EPTWhy i find this thread disguesting and verry bad taste i can not realy explain well.
Its just a feeling, it just does not feel right to discuss this "for fun" and in a psuedo philosophic way.
specially not by males only
What is Rape? - Page 46
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
Why i find this thread disguesting and verry bad taste i can not realy explain well. Its just a feeling, it just does not feel right to discuss this "for fun" and in a psuedo philosophic way. specially not by males only | ||
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:15 Rassy wrote: This thread, where 99% males discuss the legal definition of rape, is the most disgusting thread i have seen on this forum so far. Why? | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:15 Rassy wrote: This thread, where 99% males discuss the legal definition of rape, is the most disgusting thread i have seen on this forum so far. What's disgusting is your post seems to imply that male rape doesn't exist when in a ridiculous percentage of men in prison get raped on a daily basis. | ||
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:17 Djzapz wrote: What's disgusting is your post seems to imply that male rape doesn't exist when in a ridiculous percentage of men in prison get fucked on a daily basis. To be fair to him, that problem does not exist in most of Europe. In the western world it seems to be primarily an American issue. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:18 Crushinator wrote: To be fair to him, that problem does not exist in most of Europe. In the western world it seems to be primarily an American issue. I'd be surprised if it didn't exist at all, I figure it happens, but true. Edit: But undoubtedly men still get raped outside of prison in Europe too. I still don't understand why men wouldn't be allowed to try to define "rape" anyway. Let alone the fact that he thinks it's disgusting. It's hardly an issue external to us, and even if it was, why wouldn't we discuss social issues of which we're not ourselves direct victims? My friend takes a class on Japan's political system, maybe I should tell him he disgusts me and the Japanese are the only people who should be concerned with their political system. I don't get it. | ||
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:23 Djzapz wrote: I'd be surprised if it didn't exist at all, I figure it happens, but true. I still don't understand why men wouldn't be allowed to try to define "rape" anyway. Let alone the fact that he thinks it's disgusting. It's hardly an issue external to us, and even if it was, why wouldn't we discuss social issues of which we're not ourselves direct victims? My friend takes a class on Japan's political system, maybe I should tell him he disgusts me and the Japanese are the only people who should be concerned with their political system. I don't get it. If anything its more important for men to get the definition right, I would think. Bad things would happen if they didn't. | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
edited my prev post btw to try explain why i find this thread absolutely disgusting. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:26 Rassy wrote: This thread isnt about prison rape obviously. It's about rape, which includes, well, RAPE. | ||
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Loisl
21 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:15 Rassy wrote: Stupid thread. Why i find this thread disguesting and verry bad taste i can not realy explain well. Its just a feeling, it just does not feel right to discuss this "for fun" and in a psuedo phylosophic way. specially not by males only Stop calling things stupid if you completly fail to explain why they are stupid. A topic of major importance to society is being discussed here. If you have a bad feeling discussing that specific topic.... well, then dont. But dont say this is stupid and disgusting when people are just exchanging their opinions. Prison rape is maybe happening more often in the US - I dont know that - but it definitely is a big problem in a lot of other western countries, too. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
The problem is that the things women are blamed for in rape isn't something that can be reasonably expected of a free individual. Telling me to not leave my phone in my car has no negative effect on me. Telling me not to wear certain types of clothing has a fairly big negative effect and has a severe impact on my personal freedoms. There is also a large difference in the allowable things for each gender to do. I, as a man, am allowed to wear whatever I want out and flirt with as many girls as I like but women are not afforded the same freedom and are blamed if they do the same and are raped. Blame (more precisely, the concept of culpa from Roman law) is a concept independent of positive obligations. It possesses a wider connotation than dolus malus, which is a positive intent to commit an evil act. Culpa belongs also to those which, acting within the letter of the law, may commit acts of omission or commission which lead to states like neglegence. To put this in a common-sensical perspective: the exercise of freedom is not liberation from blame. Indeed, the potentiality of blame is implicit in "freedom." Exercise of "personal freedoms" is anyway, a bad grammatical abstraction. In reality no one commits acts of "personal freedom," but always acts of diverse moral qualities within the sphere of "personal freedom." In my eyes asking women to do this is not acceptable in the slightest. Then why the constant emphasis on hypothetical situations in which a woman is supposedly to blame? I cannot figure out the motive. I think my first post points out the complaint with the rest of the post. However, in this particular, I will only say this: the conditional IF-THEN statement is here broken, because the subject of the premise doesn't match its implication: If in my eyes Ronald McDonald is a frightening aspect, then why the constant emphasis on inviting him for birthday parties? I cannot figure out the motive. The irony is the motive is here more implicit in the condition than it is in the conclusion: why I am afraid of Ronald McDonald is a far more complicated matter than why he is invited for birthday parties. *Hint Hint* Women can flirt and dress how they want in my view, the only sensible precautions that I would advocate above and beyond that are all relating to alcohol: Minding drinks, keeping friends close by and the likes. They can also drink, keep friends and so forth as they want in your view probably as well. It's a distinction without a difference, in my mind. And I do not see why drinking and keeping friends is on one side of precaution, while behaviour and attire are on the other. I think the most intuitive part of your post is talking about sensible precaution. Certainly there is a sensible way to go about drinking and walking at night, just as there are sensible limitations in your behaviour and attire. The adjective sensible does not apply to a black-and-white scheme of different kinds of actions. It simply refers to prudence within all kinds of actions, and I do not know why you bother to distinguish them here, unless you think that flirting and the way a person dresses are conditionals completely irrelevant to the subject at hand. Using my car rather than staying at home increases my chances of being killed by a bad driver, but let's not put any fault on me if it happens. Sometimes you have to live life and it comes with hazards. An incomplete comparison. In one case, you are talking about culpability in the case of accidental negligence in face of an intentional crime. In the other case, you are a subject in an accident where the other party committed accidental negligence, or something in the same category of behaviour. If anything, if anything, the woman going down the route of risky behaviour on party night is more comparable to the bad driver who decided to chance his fortunes on the road. Statistically, you would be more likely to get raped if a friend or acquintance walks you home. I would bet the scenario you described is only a very small part of all rapes. No it isn't. In the sources given in this very thread, the statistics, (if you consider that as good evidence, which I do not) the incidence rate of being raped by friends/acquaintances to being raped by strangers is approximately five to two. Now, setting aside the improbable assumption that rapes taking place after girls' night out are a representative sample which perfectly reflects the total ratio, there must also be the assumption that women have a fifty percent chance of walking home with a stranger when they decide to go home escorted on any given night. Since this is not true, and the truth is probably girls go home with acquaintances and friends far more often than with strangers, that statement isn't very reasonable. P.S. Not to mention, all the women I've ever talked to always appreciate it when I tell them to "take care getting home", or "bundle up warmly, it's cold outside." These are really obtuse and silly statements, but their helpfulness isn't what matters. That isn't rape culture, it's the fact that criminals, of any sort, are more likely to prey on targets that are attractive or lucrative, more vulnerable due to alcohol consumption, and alone. Of any sort? Are you denying that much of what qualifies as rape comes under the category of crimes of passion? I know it is habitual to objectify (I hope mcc will confirm that I've used this verb correctly) the rapist, but rape occurs under a myriad of ethical, emotional and intellectual motivations. The argument that how a woman dresses is a factor her chance of getting raped is bloody retarded! Come now, everything is a factor, unless you are claiming that aesthetics are completely irrelevant to sexual desire. The matter with the statement is not whether it's a factor or not, but whether it is over- or understated as a factor. Some people think that the clothes make the man, and some people think it's the size of his sausage collection. I'm saying that making yourself vulnerable to attack isn't restricted to rape, and in all other crimes people take precautions to mitigate those chances. There is a distinct minority of people who go around, and consciously take measures to maximise those chances. And I am not only talking about sting operations or vigilantes either. A general rule of thumb about quantitative attributes on tl.net: All generally means Most Most generally means Some Some generally means It Happened to a Friend Once As long as we are fully aware of the semantic inflation which is always the best friend of Hyperbole, we can at least come to a mutual understanding that we speak in a poetic, rather than mathematical spirit. I would expect it to be a world where people take responsibility for and are held accountable for their own actions. Like not raping women who decided to "dress as you please, drink, and walk alone." A world where your clothing lets people not only rape you, but also lets others tell you that you deserved it, isn't a nice, happy world. Are you denying then the entire argument of secondary causes, where it is relevant to persons? For instance, that which we call breeding is the secondary action of the parent reflected in the action of the child, or that which we call learning is the secondary action of the teacher reflected in the student? … Et al. | ||
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RageBot
Israel1530 Posts
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KwarK
United States43866 Posts
On August 27 2012 02:23 MoltkeWarding wrote: Come now, everything is a factor, unless you are claiming that aesthetics are completely irrelevant to sexual desire. This quote alone is reason enough for you to shut the fuck up. You are completely clueless about this issue. | ||
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cLAN.Anax
United States2847 Posts
I see it as a matter of personal responsibility. Each individual should be blamed for what they did wrong. In the case of a rape, the perpetrator (and the perpetrator alone) is responsible for the crime they committed. In the case of using poor judgment or lack of discretion on the part of the victim, that's the fault of the victim, regardless if they become the victim of a criminal's actions or not. They are mutually exclusive from each other. The one cannot, and should not, be blamed for the actions of another. Again, just my couple of cents to add. | ||
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HULKAMANIA
United States1219 Posts
On August 27 2012 03:07 KwarK wrote: This quote alone is reason enough for you to shut the fuck up. You are completely clueless about this issue. Now, now, Kwark, not in front of the children. It's not healthy for them to see mom and dad quarrel. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
On August 27 2012 03:07 KwarK wrote: This quote alone is reason enough for you to shut the fuck up. You are completely clueless about this issue. Socrates was also clueless about the meaning of piety, but nonetheless had the audacity to amuse and instruct the world millenia later with Euthyphro. What the world has forgotten are the names of the jurors who sentenced him to death. Reason, my dear Kwark, has nothing to do with my not shutting up, nor with your recommendation that I do. I have not yet decided whether I'm going to be clueless with the issue or not, and in fairness you must see that I have not really offered my own perspective on the general question. This thread, indeed, demonstrates the great dangers of having too many clues about too abstract a subject. In other words, Kwark, I shall be the first to admit that I am a fool when others drop their pretensions to being wise. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
On August 27 2012 03:39 HULKAMANIA wrote: Now, now, Kwark, not in front of the children. It's not healthy for them to see mom and dad quarrel. Not to give further reinforcement to Kwark's feminist feelings, but in this case he is definitely the Mom. | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
Lol Then what are you doing in this thread besides trying to act like a smartguy? | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
On August 27 2012 04:17 Rassy wrote: "I have not yet decided whether I'm going to be clueless with the issue or not, and in fairness you must see that I have not really offered my own perspective on the general question" Lol Then what are you doing in this thread besides trying to act like a smartguy? Prime example of why this thread is bad taste. Read my comment on Socrates  What do you think he ever did in Athens besides trying to act like a smartguy? | ||
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McFeser
United States2458 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:18 Crushinator wrote: To be fair to him, that problem does not exist in most of Europe. In the western world it seems to be primarily an American issue. Why do you think that is? And can anyone else back up that statement? | ||
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KwarK
United States43866 Posts
On August 27 2012 04:20 McFeser wrote: Why do you think that is? And can anyone else back up that statement? Our prisons are in the public sector and the incarcerated population of all of Western Europe is considerably lower than that of the United States alone. | ||
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