Money is a credit system. Cost is a law of physics. Society is the problem.
Eleborate?
Elaborate?
I wrote a massive wall of text then my computer crashed, so I decided to write three lines instead.
The following post is somewhere in between three lines and a massive wall of text. Enjoy.
Money is a credit system. It replaced barter.. Instead of trading surplus items for someone elses surplus items, you trade your surplus items for money and buy exactly what you need or want.
Money = good.
Cost is a law of physics. If you pour a glass of free water the cost is the energy used to pick up the glass, turn the tap and fill it. This energy costs the food you consume to produce it. This food costs the energy it absorbs to grow, and also the nutrients it absorbs, which in turn have their own cost cycle. Everything does. Food does grow in the ground, but it has to be planted, grown, harvested, packaged and delivered. These all are cost cycles with many sub cycles which are all part of an infinite loop of cost cycles. You cannot create energy, you cannot remove cost. Cost is a law of physics.
The video itself points out there is more than enough stuff in the world to look after everyone, and says "In todays society, if you don't have money, basically you die."
It states the reality and the solution but fails to acknowledge the words of wisdom it speaks.
Society is the problem, not money. Society distributes money unfairly, which is why we have inequality. The concept of a global society is a new one, and a firmly established, integrated and fair global society would be required for everyone to live in the kind of world the video describes. Give it time, we are getting there, maybe, but removing money will play absolutely no part in this global society. It's not even relevant, in fact it's ludicrous.
It doesn't matter if you remove "money" there will always be some form of credit system, one way or the other.
I am suprised at the amount of debate over something as conceptually flawed as the end of money.
As funny as it may be, until this pot smoking hippie's vision comes true we will never have an integrated and fair global society and the world the charter describes will never exist. Ok maybe he takes it a little too far with "no possessions" but you get the idea. + Show Spoiler +
Your corrolation between money and cost is confusing how are they connected? and i still dont understand what you mean with cost is a law of physics and what relevance it has to what is being disscused ?
The fact you don't get this is why you believe the OP. Anyone who understands the concept of relativity cannot think for a second that this would work. It's physically impossible. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. If that is true, you cannot create something from nothing.
Look at this to learn how to communicate faster(Speaking with questions rather then statements)
Most of the answers are in these materials if it is not however and you feel that something is utterly incorrect please motivate why you feel this way after you went through it. If you say im not gonna watch any of this shit you have lowered the value of your opinion to the point where you might not even be worth responding to.
If money is debt and debt is slavery than the banks and bakers are the real slaves as they are the most indebted and least able to free themselves from their debts.
If money is debt and debt is slavery than the banks and bakers are the real slaves as they are the most indebted and least able to free themselves from their debts.
Look at this to learn how to communicate faster(Speaking with questions rather then statements) + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uslMICn59N4
Most of the answers are in these materials if it is not however and you feel that something is utterly incorrect please motivate why you feel this way after you went through it. If you say im not gonna watch any of this shit you have lowered the value of your opinion to the point where you might not even be worth responding to.
"You must watch three hours of footage and read this article before you are qualified to respond to my post."
How about no?
What would be better since you have obviously already watched and read all of this is to succinctly communicate the points you feel are relevant so they can be discussed. That way people can respond after just reading your post instead of hours of related content. Try that next time ok?
Anyway, in the next few days I will probably watch and read all of this and give a more direct response to whatever points you may be trying to make here, just in case your views are genuine.
In the mean time I suggest you read these two articles:
Try to understand a perfect world where everything you want is free is never going to happen. It's not possible. A better world is something than can and will happen and is something we should always work towards.
The aims of the charter are sound, the proposed methodology is terrible.
If humans developed socially and technologically to the point where humanity lives as one society and we can move from planet to planet like cosmic locusts taking all of our technology and information with us as we go the charter world might exist, temporarily, on certain planets, because the problem of limited resources would theoretically no longer apply.
This is a hypothetical situation that is centuries if not millenia away (if it ever happens) so.... I wouldn't concern yourself too much with it at the moment.
Either way to get to that point we would need to develop socially and technologically for a long long long time using a credit system similar or identical to the one in place today.
This video exactly proves why money is needed. It directly counters everything your video has said. Money is needed, there is no question about that, to believe otherwise is wrong. This is a fact. Please watch this video if you think otherwise. Any question or oppositions you have is answered in this video.
PS: if you disagree, feel free to discuss about it. I will answer all your questions by posting more videos.
Most of the answers are in these materials if it is not however and you feel that something is utterly incorrect please motivate why you feel this way after you went through it. If you say im not gonna watch any of this shit you have lowered the value of your opinion to the point where you might not even be worth responding to.
1) Money creation has zero to do with the national debt. Loans can be made to either of four parties - households, businesses, governments or foreigners. So the US government could pay down all it's debt and the money supply need not shrink since loans can just be made to other parties. Hence, many critics of our national debt point to the "crowding out effect" of government debt wherein the private sector is harmed by government borrowing since it means less money (through higher interest rates) is available for individuals and businesses.
2) Interest does not make foreclosure 'inevitable.' Interest is paid for by flows of money, so the money to pay the principal plus interest does need to physically exist.
For example, the bank takes in the interest and uses it to first pay interest on it's deposits. The remainder is then used to pay salaries, rent and other expenses. The balance is then kept by the bank as profits. All of these (interest on deposits, expenses plus profit) then get deposited and so the system is kept whole.
In short, interest does not make default inevitable. Nor would negative interest rates make default impossible
In other words, Enron, BP, Goldman, Philip Morris, G.E., Merck, etc., etc. Accounting fraud, tax evasion, toxic dumping, product safety violations, bid rigging, overbilling, perjury. The Walmart bribery scandal, the News Corp. hacking scandal — just open up the business section on an average day. Shafting your workers, hurting your customers, destroying the land. Leaving the public to pick up the tab. These aren’t anomalies; this is how the system works: you get away with what you can and try to weasel out when you get caught.
This tread is about Free world charter and a RBE if you wanna discuss a RBE it is valid of me to show where this information can be attained.
It would not be valid for me to go into a tread say "Free markets" and request people to consume this material but in this tread is is reasonable.
And people saying NO NEVER! NOT IN A THOUSAND YEARS! have very little knowledge of history and of the incriediable path technology has taken and the great achievements considered impossible only years ago.
If you do not have a basic understand of what is being discussed, odds are you dont have a valid opinion on the subject. and im only offering some basics.
In other words, Enron, BP, Goldman, Philip Morris, G.E., Merck, etc., etc. Accounting fraud, tax evasion, toxic dumping, product safety violations, bid rigging, overbilling, perjury. The Walmart bribery scandal, the News Corp. hacking scandal — just open up the business section on an average day. Shafting your workers, hurting your customers, destroying the land. Leaving the public to pick up the tab. These aren’t anomalies; this is how the system works: you get away with what you can and try to weasel out when you get caught.
You have to be totaly indoctrinated to miss the flaws of the monetary system when one is daily faced with overwhelming proof of its failures. That dont mean however that you must understand this direction. But there is no question that our current system is failing hard to solve almost all of our social/enviormental problems.
Money creation has zero to do with the national debt.
What if the nation must borrow the money from the bank in order to create it? at an intrest see you are clueless. watch the material.
On May 15 2012 08:10 xeo1 wrote: In other words, Enron, BP, Goldman, Philip Morris, G.E., Merck, etc., etc. Accounting fraud, tax evasion, toxic dumping, product safety violations, bid rigging, overbilling, perjury. The Walmart bribery scandal, the News Corp. hacking scandal — just open up the business section on an average day. Shafting your workers, hurting your customers, destroying the land. Leaving the public to pick up the tab. These aren’t anomalies; this is how the system works: you get away with what you can and try to weasel out when you get caught.
On May 15 2012 08:10 xeo1 wrote: In other words, Enron, BP, Goldman, Philip Morris, G.E., Merck, etc., etc. Accounting fraud, tax evasion, toxic dumping, product safety violations, bid rigging, overbilling, perjury. The Walmart bribery scandal, the News Corp. hacking scandal — just open up the business section on an average day. Shafting your workers, hurting your customers, destroying the land. Leaving the public to pick up the tab. These aren’t anomalies; this is how the system works: you get away with what you can and try to weasel out when you get caught.
Money creation has zero to do with the national debt.
What if the nation must borrow the money from the bank in order to create it? at an intrest see you are clueless. watch the material.
I did watch it.
The Federal Government does NOT borrow from the Federal Reserve.
When the Fed creates money it buys existing debt and interest payments pass through it and go straight to the US Treasury. This effectively makes US debt held at the Fed have an interest rate of zero. So, if the Federal Government wanted to create money without going into further debt it could just have the Fed buy all its bonds and remit the interest to the Treasury.
Or the Fed could just buy bonds that have not been issued by the Federal Government (other central banks do this.)
Money creation has zero to do with the national debt.
What if the nation must borrow the money from the bank in order to create it? at an intrest see you are clueless. watch the material.
I did watch it.
The Federal Government does NOT borrow from the Federal Reserve.
When the Fed creates money it buys existing debt and interest payments pass through it and go straight to the US Treasury. This effectively makes US debt held at the Fed have an interest rate of zero. So, if the Federal Government wanted to create money without going into further debt it could just have the Fed buy all its bonds and remit the interest to the Treasury.
Or the Fed could just buy bonds that have not been issued by the Federal Government (other central banks do this.)
No and remember the Federal reserve is a private company. There is always a catch a quid pro quo to every arrangement.
"Give me control over a nations currency, and I care not who makes its laws.” Baron M.A. Rothschild
And also watch the material and bring up points from what you belive to be incorrect,false,biased and ludicrius
The Federal Reserve System's structure is composed of the presidentially appointed Board of Governors (or Federal Reserve Board), the Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC), twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the nation, numerous privately owned U.S. member banks and various advisory councils.[10][11][12] The FOMC is the committee responsible for setting monetary policy and consists of all seven members of the Board of Governors and the twelve regional bank presidents, though only five bank presidents vote at any given time. The Federal Reserve System has both private and public components, and was designed to serve the interests of both the general public and private bankers. The result is a structure that is considered unique among central banks. It is also unusual in that an entity outside of the central bank, namely the United States Department of the Treasury, creates the currency used.[13] According to the Board of Governors, the Federal Reserve is independent within government in that "its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government." Its authority is derived from statutes enacted by the U.S. Congress and the System is subject to congressional oversight. The members of the Board of Governors, including its chairman and vice-chairman, are chosen by the President and confirmed by the Senate. The government also exercises some control over the Federal Reserve by appointing and setting the salaries of the system's highest-level employees. Thus the Federal Reserve has both private and public aspects.[14][15][16][17]
Money creation has zero to do with the national debt.
What if the nation must borrow the money from the bank in order to create it? at an intrest see you are clueless. watch the material.
I did watch it.
The Federal Government does NOT borrow from the Federal Reserve.
When the Fed creates money it buys existing debt and interest payments pass through it and go straight to the US Treasury. This effectively makes US debt held at the Fed have an interest rate of zero. So, if the Federal Government wanted to create money without going into further debt it could just have the Fed buy all its bonds and remit the interest to the Treasury.
Or the Fed could just buy bonds that have not been issued by the Federal Government (other central banks do this.)
No and remember the Federal reserve is a private company. There is always a catch a quid pro quo to every arrangement.
"Give me control over a nations currency, and I care not who makes its laws.” Baron M.A. Rothschild
And also watch the material and bring up points from what you belive to be incorrect,false,biased and ludicrius
The Federal Reserve is chartered as a private company (to preserve its independence) but it is 100% owned by the Federal Government. All profits are remitted to the Treasury. The purpose of the Fed are mandated by congress. It's board of governors is appointed by the President and is a federal agency.
In any real-world sense it is not a private company.
Money creation has zero to do with the national debt.
What if the nation must borrow the money from the bank in order to create it? at an intrest see you are clueless. watch the material.
I did watch it.
The Federal Government does NOT borrow from the Federal Reserve.
When the Fed creates money it buys existing debt and interest payments pass through it and go straight to the US Treasury. This effectively makes US debt held at the Fed have an interest rate of zero. So, if the Federal Government wanted to create money without going into further debt it could just have the Fed buy all its bonds and remit the interest to the Treasury.
Or the Fed could just buy bonds that have not been issued by the Federal Government (other central banks do this.)
No and remember the Federal reserve is a private company. There is always a catch a quid pro quo to every arrangement.
"Give me control over a nations currency, and I care not who makes its laws.” Baron M.A. Rothschild
And also watch the material and bring up points from what you belive to be incorrect,false,biased and ludicrius
The Federal Reserve is chartered as a private company (to preserve its independence) but it is 100% owned by the Federal Government. All profits are remitted to the Treasury. The purpose of the Fed are mandated by congress. It's board of governors is appointed by the President and is a federal agency.
In any real-world sense it is not a private company.
It is it grabbed power in 1913. and have been printing out money unrelated to value for some time now as is often brought up by Ron paul for example. There is alot of history and material about them but you gotta go out of the wiki page and even tbh. Sometimes you gotta wade through a muck of illuminati conspircies to and you will find the truth inbewteen.
If you cant even recognize the inherit corruption and flaw in our current system you cant even discuss this that is the next level i suggest taking the fresh out of econ 101 indoctrination back to a free market tread. You are all welcome in a few years when you eyes are opened.
If money is debt and debt is slavery than the banks and bakers are the real slaves as they are the most indebted and least able to free themselves from their debts.
We will fight to free the bakers and their yummy baked goods from the oppression of slavery!
Money creation has zero to do with the national debt.
What if the nation must borrow the money from the bank in order to create it? at an intrest see you are clueless. watch the material.
I did watch it.
The Federal Government does NOT borrow from the Federal Reserve.
When the Fed creates money it buys existing debt and interest payments pass through it and go straight to the US Treasury. This effectively makes US debt held at the Fed have an interest rate of zero. So, if the Federal Government wanted to create money without going into further debt it could just have the Fed buy all its bonds and remit the interest to the Treasury.
Or the Fed could just buy bonds that have not been issued by the Federal Government (other central banks do this.)
No and remember the Federal reserve is a private company. There is always a catch a quid pro quo to every arrangement.
"Give me control over a nations currency, and I care not who makes its laws.” Baron M.A. Rothschild
And also watch the material and bring up points from what you belive to be incorrect,false,biased and ludicrius
The Federal Reserve is chartered as a private company (to preserve its independence) but it is 100% owned by the Federal Government. All profits are remitted to the Treasury. The purpose of the Fed are mandated by congress. It's board of governors is appointed by the President and is a federal agency.
In any real-world sense it is not a private company.
It is it grabbed power in 1913. and have been printing out money unrelated to value for some time now as is often brought up by Ron paul for example.
Ron Paul wants two things:
1) Replace the current fiat currency with gold (still a monetary system).
2) Allow private markets (rather than the public Fed) to set interest rates.
Money creation has zero to do with the national debt.
What if the nation must borrow the money from the bank in order to create it? at an intrest see you are clueless. watch the material.
I did watch it.
The Federal Government does NOT borrow from the Federal Reserve.
When the Fed creates money it buys existing debt and interest payments pass through it and go straight to the US Treasury. This effectively makes US debt held at the Fed have an interest rate of zero. So, if the Federal Government wanted to create money without going into further debt it could just have the Fed buy all its bonds and remit the interest to the Treasury.
Or the Fed could just buy bonds that have not been issued by the Federal Government (other central banks do this.)
No and remember the Federal reserve is a private company. There is always a catch a quid pro quo to every arrangement.
"Give me control over a nations currency, and I care not who makes its laws.” Baron M.A. Rothschild
And also watch the material and bring up points from what you belive to be incorrect,false,biased and ludicrius
The Federal Reserve is chartered as a private company (to preserve its independence) but it is 100% owned by the Federal Government. All profits are remitted to the Treasury. The purpose of the Fed are mandated by congress. It's board of governors is appointed by the President and is a federal agency.
In any real-world sense it is not a private company.
It is it grabbed power in 1913. and have been printing out money unrelated to value for some time now as is often brought up by Ron paul for example.
Ron Paul wants two things:
1) Replace the current fiat currency with gold (still a monetary system).
2) Allow private markets (rather than the public Fed) to set interest rates.
Yes that old stoffile is up to all kinds of shenanigans. i enjoy watching the debates obviously one can expect that he jumps straight into fiscal policy when given the chance.
On May 15 2012 08:10 xeo1 wrote: In other words, Enron, BP, Goldman, Philip Morris, G.E., Merck, etc., etc. Accounting fraud, tax evasion, toxic dumping, product safety violations, bid rigging, overbilling, perjury. The Walmart bribery scandal, the News Corp. hacking scandal — just open up the business section on an average day. Shafting your workers, hurting your customers, destroying the land. Leaving the public to pick up the tab. These aren’t anomalies; this is how the system works: you get away with what you can and try to weasel out when you get caught.
But what happens if we advanced far enough in technology and we moved to live in space? If we remove money, wouldn't that create conflicts against Spacenoids, which in turns might caused them to drop space colony onto earth?
EPT
