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Zaqwert, you do know that even Richard Muller, who's research was funded by the Koch Brothers, found all sorts of problems with climate change studies. He was one of the biggest skeptics. When he determined a lot of the inaccuracies and fixed him with his own model, he switched sides. He's now a converted skeptic. He did this with funds from the Koch Brothers. He not only found that climate change is happening, but it is almost entirely due to humans.
http://www.care2.com/causes/climate-change-deniers-own-study-changes-his-mind.html
Anyway, how about some good ol' Republicans denying facts and empiricism! The nonpartisan Congressional Research Service released report saying that tax cuts for the wealthy has zero effect on job creation. Republicans pressured the organization to rescind the study! Yea anti-intellectualism!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/01/congressional-research-service_n_2059156.html
I don't quite know why people want to give so many tax cuts to the rich. It doesn't help anyone but the rich. That's why guys like Mitt Romney want to do it. It's not because it helps you. It's because it helps them.
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On November 02 2012 06:20 JDub wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 06:16 ZeaL. wrote:On November 02 2012 06:03 Leporello wrote:On November 02 2012 05:54 Zaqwert wrote:On November 02 2012 05:47 farvacola wrote:On November 02 2012 05:42 Zaqwert wrote:
Man made climate change is a joke and anyone who believes in it is a fool, it's nothing more than a fake crisis designed for governments to increase regulation, taxes, and power, that's why left wingers and socialists scream so much about it.
Feel free to post whatever wikipedia articles and little charts and graphs you want. In 50 years when you are an old man and the earth hasn't turned into a toxic wasteland try to remember this thread. And your proof that this is all fake is? I don't have to prove it's fake, you never have to prove a negative. Global warming cultists are making a HUGE f'ing claim, not only that human activity is causing dramatic change to the earth's envionment and climate, but that those changes are going to be catostrophic in nature, to the point we need to drastically alter every aspet of our lives to combat them. To say the jury is still out on that is being generous. There have been some data points indicating rising global temperatures, but connecting that to CO2 emissions is still iffy, and in fact the earth's tempature has begun going back down slightly, yet CO2 emissions are higher than ever. The government needs scare tactics to gain power typically, be it the "terrorists" or global warming or some other imaginary threat. How the hell does anyone assume that when it comes to influencing the public through media, scientists would be able to outdo the oil industry, to pull off such a "conspiracy" against the world's most wealthiest industry? I mean, that is impressive. The fact that climate change is becoming more accepted is a victory of our intellectual honesty over the business of media. Despite all the often-paid-for "contrary" opinions on the subject, people are accepting that science has been so successful over the years because they're in the business of openly, publicly scrutinizing themselves better than anyone in the media can. They know what facts are, and they know how to work with them. The way you post, on the other hand, suggests the opposite. Those scientists rolling around in their Bentleys just want more funding from the government so they can pay for their next yacht and support their lavish lifestyles. Its fairly obvious that all of the hundreds of climate scientists are just making shit up to suck the government teat and impose their socialisms on the land of the free. I mean, scientists can't even tell us if eggs cause cancer or not, why should we trust them. I dare say, its impossible for people to do anything to the environment, mother nature is just so much bigger than us, its just common sense. Posts like this make me depressed about the future of humanity. Yes, atmospheric scientists are rolling around in their Bentleys, while the big oil CEOs struggle to get by. Those damn scientists corrupting the government! Seriously, how is it impossible for people to do anything to the government? Try a thought experiment: what would happen to mother nature if humans decided to detonate every atomic bomb currently in our possession? Therefore, it is possible for us to affect mother nature. The question is just how much we are doing so.
Oh god..... why
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
but with those tax cuts they can create more jobs. i mean clearly corporate profits isn't high enough.
seriously people vastly underestimate the shift in management culture on corporate behavior. the way to get rich as a corporate manager is directly tied to your production on the financial market, both in terms of stock prices, and also in the valuation of the company to a potential acquisition. when you have employees with good pay and benefit packages, that's a huge burden not to the company but to its liquid value in the market. you ain't going to hire jack shit unless the demand is such that you need to expand your operations.
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On November 02 2012 06:36 oneofthem wrote:
a half serious proposal would be to get nerds into politics so the corrupting influence of money fails under the need to keep the numbers right.
Good call - Orszag for president!
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Welcome to like three pages ago 
The Economist has Libertarian leanings.
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Do endorsements really matter that much?
Besides that, the type of person who reads the Economist is probably relatively high-information, so I would think most of them have made up their minds already.
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On November 02 2012 06:58 oneofthem wrote:
but with those tax cuts they can create more jobs. i mean clearly corporate profits isn't high enough.
seriously people vastly underestimate the shift in management culture on corporate behavior. the way to get rich as a corporate manager is directly tied to your production on the financial market, both in terms of stock prices, and also in the valuation of the company to a potential acquisition. when you have employees with good pay and benefit packages, that's a huge burden not to the company but to its liquid value in the market. you ain't going to hire jack shit unless the demand is such that you need to expand your operations.
I'm not sure about that. Growth is generally valued at a premium so if managers are deliberately holding back expansion they're only doing themselves and their shareholders a disservice (not impossible).
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Germany357 Posts
On November 02 2012 05:42 Zaqwert wrote:
Man made climate change is a joke and anyone who believes in it is a fool, it's nothing more than a fake crisis designed for governments to increase regulation, taxes, and power, that's why left wingers and socialists scream so much about it.
Feel free to post whatever wikipedia articles and little charts and graphs you want. In 50 years when you are an old man and the earth hasn't turned into a toxic wasteland try to remember this thread.
Nobody ever said that the world would be turning into a "toxic wasteland". Scientists only say that man-made effects on the climat can for example make (sometimes smaller, sometimes bigger) changes to the weather. Aside from extreme weather conditions (where its diffrent to say if climat change makes it better or worse) for example in the field of agricultur it can cost alot of money to adapt these changes.
Some say the costs to adapt to the changing climat will be higher than the costs to prevent it. Well... on this question you can come to your own conclusion, but the existence of man-made impacts on the climat is not up for opinion.
This shows how far away from reallity the conservatives in the USA have gotten. And this is really sad, since I would love to see a strong, intelligent and wise republican party again.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 02 2012 07:21 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 06:58 oneofthem wrote:
but with those tax cuts they can create more jobs. i mean clearly corporate profits isn't high enough.
seriously people vastly underestimate the shift in management culture on corporate behavior. the way to get rich as a corporate manager is directly tied to your production on the financial market, both in terms of stock prices, and also in the valuation of the company to a potential acquisition. when you have employees with good pay and benefit packages, that's a huge burden not to the company but to its liquid value in the market. you ain't going to hire jack shit unless the demand is such that you need to expand your operations. I'm not sure about that. Growth is generally valued at a premium so if managers are deliberately holding back expansion they're only doing themselves and their shareholders a disservice (not impossible).
in cases where expansion is directly related to filling orders or showing a proof of concept kind of thing, then sure, not expanding would be silly. but, there is a distinct drive to keep hiring flexible, avoid tied down costs, and all in all make sure that the company is attractive to liquid capital.
i mean, looking for new growth opportunities is hard. cutting costs is much easier and fits with the prevailing ideology of slimming down.
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On November 02 2012 05:29 XoXiDe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 03:36 nttea wrote:On November 02 2012 02:13 XoXiDe wrote:On November 02 2012 01:58 nttea wrote:On November 02 2012 01:41 armada[sb] wrote:
xDaunt this forum is gonna eat you alive for your arrogancy if you're wrong. If you're right you should get some sort of icon. A prophetic one. Was pretty much prepared to laugh in xDaunts face a month or so ago... though something got stuck in my throat seeing these laters polls^^ it shouldn't even be a close race i swear! Obama is a piece of shit in my opinion because he promises change then does jack shit, right wing calls him radical in some fucking way even though his policies are like bush -0.00001 but how the fuck does voting romney in any way make sense when obama's problem is already being too right wing?! I obviously know nothing about people or politics....  Whether you like him or not, agree with his policies or not, Obama has done quite a lot of jack shit. If you think he hasn't done anything or changed anything you are uninformed. If you are from outside the U.S. I understand your concerns might be more international issues which really haven't changed much. I get the point you are referencing perhaps war policy and Bush era policies, and use of drones. However, the biggest jack shit was getting health care legislation passed, something that has been attempted for decades with no success, it's a historical achievement here in the U.S.. Whether you think it is good or bad is not the issue, he's done quite a lot of things. You also have to accept the reality that it takes two to tango and the Republicans haven't exactly helped him along the way. These last four years he has done things that will shape the long term future of the U.S.. Again, regardless if people think they will be good or not from their own point of views is a different matter, and people within the U.S. probably have different priorities than someone from another country looking in, such as health care, the economy, lgbt issues, immigration, energy, gun rights, so on and so forth. Now i don't know everything obama has done, but assuming healthcare reform was his biggest thing? Jack shit in my opinion, so filled with compromises that the insurance companies probably can't wait for it to take full effect so they can earn even more money. Sure more people will get covered which is a good thing but i highly doubt it will keep you from getting robbed blind. Now you might claim he had to deal with obstructionist republicans but he wasn't pushing very hard for any real changes like single payer anyway. He even LOWERED the fucking taxes and republicans are crying like he's the black Lenin. The whole thing is surreal to me, Barack Obama should be the right wing alternative. I understand what you're saying about health care being watered down and not achieving real change, I feel the same way as far as preferring a single payer system without the watered down amendments and changes. Calling it jack shit given the political realities of the American system is a bit harsh. It is something to build upon and tweaked in the future. The bill would have been dead on arrival if he pushed for a single payer or anything other than what he got. He got those extra votes because Democrats in his own party couldn't go farther, and a few Republicans couldn't or wouldn't compromise anymore. Of course the question is, if his supporters would rather he fight and lose, or get something done that can be improved? I"m glad he did what he did, and I think the majority of reasonable people (supporters) would agree. I understand the criticism as far as being disappointed for whatever reason, he campaigned on change, everyone campaigns on change, but placing unreal expectations and chastising a president for not accomplishing the unattainable is a bit unfair. Of course you can do that but that doesn't get anybody anywhere ignoring the reality of the situation. Getting things done takes more than just the president.
I concede calling obama's efforts "doing jack shit" might have been unfair... Still i think he actually got pretty much what he wanted, he's just a moderate after all and that's why republicans calling him radical and liberals who want real change defending him is so infuriating to me. If he had the ability to introduce single-payer or at least something close do you really think he would? And I'm not talking just about healthcare here, he's incredibly half-republican on pretty much every fucking issue.
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On November 02 2012 07:37 nttea wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 05:29 XoXiDe wrote:On November 02 2012 03:36 nttea wrote:On November 02 2012 02:13 XoXiDe wrote:On November 02 2012 01:58 nttea wrote:On November 02 2012 01:41 armada[sb] wrote:
xDaunt this forum is gonna eat you alive for your arrogancy if you're wrong. If you're right you should get some sort of icon. A prophetic one. Was pretty much prepared to laugh in xDaunts face a month or so ago... though something got stuck in my throat seeing these laters polls^^ it shouldn't even be a close race i swear! Obama is a piece of shit in my opinion because he promises change then does jack shit, right wing calls him radical in some fucking way even though his policies are like bush -0.00001 but how the fuck does voting romney in any way make sense when obama's problem is already being too right wing?! I obviously know nothing about people or politics.... Whether you like him or not, agree with his policies or not, Obama has done quite a lot of jack shit. If you think he hasn't done anything or changed anything you are uninformed. If you are from outside the U.S. I understand your concerns might be more international issues which really haven't changed much. I get the point you are referencing perhaps war policy and Bush era policies, and use of drones. However, the biggest jack shit was getting health care legislation passed, something that has been attempted for decades with no success, it's a historical achievement here in the U.S.. Whether you think it is good or bad is not the issue, he's done quite a lot of things. You also have to accept the reality that it takes two to tango and the Republicans haven't exactly helped him along the way. These last four years he has done things that will shape the long term future of the U.S.. Again, regardless if people think they will be good or not from their own point of views is a different matter, and people within the U.S. probably have different priorities than someone from another country looking in, such as health care, the economy, lgbt issues, immigration, energy, gun rights, so on and so forth. Now i don't know everything obama has done, but assuming healthcare reform was his biggest thing? Jack shit in my opinion, so filled with compromises that the insurance companies probably can't wait for it to take full effect so they can earn even more money. Sure more people will get covered which is a good thing but i highly doubt it will keep you from getting robbed blind. Now you might claim he had to deal with obstructionist republicans but he wasn't pushing very hard for any real changes like single payer anyway. He even LOWERED the fucking taxes and republicans are crying like he's the black Lenin. The whole thing is surreal to me, Barack Obama should be the right wing alternative. I understand what you're saying about health care being watered down and not achieving real change, I feel the same way as far as preferring a single payer system without the watered down amendments and changes. Calling it jack shit given the political realities of the American system is a bit harsh. It is something to build upon and tweaked in the future. The bill would have been dead on arrival if he pushed for a single payer or anything other than what he got. He got those extra votes because Democrats in his own party couldn't go farther, and a few Republicans couldn't or wouldn't compromise anymore. Of course the question is, if his supporters would rather he fight and lose, or get something done that can be improved? I"m glad he did what he did, and I think the majority of reasonable people (supporters) would agree. I understand the criticism as far as being disappointed for whatever reason, he campaigned on change, everyone campaigns on change, but placing unreal expectations and chastising a president for not accomplishing the unattainable is a bit unfair. Of course you can do that but that doesn't get anybody anywhere ignoring the reality of the situation. Getting things done takes more than just the president. I concede calling obama's efforts "doing jack shit" might have been unfair... Still i think he actually got pretty much what he wanted, he's just a moderate after all and that's why republicans calling him radical and liberals who want real change defending him is so infuriating to me. If he had the ability to introduce single-payer or at least something close do you really think he would? And I'm not talking just about healthcare here, he's incredibly half-republican on pretty much every fucking issue.
Obama is most definitely not a moderate. I'm not sure who told you that, but it's not true. His record in the Senate was on the far left end. His inability to implement far left policies does not equate to a change in his personal opinions.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
in glorious europe far left obama would be a centrist
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538 has Obama back to ~80% win and 300 electoral votes. It seems that Obama has regained most of the ground he lost from his first debate performance.
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On November 02 2012 07:42 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 07:37 nttea wrote:On November 02 2012 05:29 XoXiDe wrote:On November 02 2012 03:36 nttea wrote:On November 02 2012 02:13 XoXiDe wrote:On November 02 2012 01:58 nttea wrote:On November 02 2012 01:41 armada[sb] wrote:
xDaunt this forum is gonna eat you alive for your arrogancy if you're wrong. If you're right you should get some sort of icon. A prophetic one. Was pretty much prepared to laugh in xDaunts face a month or so ago... though something got stuck in my throat seeing these laters polls^^ it shouldn't even be a close race i swear! Obama is a piece of shit in my opinion because he promises change then does jack shit, right wing calls him radical in some fucking way even though his policies are like bush -0.00001 but how the fuck does voting romney in any way make sense when obama's problem is already being too right wing?! I obviously know nothing about people or politics.... Whether you like him or not, agree with his policies or not, Obama has done quite a lot of jack shit. If you think he hasn't done anything or changed anything you are uninformed. If you are from outside the U.S. I understand your concerns might be more international issues which really haven't changed much. I get the point you are referencing perhaps war policy and Bush era policies, and use of drones. However, the biggest jack shit was getting health care legislation passed, something that has been attempted for decades with no success, it's a historical achievement here in the U.S.. Whether you think it is good or bad is not the issue, he's done quite a lot of things. You also have to accept the reality that it takes two to tango and the Republicans haven't exactly helped him along the way. These last four years he has done things that will shape the long term future of the U.S.. Again, regardless if people think they will be good or not from their own point of views is a different matter, and people within the U.S. probably have different priorities than someone from another country looking in, such as health care, the economy, lgbt issues, immigration, energy, gun rights, so on and so forth. Now i don't know everything obama has done, but assuming healthcare reform was his biggest thing? Jack shit in my opinion, so filled with compromises that the insurance companies probably can't wait for it to take full effect so they can earn even more money. Sure more people will get covered which is a good thing but i highly doubt it will keep you from getting robbed blind. Now you might claim he had to deal with obstructionist republicans but he wasn't pushing very hard for any real changes like single payer anyway. He even LOWERED the fucking taxes and republicans are crying like he's the black Lenin. The whole thing is surreal to me, Barack Obama should be the right wing alternative. I understand what you're saying about health care being watered down and not achieving real change, I feel the same way as far as preferring a single payer system without the watered down amendments and changes. Calling it jack shit given the political realities of the American system is a bit harsh. It is something to build upon and tweaked in the future. The bill would have been dead on arrival if he pushed for a single payer or anything other than what he got. He got those extra votes because Democrats in his own party couldn't go farther, and a few Republicans couldn't or wouldn't compromise anymore. Of course the question is, if his supporters would rather he fight and lose, or get something done that can be improved? I"m glad he did what he did, and I think the majority of reasonable people (supporters) would agree. I understand the criticism as far as being disappointed for whatever reason, he campaigned on change, everyone campaigns on change, but placing unreal expectations and chastising a president for not accomplishing the unattainable is a bit unfair. Of course you can do that but that doesn't get anybody anywhere ignoring the reality of the situation. Getting things done takes more than just the president. I concede calling obama's efforts "doing jack shit" might have been unfair... Still i think he actually got pretty much what he wanted, he's just a moderate after all and that's why republicans calling him radical and liberals who want real change defending him is so infuriating to me. If he had the ability to introduce single-payer or at least something close do you really think he would? And I'm not talking just about healthcare here, he's incredibly half-republican on pretty much every fucking issue. Obama is most definitely not a moderate. I'm not sure who told you that, but it's not true. His record in the Senate was on the far left end. His inability to implement far left policies does not equate to a change in his personal opinions.
Ok so according to wikipedia it seems to me he's pretty much middle of the pack democrat, which is actually to the left of what i expected. But maybe that says more about the democrats at large than about Barack Obama :D
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On November 02 2012 07:42 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 07:37 nttea wrote:On November 02 2012 05:29 XoXiDe wrote:On November 02 2012 03:36 nttea wrote:On November 02 2012 02:13 XoXiDe wrote:On November 02 2012 01:58 nttea wrote:On November 02 2012 01:41 armada[sb] wrote:
xDaunt this forum is gonna eat you alive for your arrogancy if you're wrong. If you're right you should get some sort of icon. A prophetic one. Was pretty much prepared to laugh in xDaunts face a month or so ago... though something got stuck in my throat seeing these laters polls^^ it shouldn't even be a close race i swear! Obama is a piece of shit in my opinion because he promises change then does jack shit, right wing calls him radical in some fucking way even though his policies are like bush -0.00001 but how the fuck does voting romney in any way make sense when obama's problem is already being too right wing?! I obviously know nothing about people or politics.... Whether you like him or not, agree with his policies or not, Obama has done quite a lot of jack shit. If you think he hasn't done anything or changed anything you are uninformed. If you are from outside the U.S. I understand your concerns might be more international issues which really haven't changed much. I get the point you are referencing perhaps war policy and Bush era policies, and use of drones. However, the biggest jack shit was getting health care legislation passed, something that has been attempted for decades with no success, it's a historical achievement here in the U.S.. Whether you think it is good or bad is not the issue, he's done quite a lot of things. You also have to accept the reality that it takes two to tango and the Republicans haven't exactly helped him along the way. These last four years he has done things that will shape the long term future of the U.S.. Again, regardless if people think they will be good or not from their own point of views is a different matter, and people within the U.S. probably have different priorities than someone from another country looking in, such as health care, the economy, lgbt issues, immigration, energy, gun rights, so on and so forth. Now i don't know everything obama has done, but assuming healthcare reform was his biggest thing? Jack shit in my opinion, so filled with compromises that the insurance companies probably can't wait for it to take full effect so they can earn even more money. Sure more people will get covered which is a good thing but i highly doubt it will keep you from getting robbed blind. Now you might claim he had to deal with obstructionist republicans but he wasn't pushing very hard for any real changes like single payer anyway. He even LOWERED the fucking taxes and republicans are crying like he's the black Lenin. The whole thing is surreal to me, Barack Obama should be the right wing alternative. I understand what you're saying about health care being watered down and not achieving real change, I feel the same way as far as preferring a single payer system without the watered down amendments and changes. Calling it jack shit given the political realities of the American system is a bit harsh. It is something to build upon and tweaked in the future. The bill would have been dead on arrival if he pushed for a single payer or anything other than what he got. He got those extra votes because Democrats in his own party couldn't go farther, and a few Republicans couldn't or wouldn't compromise anymore. Of course the question is, if his supporters would rather he fight and lose, or get something done that can be improved? I"m glad he did what he did, and I think the majority of reasonable people (supporters) would agree. I understand the criticism as far as being disappointed for whatever reason, he campaigned on change, everyone campaigns on change, but placing unreal expectations and chastising a president for not accomplishing the unattainable is a bit unfair. Of course you can do that but that doesn't get anybody anywhere ignoring the reality of the situation. Getting things done takes more than just the president. I concede calling obama's efforts "doing jack shit" might have been unfair... Still i think he actually got pretty much what he wanted, he's just a moderate after all and that's why republicans calling him radical and liberals who want real change defending him is so infuriating to me. If he had the ability to introduce single-payer or at least something close do you really think he would? And I'm not talking just about healthcare here, he's incredibly half-republican on pretty much every fucking issue. Obama is most definitely not a moderate. I'm not sure who told you that, but it's not true. His record in the Senate was on the far left end. His inability to implement far left policies does not equate to a change in his personal opinions.
As president he's been fairly moderate. Certainly left, but not extreme. Far more in the middle than Romney was prior to Oct. 3.
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Romney fucked himself in Ohio with the Jeep bullshit this week. I'm ready to call it for Obama.
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On November 02 2012 06:16 ZeaL. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 06:03 Leporello wrote:On November 02 2012 05:54 Zaqwert wrote:On November 02 2012 05:47 farvacola wrote:On November 02 2012 05:42 Zaqwert wrote:
Man made climate change is a joke and anyone who believes in it is a fool, it's nothing more than a fake crisis designed for governments to increase regulation, taxes, and power, that's why left wingers and socialists scream so much about it.
Feel free to post whatever wikipedia articles and little charts and graphs you want. In 50 years when you are an old man and the earth hasn't turned into a toxic wasteland try to remember this thread. And your proof that this is all fake is? I don't have to prove it's fake, you never have to prove a negative. Global warming cultists are making a HUGE f'ing claim, not only that human activity is causing dramatic change to the earth's envionment and climate, but that those changes are going to be catostrophic in nature, to the point we need to drastically alter every aspet of our lives to combat them. To say the jury is still out on that is being generous. There have been some data points indicating rising global temperatures, but connecting that to CO2 emissions is still iffy, and in fact the earth's tempature has begun going back down slightly, yet CO2 emissions are higher than ever. The government needs scare tactics to gain power typically, be it the "terrorists" or global warming or some other imaginary threat. How the hell does anyone assume that when it comes to influencing the public through media, scientists would be able to outdo the oil industry, to pull off such a "conspiracy" against the world's most wealthiest industry? I mean, that is impressive. The fact that climate change is becoming more accepted is a victory of our intellectual honesty over the business of media. Despite all the often-paid-for "contrary" opinions on the subject, people are accepting that science has been so successful over the years because they're in the business of openly, publicly scrutinizing themselves better than anyone in the media can. They know what facts are, and they know how to work with them. The way you post, on the other hand, suggests the opposite. Those scientists rolling around in their Bentleys just want more funding from the government so they can pay for their next yacht and support their lavish lifestyles. Its fairly obvious that all of the hundreds of climate scientists are just making shit up to suck the government teat and impose their socialisms on the land of the free. I mean, scientists can't even tell us if eggs cause cancer or not, why should we trust them. I dare say, its impossible for people to do anything to the environment, mother nature is just so much bigger than us, its just common sense.
I agree with ZeaL. People don't want to think for themselves in my opinion, thus they read the media and suddenly think scientists are all saints and big corporate hard working men are the devils and the demons. Scientists are nothing more, nothing less than humans with desires themselves. I don't see scientists working hard to prevent disasters like hurricane Sandy, so just forget about it.
My common sense tell me I should not trust people that make up BS about the weather and us destroying the planet, when sometimes it's clearly the opposite.
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7.0% is too low, BLS's will be higher I'm sure.
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EPT
