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On April 04 2013 20:13 Grettin wrote:
N. Korean defector in South crosses western sea border
Why would people from the South(or who have escaped to the south) want to go back to the North?
Don't they face horrible punishments for defecting in the first place?
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On April 04 2013 20:32 baldgye wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 20:13 Grettin wrote:
N. Korean defector in South crosses western sea border Why would people from the South(or who have escaped to the south) want to go back to the North? Don't they face horrible punishments for defecting in the first place?
Thats the key question, maybe he has heard something from the North and doesn't want to be in the south incase of war, or maybe hes completely mad.
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On April 04 2013 20:32 baldgye wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 20:13 Grettin wrote:
N. Korean defector in South crosses western sea border Why would people from the South(or who have escaped to the south) want to go back to the North? Don't they face horrible punishments for defecting in the first place?
Only reason I would see is he was a spy of some sort.
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On April 04 2013 20:32 baldgye wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 20:13 Grettin wrote:
N. Korean defector in South crosses western sea border Why would people from the South(or who have escaped to the south) want to go back to the North? Don't they face horrible punishments for defecting in the first place?
Maybe someone likes communism better then democracy or fears from N.Korea 
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On April 04 2013 20:38 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 20:32 baldgye wrote:On April 04 2013 20:13 Grettin wrote:
N. Korean defector in South crosses western sea border Why would people from the South(or who have escaped to the south) want to go back to the North? Don't they face horrible punishments for defecting in the first place? Only reason I would see is he was a spy of some sort.
Yeah, this was something that popped into my head, but wouldn't the south have known this?
And given that he was simply a fisherman while he was South and not some government official or even linked to something like that, what could he have learned that NK couldn't find out easier by just going online?
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On April 04 2013 20:38 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 20:32 baldgye wrote:On April 04 2013 20:13 Grettin wrote:
N. Korean defector in South crosses western sea border Why would people from the South(or who have escaped to the south) want to go back to the North? Don't they face horrible punishments for defecting in the first place? Only reason I would see is he was a spy of some sort.
To me it's more like : "Why a fisherman stealing a boat to go illegally into another country is mediatisez like that ?".
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On April 04 2013 18:09 ConGee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 18:04 sgfightmaster wrote:On April 04 2013 17:27 GoDannY wrote:On April 04 2013 17:06 sgfightmaster wrote:On April 04 2013 15:06 chimpandfrog wrote:On April 04 2013 14:45 white_horse wrote:On April 04 2013 14:01 chimpandfrog wrote:On April 04 2013 13:36 white_horse wrote:On April 04 2013 13:25 chimpandfrog wrote:On April 04 2013 12:37 krndandaman wrote:
[quote]
China is getting tired of NK but they remain their allies because what worries them more is the lack of a buffer zone between them and South Korea/USA.
If NK collapses (which they will without Chinese help) the US/SK will be right on their borders. They don't want that. All these assumptions about China backing NK in case of it performing a nuclear strike are hilarious. What's even funnier is thinking in terms of SK/USA being a threat to Chinese border. As if USA and SK would simultaneously attack China with their ground forces rofl. This is just so fearmongerish and childish to me. Theres historical precedence for this, because it's exactly what happened during the korean war, and it's the main reason why the US/south korean forces couldn't reunify the country at that time. I don't think anyone wants the US and china to confront each other on the korean peninsula again. Historical precedence from cold war era doesn't explain anything that has to do with modern day affairs. It is entirely different and would simply not fly in this information age and 24/7 awareness. It's as good as modeling after 1812 events. You can't be serious or you are trolling me. The geopolitics haven't changed. North korea serves as the perfect buffer to a major US ally from their doorstep and they do not want to lose that. On April 04 2013 14:35 aksfjh wrote:
Do we have any SK opinions on this round of NK threats? I think people are more scared than usual because the rhetoric is a lot worse in this round of warmongering, people are still uncertain about kim jong-un's intentions, and because of nuclear bombs as a factor that wasn't there before. But south korea has gone through all kinds of north korean antics (sending commandos on a bus to kill the south korean president or digging underground tunnels to invade south korea easily) so I don't think people are sitting at home scared for their lives.. Geopolitics of tin soldiers and horses is very different from geopolitics of spirit bombers, nuclear submarines and laser beams. If you don't see how or why I can explain. I really think your and many other posters ideas on "buffer states" need to be seriously revised. Btw I don't even understand what you wrote in your answer, who's doorstep?.. i'm not sure why anyone would be so confused or think buffer states are irrelevant. basically the balance of power would shift way in favour of USA if they could station troops/bases that close to china. this means they have more leverage in trade discussions, negotiations etc and thats not really what china wants, is it? I really doubt it is a benefit to inhale NK from a military/strategic standpoint tbh. Imagine if Korea reunites somehow, either by force or peaceful, this is not at all like the German reunion. I mean even with a fairly strong industry/infrastructure it took ages to get both parts of Germany to a fairly equal level economy-wise (which btw even today isnt the case really) . Now you have SK which is a modern, high-tech society but a heavily on trade relying economy. NK meanwhile is basicly living in the past for 50 years and way behind in every aspect. Building up this area will be more than a heavy burden that noone can afford, even with all force combined. By that, I dont want to neglect that the reunion would be beneficial from a human standpoint, considering the camps (KZ) in NK, the political prisoners and also the aspect of reuniting the nation itself. i dont know much about germany east or west so that was pretty interesting. all we were discussing is the possibility of china intervening in a war between NK and SK so i pointed out that having NK completely overrun would be strategically bad for china. It still makes less sense for China to support NK and risk pissing off its top trading partner. If NK launches a military offensive and SK and the US intervene, they wouldn't produce any direct military aid to NK.
if taiwan ever declared independence from china in an unambiguous, unequivocal manner, expect china to attack no matter how pissed off USA gets. there are certain lines that simply cannot be crossed. how do you know having american troops on the chinese border isn't an uncrossable line? to make such a confident statement that they wouldn't produce direct military aid
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On April 04 2013 20:20 Pjorren wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 20:02 ImFromPortugal wrote:On April 04 2013 19:27 Robinsa wrote:On April 04 2013 18:58 ImFromPortugal wrote:On April 04 2013 18:27 iMAniaC wrote:On April 04 2013 10:46 docvoc wrote:
What would happen if Japan were to get involved? How much of a burden would be put on them since Japan and China aren't exactly chummy. I think this would be quite of a big deal, actually. After WW2, it was decided that it would be best if Japan did not send troops outside their borders ever again, and so it was written their constitution that they should not have any military, only internal defence forces. Of course, those defence forces are, for all intents and purposes, a significant military, but the thought that they should not go outside Japan's borders are so ingrained in the minds of the Japanese, Koreans and Chinese, that actually having them go to North Korea wouldn't sit well with anyone, really. Japanese defence forces have actually gone to Iraq (if I remember correctly), but the Koreans have not forgotten that Japan annexed the whole of Korea a hundred years ago, so having them go ("back") to North Korea is very different and many Koreans do actually harbour strong feelings against the Japanese. It's not like the friendly bickering between the US or Canada or something like that; they're really not friends even though they often try to be. If Japanese forces went to North Korea, there are bound to be someone making mistakes, probably on all sides (i.e. NK civilians, SK military and Japanese) and the relationship would be even further strained. And China would probably make a big fuss about it as well, making sure everyone remembers their history. All in all, though, I think the diplomatic relations would be able to take the strain. After all, it might be even worse if the Japanese would sit back and let the South Korean solve their own problems... That's my two cents. China will never forget the horrors committed by the japanese in the ww2 Well theyre doing the best they can to keep the hate alive as far as I can tell. Good for you the native americans forgot what you did to them in SA! Well history is hard to forget and it wasn't that long ago, i understand hate is not the answer but it isn't easy. And btw im not american. It seems like you've forgot too :D
So what did i forgot about my history?
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On April 04 2013 20:45 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 20:38 Roggay wrote:On April 04 2013 20:32 baldgye wrote:On April 04 2013 20:13 Grettin wrote:
N. Korean defector in South crosses western sea border Why would people from the South(or who have escaped to the south) want to go back to the North? Don't they face horrible punishments for defecting in the first place? Only reason I would see is he was a spy of some sort. To me it's more like : "Why a fisherman stealing a boat to go illegally into another country is mediatisez like that ?".
this is interesting ""The ship is seen to have made its approach near the radar's blind spot," maybe he knew how to avoid the radars.
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On April 04 2013 21:37 ImFromPortugal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 20:45 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 04 2013 20:38 Roggay wrote:On April 04 2013 20:32 baldgye wrote:On April 04 2013 20:13 Grettin wrote:
N. Korean defector in South crosses western sea border Why would people from the South(or who have escaped to the south) want to go back to the North? Don't they face horrible punishments for defecting in the first place? Only reason I would see is he was a spy of some sort. To me it's more like : "Why a fisherman stealing a boat to go illegally into another country is mediatisez like that ?". this is interesting "" The ship is seen to have made its approach near the radar's blind spot," maybe he knew how to avoid the radars.
Yeah but if it avoided radars how can they know ? I don't get it. Maybe my english isn't good enough 
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It's phrased like he purposely went for the blind spot. So it's safe to assume he knew where it was. Or we are mistaken and he was just lucky lol.
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EU foreign affairs chief Ashton says she deplores Pyongyang's announcement it would reopen its Yongbyon nuclear reactor - @AFP
North Korea's decision to pursue nuclear program radically limits chances to resume 6-party talks, Russian foreign ministry says - @Reuters
RT @cnni: North Korea could be planning to launch mobile ballistic missile in coming days or weeks, says U.S. official http://t.co/DShlE ...
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On April 04 2013 21:35 ImFromPortugal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 20:20 Pjorren wrote:On April 04 2013 20:02 ImFromPortugal wrote:On April 04 2013 19:27 Robinsa wrote:On April 04 2013 18:58 ImFromPortugal wrote:On April 04 2013 18:27 iMAniaC wrote:On April 04 2013 10:46 docvoc wrote:
What would happen if Japan were to get involved? How much of a burden would be put on them since Japan and China aren't exactly chummy. I think this would be quite of a big deal, actually. After WW2, it was decided that it would be best if Japan did not send troops outside their borders ever again, and so it was written their constitution that they should not have any military, only internal defence forces. Of course, those defence forces are, for all intents and purposes, a significant military, but the thought that they should not go outside Japan's borders are so ingrained in the minds of the Japanese, Koreans and Chinese, that actually having them go to North Korea wouldn't sit well with anyone, really. Japanese defence forces have actually gone to Iraq (if I remember correctly), but the Koreans have not forgotten that Japan annexed the whole of Korea a hundred years ago, so having them go ("back") to North Korea is very different and many Koreans do actually harbour strong feelings against the Japanese. It's not like the friendly bickering between the US or Canada or something like that; they're really not friends even though they often try to be. If Japanese forces went to North Korea, there are bound to be someone making mistakes, probably on all sides (i.e. NK civilians, SK military and Japanese) and the relationship would be even further strained. And China would probably make a big fuss about it as well, making sure everyone remembers their history. All in all, though, I think the diplomatic relations would be able to take the strain. After all, it might be even worse if the Japanese would sit back and let the South Korean solve their own problems... That's my two cents. China will never forget the horrors committed by the japanese in the ww2 Well theyre doing the best they can to keep the hate alive as far as I can tell. Good for you the native americans forgot what you did to them in SA! Well history is hard to forget and it wasn't that long ago, i understand hate is not the answer but it isn't easy. And btw im not american. It seems like you've forgot too :D So what did i forgot about my history?
You've apparently forgotten about Native Americans and Africans that Portuguese were raping for centuries. If you're ignorant and uneducated - don't ever speak on sensitive subjects, especially without even knowing history of your own country.
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On April 05 2013 00:44 chimpandfrog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 21:35 ImFromPortugal wrote:On April 04 2013 20:20 Pjorren wrote:On April 04 2013 20:02 ImFromPortugal wrote:On April 04 2013 19:27 Robinsa wrote:On April 04 2013 18:58 ImFromPortugal wrote:On April 04 2013 18:27 iMAniaC wrote:On April 04 2013 10:46 docvoc wrote:
What would happen if Japan were to get involved? How much of a burden would be put on them since Japan and China aren't exactly chummy. I think this would be quite of a big deal, actually. After WW2, it was decided that it would be best if Japan did not send troops outside their borders ever again, and so it was written their constitution that they should not have any military, only internal defence forces. Of course, those defence forces are, for all intents and purposes, a significant military, but the thought that they should not go outside Japan's borders are so ingrained in the minds of the Japanese, Koreans and Chinese, that actually having them go to North Korea wouldn't sit well with anyone, really. Japanese defence forces have actually gone to Iraq (if I remember correctly), but the Koreans have not forgotten that Japan annexed the whole of Korea a hundred years ago, so having them go ("back") to North Korea is very different and many Koreans do actually harbour strong feelings against the Japanese. It's not like the friendly bickering between the US or Canada or something like that; they're really not friends even though they often try to be. If Japanese forces went to North Korea, there are bound to be someone making mistakes, probably on all sides (i.e. NK civilians, SK military and Japanese) and the relationship would be even further strained. And China would probably make a big fuss about it as well, making sure everyone remembers their history. All in all, though, I think the diplomatic relations would be able to take the strain. After all, it might be even worse if the Japanese would sit back and let the South Korean solve their own problems... That's my two cents. China will never forget the horrors committed by the japanese in the ww2 Well theyre doing the best they can to keep the hate alive as far as I can tell. Good for you the native americans forgot what you did to them in SA! Well history is hard to forget and it wasn't that long ago, i understand hate is not the answer but it isn't easy. And btw im not american. It seems like you've forgot too :D So what did i forgot about my history? You've apparently forgotten about Native Americans and Africans that Portuguese were raping for centuries. If you're ignorant and uneducated - don't ever speak on sensitive subjects, especially without even knowing history of your own country.
You forget Indians (yes the one's that are actually from India), Chinese and South Asians (East Timor), does this mean you should also refrain from speaking about this subject?
Not being fully informed on all subjects all the time is normal. I am also not a fan of "But your ancestors did bad stuff too".
@the Anonymus thingy: I think it's funny, but won't have any serious effects on the issue.
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One would think that if one owned a 9 ton crab fishing boat then one would not leave the keys in the engine
But I guess everyone is prone to mistakes. What valuable information could a fisherman know? If he was a spy he might not have been a very good one
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On April 04 2013 21:19 sgfightmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 18:09 ConGee wrote:On April 04 2013 18:04 sgfightmaster wrote:On April 04 2013 17:27 GoDannY wrote:On April 04 2013 17:06 sgfightmaster wrote:On April 04 2013 15:06 chimpandfrog wrote:On April 04 2013 14:45 white_horse wrote:On April 04 2013 14:01 chimpandfrog wrote:On April 04 2013 13:36 white_horse wrote:On April 04 2013 13:25 chimpandfrog wrote:
[quote]
All these assumptions about China backing NK in case of it performing a nuclear strike are hilarious.
What's even funnier is thinking in terms of SK/USA being a threat to Chinese border. As if USA and SK would simultaneously attack China with their ground forces rofl. This is just so fearmongerish and childish to me. Theres historical precedence for this, because it's exactly what happened during the korean war, and it's the main reason why the US/south korean forces couldn't reunify the country at that time. I don't think anyone wants the US and china to confront each other on the korean peninsula again. Historical precedence from cold war era doesn't explain anything that has to do with modern day affairs. It is entirely different and would simply not fly in this information age and 24/7 awareness. It's as good as modeling after 1812 events. You can't be serious or you are trolling me. The geopolitics haven't changed. North korea serves as the perfect buffer to a major US ally from their doorstep and they do not want to lose that. On April 04 2013 14:35 aksfjh wrote:
Do we have any SK opinions on this round of NK threats? I think people are more scared than usual because the rhetoric is a lot worse in this round of warmongering, people are still uncertain about kim jong-un's intentions, and because of nuclear bombs as a factor that wasn't there before. But south korea has gone through all kinds of north korean antics (sending commandos on a bus to kill the south korean president or digging underground tunnels to invade south korea easily) so I don't think people are sitting at home scared for their lives.. Geopolitics of tin soldiers and horses is very different from geopolitics of spirit bombers, nuclear submarines and laser beams. If you don't see how or why I can explain. I really think your and many other posters ideas on "buffer states" need to be seriously revised. Btw I don't even understand what you wrote in your answer, who's doorstep?.. i'm not sure why anyone would be so confused or think buffer states are irrelevant. basically the balance of power would shift way in favour of USA if they could station troops/bases that close to china. this means they have more leverage in trade discussions, negotiations etc and thats not really what china wants, is it? I really doubt it is a benefit to inhale NK from a military/strategic standpoint tbh. Imagine if Korea reunites somehow, either by force or peaceful, this is not at all like the German reunion. I mean even with a fairly strong industry/infrastructure it took ages to get both parts of Germany to a fairly equal level economy-wise (which btw even today isnt the case really) . Now you have SK which is a modern, high-tech society but a heavily on trade relying economy. NK meanwhile is basicly living in the past for 50 years and way behind in every aspect. Building up this area will be more than a heavy burden that noone can afford, even with all force combined. By that, I dont want to neglect that the reunion would be beneficial from a human standpoint, considering the camps (KZ) in NK, the political prisoners and also the aspect of reuniting the nation itself. i dont know much about germany east or west so that was pretty interesting. all we were discussing is the possibility of china intervening in a war between NK and SK so i pointed out that having NK completely overrun would be strategically bad for china. It still makes less sense for China to support NK and risk pissing off its top trading partner. If NK launches a military offensive and SK and the US intervene, they wouldn't produce any direct military aid to NK. if taiwan ever declared independence from china in an unambiguous, unequivocal manner, expect china to attack no matter how pissed off USA gets. there are certain lines that simply cannot be crossed. how do you know having american troops on the chinese border isn't an uncrossable line? to make such a confident statement that they wouldn't produce direct military aid
Earlier in the thread they said that Obama was in talks with the Chinese leader, so maybe something diplomatic can be worked out.
In any case, if the lack of a buffer zone is really what worries the Chinese, there's always the option of giving them the North Korean section of the peninsula or having a joint occupation or something of the like. I dunno, just tossing out ideas here.
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On April 04 2013 20:38 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 20:32 baldgye wrote:On April 04 2013 20:13 Grettin wrote:
N. Korean defector in South crosses western sea border Why would people from the South(or who have escaped to the south) want to go back to the North? Don't they face horrible punishments for defecting in the first place? Only reason I would see is he was a spy of some sort.
Perhaps its possible that he had family back in N. Korea and he wanted to try to get them out before all hell broke loose?
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I wonder how Jong-Un will react when they start calling him and asking for battletoads
So now there's reports that the military is retreating from their 'high' alert positions - is this thing finally dying down? Or will NK keep up the talk despite scaling back internally?
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EPT
