I don't want to start any big argument because the gun control issue is very divisive and their are valid points on both sides but shit happens. And these accidents are bound to happen and shouldn't be used as evidence to force an entire nation to relinquish their personal weapons.
People get killed by TVs falling too. And slip in the shower. Accidents happen.
Instead of arguing based on these small examples, argue against or for gun control on principal, where, both sides have valid points.
Again, I feel bad for these people. Identify the target first before shooting.
On October 12 2012 22:20 Nizaris wrote: It is ridiculous that you can even shoot some1 if your life isn't in any danger.
I think its ridiculous that you think you should be able to waltz into someones home without fear of getting hurt, but both of our views are just opinions. However, I think yours is the more wrong one here but posts like these contribute very little to what actually happened here...
Getting hurt is something else than getting instantly murdered. Who the fuck shoots a burglar in the head anyway? Not even a warning shot.. not even a non fatal shot... nope.. just straight for the head.
A cop who is surrounded by violence at work shoots first and asks questions later. Although I disagree with his actions, I think I just gave perfectly good evidence for why he did what he did.
On October 12 2012 15:11 Cascade wrote: Even if it he would be 100% sure that it was a burglar, taking the decision to kill another person over having some stuff stolen, is completely beyond my understanding. Killing before even being sure who it is, is just sad.
Sorry but I do not value your life greater than household possessions. Break into my house and try to steal my shit and you will die If I have the power to do so.
Come into my home and try to steal my son's or wife's shit. I will murder you and piss on the gunshot wounds.
Actually just break into my home. you will be dead before you have a chance to see what I have to steal.
Don't you understand this is exactly why this happened? The "shoot and ask later" mentality is beyond retarded.
This whole story is just awful. I can't imagine how the father must feel like... I don't think I could live with that on my conscience.
On October 12 2012 23:09 Sbrubbles wrote: Such a sad story. Just goes to show that when guns are involved, shit can happen even in if the user is a highly trained person. Still, though I am generally in favor of gun control, I still fully accept that ex-cops need guns. It's a matter of being prepared if a criminal comes back looking for revenge.
What makes cops special? Normal people have enemies just as well as cops. So by your argument shouldn't all people be allowed to defend themselves from their past?
On October 12 2012 22:20 Nizaris wrote: It is ridiculous that you can even shoot some1 if your life isn't in any danger.
I think its ridiculous that you think you should be able to waltz into someones home without fear of getting hurt, but both of our views are just opinions. However, I think yours is the more wrong one here but posts like these contribute very little to what actually happened here...
gun related death in your country shows that you're wrong and i'm not.
Some1 robs you here and you kill him, you'll go to jail for murder as it should be. This isn't the Wild West anymore.
On October 12 2012 22:10 Cheerio wrote: why the fuck did he shoot him right in the head if he thought it was a burglar? He could have injured him, isnt it what policemen are taught to do?
I believe that policemen are actually trained to kill, because they should never pull a weapon unless in the absolute dire need to and if they need to fire, that its an assurance to drop the person. Also the man is 71, he's probably playing with a full deck anymore.
Not here (or in most places outside the US, I assume). Sure, it protects the cop but completely ignores the rights of the other person.
On October 12 2012 15:11 Cascade wrote: Even if it he would be 100% sure that it was a burglar, taking the decision to kill another person over having some stuff stolen, is completely beyond my understanding. Killing before even being sure who it is, is just sad.
Sorry but I do not value your life greater than household possessions. Break into my house and try to steal my shit and you will die If I have the power to do so.
Come into my home and try to steal my son's or wife's shit. I will murder you and piss on the gunshot wounds.
Actually just break into my home. you will be dead before you have a chance to see what I have to steal.
That's one fucked up mentality right there... mr macho man lol .
On October 12 2012 15:11 Cascade wrote: Even if it he would be 100% sure that it was a burglar, taking the decision to kill another person over having some stuff stolen, is completely beyond my understanding. Killing before even being sure who it is, is just sad.
Sorry but I do not value your life greater than household possessions. Break into my house and try to steal my shit and you will die If I have the power to do so.
Come into my home and try to steal my son's or wife's shit. I will murder you and piss on the gunshot wounds.
Actually just break into my home. you will be dead before you have a chance to see what I have to steal.
That's one fucked up mentality right there... mr macho man lol .
On October 12 2012 15:11 Cascade wrote: Even if it he would be 100% sure that it was a burglar, taking the decision to kill another person over having some stuff stolen, is completely beyond my understanding. Killing before even being sure who it is, is just sad.
Sorry but I do not value your life greater than household possessions. Break into my house and try to steal my shit and you will die If I have the power to do so.
Come into my home and try to steal my son's or wife's shit. I will murder you and piss on the gunshot wounds.
Actually just break into my home. you will be dead before you have a chance to see what I have to steal.
That's one fucked up mentality right there... mr macho man lol .
And those kind of people are allowed to own guns. Frightening.
On October 12 2012 15:11 Cascade wrote: Even if it he would be 100% sure that it was a burglar, taking the decision to kill another person over having some stuff stolen, is completely beyond my understanding. Killing before even being sure who it is, is just sad.
Sorry but I do not value your life greater than household possessions. Break into my house and try to steal my shit and you will die If I have the power to do so.
Come into my home and try to steal my son's or wife's shit. I will murder you and piss on the gunshot wounds.
Actually just break into my home. you will be dead before you have a chance to see what I have to steal.
That's one fucked up mentality right there... mr macho man lol .
And those kind of people are allowed to own guns. Frightening.
On October 12 2012 22:20 Nizaris wrote: It is ridiculous that you can even shoot some1 if your life isn't in any danger.
I think its ridiculous that you think you should be able to waltz into someones home without fear of getting hurt, but both of our views are just opinions. However, I think yours is the more wrong one here but posts like these contribute very little to what actually happened here...
gun related death in your country shows that you're wrong and i'm not.
Some1 robs you here and you kill him, you'll go to jail for murder as it should be. This isn't the Wild West anymore.
If someone robs you with a knife and proceeds to rape your family are you just going to stand there and watch? Good luck. Self-defense is self-defense. Whether you protecting yourself with a knife, a baseball bat, golf club or a gun.
btw to all those that say this only happened because there are guns and they should be banned are silly. To your logic, cars should also be banned because car crashes happen all too often. Many people die from car crashes all the time. And people drink and drive all the time so cars should definitely be restricted to use or banned from society.
I don't get waht's so hard to understand. Gun or not, the father in this situation made a mistake. A huge mistake. Yes, he should have identified the "thief" first before he shot him. I don't have the facts so I can't say anything for certain.
Just a thought, maybe he's just an adrenaline junkie and wanted to kill a break in thief so he can brag to his friends that he popped a robber. So that's the father's mistake. Not the issue of guns. Either way he could have knifed his son in the head. He's so silly in the first place he could have done anything to kill him.
On October 12 2012 22:20 Nizaris wrote: It is ridiculous that you can even shoot some1 if your life isn't in any danger.
I think its ridiculous that you think you should be able to waltz into someones home without fear of getting hurt, but both of our views are just opinions. However, I think yours is the more wrong one here but posts like these contribute very little to what actually happened here...
gun related death in your country shows that you're wrong and i'm not.
Some1 robs you here and you kill him, you'll go to jail for murder as it should be. This isn't the Wild West anymore.
If someone robs you with a knife and proceeds to rape your family are you just going to stand there and watch? Good luck. Self-defense is self-defense. Whether you protecting yourself with a knife, a baseball bat, golf club or a gun.
btw to all those that say this only happened because there are guns and they should be banned are silly. To your logic, cars should also be banned because car crashes happen all too often. Many people die from car crashes all the time. And people drink and drive all the time so cars should definitely be restricted to use or banned from society.
I don't get waht's so hard to understand. Gun or not, the father in this situation made a mistake. A huge mistake. Yes, he should have identified the "thief" first before he shot him. I don't have the facts so I can't say anything for certain.
Just a thought, maybe he's just an adrenaline junkie and wanted to kill a break in thief so he can brag to his friends that he popped a robber. So that's the father's mistake. Not the issue of guns. Either way he could have knifed his son in the head. He's so silly in the first place he could have done anything to kill him.
I agree that people overreact to any sort of accidental gun-related death, but the part about him being an adrenaline junky I'm not so sure about. I doubt many 77 year old men have the health to even consider being such.
On October 12 2012 22:20 Nizaris wrote: It is ridiculous that you can even shoot some1 if your life isn't in any danger.
I think its ridiculous that you think you should be able to waltz into someones home without fear of getting hurt, but both of our views are just opinions. However, I think yours is the more wrong one here but posts like these contribute very little to what actually happened here...
gun related death in your country shows that you're wrong and i'm not.
Some1 robs you here and you kill him, you'll go to jail for murder as it should be. This isn't the Wild West anymore.
If someone robs you with a knife and proceeds to rape your family are you just going to stand there and watch? Good luck. Self-defense is self-defense. Whether you protecting yourself with a knife, a baseball bat, golf club or a gun.
btw to all those that say this only happened because there are guns and they should be banned are silly. To your logic, cars should also be banned because car crashes happen all too often. Many people die from car crashes all the time. And people drink and drive all the time so cars should definitely be restricted to use or banned from society.
I don't get waht's so hard to understand. Gun or not, the father in this situation made a mistake. A huge mistake. Yes, he should have identified the "thief" first before he shot him. I don't have the facts so I can't say anything for certain.
Just a thought, maybe he's just an adrenaline junkie and wanted to kill a break in thief so he can brag to his friends that he popped a robber. So that's the father's mistake. Not the issue of guns. Either way he could have knifed his son in the head. He's so silly in the first place he could have done anything to kill him.
That wasn't even the case. Also even if he thought it was a burglar, he wasn't even armed. Killing force was excessive. For example, a flesh wound would have been sufficient, it would have been 1 trip to the ER and some hard feelings at the end of the accident, better than the guy's life. That is all people were arguing.
On October 12 2012 14:52 Mambo wrote: Because they are idiots and guns shouldn't be allowed for regular people. Written by a biased european.
From what i see it, they shoot to kill because they are afraid to identify first? I mean maybe they are afraid that the "intruder" also has a weapon and that they would get the first shot in if the father didnt use the element of surprise.
implying police don't shoot to kill, ask questions later on a regular basis
On October 12 2012 22:20 Nizaris wrote: It is ridiculous that you can even shoot some1 if your life isn't in any danger.
I think its ridiculous that you think you should be able to waltz into someones home without fear of getting hurt, but both of our views are just opinions. However, I think yours is the more wrong one here but posts like these contribute very little to what actually happened here...
gun related death in your country shows that you're wrong and i'm not.
Some1 robs you here and you kill him, you'll go to jail for murder as it should be. This isn't the Wild West anymore.
If someone robs you with a knife and proceeds to rape your family are you just going to stand there and watch? Good luck. Self-defense is self-defense. Whether you protecting yourself with a knife, a baseball bat, golf club or a gun.
btw to all those that say this only happened because there are guns and they should be banned are silly. To your logic, cars should also be banned because car crashes happen all too often. Many people die from car crashes all the time. And people drink and drive all the time so cars should definitely be restricted to use or banned from society.
I don't get waht's so hard to understand. Gun or not, the father in this situation made a mistake. A huge mistake. Yes, he should have identified the "thief" first before he shot him. I don't have the facts so I can't say anything for certain.
Just a thought, maybe he's just an adrenaline junkie and wanted to kill a break in thief so he can brag to his friends that he popped a robber. So that's the father's mistake. Not the issue of guns. Either way he could have knifed his son in the head. He's so silly in the first place he could have done anything to kill him.
Knifing your own son sounds extremely legit. In the head too.
On October 12 2012 22:20 Nizaris wrote: It is ridiculous that you can even shoot some1 if your life isn't in any danger.
I think its ridiculous that you think you should be able to waltz into someones home without fear of getting hurt, but both of our views are just opinions. However, I think yours is the more wrong one here but posts like these contribute very little to what actually happened here...
gun related death in your country shows that you're wrong and i'm not.
Some1 robs you here and you kill him, you'll go to jail for murder as it should be. This isn't the Wild West anymore.
If someone robs you with a knife and proceeds to rape your family are you just going to stand there and watch? Good luck. Self-defense is self-defense. Whether you protecting yourself with a knife, a baseball bat, golf club or a gun.
In most cases you will have to make a decision well before you know how the situation would develop. So you will shoot the petty thief as well the rapist. Or if you're unlucky the cop serving a no-knock warrant. Or your daughter's new boyfriend.
The problem with guns (and the idea of going for a kill every time) is uncertainty. You will fire at innocent people sometimes. Either because you made a mistake or they did.
On October 12 2012 15:11 Cascade wrote: Even if it he would be 100% sure that it was a burglar, taking the decision to kill another person over having some stuff stolen, is completely beyond my understanding. Killing before even being sure who it is, is just sad.
Sorry but I do not value your life greater than household possessions. Break into my house and try to steal my shit and you will die If I have the power to do so.
Come into my home and try to steal my son's or wife's shit. I will murder you and piss on the gunshot wounds.
Actually just break into my home. you will be dead before you have a chance to see what I have to steal.
That's one fucked up mentality right there... mr macho man lol .
And those kind of people are allowed to own guns. Frightening.
On October 12 2012 22:20 Nizaris wrote: It is ridiculous that you can even shoot some1 if your life isn't in any danger.
I think its ridiculous that you think you should be able to waltz into someones home without fear of getting hurt, but both of our views are just opinions. However, I think yours is the more wrong one here but posts like these contribute very little to what actually happened here...
gun related death in your country shows that you're wrong and i'm not.
Some1 robs you here and you kill him, you'll go to jail for murder as it should be. This isn't the Wild West anymore.
If someone robs you with a knife and proceeds to rape your family are you just going to stand there and watch? Good luck. Self-defense is self-defense. Whether you protecting yourself with a knife, a baseball bat, golf club or a gun.
btw to all those that say this only happened because there are guns and they should be banned are silly. To your logic, cars should also be banned because car crashes happen all too often. Many people die from car crashes all the time. And people drink and drive all the time so cars should definitely be restricted to use or banned from society.
I don't get waht's so hard to understand. Gun or not, the father in this situation made a mistake. A huge mistake. Yes, he should have identified the "thief" first before he shot him. I don't have the facts so I can't say anything for certain.
Just a thought, maybe he's just an adrenaline junkie and wanted to kill a break in thief so he can brag to his friends that he popped a robber. So that's the father's mistake. Not the issue of guns. Either way he could have knifed his son in the head. He's so silly in the first place he could have done anything to kill him.
You cannot compare a car to a gun. A car's primary goal is transportation and for most people (target/disk sport shooters the exception) a gun's primary goal is to kill. Now don't get me wrong though, I'm not a person who feels strongly about the subject and I think the US has already gotten to a point where a reverse of the current situation would be impossible, but I do feel regulation can be much stricter.
Ex cops for example should never find themselves in an environment where they need a gun. Bad guys trying to get revenge is something that can be pretty scary though I admit, but cops are trained making a gun far more effective than in the hands of an amateur.
EPT
But yeah you are probably right. 
