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Smarter people more prone to cognitive bias - Page 16

Forum Index > General Forum
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Kraidio
Profile Joined May 2011
China133 Posts
June 14 2012 04:42 GMT
#301
Well from reading this thread everyone remembered how to do math better than I did.

I came up wrong on both answers, and didn't even know how to do the Pond one. Cool to see so many people good at that kind of stuff though.
A man does what he must — in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers, and pressures — and that is the basis of all human morality.
Zahir
Profile Joined March 2012
United States947 Posts
June 14 2012 04:54 GMT
#302
The psychiatrist told me that he didn’t want to ‘lose another one’, that people like me are intelligent, and that’s our downfall. We draw connections so well that we draw them even when they shouldn’t be there. He said it’s easy to get caught up in paranoia in our fast paced world, a constantly changing place where more and more of our interaction is simulated…

I have to give him one thing. It’s a great explanation. It neatly explains everything. It perfectly explains everything, in fact. I have every reason to shake off this nightmarish fear that some thing or consciousness or being out there wants me to open the door so it can capture me for some horrible fate worse than death. It would be foolish, after hearing that explanation, to stay in here until I starve to death just to spite the entity that might have got everyone else. It would be foolish to think that, after hearing that explanation, I might be one of the last people left alive on an empty world, hiding in my secure basement room, spiting some unthinkable deceptive entity just by refusing to be captured. It’s a perfect explanation for every single strange thing I’ve seen or heard, and I have every reason in the world to let all of my fears go, and open the door.

That's exactly why I'm not going to.


Excerpt from Psychosis.

When a psychologist starts making a hoopla over what ought to be common sense, suspicion is the proper response.
What is best? To crush the Zerg, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the Protoss.
anycolourfloyd
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia524 Posts
June 14 2012 05:24 GMT
#303
with the lily pond one, for a microsecond i thought 24 then about 0.1 seconds later i saw that it was 47. i'd say that my first "instinct" was 24 but when i put any thought into it at all i got 47.. so i'll pass myself on that one.

the bat and ball one is more worrying, haha. once again i instinctively thought 10c/$1 but it's only because i suspected a trap that i backchecked it to find that that's a 90c difference. i got 5c/$1.05 a few seconds after that. i'd count that as a fail.
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-14 05:33:46
June 14 2012 05:28 GMT
#304
On June 13 2012 13:27 Ecrilon wrote:
A bat and ball cost a dollar and ten cents. The bat costs a dollar, more than the ball. How much does the ball cost?
Suddenly the ball costs 10 cents instead of 5 cents. ****ing commas man. How do they work.

I like this. Nonetheless, I'd say it would be very improper english to use a comma like that.

One would probably need to use an em-dash, parenthesis, or possibly an elipsis. When english is written wrong one could consider something interpretable in multiple ways; it should be done correctly to ensure only a single proper answer. Yes, I am aware that it would [somewhat] kill the trickiness of this question, but that's kinda the point.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
yokohama
Profile Joined February 2005
United States1116 Posts
June 14 2012 05:30 GMT
#305
I got both the questions right, but I wonder if I would've had a different thought process and not read them as in depth if the topic had not been about cognitive bias. But then that could go against the argument of self awareness o_O
Space Invader
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia291 Posts
June 14 2012 05:31 GMT
#306
pfft, i've always assumed people are IRRATIONAL

also, title contradicts itself!
I may be of thome athithtanthe if there ith a thudden crithith!
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
June 14 2012 08:21 GMT
#307
ball cost five cents, easy math question. same with the question above. please define "smart".
tertos
Profile Joined April 2011
Romania394 Posts
June 14 2012 11:09 GMT
#308


Smarter people more prone to cognitive bias = People with legs are more prone to falling.
I was born this way
Grend
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1600 Posts
June 14 2012 11:40 GMT
#309
What I do not get is that you ask us to use shortcuts: "Answer as quickly as you can"
and then lo and behold people are not able to answer correctly to word riddles designed to confound you.
♞ Against the Wind - Bob Seger ♞
DoctorPhil
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands168 Posts
June 14 2012 17:14 GMT
#310
Wow that's so odd. I just couldn't believe it wasn't 10 cents untill I took a pen and paper and started calculating. I guess that means I'm smart then huh? =)
Kyrillion
Profile Joined August 2011
Russian Federation748 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-14 17:27:48
June 14 2012 17:27 GMT
#311
I don't see exactly what would be spontaneous answering in that case. But the reactions remind me of that famous story about Pierre-Gilles de Gennes : in his first or second year, his physics teacher asked him : " If we connect a little and a big bubble, what happens ? Don't reflect and answer at once." "No, that's when I'm supposed to reflect."

+ Show Spoiler +
If we calculate the inner pression in a bubble, heeding both superficial tension and the outer pression, we find that the pression is greater if the bull is smaller. Surprise, the little bubble shrinks and yields its air to the big one ! It's impossible to guess that result by intuition, of course.




On June 14 2012 04:54 Cynry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2012 04:16 Cirqueenflex wrote:
For me being smart is trying to learn out of everything you do, finding mistakes by connecting patterns and constantly improving. This is like infinite possibilities and can never be truly measured by any kind of stupid IQ test where you suddenly seem more intelligent if you had the luck to already have heard such a question and its solution already.

You probably don't know much about IQ tests. It's a wide array of tasks that you have to complete, and the result is calculated considering the time it took you and how good were your answers. From what I remember there were logic, calculus, some general knowledge, vocabulary and even some moral issues (like, if you find a wallet with the owner ID in it, what do you do). Of course factors such as mood, weariness and maybe even luck to an extent can change the outcome.
The trick, which is what I think most people don't know, is that the result isn't strictly how intelligent you are. It's more like trying to know what time is it by watching the shade of a stick in the ground. Indirect measurement, and with only 70% accuracy if I remember correctly. Still the best way we have to measure it so far, as far as I know.
So, being intelligent isn't how fast/good you perform those tasks, but being intelligent helps in doing them better/faster.
What you describe in the first sentence I quoted would be the smart way to use your intelligence, not being intelligent.

Also, please stop saying that IQ tests are stupid. Some people have suffered being "gifted" with high IQ, and knowing why can help them.


It is peculiar after mentioning those tests include moral questions you claim they're not stupid. Obviously they could be made better.
If you seek well, you shall find.
VanGarde
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden755 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-15 02:58:37
June 15 2012 02:52 GMT
#312
There are numerous studies like this one done recently but never is there such a weird spin on the conclusion as in this post. The test with the ball and bat for example shows on the contrary that intelligence and training in fact is the major difference between people who solve the problem correctly and those who don't. Ofcourse you are going to have an instant uncontrollable kneejerk response, with the lilypads your brain is instantly throwing out 24 as the answer, that is the intuitive answer but the difference between people who are educated and who understands biases is that they don't blurt out that initial reaction but keep thinking and very soon figure out the real answer.

The human condition is to jump to conclusions, this has been proven time and time again when you look at how people come to have an opinion in for example politics. Almost everyone on planet earth will sadly first pick their stance and THEN look at the arguments to find the ones that support their stance. The one consistent difference is philosophy students. They first look at the angles and then take a stance. The answer is quite easy, philosophy students have been trained to think twice, they are constantly forced to solve "moral problems" like the one with the train approaching 10 people and you have the ability to flip the switch and make it go onto the rail with only 1 person on it. This practice of being forced to look for hidden information or other angles is the difference and people who do not study philosophy can train themselves to do the same obviously.

Your intuitive response is never going to change, you can't train intuition, intuition is in most cases completely useless. The difference intelligence and practice does is that you know to ignore your intuition and keep looking for all the data.

In the end smart people can still get these questions wrong if they are not aware of how our brain fails us, it might be that they are very intelligent and they wrongfully think that their intelligence is also represented in their intution. But the intuition of a professor and a dumbass is about as good. They will vastly differ though on rational thinking. Which means that the bottom line remains whether or not you are aware of how we are biased and how our intuition fools us.

It almost seems like the argument in the OP is that your instant 0.1 millisecond reaction response is going to be wrong so you are wrong. But it is only really wrong if you stop there and go with that answer, which smart people will not do. Who cares what the initial reaction is if you immediately identify it as incorrect?
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
Voltaire
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1485 Posts
June 15 2012 09:28 GMT
#313
The bat/ball question was worded oddly. Random questions like that don't measure anything.
As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
June 15 2012 12:09 GMT
#314
On June 15 2012 11:52 VanGarde wrote:
Your intuitive response is never going to change, you can't train intuition, intuition is in most cases completely useless. The difference intelligence and practice does is that you know to ignore your intuition and keep looking for all the data.

Intuition grows with experience. It's not some magical inborn power that can never ever be altered.
My strategy is to fork people.
blarkh
Profile Joined December 2011
Austria72 Posts
June 21 2012 12:04 GMT
#315
On June 14 2012 13:17 theolysis wrote:
In my experience, less unintelligent people are just as biased as intelligent people.


In my experience, less unintelligent people are intelligent people.
TurtleNinja
Profile Joined April 2012
United States15 Posts
June 21 2012 12:17 GMT
#316
On June 15 2012 18:28 Voltaire wrote:
The bat/ball question was worded oddly. Random questions like that don't measure anything.


Using inductive reasoning, I can infer that you probably failed the bat/ball question.
ChoiBoi
Profile Joined January 2011
United States130 Posts
June 21 2012 12:19 GMT
#317
Weird, I immediately thought 47 but when I tried to verbalize (to myself ) I said 24...

But yeah, the ball/bat question is worded weirdly, but I did get the question right.
x + y = 1.10
x = y + 1

(y + 1) + y = 1.10
2y = .10

1.05 = x (bat)
.05 = y (ball)
Wrath 2.1
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany880 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-21 12:22:44
June 21 2012 12:21 GMT
#318
interesting
The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.
Klockan3
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Sweden2866 Posts
June 21 2012 12:22 GMT
#319
On June 15 2012 11:52 VanGarde wrote:
Your intuitive response is never going to change, you can't train intuition, intuition is in most cases completely useless. The difference intelligence and practice does is that you know to ignore your intuition and keep looking for all the data.

So a five year old would also answer 24 days and 10 cents? No, that intuition came from studying maths for over ten years. You can train your intuition but it takes time.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 21 2012 12:26 GMT
#320
Bizarre, people used algebra. Obviously initial thought is omg ball is 10 cents! but then you realise it's only 90 cents less. A slight mental shuffle gives you 1.05/0.05 without the algebra shenanigans
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
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