relations with the EU including:
• the EU single market – all relevant laws, except those dealing with agriculture and fisheries, apply to Norway
• EU Agencies and programmes – Norway participates in a number of them, albeit with no voting rights
• social & economic cohesion in the EU/EEA – Norway contributes financially
• regular political dialogue on foreign policy issues at ministerial and expert level
The Norwegian Government presented its White Paper on the EEA Agreement and Norway’s other agreements with the EU in October 2012, following the report Outside & inside – Norway's agreement with the EU of the Norwegian Review Committee, portraying Norway as “3/4” integrated into the EU. It's all in the european website... Which is what I said? they pay less for less access. Most important Switserland does not have free access of services which is a requirement for the London financial district to exist, Norways agreement does but they contribute more and have to follow more rules. Since the beginning I wrote they were contributing less, not nothing everything that I stated in my comment was factual. That they don't have access to specific thing can be a counter balance to all the advantage they have. They don't follow the rule in regards to agriculture and fishing, so they don't retranscript all rules, far from it. Show nested quote +it is part of the common market, but does not contribute like european countries, That certainly says Does not Contribute but whatever, my argument has been made. if you disagree that is your choice.
Yeah switzerland "does not contribute like european countries". It is what I wrote and it is entirely true...
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On July 06 2016 05:53 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 05:47 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 05:43 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 05:38 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 05:23 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 05:16 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 05:03 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 04:52 Gorsameth wrote:On July 06 2016 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:On July 06 2016 01:11 Velr wrote:
[quote]
Mind to enlighten me where we freeride exactly? When compared to sweden, denmark or the netherlands? Aside from the fact that we basically have no vote/power and have to accept EU law else our "freeride" is gone.
In france you got a ~35h workweek... talk about freeriding please. The 35 work a week is not a freeride ? How is that a free ride ? It's the opposite ; a law aimed at protecting worker but that backfire due to competition and social dumping from other european countries. Switzerland is freeriding on many front : it is part of the common market, but does not contribute like european countries, nor is it forced to retranscript all the laws coming from europe. It has entire control over its immigration policy. It plays on finance / banking to attract rich from neighboring countries and thus syphon the fiscal basis of european countries (much like luxemburg, altho to switzerland credit it changed a lot since the crisis), it has its own monetary policy / currency, and thus it can create currency / change the exchange rate at will, etc. Norway is the best tho, first class clandestine passenger. Switzerland contributes payments just like member states (tho less money for less benefits), has to follow many rules from the EU for access to the free market, is part of the Dublin accord on EU immigration and had to loosen its immigration rules, I also do not believe Switzerland has free transfer of services (banking). And Norway? They pay almost as much as a member state (85%) and has to follow pretty much all the rules from the EU without having a say in them. I'm sorry but your info is just way wrong. The Swiss have no obligation to transcript all laws, they pass a certain number of laws from europe to their legal system throught negociation and treaties, but the retranscription is not at all comparable to a memberstate. As for the contribution, do you have any numbers ? To my knowledge, it's not comparable to a memberstate at all (it's in millions, France contribute up to 7 billion net each years, and more than 20 billion in total). As for its immigration policy, they voted a restriction on european migrants by referendum like a few months ago, so yes they have complete control over their policy. Switserland and Norway do not contribute to the EU budget directly but they do pay for EU projects (often inside the EU itself like regional development in eastern Europe). Cant find any specific numbers atm other then that the UK would pay 55% less under the Swiss model then it is doing currently Sourcealso A House of Commons committee concluded in a recent report that both Switzerland and Norway "are in practice obliged to adopt EU legislation over which they have had no effective say," although it is an exaggeration to say that all their rules are made by foreigners.
According to the report, the Norwegian Government commissioned an independent review of Norway's agreements with the EU which reported in 2012 that
"the most problematic aspect of Norway's form of association with the EU is the fact that Norway is in practice bound to adopt EU policies and rules [...] without being a member and without voting rights."
It also cites Professor René Schwok of the University of Geneva saying that in practice, the ability of the EEA's non-EU states to opt out of EU legislation is "politically unusable". Source Yeah they pay way less. http://eeas.europa.eu/norway/index_en.htmEuropean Economic Area (EEA)
Norway considered joining the European Community in 1972 and the EU in 1994., Norway joined the EEA in 1994. The EEA Agreement covers most aspects of its relations with the EU including:
• the EU single market – all relevant laws, except those dealing with agriculture and fisheries, apply to Norway
• EU Agencies and programmes – Norway participates in a number of them, albeit with no voting rights
• social & economic cohesion in the EU/EEA – Norway contributes financially
• regular political dialogue on foreign policy issues at ministerial and expert level
The Norwegian Government presented its White Paper on the EEA Agreement and Norway’s other agreements with the EU in October 2012, following the report Outside & inside – Norway's agreement with the EU of the Norwegian Review Committee, portraying Norway as “3/4” integrated into the EU. It's all in the european website... Which is what I said? they pay less for less access. Most important Switserland does not have free access of services which is a requirement for the London financial district to exist, Norways agreement does but they contribute more and have to follow more rules. Since the beginning I wrote they were contributing less, not nothing everything that I stated in my comment was factual. That they don't have access to specific thing can be a counter balance to all the advantage they have. They don't follow the rule in regards to agriculture and fishing, so they don't retranscript all rules, far from it. it is part of the common market, but does not contribute like european countries, That certainly says Does not Contribute but whatever, my argument has been made. if you disagree that is your choice. Yeah switzerland "does not contribute like european countries". It is what I wrote and it is entirely true...
fine, so instead of being wrong you were being incredibly disingenuous by not mentioning they do in fact pay money to the EU.
I can work with that
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So, now that some of the negative sides of Brexit are clear, do you think their politicians will forget about Brexit? You say you have to respect what the nation says, but some people didn't know what they really voted for. Also, the government in Greece completely ignored their last referendum, and they are the guys who discovered democracy as far as I know.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On July 06 2016 07:04 Shield wrote:
So, now that some of the negative sides of Brexit are clear, do you think their politicians will forget about Brexit? You say you have to respect what the nation says, but some people didn't know what they really voted for. Also, the government in Greece completely ignored their last referendum, and they are the guys who discovered democracy as far as I know.
I'm pretty sure all the Leave voters knew exactly what they were voting for and it's the Remain voters who have no idea what they REALLY voted for. They voted for Remain then the next day they flooded the Google with such trivial questions like "What is the EU?" If they knew what the EU was they would have voted Leave.
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On July 06 2016 07:12 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 07:04 Shield wrote:
So, now that some of the negative sides of Brexit are clear, do you think their politicians will forget about Brexit? You say you have to respect what the nation says, but some people didn't know what they really voted for. Also, the government in Greece completely ignored their last referendum, and they are the guys who discovered democracy as far as I know. I'm pretty sure all the Leave voters knew exactly what they were voting for and it's the Remain voters who have no idea what they REALLY voted for. They voted for Remain then the next day they flooded the Google with such trivial questions like "What is the EU?" If they knew what the EU was they would have voted Leave.
I'm sorry I couldnt read that with a strait face. Good joke.
As for the question. I think it is impossible to say at this point. More will become clear when the new Prime Minister is chosen and we know who will actually lead the country going forward.
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EPT
