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Scientists go below Absolute Zero

Forum Index > General Forum
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Note from micronesia: please read the thread before making comments about how we have just turned physics on its head.
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-05 23:46:01
January 05 2013 14:57 GMT
#1
Yeah.

http://www.nature.com/news/quantum-gas-goes-below-absolute-zero-1.12146

It may sound less likely than hell freezing over, but physicists have created an atomic gas with a sub-absolute-zero temperature for the first time1. Their technique opens the door to generating negative-Kelvin materials and new quantum devices, and it could even help to solve a cosmological mystery.

Lord Kelvin defined the absolute temperature scale in the mid-1800s in such a way that nothing could be colder than absolute zero. Physicists later realized that the absolute temperature of a gas is related to the average energy of its particles. Absolute zero corresponds to the theoretical state in which particles have no energy at all, and higher temperatures correspond to higher average energies.

However, by the 1950s, physicists working with more exotic systems began to realise that this isn't always true: Technically, you read off the temperature of a system from a graph that plots the probabilities of its particles being found with certain energies. Normally, most particles have average or near-average energies, with only a few particles zipping around at higher energies. In theory, if the situation is reversed, with more particles having higher, rather than lower, energies, the plot would flip over and the sign of the temperature would change from a positive to a negative absolute temperature, explains Ulrich Schneider, a physicist at the Ludwig Maximilian University in Munich, Germany.

Schneider and his colleagues reached such sub-absolute-zero temperatures with an ultracold quantum gas made up of potassium atoms. Using lasers and magnetic fields, they kept the individual atoms in a lattice arrangement. At positive temperatures, the atoms repel, making the configuration stable. The team then quickly adjusted the magnetic fields, causing the atoms to attract rather than repel each other. “This suddenly shifts the atoms from their most stable, lowest-energy state to the highest possible energy state, before they can react,” says Schneider. “It’s like walking through a valley, then instantly finding yourself on the mountain peak.”

At positive temperatures, such a reversal would be unstable and the atoms would collapse inwards. But the team also adjusted the trapping laser field to make it more energetically favourable for the atoms to stick in their positions. This result, described today in Science1, marks the gas’s transition from just above absolute zero to a few billionths of a Kelvin below absolute zero.

Wolfgang Ketterle, a physicist and Nobel laureate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge, who has previously demonstrated negative absolute temperatures in a magnetic system2, calls the latest work an “experimental tour de force”. Exotic high-energy states that are hard to generate in the laboratory at positive temperatures become stable at negative absolute temperatures — “as though you can stand a pyramid on its head and not worry about it toppling over,” he notes — and so such techniques can allow these states to be studied in detail. “This may be a way to create new forms of matter in the laboratory,” Ketterle adds.

If built, such systems would behave in strange ways, says Achim Rosch, a theoretical physicist at the University of Cologne in Germany, who proposed the technique used by Schneider and his team3. For instance, Rosch and his colleagues have calculated that whereas clouds of atoms would normally be pulled downwards by gravity, if part of the cloud is at a negative absolute temperature, some atoms will move upwards, apparently defying gravity4.

Another peculiarity of the sub-absolute-zero gas is that it mimics 'dark energy', the mysterious force that pushes the Universe to expand at an ever-faster rate against the inward pull of gravity. Schneider notes that the attractive atoms in the gas produced by the team also want to collapse inwards, but do not because the negative absolute temperature stabilises them. “It’s interesting that this weird feature pops up in the Universe and also in the lab,” he says. “This may be something that cosmologists should look at more closely.”


Physics itself is being rewritten gentlemen. We have broken the seemingly impossible to break barrier in temperature, and may have the ability to replicate Dark Energy-esque forces in a lab.

What do you think some of the implications may be?

Paper Itself:

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1211.0545v1.pdf

EDIT: Secondary source:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/01/below-absolute-zero/

+ Show Spoiler +
Physicists have created a quantum gas capable of reaching temperatures below absolute zero, paving the way for future quantum inventions.

Wired U.K.
The chilly substance was composed of potassium atoms which were held in a lattice arrangement using a combination of lasers and magnetic fields. According to a news report in the journal Nature, by tweaking the magnetic fields the research team were able to force the atoms to attract rather than repel one another and reveal the sub-absolute zero properties of the gas.

“This suddenly shifts the atoms from their most stable, lowest-energy state to the highest possible energy state, before they can react,” said Ulrich Schneider of the Ludwig Maximilian University in Munich to Nature. “It’s like walking through a valley, then instantly finding yourself on the mountain peak.”

Schneider’s findings were published Jan. 3 in Science.

Previously absolute zero was considered to be the theoretical lower limit of temperature as temperature correlates with the average amount of energy of the substance’s particles. At absolute zero particles were thought to have zero energy.

Moving into the sub-absolute zero realm, matter begins to display odd properties. Clouds of atoms drift upwards instead of down, while the atomic matrix’s ability to resist collapsing in on itself echoes the forces causing the universe to expand outwards rather than contracting under the influence of gravity.

The ability to produce a relatively stable substance at several billionths of a Kelvin below absolute zero will allow physicists to better study and understand this curious state, possibly leading to other innovations.

“This may be a way to create new forms of matter in the laboratory,” said Wolfgang Ketterle, a Nobel laureate at MIT, commenting in Nature on the results.


EDIT 2: Useful posts

On January 06 2013 00:41 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 23:57 Fruscainte wrote:
Physics itself is being rewritten gentlemen. We have broken the seemingly impossible to break barrier in temperature, and may have the ability to replicate Dark Energy-esque forces in a lab.

We have been able to get negative temperatures since before this paper.... it is just the first time it was done with a gas, I believe.

The common understanding of temperature that it is a measure of the speed of the motion of molecules in a system, while useful, is not accurate. You can actually define temperature using this formula:

1/T = dS/dU where S is entropy and U is internal energy. Temperature therefore has to do with how a change in internal energy relates to a change in entropy. For normal systems (positive Kelvin temperatures) increasing energy of a system will increase entropy (this is very important for studying the Carnot Cycle). For systems where the opposite happens (negative temperature), the object will give off heat to any system it comes into thermal equilibrium with. A few cases:

System A      System B                        Result
Warm            Hot                               Heat flows from hot to warm; temperatures equalize
Negative      Warm                               Heat flows from negative temperature system to warm system
Negative      Very Hot                        Heat flows from negative temperature system to hot system

Another example where you can get negative temperature: Place a 2-state paramagnet into a magnetic field such that the dipoles align. Then, reverse the magnetic field polarity.

On January 06 2013 00:43 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 00:41 Whitewing wrote:
Okay so, they are hitting a temperature below it by looking at the definition in a cute fashion, but they aren't actually able to hit absolute zero perfectly either.

Still impressive though.

This is true. It's easier to get a negative temperature than absolute zero. We have gotten very close to absolute zero from the positive direction though! (millionths of a kelvin, I believe)

Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 00:43 emythrel wrote:
a few billionths below aboluste zero? phew. For a second i thought we had again discovered that we were completely wrong about the universe. While a few billionths is a massive deal, its not like they managed to go a whole degree below or further, which would mean a complete re-write of some major components of modern physics.

I think you are misunderstanding what this means. It's not that we broke physics, but so minorly that it can be written off... it's that the conventional understanding of temperature is incorrect. I realized this when I studied thermal physics, well before this article.

Terrix
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany305 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-05 15:08:37
January 05 2013 15:06 GMT
#2
I thought absolute zero was no movement in molecules... How can you have less than no movement?

Instead of repelling each other, they attract each other, with temperature? I'm really not educated enough to understand this...

Edit: Flip the chart gives them negative temperature? what what what?
thOr6136
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Slovenia1775 Posts
January 05 2013 15:07 GMT
#3
holy fuck, chills~
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
January 05 2013 15:08 GMT
#4
I guess it depends on how you define temperature.

If you release these atoms from their arrangement, you would not get heat transfering to them, but from them.
Moderator<:3-/-<
Takkara
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2503 Posts
January 05 2013 15:09 GMT
#5
On January 06 2013 00:06 Terrix wrote:
I thought absolute zero was no movement in molecules... How can you have less than no movement?

Instead of repelling each other, they attract each other, with temperature? I'm really not educated enough to understand this...

The entire middle of the article, including a bolded part, explains what it means.
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
Datauven
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden3 Posts
January 05 2013 15:09 GMT
#6
Wow.. Just wow.

It's quite like when the aincent greek speculated about the atom beeing as small as smal can bee. It seems that the Absolut zero ain't defined right but it seams to be an negliglable error for everyday use. :-)
Zealotdriver
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1557 Posts
January 05 2013 15:09 GMT
#7
On January 06 2013 00:06 Terrix wrote:
I thought absolute zero was no movement in molecules... How can you have less than no movement?

I think the temperature is calculated based on the energy state probabilities of the atoms, and they achieved a high energy state with the atoms locked in position, which results in the calculated temperature being negative.
Turn off the radio
TheAmazombie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States3714 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-05 15:16:45
January 05 2013 15:10 GMT
#8
Yeah, I read this yesterday, so it is not that they actually got "colder" than absolute zero, but only when defining temps by the laws of thermodynamics and entropy...it is still a really cool and interesting feat, but it is a bit misleading the way they are saying it is "colder than absolute zero." They actually pumped more energy into this and created a state where entropy decreased with more energy, which is opposite of what is supposed to happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

I am still very curious on what kinds of things they will still find and discover by this.
We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery, we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. -Charlie Chaplin
ShadoWYP
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany83 Posts
January 05 2013 15:11 GMT
#9
On January 06 2013 00:06 Terrix wrote:
I thought absolute zero was no movement in molecules... How can you have less than no movement?

Instead of repelling each other, they attract each other, with temperature? I'm really not educated enough to understand this...

Edit: Flip the chart gives them negative temperature? what what what?


I guess no movement means no energy at all.
Terrix
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany305 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-05 15:21:13
January 05 2013 15:20 GMT
#10
On January 06 2013 00:09 Takkara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 00:06 Terrix wrote:
I thought absolute zero was no movement in molecules... How can you have less than no movement?

Instead of repelling each other, they attract each other, with temperature? I'm really not educated enough to understand this...

The entire middle of the article, including a bolded part, explains what it means.


See that's what I read and then asked the question...
It's later explained by other ppl here
On January 06 2013 00:10 TheAmazombie wrote:
Yeah, I read this yesterday, so it is not that they actually got "colder" than absolute zero, but only when defining temps by the laws of thermodynamics and entropy...it is still a really cool and interesting feat, but it is a bit misleading the way they are saying it is "colder than absolute zero."

I am still very curious on what kinds of things they will still find and discover by this.

, and here

I think the temperature is calculated based on the energy state probabilities of the atoms, and they achieved a high energy state with the atoms locked in position, which results in the calculated temperature being negative.


So I'm still not sure on whether or not my understanding of absolute zero is wrong or now, but by having these unstable energy state probabilities you can have a scenario that is, in theory, under absolute zero... But how are they defying gravity now... This seems all very neat and sci-fi esque, but lab based and far from our daily lives D: Would be cool to have -1 Kelvin hover boards or something xD

edit: omg I'm a zergling!
Smoot
Profile Joined April 2011
United States128 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-05 15:29:35
January 05 2013 15:27 GMT
#11
@Terrix

On the sub atomic level, gravity is a negligible force compared to everything else which needs to be accounted for. It is sort of a buzz word.. "defy gravity"... but in reality, the mass of particles are so small, that gravity is almost non-existent anyway.
ThomasjServo
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
15244 Posts
January 05 2013 15:33 GMT
#12
Well guys, we broke the universe. I hope you all are happy with yourselves.
CursOr
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States6335 Posts
January 05 2013 15:38 GMT
#13
On January 06 2013 00:33 ThomasjServo wrote:
Well guys, we broke the universe. I hope you all are happy with yourselves.

LOL Nerd Chills. ^_^
CJ forever (-_-(-_-(-_-(-_-)-_-)-_-)-_-)
Spinoza
Profile Joined October 2010
667 Posts
January 05 2013 15:38 GMT
#14
http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/01/scientists-create-negative-temperature-system/

This explains it a bit better in my opinion.
FanTaSy | Flash | Movie | Leta | Stork | Map:Destination[BW]
Ludwigvan
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany2371 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-05 15:39:33
January 05 2013 15:39 GMT
#15
Negative temperatures can only exist in a system where there are a limited number of energy states (see below). As the temperature is increased on such a system, particles move into higher and higher energy states, and as the temperature increases, the number of particles in the lower energy states and in the higher energy states approaches equality. (This is a consequence of the definition of temperature in statistical mechanics for systems with limited states.) By injecting energy into these systems in the right fashion, it is possible to create a system in which there are more particles in the higher energy states than in the lower ones. The system can then be characterised as having a negative temperature. A substance with a negative temperature is not colder than absolute zero, but rather it is hotter than infinite temperature.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_temperature
FluffyBinLaden
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States527 Posts
January 05 2013 15:40 GMT
#16
Science is confusing. The lack of... absoluteness even in the absolutes... it's strange.

It's an interesting thought.
Riddles in the Dark. Answers in the Light.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24664 Posts
January 05 2013 15:41 GMT
#17
On January 05 2013 23:57 Fruscainte wrote:
Physics itself is being rewritten gentlemen. We have broken the seemingly impossible to break barrier in temperature, and may have the ability to replicate Dark Energy-esque forces in a lab.

We have been able to get negative temperatures since before this paper.... it is just the first time it was done with a gas, I believe.

The common understanding of temperature that it is a measure of the speed of the motion of molecules in a system, while useful, is not accurate. You can actually define temperature using this formula:

1/T = dS/dU where S is entropy and U is internal energy. Temperature therefore has to do with how a change in internal energy relates to a change in entropy. For normal systems (positive Kelvin temperatures) increasing energy of a system will increase entropy (this is very important for studying the Carnot Cycle). For systems where the opposite happens (negative temperature), the object will give off heat to any system it comes into thermal equilibrium with. A few cases:

System A      System B                        Result
Warm            Hot                               Heat flows from hot to warm; temperatures equalize
Negative      Warm                               Heat flows from negative temperature system to warm system
Negative      Very Hot                        Heat flows from negative temperature system to hot system

Another example where you can get negative temperature: Place a 2-state paramagnet into a magnetic field such that the dipoles align. Then, reverse the magnetic field polarity.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
January 05 2013 15:41 GMT
#18
Okay so, they are hitting a temperature below it by looking at the definition in a cute fashion, but they aren't actually able to hit absolute zero perfectly either.

Still impressive though.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Snorkels
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1015 Posts
January 05 2013 15:41 GMT
#19
On January 06 2013 00:38 CursOr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 00:33 ThomasjServo wrote:
Well guys, we broke the universe. I hope you all are happy with yourselves.

LOL Nerd Chills. ^_^

WP

I've wondered in the last year or so why breaking a hard barrier of the speed of light is a well known science fiction trope but the absolute zero barrier is unexplored. It should be interesting to see what can be influenced by this new knowledge.
emythrel
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom2599 Posts
January 05 2013 15:43 GMT
#20
a few billionths below aboluste zero? phew. For a second i thought we had again discovered that we were completely wrong about the universe. While a few billionths is a massive deal, its not like they managed to go a whole degree below or further, which would mean a complete re-write of some major components of modern physics.
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
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