EPTOn October 13 2012 00:48 oneofthem wrote:
i'm genuinely amused.
i'm genuinely amused.
yes well, i'm sure you are. i just wish you were genuinely interested in a discussion, and not just in throwing out an incredulous tone.
President Obama Re-Elected - Page 784
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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here. The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301 | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
yes well, i'm sure you are. i just wish you were genuinely interested in a discussion, and not just in throwing out an incredulous tone. | ||
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frogrubdown
1266 Posts
On October 13 2012 00:55 sc2superfan101 wrote: yes well, i'm sure you are. i just wish you were genuinely interested in a discussion, and not just in throwing out an incredulous tone. I'll help you out. The commie comment was a joke. He doesn't actually think commies are the worst conceivable entity. | ||
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logikly
United States329 Posts
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On October 13 2012 00:58 frogrubdown wrote: I'll help you out. The commie comment was a joke. He doesn't actually think commies are the worst conceivable entity. ?? i never said he did... i made the point that even revolutions against communists (or any other enemy), are not necessarily beneficial to the US, or to the people who live under them. it's a pretty well-documented fact that arming the Taliban through funding to Pakistan during the Soviet invasion helped lead directly to the Taliban take-over of Afghanistan, and then to the assassination of Massoud and two days later, 9/11. communists aren't even important in this equation, they could just as easily be fascists or even space-aliens. the thrust of the argument is that supporting revolutions is always going to be risky business. if he' not disagreeing with any of that... then i guess i look stupid. | ||
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
I fail to understand why people are so upset because Ryan/Romney doesn't know specifics yet. In order to do something one comes up with a general plan and then take in account everything that needs to and then design a plan from there. If you really believe you can come up with a plan in such a short time on how to fix the economy while taking care of all the responsibilities you have, then your arrogance astounds me. I would much prefer someone who takes their time, sorts things out and then comes up with a plan. The amount of hypocrisy by the People of today makes me wish I was born in another time; The people scream at politicians for saying they are going to do something and then not do it. When Romney says here is my general idea I dont have specifics yet people are upset with him. You cant have it both ways. For the Fact Checking both Ryan and Biden made mistakes but I believe the ones that were the biggest were the issues on Middle east. Does one not take into account professionalism? Biden sure lacked a lot of that during the debate last night and Martha Raddatz was just an awful mediator by not keeping Biden in check. No, they do have specifics-->Cut taxes across the board and increase defense spending with 2 trillion. Without increasing our debt! It's a fantastic plan. When people hear this ofcourse they are going to say, well how are you going to do that? Frankly, they can't. It's just impossible, The math doesn't add up. | ||
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Erik.TheRed
United States1655 Posts
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
On October 13 2012 01:04 Erik.TheRed wrote: Anyone else think it's funny that Sean Hannity and other Fox News hosts seem genuinely appalled that Biden would interrupt and speak over someone else? I think it's sad. They can't even see they are being hypocrits. Just look at O'Reilly. | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On October 13 2012 01:00 logikly wrote: I fail to understand why people are so upset because Ryan/Romney doesn't know specifics yet. In order to do something one comes up with a general plan and then take in account everything that needs to and then design a plan from there. If you really believe you can come up with a plan in such a short time on how to fix the economy while taking care of all the responsibilities you have, then your arrogance astounds me. I would much prefer someone who takes their time, sorts things out and then comes up with a plan. The amount of hypocrisy by the People of today makes me wish I was born in another time; The people scream at politicians for saying they are going to do something and then not do it. When Romney says here is my general idea I dont have specifics yet people are upset with him. You cant have it both ways. For the Fact Checking both Ryan and Biden made mistakes but I believe the ones that were the biggest were the issues on Middle east. Does one not take into account professionalism? Biden sure lacked a lot of that during the debate last night and Martha Raddatz was just an awful mediator by not keeping Biden in check. Romney has a $5T tax cut and trillions more in defense spending. Yet he will somehow not increase the deficit. So what will he cut and what loopholes will he close to achieve this? That's why it matters... because he's not saying what he will cut, and people will be affected by these cuts. So they obviously have a right to know before they can make an informed vote. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
Unfortunately for him and Barack, they aren't 100% of the electorate, and Ryan won all but one post-debate poll as to who won, who was more likeable, who was more in touch with the issues the common American feels is facing him/her, etc. | ||
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frogrubdown
1266 Posts
On October 13 2012 01:02 sc2superfan101 wrote: ?? i never said he did... i made the point that even revolutions against communists (or any other enemy), are not necessarily beneficial to the US, or to the people who live under them. it's a pretty well-documented fact that arming the Taliban through funding to Pakistan during the Soviet invasion helped lead directly to the Taliban take-over of Afghanistan, and then to the assassination of Massoud and two days later, 9/11. communists aren't even important in this equation, they could just as easily be fascists or even space-aliens. the thrust of the argument is that supporting revolutions is always going to be risky business. if he' not disagreeing with any of that... then i guess i look stupid. You didn't say that he did; he implied that he did, as a joke. (Specifically, it was presumably a satire of knee-jerk anti-left feelings in the U.S., hence the amusement at another U.S. poster taking it seriously). I don't know what he actually agrees and disagrees with in your paragraph, but he hasn't seriously expressed any disagreement in his interaction with you on these issues. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On October 13 2012 01:00 logikly wrote: I fail to understand why people are so upset because Ryan/Romney doesn't know specifics yet. In order to do something one comes up with a general plan and then take in account everything that needs to and then design a plan from there. If you really believe you can come up with a plan in such a short time on how to fix the economy while taking care of all the responsibilities you have, then your arrogance astounds me. I would much prefer someone who takes their time, sorts things out and then comes up with a plan. The amount of hypocrisy by the People of today makes me wish I was born in another time; The people scream at politicians for saying they are going to do something and then not do it. When Romney says here is my general idea I dont have specifics yet people are upset with him. You cant have it both ways. For the Fact Checking both Ryan and Biden made mistakes but I believe the ones that were the biggest were the issues on Middle east. Does one not take into account professionalism? Biden sure lacked a lot of that during the debate last night and Martha Raddatz was just an awful mediator by not keeping Biden in check. They can't say a single deduction or loophole they want to cut after several months. Not a single one. That's bad planning, not making a general plan and going from there. On October 13 2012 00:43 paralleluniverse wrote: Ryan isn't a policy wonk. His budget is basically: assume that spending is X% of GDP, without specifying how to get spending to X% of GDP, now what's the deficit? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330491¤tpage=717#14338 The following 2 articles in the above post are the most fun: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/opinion/krugman-galt-gold-and-god.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/06/opinion/06krugman.html?_r=1 Obviously he's not a policy wonk, he's a career politician who has no idea what he's doing and is only popular because he looks good. But that hasn't stopped the media from painting him as a wunderkind until now. Edit: On October 13 2012 00:32 xDaunt wrote: Interrupting the moderator is fair game. Interrupting the other debater should not be. If I genuinely believed my opponent was directly lying to the entire country on a national stage I would interrupt his lies 100% of the time. I don't care about civility or professionalism. Ryan could have and should have done the same to be honest. | ||
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Darknat
United States122 Posts
On October 13 2012 01:03 Recognizable wrote: No, they do have specifics-->Cut taxes across the board and increase defense spending with 2 trillion. Without increasing our debt! It's a fantastic plan. When people hear this ofcourse they are going to say, well how are you going to do that? Frankly, they can't. It's just impossible, The math doesn't add up. You're leaving out that Romney and Ryan want to repeal Obamacare and decrease the size of government and that Obama and Biden want to increase the size of government. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On October 13 2012 01:00 logikly wrote: I fail to understand why people are so upset because Ryan/Romney doesn't know specifics yet. In order to do something one comes up with a general plan and then take in account everything that needs to and then design a plan from there. If you really believe you can come up with a plan in such a short time on how to fix the economy while taking care of all the responsibilities you have, then your arrogance astounds me. I would much prefer someone who takes their time, sorts things out and then comes up with a plan. The amount of hypocrisy by the People of today makes me wish I was born in another time; The people scream at politicians for saying they are going to do something and then not do it. When Romney says here is my general idea I dont have specifics yet people are upset with him. You cant have it both ways. For the Fact Checking both Ryan and Biden made mistakes but I believe the ones that were the biggest were the issues on Middle east. Does one not take into account professionalism? Biden sure lacked a lot of that during the debate last night and Martha Raddatz was just an awful mediator by not keeping Biden in check. What? It isn't hypocrisy to get mad at a politician for not doing something he said he would do AND to get mad at a politican for not giving specifics of what he would like to do. What about the option where he does exactly what he said he would do? Reasonable individuals don't expect a candidate to have a fully fleshed out plan while still on the campaign trail. But for example, if Romney could let us know exactly which loopholes he would close so that his tax plan would stay revenue neutral, that would be fantastic. If the math works like he says it does, he should have no problem providing it to us. Forgive us for wanting something a little bit better than "Trust me, it will work!" Obama hasn't done a fantastic job, and he definitely hasn't lived up to the hype after the 2008 election, but I know that I personally, and several people I know my age have been positively affected by his policies (specifically first-time home buyer credit and student loans/grants). I also feel like if he would focus less on Obamacare he could get a lot more done. I also know that the evil I know is better than the evil I don't. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On October 13 2012 01:05 Recognizable wrote: I think it's sad. They can't even see they are being hypocrits. Just look at O'Reilly. So we're going to hold cable commentary pundits to the same level as presidential and vice presidential candidates? Please. Democrats and liberals bitch all of the time about how the right has dragged down the level of public discourse. Last night, Biden showed open contempt and disrespect for Paul Ryan on national TV by interrupting him constantly and talking over him. I honestly am appalled that so few people around here understand why what Biden did was wrong. It was unprecedented, and something that politicians just don't do for good reason. | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On October 13 2012 01:14 Darknat wrote: You're leaving out that Romney and Ryan want to repeal Obamacare and decrease the size of government and that Obama and Biden want to increase the size of government. That would make his math even harder. Obamacare reduces the deficit, therefore repealing it will necessarily increase the deficit. The increase is $109 billion according to the CBO: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/43471 | ||
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
On October 13 2012 01:14 xDaunt wrote: So we're going to hold cable commentary pundits to the same level as presidential and vice presidential candidates? Please. Democrats and liberals bitch all of the time about how the right has dragged down the level of public discourse. Last night, Biden showed open contempt and disrespect for Paul Ryan on national TV by interrupting him constantly and talking over him. I honestly am appalled that so few people around here understand why what Biden did was wrong. It was unprecedented, and something that politicians just don't do for good reason. You do realize you're in America. Romney won on antics, Biden won on antics. Points don't matter to the mass of people who don't understand anyway. Two wrongs don't make a right, I agree, but they sure make things even  1-1 | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On October 13 2012 01:14 xDaunt wrote: So we're going to hold cable commentary pundits to the same level as presidential and vice presidential candidates? Please. Democrats and liberals bitch all of the time about how the right has dragged down the level of public discourse. Last night, Biden showed open contempt and disrespect for Paul Ryan on national TV by interrupting him constantly and talking over him. I honestly am appalled that so few people around here understand why what Biden did was wrong. It was unprecedented, and something that politicians just don't do for good reason. I think in previous debates-including even four years ago-Biden wouldn't have done this because he wouldn't have perceived nearly as many direct lies to the American people. | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On October 13 2012 01:16 NeMeSiS3 wrote: You do realize you're in America. Romney won on antics, Biden won on antics. Points don't matter to the mass of people who don't understand anyway. Two wrongs don't make a right, I agree, but they sure make things even 1-1HAHA What would have been good is if these Republicans instead complained that Biden was all style, no substance, and lied. If they had said that, then we could have engaged in a discussion about those substantive topics, and I would also bring up Ryan's lies. But no, they don't want to talk about that, they want to talk about Biden's perceived "rudeness". | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
Obamacare reduces the deficit, ahahahahaha ahahahahaha ahahahahaha aha aha ha ha Obamacare reduces the deficit, that is the funniest bunch of nonsense that has been peddled about it. The CBO had to juggle the numbers so much and the information they make their conclusions from is so jerry-rigged that even the White House thinks it will raise the deficit. But only in secret. In public, it's all hunky-dory. HAHA What would have been good is if these Republicans instead complained that Biden was all style, no substance, and lied. If they had said that, then we could have engaged in a discussion about those substantive topics, and I would also bring up Ryan's lies. But no, they don't want to talk about that, they want to talk about Biden's perceived "rudeness". Particularly funny, as Biden is getting raked over the coals today for lying about Libya and lying about voting for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, while even the Democratic party hacks at the various fact check organizations are having trouble pinning something on Ryan. | ||
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