EPTShootings in the US - Page 9
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Headshothank
Canada11 Posts
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adaptive
United States16 Posts
Crazies and kids get their hands on guns because of neglect or stupidity of other people. It has nothing to do with lax gun laws. Guns aren't the problem. Stupid people are the problem. Stupid people exist all over the world, but foreigners LOVE the stereotype of the stupid, fat American. It also doesn't help that our media is the most internationally pervasive of anywhere else, so that helps to drive the belief that we are somehow worse than the rest of the world. | ||
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Thenerf
United States258 Posts
On August 29 2012 02:13 adaptive wrote: Personally I'm sick of people that DON'T live in the U.S. talking about shit they don't understand. Foreigners seem to think it's like the wild west over here, everyone carrying double revolvers on their hips, like you can just stroll in to any gun store, pick out a piece and some ammunition and walk out the door with it. Crazies and kids get their hands on guns because of neglect or stupidity of other people. It has nothing to do with lax gun laws. Guns aren't the problem. Stupid people are the problem. Stupid people exist all over the world, but foreigners LOVE the stereotype of the stupid, fat American. It also doesn't help that our media is the most internationally pervasive of anywhere else, so that helps to drive the belief that we are somehow worse than the rest of the world. DON'T LISTEN TO THIS GUY, IF YOU COME TO MY COUNTRY I WILL DRAW OUT MY SIX SHOOTERS AND TAKE YOU DOWN. Not all stereotypes are bad  | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
On August 29 2012 02:13 adaptive wrote: Personally I'm sick of people that DON'T live in the U.S. talking about shit they don't understand. Foreigners seem to think it's like the wild west over here, everyone carrying double revolvers on their hips, like you can just stroll in to any gun store, pick out a piece and some ammunition and walk out the door with it. Crazies and kids get their hands on guns because of neglect or stupidity of other people. It has nothing to do with lax gun laws. Guns aren't the problem. Stupid people are the problem. Stupid people exist all over the world, but foreigners LOVE the stereotype of the stupid, fat American. It also doesn't help that our media is the most internationally pervasive of anywhere else, so that helps to drive the belief that we are somehow worse than the rest of the world. During gun show season, which in many parts of the country is 365 days a year, it really is as easy as strolling in, choosing some choice ammunition and a good sale piece, paying, and walking out. A friend of mine from high school bought his first handgun at a gun show at the age of 15. | ||
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adaptive
United States16 Posts
On August 29 2012 02:17 farvacola wrote: During gun show season, which in many parts of the country is 365 days a year, it really is as easy as strolling in, choosing some choice ammunition and a good sale piece, paying, and walking out. A friend of mine from high school bought his first handgun at a gun show at the age of 15. Which is illegal, back to neglect and stupidity. Thanks for proving my point. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
On August 29 2012 02:20 adaptive wrote: Which is illegal, back to neglect and stupidity. Thanks for proving my point. Illegal and incredibly under-enforced=ineffective, overly lax gun laws. Thanks for proving my point. | ||
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adaptive
United States16 Posts
On August 29 2012 02:22 farvacola wrote: Illegal and incredibly under-enforced=ineffective, overly lax gun laws. Thanks for proving my point. I have a really hard time believing you're even telling the truth about that story. All gun dealers at shows must carry federal firearms license. Without proper documentation of the sale (which couldn't possibly exist because it's illegal to sell a handgun to anyone under 21 years old) the gun dealer could get in SERIOUS trouble. Years of jailtime. So your point really has no legs to stand on. Just because some people break the law doesn't make it the norm. | ||
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
On August 29 2012 02:20 adaptive wrote: Which is illegal, back to neglect and stupidity. Thanks for proving my point. Depends, minors are not explicitly prohibited from buying any guns in the US. Many states have stricter restrictions than federal but you have no idea if it was actually illegal or not. "There is no federal law concerning minimum age for the transfer or sale of a firearm that is not defined as a handgun, such as rifles, semiautomatic rifles, short-barreled rifles, shotguns, short-barreled shotgun, machineguns, etc., for transactions that don't involve federal firearms licensees" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_the_United_States#Acquiring_from_dealers So.. yeah, those laws might be a little lax. @ above poster: You can purchase firearms from individuals who happen to be at a gunshow that aren't registered dealers. The gun laws are very, very, lax and there's more wiggle room than a lot of people seem to think. Edit2: Nevermind, my post is full of wrong because he said a handgun was purchased, which is illegal. | ||
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Shai
Canada806 Posts
By the way, the irony of an American saying "Personally I'm sick of people that DON'T live in the U.S. talking about shit they don't understand" is not funny, it's painful. Tell that to every country you've invaded. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
On August 29 2012 02:26 adaptive wrote: I have a really hard time believing you're even telling the truth about that story. All gun dealers at shows must carry federal firearms license. Without proper documentation of the sale (which couldn't possibly exist because it's illegal to sell a handgun to anyone under 21 years old) the gun dealer could get in SERIOUS trouble. Years of jailtime. So your point really has no legs to stand on. Just because some people break the law doesn't make it the norm. In October 2009, the City of New York released “Gun Show Undercover: Report on Illegal Sales at Gun Shows.”[26] The report details undercover investigations that took place at gun shows in three states—Tennessee, Nevada, and Ohio—between May and August 2009. Private investigators were hired by the Office of NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg to perform sting operations on federally licensed firearm dealers and unlicensed private sellers at 14 different shows in these states. Private investigators posing as purchasers approached 33 unlicensed sellers and told them that they “probably couldn’t pass a background check.” 22 (or 67%) of the private sellers sold a gun to them anyway. Additionally, 17 federally licensed dealers at the shows were approached by investigators who simulated a “straw purchase.” In a straw purchase, a prohibited purchaser recruits an individual with a clean criminal record to fill out paperwork, pass the background check, and purchase firearms for him/her. All but one licensed dealer sold investigators a gun in this manner, again despite the fact that it constituted a clear violation of federal law. These illegal transactions were videotaped by investigators.[27] Source Keep in mind that there is a great deal of conflicting evidence, with many studies suggesting that gun shows are not a common source for illegal firearm diversion. However, the variance in results suggests that gun shows are indeed an important aspect of the US's illegal firearm problem. | ||
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adaptive
United States16 Posts
On August 29 2012 02:29 TheFrankOne wrote: Depends, minors are not explicitly prohibited from buying any guns in the US. Many states have stricter restrictions than federal but you have no idea if it was actually illegal or not. "There is no federal law concerning minimum age for the transfer or sale of a firearm that is not defined as a handgun, such as rifles, semiautomatic rifles, short-barreled rifles, shotguns, short-barreled shotgun, machineguns, etc., for transactions that don't involve federal firearms licensees" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_the_United_States#Acquiring_from_dealers So.. yeah, those laws might be a little lax. @ above poster: You can purchase firearms from individuals who happen to be at a gunshow that aren't registered dealers. The gun laws are very, very, lax and there's more wiggle room than a lot of people seem to think. Wikipedia master... Please pay attention to the heading "SALE BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS" This has nothing to do with gun shows and the LEGAL purchase of firearms. Even if it were illegal to make a private transaction between individuals it would be impossible to enforce. Please do your research before you start quoting shit from a paragraph on Wikipedia. | ||
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adaptive
United States16 Posts
On August 29 2012 02:29 Shai wrote: If guns were more restricted, there would be fewer firearms for people to illegally get. How is this not obvious? There is a direct relationship between gun laws and gun accessibility, either through legitimate or illigitimate means. By the way, the irony of an American saying "Personally I'm sick of people that DON'T live in the U.S. talking about shit they don't understand" is not funny, it's painful. Tell that to every country you've invaded. I have never invaded any countries, thank you for your entertaining comment though. | ||
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therockmanxx
Peru1174 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On August 29 2012 01:25 HellRoxYa wrote: Why don't you have a read over here. "But I didn't bring up Nazi Germany!" So then every 'tyranny' in history hasn't disarmed its civilians then. Furthermore unless you actually get the army on your side you're fucked either way, guns or not. I never said guns prevent tyranny, I said they allow you to fight back once it starts, which is in fact a concession this article makes. I readily admit civilians, no matter how well armed, would ever be able to win a conventional war against the US military; but that's why they wouldn't even try it. They'd fight a guerrilla war. It worked for the Afghani's against the Russians, it worked for the Viet Cong, the Polish were fairly successful against both the Nazis and the Soviets, and the insurgency in Iraq has been fairly effective against the Coalition. Now remember, none of those guerrilla movements could even threaten significant targets; but guerrillas in the US could threaten every factory, oil refinery, harbor, airfield, highway, radiotower, bridge, canal, and railyard in the country. No army on Earth could possibly protect all that. I'd go so far as to say the guerrillas can't lose. Victory might take a long time, but I think its assured. | ||
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adaptive
United States16 Posts
Whether or not it's the gun laws (it's not) people would still have access to firearms illegally. Even in European countries with the toughest gun laws ever conceived, people that want to do bad things will find a way to get a gun. It just so happens that we have a shitty culture that breeds psychopaths. We aren't the only country that has murderous loons, we just have a lot of them and the media power to reach the entire world. I'm not saying the US is better than anywhere else in the world, just asking that you stop pretending EU is any better. For better or worse every country in the world has its own strengths and weaknesses. | ||
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My.Row
Germany24 Posts
Chicago: 16 murders per 100k inhabitants. L.A.: 7,5 murders per 100k inhabitants. Berlin: 3,5 murders per 100k inhabitants. All numbers from 2009/2010. My last post in this thread: (...and I´m sorry for my bad english!) I know those numbers are not new and I know they are populist. There are probably a couple of cities somewhere in the world that have an even higher murder-ratio (Mexico-City?). It still shows best what I wanted to say earlier in this thread. I know, most Americans are proud of their constitution - and they should be. They should also be proud of their country. But don´t be surprised or even shocked when there is another shooting in one of your cities. It shows an annoying double-morality when most Americans are still demanding their right to wear a gun on the one hand, and are still shocked about how it was possible that a random dude killed a dozen of people on the other hand. Sure, we also have some trouble with shootings in Germany too (a lot of family-dramas recently). But the frequency of those doings is way less than in the US. And in my oppinion the difference between "our" gun-law and the US-gun-law is the difference. I know, I don´t live in the US, so in the eyes of some Americans here I don´t have the right to talk about this topic. Sorry, my fault that I still do it. @adaptive: I´m not saying EU is "any better". In general I even consider it to be worse than the US. But in terms of gun-laws: Yes, we are "better" - sorry to say that PS: To all Americans in this thread - don´t get me wrong! I´m not the stereotype-using-dumbass-German. I actually am one of those europeans who like your country and I think that you - as a country - have evolved rapidly to a more positiv side since Barrack is your president. Yes, you are a beautiful country, America. But like every other country in the world, you have a couple of mistakes. And in my eyes the Second Amendment is one of your biggest. | ||
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
On August 29 2012 02:33 adaptive wrote: Wikipedia master... Please pay attention to the heading "SALE BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS" This has nothing to do with gun shows and the LEGAL purchase of firearms. Even if it were illegal to make a private transaction between individuals it would be impossible to enforce. Please do your research before you start quoting shit from a paragraph on Wikipedia. Yeah, sales between individuals, like the guy who only has a couple guns to sell at a gunshow but does not do it as his primary business. From a source arguing that gun laws are just fine. "Individuals who occasionally sell or trade guns from their personal collection need not be licensed nor are they required to conduct a NICS check prior to the sale - whether the sale occurs at a gun show, at their home or out of the trunk of their car. Congress never intended a person who wants to sell a spare hunting rifle to a friend, a father who wishes to give a .22 rifle to his son or a widow who wishes to dispose of her late husband's firearms through an Internet auction or an ad in the local paper to undertake a NICS background check." http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba349 I was wrong because handguns fall under different laws and didn't notice the claim was over a handgun. You insulted me and did none of your own research, good job buddy! Look at that, we're both wrong! @adaptive: If its so easy to get illegal things, I could really use some help getting ahold of just a few grams of heroin since I have no idea how to get any beyond walking into a ghetto and waving money at anyone who looks like a drug dealer. I also have some script requests from friends I'm sure you could fill since something being illegal has no impact on how hard it is to get or the total supply. http://www.ceskapozice.cz/en/news/society/oslo-killer-sought-weapons-prague’s-underworld I'm sure you can do better than Breivik could! | ||
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vol_
Australia1608 Posts
"It's horrible," said Roman. "I mean, you would think the school would have better security than this, maybe metal detectors." Makes me sad that people are forced to think like this. You would think a school shouldn't need them like in most civilized places. | ||
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Agnosthar
631 Posts
On August 29 2012 02:13 adaptive wrote: Personally I'm sick of people that DON'T live in the U.S. talking about shit they don't understand. Foreigners seem to think it's like the wild west over here, everyone carrying double revolvers on their hips, like you can just stroll in to any gun store, pick out a piece and some ammunition and walk out the door with it. Crazies and kids get their hands on guns because of neglect or stupidity of other people. It has nothing to do with lax gun laws. Guns aren't the problem. Stupid people are the problem. Stupid people exist all over the world, but foreigners LOVE the stereotype of the stupid, fat American. It also doesn't help that our media is the most internationally pervasive of anywhere else, so that helps to drive the belief that we are somehow worse than the rest of the world. I think you're missing the point people are trying to make. Stupid people do exist all over the world, correct. However when stupid people go on a rampage in a country like the US, they have the tools to do way more damage than elsewhere. No system is perfect, somewhere, sometime, a person who shouldn't be allowed to get their hands on a gun will do so. Typically they'll do way more harm than they would in a country which doesn't allow firearms. I can't pretend I understand why so many Americans are this passionate about having the right to own a gun. In this day and age it just seems so antiquated. | ||
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Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On August 29 2012 07:09 Agnosthar wrote: I think you're missing the point people are trying to make. Stupid people do exist all over the world, correct. However when stupid people go on a rampage in a country like the US, they have the tools to do way more damage than elsewhere. No system is perfect, somewhere, sometime, a person who shouldn't be allowed to get their hands on a gun will do so. Typically they'll do way more harm than they would in a country which doesn't allow firearms. I can't pretend I understand why so many Americans are this passionate about having the right to own a gun. In this day and age it just seems so antiquated. But simply owning a gun doesn't hurt anyone. Shooting people is the problem, not owning guns. We don't ban alcohol because some people get drunk and hurt themselves or others, because its not the alcohol that's the problem, is the violence itself that is the problem. "My right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." - Oliver Holmes I can swing my fist all I want, but it is not within my rights to hit someone else with it. Well what about gun ownership hurts anyone? Is my rifle hurting people right now? No? Then what's the problem? | ||
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