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LGBT Rights and Gender Equality Thread - Page 144

Forum Index > General Forum
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ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
August 08 2013 14:54 GMT
#2861
On August 08 2013 23:53 Killscreen wrote:
Did you redefine "context" also, or am I just not getting you?

context means the things that came before and after something that affect the way it is viewed
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 08 2013 14:55 GMT
#2862
On August 08 2013 23:54 Killscreen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 23:53 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:50 Killscreen wrote:
If its not derogatory, why shouldnt I call a black person negro then?

Because they will fucking punch you? Are you kidding? You don't break that out ever, its a word that has been twisted over time.

So its a derogatory term then.

Yes, when used to discribe a black person in the modern context. So using "man" to describe a transgender woman is exactly the same. Unless you don't respect the transgender woman, which then you are a jerk.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
shinosai
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1577 Posts
August 08 2013 14:56 GMT
#2863
On August 08 2013 23:45 Killscreen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 23:43 ComaDose wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:40 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:38 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:34 marvellosity wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:34 ComaDose wrote:
that was easyer than usual


But you didn't achieve anything, this isn't a points scoring exercise.

Getting people to go away and stop saying jerky things is its own reward.


So guess what, you convinced me to stay! :D
Everything I said is factually correct. You're really arguing with the oxford dictionary?

alright lets move on to the next thing you said that was wrong
the girl knew I would be pissed ( or she would tell me )

there are many reasons someone wouldn't disclose other than knowing you would be pissed

Sure..
It's still deceptive and wrong though, regardless of her reason not to disclose it.


Hey, stop ignoring me. You're deceptive, too. Why aren't you disclosing?
Be versatile, know when to retreat, and carry a big gun.
Crushinator
Profile Joined August 2011
Netherlands2138 Posts
August 08 2013 14:57 GMT
#2864
On August 08 2013 23:54 Killscreen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 23:53 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:50 Killscreen wrote:
If its not derogatory, why shouldnt I call a black person negro then?

Because they will fucking punch you? Are you kidding? You don't break that out ever, its a word that has been twisted over time.

So its a derogatory term then.


Yep, and so is calling a transwoman a man. Due to context. What a fascinating discussion, this.
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
August 08 2013 14:58 GMT
#2865
On August 08 2013 23:57 Crushinator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 23:54 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:53 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:50 Killscreen wrote:
If its not derogatory, why shouldnt I call a black person negro then?

Because they will fucking punch you? Are you kidding? You don't break that out ever, its a word that has been twisted over time.

So its a derogatory term then.


Yep, and so is calling a transwoman a man. Due to context. What a fascinating discussion, this.

this is not fascinating we are just spelling stuff out for him cause he wont educate himself or leave
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
adwodon
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom592 Posts
August 08 2013 15:03 GMT
#2866
You guys are funny.

Considering the OED has multiple definitions of 'man' which take into account context:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/man

And the WHO doesn't define 'man', it defines male, female as sex and masculine and feminine as gender.

http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/

As far as the rest of this amusing cluster fuck goes, carry on. I just wanted to actually add in some links to the crap you're all talking about.
Killscreen
Profile Joined February 2012
188 Posts
August 08 2013 15:06 GMT
#2867
On August 08 2013 23:55 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 23:54 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:53 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:50 Killscreen wrote:
If its not derogatory, why shouldnt I call a black person negro then?

Because they will fucking punch you? Are you kidding? You don't break that out ever, its a word that has been twisted over time.

So its a derogatory term then.

Yes, when used to discribe a black person in the modern context. So using "man" to describe a transgender woman is exactly the same. Unless you don't respect the transgender woman, which then you are a jerk.

No, it isnt the same thing. A word like "faggot" or maybe "tranny" or something along those lines would be the same.
I get your point though, but please try to understand mine; you cannot just alter words' meanings to be what you would like them to be, and it's not fair to scold me for using the English language correctly.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42654 Posts
August 08 2013 15:06 GMT
#2868
On August 08 2013 19:27 Waise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 19:23 marvellosity wrote:
On August 08 2013 19:21 Waise wrote:
On August 08 2013 19:12 adwodon wrote:
The reason is fairly straight forward, it is a reasonable assumption that most people might not comfortable with it. You might not like this assumption or feel it is wrong in some way but this is how society generally feels about these things.
i'm asking you to explain why there is a responsibility to disclose something just because "people might not be comfortable." i can claim to be uncomfortable with almost anything. everyone is different and everyone is comfortable and uncomfortable with different things based on their unique personality. since i can't predict the full extent of anyone's personality, how can i be expected to cater to all of their requisites for who is acceptable to sleep with? perhaps most importantly of all, why must the consideration be first for the person uncomfortable with sleeping with a transexual and not with the fact that a transexual may not be comfortable with disclosing it?



Did you read what Kwark had to say about numbers?

You can claim to be uncomfortable with anything, but is your discomfort shared by many, many other people?

it doesn't matter because the point is that discomfort does not entitle you to information. the right to privacy about your history supersedes the "right" to information about a person you put your penis into. moreover, "many people agree" is an absolutely godawful argument in favor of anything concerning morality

If you don't want to disclose the option is always there to simply not have sex with strangers. The argument that "if I was honest I wouldn't get laid so often so that's obviously not an option" simply doesn't work.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
August 08 2013 15:08 GMT
#2869
On August 09 2013 00:06 Killscreen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 23:55 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:54 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:53 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:50 Killscreen wrote:
If its not derogatory, why shouldnt I call a black person negro then?

Because they will fucking punch you? Are you kidding? You don't break that out ever, its a word that has been twisted over time.

So its a derogatory term then.

Yes, when used to discribe a black person in the modern context. So using "man" to describe a transgender woman is exactly the same. Unless you don't respect the transgender woman, which then you are a jerk.

No, it isnt the same thing. A word like "faggot" or maybe "tranny" or something along those lines would be the same.
I get your point though, but please try to understand mine; you cannot just alter words' meanings to be what you would like them to be, and it's not fair to scold me for using the English language correctly.

no those are slurs while the words we are talking about are not.
and there are many things i can do using the English language correctly that will get me scolded
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
Killscreen
Profile Joined February 2012
188 Posts
August 08 2013 15:08 GMT
#2870
On August 08 2013 23:56 shinosai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 23:45 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:43 ComaDose wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:40 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:38 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:34 marvellosity wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:34 ComaDose wrote:
that was easyer than usual


But you didn't achieve anything, this isn't a points scoring exercise.

Getting people to go away and stop saying jerky things is its own reward.


So guess what, you convinced me to stay! :D
Everything I said is factually correct. You're really arguing with the oxford dictionary?

alright lets move on to the next thing you said that was wrong
the girl knew I would be pissed ( or she would tell me )

there are many reasons someone wouldn't disclose other than knowing you would be pissed

Sure..
It's still deceptive and wrong though, regardless of her reason not to disclose it.


Hey, stop ignoring me. You're deceptive, too. Why aren't you disclosing?

I bet that sounded like a rational argument in your head.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 08 2013 15:11 GMT
#2871
On August 09 2013 00:06 Killscreen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 23:55 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:54 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:53 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:50 Killscreen wrote:
If its not derogatory, why shouldnt I call a black person negro then?

Because they will fucking punch you? Are you kidding? You don't break that out ever, its a word that has been twisted over time.

So its a derogatory term then.

Yes, when used to discribe a black person in the modern context. So using "man" to describe a transgender woman is exactly the same. Unless you don't respect the transgender woman, which then you are a jerk.

No, it isnt the same thing. A word like "faggot" or maybe "tranny" or something along those lines would be the same.
I get your point though, but please try to understand mine; you cannot just alter words' meanings to be what you would like them to be, and it's not fair to scold me for using the English language correctly.

Once again, the word "cool" and "bad" disagree with you. Also the word "wicked" and "sick". Meaning change over time.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
shinosai
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1577 Posts
August 08 2013 15:12 GMT
#2872
On August 09 2013 00:08 Killscreen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 23:56 shinosai wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:45 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:43 ComaDose wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:40 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:38 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:34 marvellosity wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:34 ComaDose wrote:
that was easyer than usual


But you didn't achieve anything, this isn't a points scoring exercise.

Getting people to go away and stop saying jerky things is its own reward.


So guess what, you convinced me to stay! :D
Everything I said is factually correct. You're really arguing with the oxford dictionary?

alright lets move on to the next thing you said that was wrong
the girl knew I would be pissed ( or she would tell me )

there are many reasons someone wouldn't disclose other than knowing you would be pissed

Sure..
It's still deceptive and wrong though, regardless of her reason not to disclose it.


Hey, stop ignoring me. You're deceptive, too. Why aren't you disclosing?

I bet that sounded like a rational argument in your head.


So you don't have a response, then? Don't I have a right to know? Transphobic people are a legitimate danger to my safety. You don't get to have a ridiculous hangup about trans people and then call me irrational for not wanting to sleep with transphobes.
Be versatile, know when to retreat, and carry a big gun.
Killscreen
Profile Joined February 2012
188 Posts
August 08 2013 15:14 GMT
#2873
On August 09 2013 00:11 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 00:06 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:55 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:54 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:53 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:50 Killscreen wrote:
If its not derogatory, why shouldnt I call a black person negro then?

Because they will fucking punch you? Are you kidding? You don't break that out ever, its a word that has been twisted over time.

So its a derogatory term then.

Yes, when used to discribe a black person in the modern context. So using "man" to describe a transgender woman is exactly the same. Unless you don't respect the transgender woman, which then you are a jerk.

No, it isnt the same thing. A word like "faggot" or maybe "tranny" or something along those lines would be the same.
I get your point though, but please try to understand mine; you cannot just alter words' meanings to be what you would like them to be, and it's not fair to scold me for using the English language correctly.

Once again, the word "cool" and "bad" disagree with you. Also the word "wicked" and "sick". Meaning change over time.

Those are slang words, and lets stick with what the words mean right now shall we? This is where a dictionary is useful.
Killscreen
Profile Joined February 2012
188 Posts
August 08 2013 15:15 GMT
#2874
On August 09 2013 00:08 ComaDose wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 00:06 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:55 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:54 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:53 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:50 Killscreen wrote:
If its not derogatory, why shouldnt I call a black person negro then?

Because they will fucking punch you? Are you kidding? You don't break that out ever, its a word that has been twisted over time.

So its a derogatory term then.

Yes, when used to discribe a black person in the modern context. So using "man" to describe a transgender woman is exactly the same. Unless you don't respect the transgender woman, which then you are a jerk.

No, it isnt the same thing. A word like "faggot" or maybe "tranny" or something along those lines would be the same.
I get your point though, but please try to understand mine; you cannot just alter words' meanings to be what you would like them to be, and it's not fair to scold me for using the English language correctly.

no those are slurs while the words we are talking about are not.
and there are many things i can do using the English language correctly that will get me scolded

How is negro not a slur?
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42654 Posts
August 08 2013 15:15 GMT
#2875
On August 08 2013 23:56 shinosai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 23:45 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:43 ComaDose wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:40 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:38 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:34 marvellosity wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:34 ComaDose wrote:
that was easyer than usual


But you didn't achieve anything, this isn't a points scoring exercise.

Getting people to go away and stop saying jerky things is its own reward.


So guess what, you convinced me to stay! :D
Everything I said is factually correct. You're really arguing with the oxford dictionary?

alright lets move on to the next thing you said that was wrong
the girl knew I would be pissed ( or she would tell me )

there are many reasons someone wouldn't disclose other than knowing you would be pissed

Sure..
It's still deceptive and wrong though, regardless of her reason not to disclose it.


Hey, stop ignoring me. You're deceptive, too. Why aren't you disclosing?

If it was reasonable to assume that transphobic status was a dealbreaker for the other party and that being transphobic was so unlikely that they had no reason to ask if you were transphobic you should absolutely disclose. Come up with a hypothetical in which that is the case and I'll back you up on a moral obligation to disclose transphobic status. I don't think it's based in reality though. I think transphobic status is something that the other person can reasonably anticipate, unlike trans status which is really, really rare.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Killscreen
Profile Joined February 2012
188 Posts
August 08 2013 15:17 GMT
#2876
On August 09 2013 00:12 shinosai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 00:08 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:56 shinosai wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:45 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:43 ComaDose wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:40 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:38 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:34 marvellosity wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:34 ComaDose wrote:
that was easyer than usual


But you didn't achieve anything, this isn't a points scoring exercise.

Getting people to go away and stop saying jerky things is its own reward.


So guess what, you convinced me to stay! :D
Everything I said is factually correct. You're really arguing with the oxford dictionary?

alright lets move on to the next thing you said that was wrong
the girl knew I would be pissed ( or she would tell me )

there are many reasons someone wouldn't disclose other than knowing you would be pissed

Sure..
It's still deceptive and wrong though, regardless of her reason not to disclose it.


Hey, stop ignoring me. You're deceptive, too. Why aren't you disclosing?

I bet that sounded like a rational argument in your head.


So you don't have a response, then? Don't I have a right to know? Transphobic people are a legitimate danger to my safety. You don't get to have a ridiculous hangup about trans people and then call me irrational for not wanting to sleep with transphobes.

I dont recall saying you are irrational for not wanting to sleep with transphobes. I think what you are saying is that you would rather sleep with a transphobe than be beaten up by him, but I'm not sure.
shinosai
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1577 Posts
August 08 2013 15:18 GMT
#2877
On August 09 2013 00:15 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 23:56 shinosai wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:45 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:43 ComaDose wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:40 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:38 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:34 marvellosity wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:34 ComaDose wrote:
that was easyer than usual


But you didn't achieve anything, this isn't a points scoring exercise.

Getting people to go away and stop saying jerky things is its own reward.


So guess what, you convinced me to stay! :D
Everything I said is factually correct. You're really arguing with the oxford dictionary?

alright lets move on to the next thing you said that was wrong
the girl knew I would be pissed ( or she would tell me )

there are many reasons someone wouldn't disclose other than knowing you would be pissed

Sure..
It's still deceptive and wrong though, regardless of her reason not to disclose it.


Hey, stop ignoring me. You're deceptive, too. Why aren't you disclosing?

If it was reasonable to assume that transphobic status was a dealbreaker for the other party and that being transphobic was so unlikely that they had no reason to ask if you were transphobic you should absolutely disclose. Come up with a hypothetical in which that is the case and I'll back you up on a moral obligation to disclose transphobic status. I don't think it's based in reality though. I think transphobic status is something that the other person can reasonably anticipate, unlike trans status which is really, really rare.


Look, neither of us actually have any evidence on the percentage of people where people are transphobic is a deal breaker, or being trans is a deal breaker. However, I do have a hypothetical for you.

Suppose that from now on, with every woman you dated, you at some point went into an anecdote about how your brother is dating a completely passable post-op trans woman. Let's presume you interject this story tactfully, so that it does not seem absurdly out of place. Make sure to let her know that you would never date "him" because you think that "he" is a man, no matter what "he" does to "his" body.

Do you think that a reasonable amount of women would be turned off by this? If so, then it is reasonable that transphobia is a dealbreaker and you should disclose.
Be versatile, know when to retreat, and carry a big gun.
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
August 08 2013 15:20 GMT
#2878
On August 09 2013 00:17 Killscreen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 00:12 shinosai wrote:
On August 09 2013 00:08 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:56 shinosai wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:45 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:43 ComaDose wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:40 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:38 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:34 marvellosity wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:34 ComaDose wrote:
that was easyer than usual


But you didn't achieve anything, this isn't a points scoring exercise.

Getting people to go away and stop saying jerky things is its own reward.


So guess what, you convinced me to stay! :D
Everything I said is factually correct. You're really arguing with the oxford dictionary?

alright lets move on to the next thing you said that was wrong
the girl knew I would be pissed ( or she would tell me )

there are many reasons someone wouldn't disclose other than knowing you would be pissed

Sure..
It's still deceptive and wrong though, regardless of her reason not to disclose it.


Hey, stop ignoring me. You're deceptive, too. Why aren't you disclosing?

I bet that sounded like a rational argument in your head.


So you don't have a response, then? Don't I have a right to know? Transphobic people are a legitimate danger to my safety. You don't get to have a ridiculous hangup about trans people and then call me irrational for not wanting to sleep with transphobes.

I dont recall saying you are irrational for not wanting to sleep with transphobes. I think what you are saying is that you would rather sleep with a transphobe than be beaten up by him, but I'm not sure.

she disagrees with your point that "most guys" would be mad if they found out they slept with a trans person.
also negro is not a slur because context and history.
remember when you recommended using dictionaries?
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 08 2013 15:22 GMT
#2879
On August 09 2013 00:14 Killscreen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 00:11 Plansix wrote:
On August 09 2013 00:06 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:55 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:54 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:53 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:50 Killscreen wrote:
If its not derogatory, why shouldnt I call a black person negro then?

Because they will fucking punch you? Are you kidding? You don't break that out ever, its a word that has been twisted over time.

So its a derogatory term then.

Yes, when used to discribe a black person in the modern context. So using "man" to describe a transgender woman is exactly the same. Unless you don't respect the transgender woman, which then you are a jerk.

No, it isnt the same thing. A word like "faggot" or maybe "tranny" or something along those lines would be the same.
I get your point though, but please try to understand mine; you cannot just alter words' meanings to be what you would like them to be, and it's not fair to scold me for using the English language correctly.

Once again, the word "cool" and "bad" disagree with you. Also the word "wicked" and "sick". Meaning change over time.

Those are slang words, and lets stick with what the words mean right now shall we? This is where a dictionary is useful.

Right, I have work to do and explaining the evolution of language is something you need to learn on your own. Words change over time to mean different things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology

It is fact. Citing the oxford english dictionary does nothing, because the word "Etymology" is also in there. If you look it up, it will inform you word can change over time.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Killscreen
Profile Joined February 2012
188 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-08 15:29:44
August 08 2013 15:26 GMT
#2880
On August 09 2013 00:22 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 00:14 Killscreen wrote:
On August 09 2013 00:11 Plansix wrote:
On August 09 2013 00:06 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:55 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:54 Killscreen wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:53 Plansix wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:50 Killscreen wrote:
If its not derogatory, why shouldnt I call a black person negro then?

Because they will fucking punch you? Are you kidding? You don't break that out ever, its a word that has been twisted over time.

So its a derogatory term then.

Yes, when used to discribe a black person in the modern context. So using "man" to describe a transgender woman is exactly the same. Unless you don't respect the transgender woman, which then you are a jerk.

No, it isnt the same thing. A word like "faggot" or maybe "tranny" or something along those lines would be the same.
I get your point though, but please try to understand mine; you cannot just alter words' meanings to be what you would like them to be, and it's not fair to scold me for using the English language correctly.

Once again, the word "cool" and "bad" disagree with you. Also the word "wicked" and "sick". Meaning change over time.

Those are slang words, and lets stick with what the words mean right now shall we? This is where a dictionary is useful.

Right, I have work to do and explaining the evolution of language is something you need to learn on your own. Words change over time to mean different things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology

It is fact. Citing the oxford english dictionary does nothing, because the word "Etymology" is also in there. If you look it up, it will inform you word can change over time.

So since words change, we can just redefine words as we see fit. I hereby redefine "idiot" to mean "nice person".
You're an idiot.

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