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On October 12 2012 15:11 Cascade wrote:Even if it he would be 100% sure that it was a burglar, taking the decision to kill another person over having some stuff stolen, is completely beyond my understanding. Killing before even being sure who it is, is just sad. 
pretty much my thoughts exactly. people's willingness to take a life with minimal cause/justification is depressing to me.
On October 13 2012 02:25 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 02:06 Dienosore wrote:
The gun is only a tool for the murderer.
Obviously, this father had some serious mental issues that pushed him over the edge like this.
It is unfortunate. I think its unfortunate that you just believe things based off your feelings. How do you know if he had serious mental issues or not? Unless I missed it in the article or something, you should try not talking out of your ass.
if you're willing to shoot a complete stranger, even one in your house, without either warning him or asking questions first, then you definitely have serious mental issues. and its quite obvious he didn't even give the "burglar" a second to stop or say a single word - if he did he would have probably recognized his son's voice and therefore not shot him.
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On October 13 2012 05:30 guN-viCe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 23:38 Nizaris wrote:On October 12 2012 22:30 CaptainCrush wrote:On October 12 2012 22:20 Nizaris wrote:
It is ridiculous that you can even shoot some1 if your life isn't in any danger. I think its ridiculous that you think you should be able to waltz into someones home without fear of getting hurt, but both of our views are just opinions. However, I think yours is the more wrong one here but posts like these contribute very little to what actually happened here... gun related death in your country shows that you're wrong and i'm not. Some1 robs you here and you kill him, you'll go to jail for murder as it should be. This isn't the Wild West anymore. "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6". This isn't the wild west, it's real life. Some people who rob you will also injure/rape/kill you/your family. You think they care about you?
Unless you're in a really shitty neighborhood, isn't owning a gun way more likely to end up causing harm to you and your family (like this father killing his son, or people pulling a gun on a robber who will then end up pulling a gun too and shoot back because the situation changed to kill or be killed, when he otherwise would have just fled), instead of actually protecting you and your family from murderers and rapists? Are there any statistics on that?
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"Well, why did the cop, and the teacher have a gun? And why is it their first instinct to shoot first?"
Really? you're gonna call owning a gun into question? HE IS A FORMER COP, of course he will own a gun...
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On October 13 2012 06:42 Matoo- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 05:30 guN-viCe wrote:On October 12 2012 23:38 Nizaris wrote:On October 12 2012 22:30 CaptainCrush wrote:On October 12 2012 22:20 Nizaris wrote:
It is ridiculous that you can even shoot some1 if your life isn't in any danger. I think its ridiculous that you think you should be able to waltz into someones home without fear of getting hurt, but both of our views are just opinions. However, I think yours is the more wrong one here but posts like these contribute very little to what actually happened here... gun related death in your country shows that you're wrong and i'm not. Some1 robs you here and you kill him, you'll go to jail for murder as it should be. This isn't the Wild West anymore. "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6". This isn't the wild west, it's real life. Some people who rob you will also injure/rape/kill you/your family. You think they care about you? Unless you're in a really shitty neighborhood, isn't owning a gun way more likely to end up causing harm to you and your family (like this father killing his son, or people pulling a gun on a robber who will then end up pulling a gun too and shoot back because the situation changed to kill or be killed, when he otherwise would have just fled), instead of actually protecting you and your family from murderers and rapists? Are there any statistics on that?
I doubt a robber who has a gun on him will flee from the scene... Why would he have a gun in the first place?
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On October 13 2012 07:09 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 06:42 Matoo- wrote:On October 13 2012 05:30 guN-viCe wrote:On October 12 2012 23:38 Nizaris wrote:On October 12 2012 22:30 CaptainCrush wrote:On October 12 2012 22:20 Nizaris wrote:
It is ridiculous that you can even shoot some1 if your life isn't in any danger. I think its ridiculous that you think you should be able to waltz into someones home without fear of getting hurt, but both of our views are just opinions. However, I think yours is the more wrong one here but posts like these contribute very little to what actually happened here... gun related death in your country shows that you're wrong and i'm not. Some1 robs you here and you kill him, you'll go to jail for murder as it should be. This isn't the Wild West anymore. "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6". This isn't the wild west, it's real life. Some people who rob you will also injure/rape/kill you/your family. You think they care about you? Unless you're in a really shitty neighborhood, isn't owning a gun way more likely to end up causing harm to you and your family (like this father killing his son, or people pulling a gun on a robber who will then end up pulling a gun too and shoot back because the situation changed to kill or be killed, when he otherwise would have just fled), instead of actually protecting you and your family from murderers and rapists? Are there any statistics on that? I doubt a robber who has a gun on him will flee from the scene... Why would he have a gun in the first place?
Because he knows the other guy has a gun aswell.
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On October 13 2012 02:25 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 02:06 Dienosore wrote:
The gun is only a tool for the murderer.
Obviously, this father had some serious mental issues that pushed him over the edge like this.
It is unfortunate. I think its unfortunate that you just believe things based off your feelings. How do you know if he had serious mental issues or not? Unless I missed it in the article or something, you should try not talking out of your ass.
Something must be seriously wrong if he shoots his own son point blank in the head. It's not what I personally consider normal behaviour, but that's just my opinion.
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On October 12 2012 14:54 epicanthic wrote:
Self-defense is one thing, but this is something else entirely.
I guess accidents don't exist.
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On October 13 2012 06:42 Matoo- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 05:30 guN-viCe wrote:On October 12 2012 23:38 Nizaris wrote:On October 12 2012 22:30 CaptainCrush wrote:On October 12 2012 22:20 Nizaris wrote:
It is ridiculous that you can even shoot some1 if your life isn't in any danger. I think its ridiculous that you think you should be able to waltz into someones home without fear of getting hurt, but both of our views are just opinions. However, I think yours is the more wrong one here but posts like these contribute very little to what actually happened here... gun related death in your country shows that you're wrong and i'm not. Some1 robs you here and you kill him, you'll go to jail for murder as it should be. This isn't the Wild West anymore. "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6". This isn't the wild west, it's real life. Some people who rob you will also injure/rape/kill you/your family. You think they care about you? Unless you're in a really shitty neighborhood, isn't owning a gun way more likely to end up causing harm to you and your family (like this father killing his son, or people pulling a gun on a robber who will then end up pulling a gun too and shoot back because the situation changed to kill or be killed, when he otherwise would have just fled), instead of actually protecting you and your family from murderers and rapists? Are there any statistics on that?
You know robbers come to good neighborhoods right? That's where all the goods are at.
EDIT: my bad for double post
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On October 12 2012 15:03 Mowr wrote:
No surprise really, family members are the ones who get shot when you have guns in the home to protect from burglars.
Yeah I am of the same opinion and I do believe it has been proven in studies? That said I wouldn't really mind having a gun myself if I lived in a rough place.
But shooting an unidentified person? That seems crazy to me. What if the girl next door is sleep walking, or as in this case it's your son coming home. It's so stupid it brings my thoughts to darwinism and to why I believe in that.
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On October 12 2012 14:54 epicanthic wrote:
Is it legal in the US to shoot trespassers on sight? Self-defense is one thing, but this is something else entirely.
Absolutely not. Even if it was a regular bugler he would have been in huge shit for killing the guy.
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On October 12 2012 15:12 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 15:10 DigiGnar wrote:
There was something in Houston today. (thursday) A cop shot dead a guy that "was charging" at him yet the guy was like six feet away with no weapons. A lot of people are pissed, albeit what got the cops called on him in the first place. (usual fight with father, molested his step-son or something)
Also, if you create more laws, it's just more time in jail. Laws do not prevent, just discourages. Nope. Europe has "proved" it. Prohibition works when it comes to guns, because guns aren't easy to make like alcohol or weed.
Canada also proves it.
Been to detroit, first day on vacation there gunshots right outside my hotel room. And that is in the nice part of the city, highest murder rate in all of North America. 500 feet away in Windsor, safest place in the land. Reason being, no guns.
And it is not just that example, it is the same across the ENTIRE USA CANADA BORDER for EVERY city. It is really just fucking sad that so many people are in support of gun freedom when it causes a lot more deaths than it saves every day. You just do not see violence in major Canadian cities. But the second you take a trip to the USA you just get the aura that someone is going to shoot you randomly.
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This kind of thing makes me lean towards disallowing gun ownership. Accidents like this are just ridiculous. Beyond that, though...using deadly force to stop a potential burglar no questions asked? That's not a right we should have. That's just dumb.
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"Less deaths" isn't reason enough to prohibit guns. Many americans want to be in charge of their own life as much as possible. They don't want to wait passively, hoping that the intruder isn't a murderer/rapist or that the police will be quick enough. They want to take the matter into their own hands and defend their home actively. I completely respect that. It's an emotion-based reasoning and statistics might show that they will end up doing more harm than good to themselves, but ideas matter and you can't always enslave ideas and freedom to safety statistics.
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On October 12 2012 15:08 CTSChao wrote:
As an American, I personally believe that personal possession of firearms should be outlawed in our country. Yet many ignorant and conspiracy theorists claim that if we don't keep guns, then there no way" to overthrow the government". That is an actual quote from a conversation that i had 2 weeks ago with a friend. Its propoganda like this from organizations such as the National Rifle Association taht make people believe that we actually need protection from the government. The last time Congress issued a moratorium on gun sales was around 2000 i believe, and was passed by a Democratic congress. After loosing their majority in the next election, they concluded that passing another bill would be political suicide. Until we get people to change their minds and for congressmen and women to stand up for whats right, not for what will get them reelected, will tragic events like these be prevented
Even if every single US citizen had a gun, they still wouldn't be able to stop the government in doing whatever they wanted.
It's really sad to hear and I really hope that one day the US will be able to kick their greediness for the sake of their own people.. guns don't protect anything, they kill things.
That's all.
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On October 13 2012 18:20 PH wrote:
This kind of thing makes me lean towards disallowing gun ownership. Accidents like this are just ridiculous. Beyond that, though...using deadly force to stop a potential burglar no questions asked? That's not a right we should have. That's just dumb.
How do you know they are just going to steal from you?
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To those that are genuinely prepared to continue to reasonably explain (especially over the internet) why an alternative to having such easy access to firearms for everyday citizens can be viable, I salute you. I envy your patience.
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I honestly don't understand why threads that cover this topic are allowed on these forums.
All they ever turn into are gun control debates, with comment like "gun ownership should be outlawed because of this".
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How can people ( mostly Europeans ) blame gun control when they see all these clearly sensationalized stories. Gun control works for you great, it'll do next to nothing in U.S. Its the mentality and geography, U.S. is a very ethnically and culturally diverse country, and whether you like it or not that will always create tensions and violence. Geographically speaking how easy is it to smuggle guns to country like Denmark? Now think how easy it would be for criminals to get guns in the U.S. should they be banned. Our border with Mexico has plenty of tunnels already or if you dont like underground and prefer a more scenic route just take a boat from one of our Caribbean neighbors.
Ban the guns in U.S. and only criminals will have guns. Take a country like Denmark and move it next to a couple third world countries mix in some other cultures and ethnicities and see if gun control would still produce the same results.
Once again its the mentality and geography not the guns, that's why a country like Switzerland with no gun control has similar crime stats to other European countries, and a country like Russia with strict gun control laws has similar crime stats to U.S.
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I'm sorry, but the son's death is on his own head.
Seriously. What happened to "Mom, Dad, I'm home!"
Back when my mother worked for an American organisation. They always always always drill that into their children. To call out when they enter the house.
This tragedy would have been avoided with proper upbringing.
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EPT
