President Obama Re-Elected - Page 12

On April 20 2012 00:33 Klondikebar wrote:


This is a misunderstanding of history. Americans used to have a HUGELY involved government. For pretty much all of the 20th century the government was the biggest player in the country, taxes were obscene, and the government controlled corporations and people in frightening ways. The New Deal is a big example of just how big government got. There was obviously some ebb and flow even back then but today our government is much smaller than it was previously (at the federal level, state government is ballooning) and taxes are at historic lows...for the rich at least (perhaps for the poor as well).

What's got people up in arms about small government now is that what little government we have is almost completely run by corporate and lobbying money. And now that we have access to a lot more information we're realizing that much of Congress is just a giant game to pocket as much money as possible while creating laws that only allow more profiteering and lobbying. When we scream for small government now we mean we don't want corporations to be able to buy laws and we don't want our tax dollars paying their performance bonuses.

On April 19 2012 23:57 Etrnity wrote:


You misunderstand, the founding believed that the government should not be allowed to infringe upon the rights of people to follow their own religion. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

That does not mean that we cannot vote or elect based on religion, nor does that mean that our leaders have to be atheists. I'm a Christian and I'm voting for Romney (I would prefer Paul, but he's got no chance). Remember that our country was founded over two-hundred years ago, trying to escape the rule of England. The role of religion was still being figured out back then (as it is today), but the founding fathers favored people being able to have whatever religion they wanted. That's all that separation of church and state means.

On April 20 2012 00:24 scaban84 wrote:
Yes in Europe "Liberal" and "Conservative" having different meanings than in the US.
When I lived in Europe there was much less diversity of thought, everyone agreed on role of government. They don't seem to understand the US's struggle for independence and our drive to be different than Europe, Europeans disagree on trivial matters whereas we still debate the "big" questions. Conservative to us is having economic liberty and small government, because it has been the norm for such a long time (not so much anymore). In Europe that is a radically new or "liberal" idea.

On April 20 2012 00:42 scaban84 wrote:

Its not a misunderstanding of History. You just seem to just be focusing on the World War 2 era.

On April 19 2012 18:24 murphs wrote:
Dear America,

Vote Obama.

Sincerely,
Rest of the fucking world.

On April 20 2012 00:45 KwarK wrote:

Everything about this post is so incredibly wrong that it's all hilarious. Do you genuinely think the debate you're having over the role of government is radical and new? I'll tell you why the rest of Europe doesn't argue so much about that stuff. It's because we did our arguing about it decades ago and arrived upon a consensus which we were all reasonably happy with. America isn't pushing new grounds and it hasn't been since the Revolutionary era. Since then it has been reactionary and primitive, a fledgling nation trying to define itself in a much older world. Europeans disagree on trivial matters?!?! Abortion is apparently a huge debate in America. Flag burning too. Gays in the military. These are not big or complicated questions, they're questions that the rest of the world doesn't begin to care about because they're so incredibly simple and childish.

The foundation myth that Americans buy into where they're cutting new ground and pushing new frontiers for human freedom and expression is really quite laughable. The entire history of the 20th Century was the rest of the civilised world arguing over the role of government with relation to economic liberty from the great depression on to the postwar European social democratic consensus in Western Europe and the Soviet bloc in the East. Do you honestly believe that the petty debates between American ideologues have any relevance to the understanding of these questions for a European?

On April 20 2012 00:45 KwarK wrote:

Everything about this post is so incredibly wrong that it's all hilarious. Do you genuinely think the debate you're having over the role of government is radical and new? I'll tell you why the rest of Europe doesn't argue so much about that stuff. It's because we did our arguing about it decades ago and arrived upon a consensus which we were all reasonably happy with. America isn't pushing new grounds and it hasn't been since the Revolutionary era. Since then it has been reactionary and primitive, a fledgling nation trying to define itself in a much older world. Europeans disagree on trivial matters?!?! Abortion is apparently a huge debate in America. Flag burning too. Gays in the military. These are not big or complicated questions, they're questions that the rest of the world doesn't begin to care about because they're so incredibly simple and childish.

The foundation myth that Americans buy into where they're cutting new ground and pushing new frontiers for human freedom and expression is really quite laughable. The entire history of the 20th Century was the rest of the civilised world arguing over the role of government with relation to economic liberty from the great depression on to the postwar European social democratic consensus in Western Europe and the Soviet bloc in the East. Do you honestly believe that the petty debates between American ideologues have any relevance to the understanding of these questions for a European?

On April 20 2012 00:52 Biff The Understudy wrote:

What is ironic is that Republican's (and even more the "libertarians") position on the role of government is basically the one of classical liberal economy, that people here consider as outdated since basically a century. Funny that this can be sold as "new" and "modern" while it's the most reactionary political ideas we have ever had.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

On April 20 2012 00:52 Biff The Understudy wrote:

What is ironic is that Republican's (and even more the "libertarians") position on the role of government is basically the one of classical liberal economy, that people here consider as outdated since basically a century. Funny that this can be sold as "new" and "modern" while it's the most reactionary political ideas we have ever had.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

On April 20 2012 00:52 Biff The Understudy wrote:

What is ironic is that Republican's (and even more the "libertarians") position on the role of government is basically the one of classical liberal economy, that people here consider as outdated since basically a century. Funny that this can be sold as "new" and "modern" while it's the most reactionary political ideas we have ever had.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

On April 20 2012 00:45 KwarK wrote:

Everything about this post is so incredibly wrong that it's all hilarious. Do you genuinely think the debate you're having over the role of government is radical and new? I'll tell you why the rest of Europe doesn't argue so much about that stuff. It's because we did our arguing about it decades ago and arrived upon a consensus which we were all reasonably happy with. America isn't pushing new grounds and it hasn't been since the Revolutionary era. Since then it has been reactionary and primitive, a fledgling nation trying to define itself in a much older world. Europeans disagree on trivial matters?!?! Abortion is apparently a huge debate in America. Flag burning too. Gays in the military. These are not big or complicated questions, they're questions that the rest of the world doesn't begin to care about because they're so incredibly simple and childish.

The foundation myth that Americans buy into where they're cutting new ground and pushing new frontiers for human freedom and expression is really quite laughable. The entire history of the 20th Century was the rest of the civilised world arguing over the role of government with relation to economic liberty from the great depression on to the postwar European social democratic consensus in Western Europe and the Soviet bloc in the East. Do you honestly believe that the petty debates between American ideologues have any relevance to the understanding of these questions for a European?

On April 20 2012 00:51 gwaihir wrote:

does it really matter who you vote? arent they both just puppets in the hands of the economy and the financial system?
this old show of democrats v s republicans , alpha vs omega, good vs bad is not funny anymore. they act like they are both the total opposites of eachother.

they mainly tell you that the other guys will destroy america, or freedom or whatever the people fear the most. really serious topics like healthcare are simply stuck, or just became something else and not what promised.
obama the super world peace einstein of health care really likes to act as he would be different, though. he likes to talk alot about the serious stuff tto, like health care and social disadvantages. but in the end nothing really happens.

So you can choose now, do you want a romney who just straight forward tells you that the bad way is the only and good way.
Or do you want an Obama,who talks about the good way, and defends it with passion. you know , the president of hope and stuff. but in the end doesnt change anything.
Either way the results are straight forward and will go only in one direction.

And I hope someday people in the United States , and many other countries in the world will wake up, stop listening to these puppets and their empty words, and realize that voting doesnt change things anymore. It changes only the faces of people representing the shit that is going on everywhere. Because what they need to do is grab some stones and throw it in the right window to the right time.

Somebody once said something like: "Elections dont change anything, otherwise they would have been banned."

I'm sorry for being very general in this post, and dont take everything here too serious. (I would vote Obama, too just to feel a bit better in terms of moral). But i know here are many people who understand what I mean

On April 20 2012 00:51 liberal wrote:

Come on now... You are completely twisting his point out of recognition. The "big questions" he was referencing has nothing at all to do with flag burning or homosexuality or the others you brought up. The big questions relate to the role the government should play in a citizens life.

You stated that Europe has already decided these questions, so you are agreeing with his central premise, that Europe has answered it's big questions and the US is still debating them.

It was a nice editorial though, just don't twist people's comments completely out of context.

On April 20 2012 00:56 liberal wrote:

Some of classical liberalism is outdated, but most of it forms the foundation for everything both the left and right believe in and agree with. Do you really think the notions of rule of law, due process, freedom of speech, press, and assembly, and a constitutionally restricted government are at all outdated?

On April 20 2012 01:01 Joedaddy wrote:


Fixed.

I'm not happy about Romney at all, but I'd vote for almost anyone before I vote for Obama.