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On June 13 2012 14:12 Azzur wrote:
I'll like to read the study itself - I don't understand how bias can be measured by some arithmetic tests - these tests are designed to "trick" people but if people pause for a couple of seconds, they will get the right answer.
Anyways, I have a deep skepticism of these psychology studies and this has made me even more unimpressed.
Tried to get it for you. It's not out yet, not even on epub ahead of print. Date says Jun 04 2012, so maybe in a couple weeks. All you can settle for is the abstract right now
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I'm prone to many biases, and I make plenty of careless math errors, but both the pond and bat/ball questions were extremely simple to get within a few seconds. Do these rudimentary examples really expose a bias? Maybe I'm just dumb.
edit: without reading the article, I'm guessing that these examples are not particularly the basis of the research but more of a throwaway anecdote to set the stage, maybe as related works? I hope.
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On June 13 2012 13:49 HaNdFisH wrote:Seems the study was done just on Psychology students, would have been interesting to see a cross-discipline one. Show nested quote +
Method
Participants. The participants were 482 undergraduate students
(122 men, 360 women) from a medium-sized, eastern university
recruited through an introductory psychology subject pool.
Just curious but how did you get access to methods? I can't find access online to the journal article, seems to be from Jun 04 even though i have full paid access to that particualr journal
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People who ace the SAT's aren't always the smartest. SATs tend to be grade 9 content. Acing them just means you really understand your grade 9 stuff. Doesn't constitute to intelligence. Intelligence is also hard to quantify. The test could be invalid using different standards for intelligence. It totally depends on the perspective and reference point.
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On teamliquid, everyone is GM and everyone is a math wizard. With large private parts. And great jobs.
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On June 13 2012 14:27 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:49 HaNdFisH wrote:Seems the study was done just on Psychology students, would have been interesting to see a cross-discipline one.
Method
Participants. The participants were 482 undergraduate students
(122 men, 360 women) from a medium-sized, eastern university
recruited through an introductory psychology subject pool.
Just curious but how did you get access to methods? I can't find access online to the journal article, seems to be from Jun 04
Pulled the paper up from my University's library site, has subscriptions for journals etc. I just skimmed down to that as I was interested to see what the sample group was.
*edit*
After skimming further it seems they also cover a second study in the paper (Study 2). This time on 265 Mechanical Turk workers, with educational backgrounds varying from highschool to BA/BS degrees.
The method they used to determine cognitive ability was a set of 3 question tests like the questions given in the OP (apparently called a CRT), as well as self reporting of SAT scores for the psychology students. So it seems the questions in the OP were what was used to determine cognitive ability, and then the bias questions were things like
Imagine that the U.S. is preparing for the outbreak of an unusual
disease, which is expected to kill 600 people. Two alternative programs
to combat the disease have been proposed. Assume that the
exact scientific estimates of the consequences of the programs are as
follows:
If Program A is adopted, 200 people will be saved.
If Program B is adopted, there is a one-third probability that 600
people will be saved and a two-thirds probability that no people will
be saved.
Which of the two programs would you favor?
for risk bias for example.
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Shouldn't the ball cost 5 cents? If the ball cost 5 cents then the bat which cost a dollar more would be 1.05$. 1.05$+.05$ = 1.10$. The ball can't cost 10 cents because then the bat would cost 1.10$ and .10$ + 1.10$ = 1.20$.
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On June 13 2012 14:39 HaNdFisH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 14:27 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 13 2012 13:49 HaNdFisH wrote:Seems the study was done just on Psychology students, would have been interesting to see a cross-discipline one.
Method
Participants. The participants were 482 undergraduate students
(122 men, 360 women) from a medium-sized, eastern university
recruited through an introductory psychology subject pool.
Just curious but how did you get access to methods? I can't find access online to the journal article, seems to be from Jun 04 Pulled the paper up from my University's library site, has subscriptions for journals etc. I just skimmed down to that as I was interested to see what the sample group was.
same, i should have access then. oh well
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On June 13 2012 14:09 Artemis_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 14:06 SipNanana wrote:
can someone please explain these?
Bat + Ball = $1.10 (ok)
Bat = Ball + $1 (ok)
=> (Ball +1) + Ball = 1.10 (no..... ball + $1 = bat + ball) no where did it say if you buy 2 balls and add a dollar it equals $1.10
Ball + Ball = $.10 (now irrelevant)
2Ball = $.10 (now irrelevant)
Ball = $.05 (now irrelevant) Ball = X Bat = X + 1.00 X+ (X + 1.00) = 1.10 2X = .10 (If you do not understand how I got here, then well... idk what to say) X = .05
my problem with this is;
let's say we know the ball costs 10cents, using your formula to prove it.
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There was a study in germany where they tested how people understand text questions. One question was for example: "You have 10 oranges on a boat. On the boat there are 32 passengers. How old is the captain?"
People who have a high education standard answered more often with 42 (~70%) and people with a low education did not answer as much (~30%)
Therefore I don't see how you can really unroll the argument because people are trained to scan through question and just plug the numbers 
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a great quote that relates to this is
"you only need a certain amount of information to make a decision. Everything after that gets in the way"
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On June 13 2012 14:41 SipNanana wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 14:09 Artemis_ wrote:On June 13 2012 14:06 SipNanana wrote:
can someone please explain these?
Bat + Ball = $1.10 (ok)
Bat = Ball + $1 (ok)
=> (Ball +1) + Ball = 1.10 (no..... ball + $1 = bat + ball) no where did it say if you buy 2 balls and add a dollar it equals $1.10
Ball + Ball = $.10 (now irrelevant)
2Ball = $.10 (now irrelevant)
Ball = $.05 (now irrelevant) Ball = X Bat = X + 1.00 X+ (X + 1.00) = 1.10 2X = .10 (If you do not understand how I got here, then well... idk what to say) X = .05 my problem with this is; let's say we know the ball costs 10cents, using your formula to prove it.
You should look too posts above at Bearhammers post
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It reminds me of story problems in grade school. I would know what they wanted, could easily identify the garbage information, but then how they worded the money question, I could always interpret it in 2-4 ways. Do they want the really smart(ass) answer? or the simple one?
It also reminds me of the test where the teachers says read the freakin directions. the 2nd to last direction is grats on reading the test, kick back and watch these idiots do all these problems. i remember doing the math fast as shite and noticing some of the"dumb" kids looking around and I was like wtf.
Anyway, the realization that self-awareness does not improve oneself is fairly disturbing. The whole I hate my dad and I'll never be like that, but when you grow up to be just like him always sucks right? The emotion part of the brain is op. Buff me logic bro!
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On June 13 2012 14:44 Chiller274 wrote:There was a study in germany where they tested how people understand text questions. One question was for example: "You have 10 oranges on a boat. On the boat there are 32 passengers. How old is the captain?" People who have a high education standard answered more often with 42 (~70%) and people with a low education did not answer as much (~30%) Therefore I don't see how you can really unroll the argument because people are trained to scan through question and just plug the numbers
LMAO if someone actually read the question how would they answer 42? Too many people skim instead of reading, I guess.
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On June 13 2012 14:52 Demonhunter04 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 14:44 Chiller274 wrote:There was a study in germany where they tested how people understand text questions. One question was for example: "You have 10 oranges on a boat. On the boat there are 32 passengers. How old is the captain?" People who have a high education standard answered more often with 42 (~70%) and people with a low education did not answer as much (~30%) Therefore I don't see how you can really unroll the argument because people are trained to scan through question and just plug the numbers LMAO if someone actually read the question how would they answer 42? Too many people skim instead of reading, I guess.
There might me a different reason to answer this question with "42". Just saying.
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On June 13 2012 14:39 IPA wrote:
On teamliquid, everyone is GM and everyone is a math wizard. With large private parts. And great jobs.
LOL so true.
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Ball-5 cents
Bat-$1.05
I just guessed and checked. Ball costing 10 cents gives you $1.20 overall. Go lower. 5 cents make sense, since you will get a multiple of 10 cents as an answer.
If someone basically tells me that the problem is going to be a 'trick' question, it makes it much easier. If this were on a test where it was one of a hundred word problems with time pressure it would likely be easy to answer incorrectly. Also, I don't see why the SAT is mentioned as correlating to intelligence. Its almost completely down to test taking skills and practice.
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On June 13 2012 14:51 TehRealSulfur wrote:
It reminds me of story problems in grade school. I would know what they wanted, could easily identify the garbage information, but then how they worded the money question, I could always interpret it in 2-4 ways. Do they want the really smart(ass) answer? or the simple one?
It also reminds me of the test where the teachers says read the freakin directions. the 2nd to last direction is grats on reading the test, kick back and watch these idiots do all these problems. i remember doing the math fast as shite and noticing some of the"dumb" kids looking around and I was like wtf.
Anyway, the realization that self-awareness does not improve oneself is fairly disturbing. The whole I hate my dad and I'll never be like that, but when you grow up to be just like him always sucks right? The emotion part of the brain is op. Buff me logic bro!
I remember doing that like that in elementary grade school, that was odd though, i did probably a quarter of the test before i saw the last question that said that. I use to love doing math questions in my head while i looked on ahead, so it was around 20 questions, i jotted the first 4 down before reading that i was like LOL shit i technically failed.
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Its kind of funny, i consider myself to be a smart person, my IQ was something like 1245 when i took the test as a kid, I got a great score on the ASVAB when i was considering the army, and I got a perfect on the reading comprehension section of the SAT's...
My physics teacher in high school was a big fan of little intelligence games similar to the questions mentioned in the OP
in his class one day i finished a test really early, he gave me two trapezoidal wooden blocks and said make a pyramid out of them... i spent a solid half hour trying to figure it out, the answer was extremely simple, but i kept "over thinking it"
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Wait, so this question in OP indicates whether or not you have cognitive bias right? Where people who are too smart that they get these simple questions wrong. So if i answered it wrong, that shows indication of cognitive bias. But smart people are prone to bias, which suggests that i am one of the smarter people by thinking that that ball was actually 10 cents.
+ Show Spoiler +see what i did there?
But yeah, i really did think 10 cents initially, before i read the posts below
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EPT
