They want it because they think it looks nice. Why would that be a value disorder?
We will not have enough resources to build a castle for everyone, meaning that there will be a limit to what each person can get. And people will get to used to this standard- for example, a mid-class family today will always expect to have a car as a mode of transportation, a luxury for those in third-world countries. What happens if someone wants more than a house and a standardized quality of food?
Because its not substainable,practical or socialy concious but rather a form of violence. Like a person saying Oh well i want a mansion with 100 cars. Then i counter with saying i want all of africa as my mansion and europe as my garage for my billion cars. Its not substainable,reasonable or practical. If you think that way your values are oudated and inferior you need new ones.
Also, why wouldn't people want cars? In this society people would probably be traveling a lot more as they'd want to do things/visit places, and would supposedly have the capacity to do so now?
Public transportation will be so developed that it would be easier to just step outside and not having to bother with driving, And we are talking Vac-train technology new york to bejing in 30 minutes. that sort of stuff.
We already made billions upon billions of cars most of them are in a dump somwhere wasted material once again. The only diffrence is we could do with less cars and not waste the material used to build and throw away.
Finally, my big question is this: How will the elimination of money lead to: more efficient food production, better distribution of resources, and automatization of most of the work done?
Through the use of technology and the scientific method as a tool to design society.
Can you tell me who your friend in NASA was that told you it was possible? If you don't want to disclose his name, just tell us details so we know you didn't make it up.
most people in NASA can understand a RBE since they are enginners and scientists they understand this language.
Currently Doug malette is working with NASA on one of their on earth missions to create an substainable compound. that is cheap in resources yet produces food,electricity this isent rocket science(hehe) to them.
NASA is getting their funds cut everywhere so its raining enginners and scientists. And is most likely another reason why they are approaching the RBE concept.
It's not plausible, you could live in a world like this but who would build your houses? Who would be your doctors? Who would produce your computers? Who would be our leaders, and would be in charge of distribution?
The only way it would even be remotely close to plausible if people were willing to give up there lives to do the things other people don't want to do, but that kind of goes against the point of the idea.
Wow, NASA is working on new technology?! OMG I had no idea!
NASA has made technological advancements in the past and capitalism has taken those advancements and turned them into usable products.
Furthermore, most of what NASA creates is incredibly expensive. Just because it is technologically possible does not mean that it is economically efficient. Engineers and scientists cannot replace economists.
RBE = science fiction!!
Edit: showing what great work NASA is doing in the current system does NOT prove that RBE is better in ANY way.
On May 26 2012 14:44 blug wrote: It's not plausible, you could live in a world like this but who would build your houses? Who would be your doctors? Who would produce your computers? Who would be our leaders, and would be in charge of distribution?
The only way it would even be remotely close to plausible if people were willing to give up there lives to do the things other people don't want to do, but that kind of goes against the point of the idea.
Machines. I belive there are many solutions to a problem.
showing what great work NASA is doing in the current system does NOT prove that RBE is better in ANY way.
The Zeitgeist movement is working with them on this. Its not a big deal for me these are the kind of people that spawned a RBE to begin with. People like Carl sagan Jacue fresco Einstein and more.
On May 26 2012 14:44 blug wrote: It's not plausible, you could live in a world like this but who would build your houses? Who would be your doctors? Who would produce your computers? Who would be our leaders, and would be in charge of distribution?
The only way it would even be remotely close to plausible if people were willing to give up there lives to do the things other people don't want to do, but that kind of goes against the point of the idea.
Machines
Obviously if you follow the video... but the video implies that they want it to happen now. But that isn't going to happen is it? Computers aren't that sophisticated yet.
The western world is exploiting the third world instead of elevating them and giving them the technology they need.
Honestly, you should be banned for posting crap like this. This is nothing but inflammatory and takes away from legitimate discussion, as do most of your posts. If you really believe this junk then turn off your computer and go try to make a difference.
On May 26 2012 14:44 blug wrote: It's not plausible, you could live in a world like this but who would build your houses? Who would be your doctors? Who would produce your computers? Who would be our leaders, and would be in charge of distribution?
The only way it would even be remotely close to plausible if people were willing to give up there lives to do the things other people don't want to do, but that kind of goes against the point of the idea.
Machines. I belive there are many solutions to a problem.
showing what great work NASA is doing in the current system does NOT prove that RBE is better in ANY way.
The Zeitgeist movement is working with them on this. Its not a big deal for me these are the kind of people that spawned a RBE to begin with. People like Carl sagan Jacue fresco Einstein and more.
NASA is not officially working with zeitgeist. More lies from the propaganda machine!
Obviously if you follow the video... but the video implies that they want it to happen now. But that isn't going to happen is it? Computers aren't that sophisticated yet.
What makes you say that? i have seen machines make pizza grow food even 3D model up a house.. Maybe you are just out of the loop about what technology is out there.
Honestly, you should be banned for posting crap like this. This is nothing but inflammatory and takes away from legitimate discussion, as do most of your posts. If you really believe this junk then turn off your computer and go try to make a difference
I should be banned for it you say? Yet you are promoting this behaviour denying it when you please admiring it when it suits you.
Please I have dealt with enough politicians in my time,like i said before go into your corner and be right while the world starves hopefully in time you will see the errors of your way.
Obviously if you follow the video... but the video implies that they want it to happen now. But that isn't going to happen is it? Computers aren't that sophisticated yet.
What makes you say that? i have seen machines make pizza grow food even 3D model up a house.. Maybe you are just out of the loop about what technology is out there.
Am I? I worked in a hospital for 4 years, Everything done there is done by humans, and the things that aren't are heavily monitored by humans. Do you see robots making buildings yet? Well possibly, but not the the extent where you would trust a robot to make a building for you.
You could argue, you could get people to manage such things to make sure they are in working order but if we eliminate money then what incentive do you have to get those people to manage it.
It's not plausible at all at this current stage, I would never trust a machine 75% of the things I do in my life. Perhaps you could live a life with the current technology, but there is no way shape or form you would be living a life like you do at the moment, atleast in terms of luxuries you receive. There would be no moving forward in terms of society, there would be absolutely no incentive. The whole idea has so many flaws I simply can't name them all.
What about Political Leaders? Would we simply not have them? Would we simply have a life where we are governed by our own rules and ethics? Who will solve disputes? Will a robot?
And yes, I am in the loop with technology, we simply aren't advanced enough yet and probably won't be for a very long time.
Obviously if you follow the video... but the video implies that they want it to happen now. But that isn't going to happen is it? Computers aren't that sophisticated yet.
What makes you say that? i have seen machines make pizza grow food even 3D model up a house.. Maybe you are just out of the loop about what technology is out there.
Honestly, you should be banned for posting crap like this. This is nothing but inflammatory and takes away from legitimate discussion, as do most of your posts. If you really believe this junk then turn off your computer and go try to make a difference
I should be banned for it you say? Yet you are promoting this behaviour denying it when you please admiring it when it suits you.
Please I have dealt with enough politicians in my time,like i said before go into your corner and be right while the world starves hopefully in time you will see the errors of your way.
WTF are you talking about? What behavior am I promoting? You say crap like "capitalism starves 1 billion people" without stating any facts to support it. When the rest of us point out that conditions in Africa are improving you counter with terrible propaganda pictures like that. It's total crap.
Obviously if you follow the video... but the video implies that they want it to happen now. But that isn't going to happen is it? Computers aren't that sophisticated yet.
What makes you say that? i have seen machines make pizza grow food even 3D model up a house.. Maybe you are just out of the loop about what technology is out there.
Honestly, you should be banned for posting crap like this. This is nothing but inflammatory and takes away from legitimate discussion, as do most of your posts. If you really believe this junk then turn off your computer and go try to make a difference
I should be banned for it you say? Yet you are promoting this behaviour denying it when you please admiring it when it suits you.
Please I have dealt with enough politicians in my time,like i said before go into your corner and be right while the world starves hopefully in time you will see the errors of your way.
WTF are you talking about? What behavior am I promoting? You say crap like "capitalism starves 1 billion people" without stating any facts to support it. When the rest of us point out that conditions in Africa are improving you counter with terrible propaganda pictures like that. It's total crap.
And yes, I am in the loop with technology, we simply aren't advanced enough yet and probably won't be for a very long time.
Page 1 I lost my job/Service sector automation.
WTF are you talking about? What behavior am I promoting? You say crap like "capitalism starves 1 billion people" without stating any facts to support it
Well its more the monetary system in general not capitalism per say it is just so that capitalism is the most agressive of the monetary systems. all -Isms are monetary systems that included communism,socialism and fascism. aswel
WTF are you talking about? What behavior am I promoting? You say crap like "capitalism starves 1 billion people" without stating any facts to support it
WTF are you talking about? What behavior am I promoting? You say crap like "capitalism starves 1 billion people" without stating any facts to support it
Well its more the monetary system in general not capitalism per say it is just so that capitalism is the most agressive of the monetary systems. all -Isms are monetary systems that included communism,socialism and fascism. aswel
RBE is a money system. You just replace the world money with resources and stop using math.
The western world is exploiting the third world instead of elevating them and giving them the technology they need.
Honestly, you should be banned for posting crap like this. This is nothing but inflammatory and takes away from legitimate discussion, as do most of your posts. If you really believe this junk then turn off your computer and go try to make a difference.
No, this is turning more and more of teamliquid newcomers into seasoned men and women. You have just met a true believer. He has identified all that is wrong with the world and the constructs that made it so. Making everything free is the only outlet. Some last in this state 2 years, some 5 years, some 10 years, and some a lifetime. An educated but base propagandist.
I popped in earlier to suggest he join a commune and profit from his own and other's donated labor for the good of all. Even gave him a website. But the problem with capitalism is truly the capitalists ... who benefit from the system so mystically that they think themselves smarter than a free market system. All the while they remain ignorant of what life would entail if you were unable to keep the fruits of your labor ... if the next guy had just as righteous a demand to it as yourself. Honestly, I'd give him props for participating in that sort of experiment. Society driven by the new knowledge, and love, and an appreciation for mother earth--make a microcosm of that and come back singing its praises.
Carry on, DeliCiousVP and any other subscribers. Fling more mud at the capitalist system. Then pull up your quasi-communist system from the sewers and sniff each. You're just 20 more social injustices from making your case smell better.
No, this is turning more and more of teamliquid newcomers into seasoned men and women. You have just met a true believer. He has identified all that is wrong with the world and the constructs that made it so. Making everything free is the only outlet. Some last in this state 2 years, some 5 years, some 10 years, and some a lifetime. An educated but base propagandist.
I popped in earlier to suggest he join a commune and profit from his own and other's donated labor for the good of all. Even gave him a website. But the problem with capitalism is truly the capitalists ... who benefit from the system so mystically that they think themselves smarter than a free market system. All the while they remain ignorant of what life would entail if you were unable to keep the fruits of your labor ... if the next guy had just as righteous a demand to it as yourself. Honestly, I'd give him props for participating in that sort of experiment. Society driven by the new knowledge, and love, and an appreciation for mother earth--make a microcosm of that and come back singing its praises.
Carry on, DeliCiousVP and any other subscribers. Fling more mud at the capitalist system. Then pull up your quasi-communist system from the sewers and sniff each. You're just 20 more social injustices from making your case smell
Haha now thats how you insult someone .
No, Zeitgeist is full of crap. How many times to I need to point out their lies / half-truths?
I offered you declined, now dont claim i never offered.
I find the lack of functioning rbe communes, or any current attempt at such, says a lot more than the rbe talk-talk.
Actions speak louder than words. If you want to lead, Do so. By example, not by telling everyone else what to do. Show your way is better, don't just say it. Even if you think rbe is impractical at a small scale, if you are really that driven and confident in your system you should create a case study that at least proves some parts of it viable.
Until then, I will continue to dismiss this as armchair utopianism with no evidence to support it. Yknow, evidence... Experimentation... Putting ideas into practice to see if they agree with reality. The basis of that science stuff that is supposedly going to make all our problems go away.
Until you do that, or provide us with real facts and cases to analyze, can you really call yourself a man of science?
On May 26 2012 17:54 Zahir wrote: I find the lack of functioning rbe communes, or any current attempt at such, says a lot more than the rbe talk-talk.
Actions speak louder than words. If you want to lead, Do so. By example, not by telling everyone else what to do. Show your way is better, don't just say it. Even if you think rbe is impractical at a small scale, if you are really that driven and confident in your system you should create a case study that at least proves some parts of it viable.
Until then, I will continue to dismiss this as armchair utopianism with no evidence to support it. Yknow, evidence... Experimentation... Putting ideas into practice to see if they agree with reality. The basis of that science stuff that is supposedly going to make all our problems go away.
Until you do that, or provide us with real facts and cases to analyze, can you really call yourself a man of science?
I agree. SHOW us how it can be done, rather than saying some parts might be viable ect ect.
You can't build houses robots in practical use yet. We MIGHT have shown how it may be done in the future, but do you really see robots building houses today? That's because the technology isn't practical. Robots can not and WILL NOT replace every single one of the jobs we'll need to fill up. How will you deal with this?
The system is absolutely dependent on the fact that everyone wants to share, and everyone wants to chip in for the good of the community. This shares the exact the problem with socialism (which many others pointed out)- people would expect you to show up at work, yet there was no incentive but your own goodwill to come to work. And noone did- the system failed and deteriorated into dictatorship for most.
Why is this system similar to total socialism? That's because everyone gets the same value of everything, the distribution, I will assume, will be controlled by a government, which gets practically infinite power over the people because it is given the resources in which the people rely on.
So what is different from a socialist economy and this? In a socialist economy, money has no real value: everyone gets the same amount of it. The RBE promises to fill in automatrons for menial labor, which cannot and will not replace all of unwanted labor.
So my questions are these:
Who will distribute the resources? How do you make sure they're distributed fairly? How will you deal with corruption amongst the resource distributers, who get almost infinite power over the people they provide?
What will you do when automatons cannot fill in for all of human labor? For example, the automated garbage collection system still requires PEOPLE to run for maintenance and such. I wouldn't like to look over robots all day...
What happens when no one wants to come for work? What if less people appear to work?
There are flaws within every system, Utopias don't exist. Please acknowledge some flaws with the RBE and people will take it more seriously.
There are flaws within every system, Utopias don't exist. Please acknowledge some flaws with the RBE and people will take it more seriously.
Nothing is perfect. But the design is based on the scientific method thus problems will be solved actively.
I also wanna note that we are in the transition right now to a RBE. And in the transition our values needs to shift from personal concern to social concern. I suspect based on the direction i have seen in the US that they are moving towards a nordic model(social democracy) as production continue to rise hand in hand with unemployment. People will acknowledge and clamour for reform either causing the collapse of the monetary system or create regulated markets with wellfare states.
I also wanna note that we are in the transition right now to a RBE. And in the transition our values needs to shift from personal concern to social concern. I suspect based on the direction i have seen in the US that they are moving towards a nordic model(social democracy) as production continue to rise hand in hand with unemployment. People will acknowledge and clamour for reform either causing the collapse of the monetary system or create regulated markets with wellfare states.
What United States are you living in? The US political climate is moving away from the "nordic model," as is the majority of the rest of the developed world to boot.
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