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Why China Censors the Internet

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Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-01 00:38:06
March 01 2013 00:33 GMT
#1
Hint: it's only halfway because the government gives a shit about what people say online.

In reality, censorship in China is a big fucking business--and it's a frightening peek into the future of Western countries if laws like CISPA are taken to their logical conclusion.

http://english.caixin.com/2013-02-19/100492242_all.html

+ Show Spoiler [obligatory youtube vid] +

TLDR: The reason China censors and firewalls the internet is because there's a giant industry that makes money off 'harmonizing' Internet content, and they've got an informal 'lobby' set up to make the right 'donations' to the central government in the same way that retarded special interest lobbies in America like the NRA or health insurers cause the US government to create stupid policies.

Flames of a public relations disaster were licking at the heels of a private equity firm when China's most notorious Internet-scrubbing company rode to the rescue.
Saving the Shenzhen-based firm's image was not cheap, and it took more than two months to douse the flames of Internet news reports and rumors claiming executives had used a Ponzi scheme to bilk investors.


.... The cost for that service? 1M yuan, or about $140,000. I imagine Bernie Madoff must be feeling gypped right now, after spending 14 million on a single contract with a Washington DC PR company.

Moreover, Gu knew how to make direct contact with website administrators and their colleagues. This skill – coupled with his ability to grease palms and cultivate good relations with website staffers – proved to be the key to his business success.
Gu started by charging 800 to 1,000 yuan per deleted post while still employed at Baidu. He would start working his magic after finding an image-conscious customer who wanted something scrubbed from the Internet. He would then file complaints with Baidu about relevant postings, and watch the Web until they disappeared.
A former Yage colleague said his boss managed to pocket tens of thousands of yuan during this moonlighting phase, before launching his company.


... aka Hot_Bid should move to China, since Fortune 500 companies will pay for him to 'moderate' forums

Yage's clients ranged from small, private companies to heavyweights such as China Mobile and FAW-Volkswagen, the joint venture set up by German carmaker Volkswagen and Chinese counterpart First Automobile Works. Foreign concerns, including Pizza Hut and the Japanese restaurant chain Yoshinoya, also hired Yage.
But Yage's best clients were local government officials. They were generally eager to pay for his help with building a positive image and a clean record on the Internet.
A former Yage staff member said about 60 percent of the company's profits came from business with officials from second- and third-tier cities. These clients included many police chiefs.
As part of Gu's strategy, dozens of Yage staffers spent the workday surfing the Internet in search of negative news, comments and postings about government officials. Any official whose reputation seemed to be threatened would be contacted and offered Yage's services as soon as negative information surfaced online.
High season for Yage's business with local government clients was usually just before the National People's Congress and China People's Political Consultative Conference held every March in Beijing. It's around conference time that officials typically come under attack from whistleblowers. It's also when these officials are often willing to pay a premium to see negative publicity vanish.
A former Yage staffer recalled that Gu once announced at an internal meeting that a deal with a nervous government official was worth no less than 500,000 yuan (~$80,000).
Yage's cream of the crop employees built good client relations with government officials. These included a dozen hand-picked by Gu and carefully trained so they could successfully pitch the company's services to even high-ranking officials.
Gu also found ways to profit from value-added services. For example, after scrubbing negative content for a client, Yage sales staffers often recommended Internet surveillance software that could be used to self-monitor web forums. Yage could buy a single software license for 100,000 yuan and sell it to a gullible client for 400,000 yuan.


.... Who does the deleting? ....

At the other end of the food chain were website operators and administrators – and in some cases government-linked Internet censors – with the power to delete information after it was posted on the Internet.
Gu and others at Yage cultivated personal relationships with front-line website operators, mainly by wining and dining but sometimes by offering a bribe, in exchange for having certain posts deleted.
In 2009, web forum operators and other public relations companies started adopting a similar business model by arranging to delete online information for fees.


....

But nothing worked better than building good, personal relations with the website editors and operators who are allowed to have their fingers on the delete button. These relations were further stoked via social networks whose members worked for Yage and similar companies.
Major Internet companies started taking note of the scrubbing activity, prompting some to tighten rules. Major news portals such as Sina, Tencent and Netease, as well as niche sites such as Hexun, started to more closely scrutinize the editing process that follows web post publishing. Any unauthorized deletion of website information at these companies could cost a person his or her job.
News website operators maintain regular contact with Beijing city government officials at the Internet Management Office. All parties hold a regular meeting every Friday, and through the course of each week officials use phone calls or text messages to convey specific orders, including any orders to filter out key words from search functions.
Officials close to the Haidian police probe and raid told Caixin that some government officials use these official order channels for personal benefits. Indeed, last year police arrested a staff from Beijing's Internet Management Office for alleged bribery.


... Alleged my ass, I know these guys and how much money they make. It's a lot.

Among those rounded up at Baidu was a man surnamed Xu who authorities said deleted 76 posts on the night of May 29, charging 300 yuan per scrub. He kept 70 percent of that money and handed over 30 percent to a mediator.


300 yuan is about 45 bucks.... so 76x45x70% is about 2400$ for a nights' worth of moderating. I bet TL mods wish they made that sort of money.

And... this was their downfall:

These projects involved public relations companies that would produce or re-post pieces that smeared companies or at least threatened their reputations, have them posted on Qianlong, and later have the pieces removed after the targeted company paid a fee.
....
Yage at first posted advertorials disguised as news. Later, the Qianlong business site started a "Company Black List" section with hundreds of negative reports about various firms beside an advertisement offering Yage's Internet firefighting services.
Several companies like Yage also won access to the website and started their own means of extortion. A manager at an education company told Caixin his company once paid Yage to delete a negative news piece appearing on Qianlong, but then had to pay another public relations company after the same news appeared elsewhere on the website.


Seems like these two companies (Yage and Qianlong) stepped on the wrong toes in their Internet blackmail/censoring tag-team, and now some big boys from Party Center wanna have a friendly chat with the guys that run these bucket shops.

And before you think this means the Chinese government is really going to crack down on censorship for profit:

So far, Hu has been the only target of the police probe into Qianlong. Coincidentally, he has a relative who works for the Beijing government's Internet office.


The only reason China can do all this is because the Great Firewall of China turns Chinese internet users into a captive market as far as internet services are concerned.

But: I see this trend eventually emerging in Western countries too. It's not too hard to imagine ISPs becoming responsible for censoring potentially libelous content going through their pipes in the same way they currently restrict content based on copyright protection. Once that Rubicon is crossed, then what's to say they don't start farming out for-profit "image management" services to corporates... especially given that in many markets, they're essentially a monopoly (or duopoly) service.
Что?
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-01 01:00:49
March 01 2013 01:00 GMT
#2
this sounds just too sensationalist. Where is a government there is corruption, but that doesn't mean it is the primary reason for everything the government does. China is no exception. I still believe political reasons are way above economical in those matters.
MVega
Profile Joined November 2010
763 Posts
March 01 2013 01:05 GMT
#3
Being completely honest, I'd be fine with a little internet censorship in the west.

On March 01 2013 10:00 Cheerio wrote:
this sounds just too sensationalist. Where is a government there is corruption, but that doesn't mean it is the primary reason for everything the government does. China is no exception. I still believe political reasons are way above economical in those matters.


More like where there are people there is corruption. I agree with you though.

bumkin: How can you play like 50 games per day... I 4gate 2 times then it's nap time
Seldentar
Profile Joined May 2011
United States888 Posts
March 01 2013 01:22 GMT
#4
On March 01 2013 10:05 MVega wrote:
Being completely honest, I'd be fine with a little internet censorship in the west.

Show nested quote +
On March 01 2013 10:00 Cheerio wrote:
this sounds just too sensationalist. Where is a government there is corruption, but that doesn't mean it is the primary reason for everything the government does. China is no exception. I still believe political reasons are way above economical in those matters.


More like where there are people there is corruption. I agree with you though.



Where there is power there is corruption.

"The men who create power make an indispensable contribution to the Nation’s greatness, but the men who question power make a contribution just as indispensable, especially when that questioning is disinterested, for they determine whether we use power or power uses us."
Hikari
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
1914 Posts
March 01 2013 01:23 GMT
#5
The internet in China is quite a scary place: beside censorship the government also keeps a close eye on what is being transmitted. Post a picture of the Chinese flag covered by manure on the internet? You are going to be hunted down and arrested (and this happened in Hong Kong, possibly the most democratic region in China).

Last year the government tighten its firewall again during the Arab Spring movement: the government is scared that the movement might cause trouble in its soil. The Communist Party will not allow the existence of the internet to undermine its rule.

Ofc, Chinese netizens aren't all that dumb either, they bypass certain sensitive keywords by using other words which sound similar. The word "harmony" for example is replaced by "river crab" for example, as they sound similar in pronunciation.

China is not the only country that censors its internet. A lot of western countries also does that just to a much lesser degree. The "current" trend is to block off sites such as pirate bay and mediafire to curb piracy.

FeUerFlieGe
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1193 Posts
March 01 2013 01:30 GMT
#6
On March 01 2013 10:23 Hikari wrote:

China is not the only country that censors its internet. A lot of western countries also does that just to a much lesser degree. The "current" trend is to block off sites such as pirate bay and mediafire to curb piracy.



... which is also a profit driven goal. It's safe to say that most internet censorship is profit driven.
To unpathed waters, undreamed shores. - Shakespeare
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-01 01:39:22
March 01 2013 01:38 GMT
#7
Facebook would be a moderating nightmare.... blocked political reasons there.
Blargh
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2102 Posts
March 01 2013 01:51 GMT
#8
I highly doubt it'll ever become any extreme problem in the west (United States), though I definitely believe it will become more and more "censored" or whatever. American culture is heavily based around internet interaction. A heavy censorship would cause an outrage, even to the peons of the internet. Though, anything is possible!

And while I personally wouldn't mind some censorship (LOLOWUTIFPORNWUZCENZUREDLOLOL?), I'd rather keep it all to a minimum. It will certainly be interesting to see how things run in ~50 years!
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
March 01 2013 02:02 GMT
#9
I think some of you thinks if censorship did ever reach these levels on the internet, it's going to be abrupt when it's unlikely that the process will be that abrupt. Cause an outrage? People wouldn't notice it until it hits them.
Get it by your hands...
BuddhaMonk
Profile Joined August 2010
781 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-01 02:20:07
March 01 2013 02:18 GMT
#10
The reason the internet is censored in China is because the government wants to stifle anti-government sentiment in order to retain power more easily. It's the same reason other media is highly controlled and censored.

The corrupt business side of it is simply an ugly side effect. To say that the reason for internet censorship is because of the entrenched business interests of an internet moderation industry that did not exist before the internet was censored does not make a whole lot of sense. What you could say instead is that the business interests are contributing to preserving the status quo of internet censorship.

It's also worth noting that the corruption incidents you describe occur in every industry in China, not just internet. China is well known for being very corrupt, and in fact the Chinese government's stated number one threat to the country is corruption, since most of it occurs on the municipal and provincial levels and serves to undermine the credibility of the government as a whole.
Kevin_Sorbo
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada3217 Posts
March 01 2013 02:18 GMT
#11
On March 01 2013 10:05 MVega wrote:
Being completely honest, I'd be fine with a little internet censorship in the west.





thing is you know where it starts but cant know where it ends so thanks but no thanks

I like the Internet how it is.
The mind is like a parachute, it doesnt work unless its open. - Zappa
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
March 01 2013 02:24 GMT
#12
On March 01 2013 11:18 BuddhaMonk wrote:
The reason the internet is censored in China is because the government wants to stifle anti-government sentiment in order to retain power more easily. It's the same reason other media is highly controlled and censored.

The corrupt business side of it is simply an ugly side effect. To say that the reason for internet censorship is because of the entrenched business interests of an internet moderation industry that did not exist before the internet was censored does not make a whole lot of sense. What you could say instead is that the business interests are contributing to preserving the status quo of internet censorship.

It's also worth noting that the corruption incidents you describe occur in every industry in China, not just internet. China is well known for being very corrupt, and in fact the Chinese government's stated number one threat to the country is corruption, since most of it occurs on the municipal and provincial levels and serves to undermine the credibility of the government as a whole.


There was a study last year about Chinese censorship and found that China actually cares little about anti-government or anti-leader sentiment, but aims to suppress collective activities of any kind.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
March 01 2013 02:29 GMT
#13
So it's essentially like the mafia, offering protection money for certain bad things not happening to companies, (and if you are not in on the deal, we will make it happen).
BuddhaMonk
Profile Joined August 2010
781 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-01 02:38:25
March 01 2013 02:37 GMT
#14
On March 01 2013 11:24 ragz_gt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2013 11:18 BuddhaMonk wrote:
The reason the internet is censored in China is because the government wants to stifle anti-government sentiment in order to retain power more easily. It's the same reason other media is highly controlled and censored.

The corrupt business side of it is simply an ugly side effect. To say that the reason for internet censorship is because of the entrenched business interests of an internet moderation industry that did not exist before the internet was censored does not make a whole lot of sense. What you could say instead is that the business interests are contributing to preserving the status quo of internet censorship.

It's also worth noting that the corruption incidents you describe occur in every industry in China, not just internet. China is well known for being very corrupt, and in fact the Chinese government's stated number one threat to the country is corruption, since most of it occurs on the municipal and provincial levels and serves to undermine the credibility of the government as a whole.


There was a study last year about Chinese censorship and found that China actually cares little about anti-government or anti-leader sentiment, but aims to suppress collective activities of any kind.


Interesting, and I found the study ( http://gking.harvard.edu/files/gking/files/censored.pdf ). However, it should be noted that the scope of the study only applies to social media posts that were deleted after having been posted, not websites and keywords that are simply filtered preemptively. In those preemptive instances they do in fact censor anti-government websites and topics.

Additionally, the broader point of the ultimate goal for the censorship remains; which is that the government is using censorship to retain power. The nuance here is that with respect to social media censorship the study concludes their tactics are to stifle the potential collective actions that result from anti-government sentiment versus stifling the sentiment itself.

They conclude in the study:

As a result, government policies sometimes look as bad, and leaders can be as embarrassed, as is often the case with elected politicians in democratic countries, but, as they seem to recognize, looking bad does not threaten their hold on power so long as they manage to eliminate discussions associated with events that have collective action potential — where a locus of power and control, other than the government, influences the behaviors of masses of Chinese people. With respect to this type of speech, the Chinese people are individually free but collectively in chains.
HataZStriker
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
United States72 Posts
March 01 2013 02:53 GMT
#15
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=400800

on topic, yeah, china is strict.

User was warned for this post
http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/goodreads
Ianuus
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia349 Posts
March 01 2013 08:12 GMT
#16
You're about half right. TBH I think this whole censorship thing is just another way for protectionism - a trade barrier on the internet. I went to China recently, and the Chinese not only have their own version of youtube, but their own versions of facebook and twitter as well. Why would the government allow these sites, with exactly the same functionalities of youtube and facebook, to flourish under their noses? Surely it takes just as much manpower policing these social sites as it does policing the firewall; so why choose to police domestic sites rather than selectively firewalling foreign sites? The answer must be that China is protecting its native internet businesses, allowing domestic versions of Facebook and Youtube to grow and flourish underneath the shadow of its firewall; this is especially relevant on the internet, where this global environment makes it hard for upstarts to compete with entrenched firms and products.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12387 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-01 08:22:15
March 01 2013 08:19 GMT
#17
On March 01 2013 10:23 Hikari wrote:
The internet in China is quite a scary place: beside censorship the government also keeps a close eye on what is being transmitted. Post a picture of the Chinese flag covered by manure on the internet? You are going to be hunted down and arrested (and this happened in Hong Kong, possibly the most democratic region in China).

Last year the government tighten its firewall again during the Arab Spring movement: the government is scared that the movement might cause trouble in its soil. The Communist Party will not allow the existence of the internet to undermine its rule.

Ofc, Chinese netizens aren't all that dumb either, they bypass certain sensitive keywords by using other words which sound similar. The word "harmony" for example is replaced by "river crab" for example, as they sound similar in pronunciation.

China is not the only country that censors its internet. A lot of western countries also does that just to a much lesser degree. The "current" trend is to block off sites such as pirate bay and mediafire to curb piracy.


I am pretty sure doing that in some other country would have same effect, athough they usually burn the flag and not poop on it lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration

It's not that scary. Just go to any chinese forum and there are always people talking shit about the government and nothing happens to them. I do that quite often myself (and my girlfriend lol)
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Xpace
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2209 Posts
March 01 2013 08:46 GMT
#18
On March 01 2013 17:19 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2013 10:23 Hikari wrote:
The internet in China is quite a scary place: beside censorship the government also keeps a close eye on what is being transmitted. Post a picture of the Chinese flag covered by manure on the internet? You are going to be hunted down and arrested (and this happened in Hong Kong, possibly the most democratic region in China).

Last year the government tighten its firewall again during the Arab Spring movement: the government is scared that the movement might cause trouble in its soil. The Communist Party will not allow the existence of the internet to undermine its rule.

Ofc, Chinese netizens aren't all that dumb either, they bypass certain sensitive keywords by using other words which sound similar. The word "harmony" for example is replaced by "river crab" for example, as they sound similar in pronunciation.

China is not the only country that censors its internet. A lot of western countries also does that just to a much lesser degree. The "current" trend is to block off sites such as pirate bay and mediafire to curb piracy.


I am pretty sure doing that in some other country would have same effect, athough they usually burn the flag and not poop on it lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration

It's not that scary. Just go to any chinese forum and there are always people talking shit about the government and nothing happens to them. I do that quite often myself (and my girlfriend lol)


When I was in Hong Kong, I searched Tiananmen Square Massacre on Baidu; to those that don't know, Baidu is China's Google. It's the 5th 'most popular' website in the world behind Google, Facebook, YouTube, and Yahoo!, surpassing Wikipedia at 6th and Windows Live (live.com) at 7th.

The top results were delusional, tacky attempts at censorship, but I was interested enough to keep searching. First was Tank Man. Then I moved on to Premier Wen Jiabao's corruption and how his family amassed ridiculous amounts of money and assets through corruption, that even distant relatives are cashing in hundreds of millions. Google gave me this, and Baidu gave me this.

The most interesting thing to note was that my Internet connection slowed to almost a complete halt literally minutes after searching.
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-01 08:56:51
March 01 2013 08:53 GMT
#19
surprised that the word "brainwashed" isnt mentioned for once

On March 01 2013 17:12 Ianuus wrote:
You're about half right. TBH I think this whole censorship thing is just another way for protectionism - a trade barrier on the internet. I went to China recently, and the Chinese not only have their own version of youtube, but their own versions of facebook and twitter as well. Why would the government allow these sites, with exactly the same functionalities of youtube and facebook, to flourish under their noses? Surely it takes just as much manpower policing these social sites as it does policing the firewall; so why choose to police domestic sites rather than selectively firewalling foreign sites? The answer must be that China is protecting its native internet businesses, allowing domestic versions of Facebook and Youtube to grow and flourish underneath the shadow of its firewall; this is especially relevant on the internet, where this global environment makes it hard for upstarts to compete with entrenched firms and products.


nah foreign investment could yield income. The thing is, shady shit needs to be covered. I bet not many kids born after 1989 would know about the massacre
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-01 09:04:36
March 01 2013 08:58 GMT
#20
this is a rather direct consequence of the chinese govt's control of the people there, not "the other half of the reason."

same goes for more direct and brutal methods of suppression against ordinary protesters at the local level.

comparing this to property rights shaping maneuvers in the west is totally mischaracterising the situation.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
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