EPTI mean, he is like the boss justice, and the Supreme Court says it is constitutional, I'm fine.
Though I just lost $500 on a bet
The Affordable Healthcare Act in the U.S. Supreme Court -…
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This topic is not about the American Invasion of Iraq. Stop. - Page 23 | ||
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Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
I mean, he is like the boss justice, and the Supreme Court says it is constitutional, I'm fine. Though I just lost $500 on a bet | ||
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ackbar
United States94 Posts
On June 29 2012 09:53 white_horse wrote: The problem is not a lack of healthcare reform. The problem is a cultural and societal failure among American citizens to eat a healthy and balanced diet, which is the main reason why so many people get diabetes and cancer and run up healthcare costs. Until we do something about all the dumb fat people who don't know how to take care of themselves, healthcare will continue to cost the US a lot of money. You're not wrong. Poor health, and no incentive to be healthy, absolutely contribute to health care costs. | ||
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carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
On June 29 2012 10:05 DannyJ wrote: Man, i thought it was pretty baseless to attack a man for simply getting the date wrong... but then i heard the whole "should live in infamy part". That's pretty bad... Yeah, comparing this to Pearl Harbor is a terrible thing to do in order to try to convince me that this law is a bad law. That guy is indeed pretty bad... | ||
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ackbar
United States94 Posts
On June 29 2012 09:59 carloselcoco wrote: You sir are the most medically uneducated person I have seen in this page... That is not a reason why people get cancer... Please educate yourself before posting senseless stuff again. Also, most people who suffer from diabetes do not have it due to eating unhealthy!!! Lastly, fat people at are a higher risk of developing diabetes, however, most of them do not develop it... Next time you decide to post something related to medicine, please educate yourself. Wrong. Most type-2 adult-onset diabetes is directly correlated with poor diet. Most type 2 sufferers can actually cure themselves of diabetes by engaging in an active lifestyle and losing weight. | ||
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carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
On June 29 2012 10:09 ackbar wrote: Wrong. Most type-2 adult-onset diabetes is directly correlated with poor diet. Most type 2 sufferers can actually cure themselves of diabetes by engaging in an active lifestyle and losing weight. Please read up and educate yourself before telling a medical student he is wrong... http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/type-1/ http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/type-2/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_mellitus_type_2 Most people who develop diabetes are not fat and carry on a healthy lifestyle. There are several factors that predetermine the risk of someone developing diabetes. Yes, poor healthy lifestyles do place people at risk of developing diabetes, however, it is not the only factor. Please stop talking nonsense when you do not know anything. Lastly, stop saying that it can be cured... IT DOES NOT HAVE A CURE! It stays with you for life, just like cancer does... | ||
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Chunhyang
Bangladesh1389 Posts
I don't get the uproar about socialized healthcare. If there's anything that should be socialized, it's healthcare. | ||
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Chunhyang
Bangladesh1389 Posts
On June 29 2012 03:20 CaptainCrush wrote: Everyone keeps saying this, but what you guys fail to realize is that we already know this, and some of us want to keep it that way. Under socialized medicine, sure you can pick your doc, but all the docs recieve the same amount of money from the government for their services. I personally want a free market society, even if it is more expensive because I want to be able to go to a doc who is willing to put forth the extra effort. Think about it, why would doctors or care givers go the extra mile when they all get paid the same thing? The only time they might do that is if they are in danger of losing buisness all together. I'm sorry some people cant afford it but at some point its no longer my job to provide for them or even care. It sounds cold but I didnt work my ass off in college, nor do I continue to work my ass off so that some lazy sack of shit can get the healthcare that they dont deserve on my nickle. This law not only provides health care to those individuals but also exempts them from the tax if their income is below a certain threshold.... Did I mention that Obama has elected 3 supreme court justices during his term? This is socialism of the highest degree, how can anyone be excited over this!?!? You sound like you think you owe society and other people nothing for who you've become. It's just my opinion, but I think people give themselves too much credit for who they are | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On June 29 2012 09:04 Romantic wrote: You don't understand what insurance is. Insurance is not "money in a pot that sick people take money out of". Insurance is pooling money to insure yourself against risk of future large costs. It has only been government intervention that has changed this. If you also can't see that the entire point was to give a huge gift to people with preexisting conditions and make other people pay for it then I don't even know where to start. Nope. You're only looking at it from the consumer perspective. You can certainly make a "profit" off of health insurance if you get unexpectedly sick. The insurance company pools the money from all it's funders, skims some off the top, and gives it to the sick people it's covering. That's actually how it works. To say it's "insuring against risk" or something is just putting fancy words on top of what is actually happening with the money. There is no way you can "just pay for yourself" with health insurance. It literally makes no sense. The fact is that "pre-existing conditions" was bullshit from back to front. The healthcare companies used it to get out of paying people their dues or refusing from covering people who actually need healthcare. That's a serious problem. When healthcare companies are not covering people who actually need healthcare, there's a problem. They aren't doing their job. It doesn't matter how you rationalize it. I don't care that it isn't "fair" to the healthcare companies or the people's premiums. If the people who need healthcare can't get it then the system is broken. | ||
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STYDawn
137 Posts
main pts: Extra "taxes" Extra premiums Forced to buy insurance Worse healthcare because people who pays for health care dont get priority over people who dont pay | ||
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carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
On June 29 2012 10:49 STYDawn wrote: What I have to say about Healthcare can be summarized in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRpRl1MWXoQ&feature=g-user-u main pts: Extra "taxes" Extra premiums Forced to buy insurance Worse healthcare because people who pays for health care dont get priority over people who dont pay Your last point does not even make sense... Everyone has to pay... I find if funny how people keep on saying stuff without actually educating themselves. You are paying in taxes already for people who do not currently have insurance. All this does is that it will now save you from having to pay for those who do not have insurance. If you already have insurance you are going to get a rebate in August from your insurance FYI. You are not forced to buy insurance. You can select not to, but will have to pay a tax equivalent to $95 or 1% of your salary. Whichever is higher. There is no tax if you have insurance by 2014. Premiums went up last year by 7%. They were estimated to go up this year 9% with Obamacare. Without Obamacare they were estimated to go up 12%. All of your points are invalid. | ||
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Epocalypse
Canada319 Posts
On June 29 2012 11:08 carloselcoco wrote: Your last point does not even make sense... Everyone has to pay... I find if funny how people keep on saying stuff without actually educating themselves. You are paying in taxes already for people who do not currently have insurance. All this does is that it will now save you from having to pay for those who do not have insurance. If you already have insurance you are going to get a rebate in August from your insurance FYI. You are not forced to buy insurance. You can select not to, but will have to pay a tax equivalent to $95 or 1% of your salary. Whichever is higher. There is no tax if you have insurance by 2014. Premiums went up last year by 7%. They were estimated to go up this year 9% with Obamacare. Without Obamacare they were estimated to go up 12%. All of your points are invalid. Why introduce so many difficulties when you can simply earn a living and pay for your own. "Worse healthcare because people who pays for health care dont get priority over people who dont pay" Good point... because it will end up being the rich who pay for the majority of health care costs, so his point is valid since the system will be blind to who gets care first... meaning everyone will have to line up and wait for their ration. | ||
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ackbar
United States94 Posts
On June 29 2012 10:26 carloselcoco wrote: Please read up and educate yourself before telling a medical student he is wrong... http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/type-1/ http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/type-2/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_mellitus_type_2 Most people who develop diabetes are not fat and carry on a healthy lifestyle. There are several factors that predetermine the risk of someone developing diabetes. Yes, poor healthy lifestyles do place people at risk of developing diabetes, however, it is not the only factor. Please stop talking nonsense when you do not know anything. Lastly, stop saying that it can be cured... IT DOES NOT HAVE A CURE! It stays with you for life, just like cancer does... Here you go: "Type 2 Diabetes: Primary Causes Being obese or overweight puts you at significant risk for developing type 2 diabetes. Four out of five people with type 2 diabetes are overweight or obese." From: http://www.everydayhealth.com/diabetes/type2/understanding/what-causes-type-2-diabetes.aspx And FROM YOUR OWN ARTICLE: "Obesity is thought to be the primary cause of type 2 diabetes in people who are genetically predisposed to the disease." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_mellitus_type_2 So, yeah. I concede that it's not as simple as diet/excercise. But please don't tell me to 'educate myself' then post an article that completely validates my point. | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
The real world shows that socialised medicine results in lower costs and better health outcomes for almost everyone. Free market fantasists ignore reality simply denying this fact, side step reality by going off on obscure philosophical tangents that prove that what we see in reality MUST be wrong or resort to moralising about how hard they work and how it's all about the lazy poor trying to take their shit. It's all dogma pure and simple. You've been duped and they used your vanity to trap you. It's fascinating as a testament to the power of a concerted propaganda effort to manipulate apparently intelligent individuals to hold a position which goes against their own, and pretty much everyone's, interests. | ||
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Zooper31
United States5710 Posts
On June 29 2012 11:24 Epocalypse wrote: Why introduce so many difficulties when you can simply earn a living and pay for your own. "Worse healthcare because people who pays for health care dont get priority over people who dont pay" Good point... because it will end up being the rich who pay for the majority of health care costs, so his point is valid since the system will be blind to who gets care first... meaning everyone will have to line up and wait for their ration. Why are people mad about waiting in lines? That means people are actually getting medical help that they need. If shit really gets bad and they actually have to ration supplies then supply and demand will kick in and producers will make more stuff till it balances out. Would you rather not wait in line and force people out of the hospital and away from doctors? | ||
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Epocalypse
Canada319 Posts
http://bit.ly/N9wWMr He lists some stats... but obviously does not cite himself.\ Says he still wants to introduce reform but in his style. He even claims that people with pre-existing insurance will laws ensuring that they have access to insurance. Promises to make sure every American, with job or not, with savings or not, responsible or not, will have access to affordable health care. Then claims he will lower the cost of health care... but all of history shows that when government gets involved, costs go up. How does he pretend to make these things possible? How knows... What is known is that neither candidate has any clue what "rights" mean. Example: Both are happy to dictate how you should live your life, what you should do with your money instead of leaving that decision with you. Ayn Rand on Rights: http://bit.ly/MaHf8A | ||
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ackbar
United States94 Posts
On June 29 2012 10:49 STYDawn wrote: What I have to say about Healthcare can be summarized in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRpRl1MWXoQ&feature=g-user-u main pts: Extra "taxes" Extra premiums Forced to buy insurance Worse healthcare because people who pays for health care dont get priority over people who dont pay Premiums will go down since there is a larger base of people paying into the system. One of the main reasons premiums go up (and have done so steadily for the last decade) is that uninsured people still get health care - they just dont pay for it. And they get health care at the most expensive dispensary of health care - the emergency room. My wife works at a hospital, and assures me there is a class of people who go to the ER because they cant be denied treatment. They show up, get their meds or whatever, then leave and stiff the hospital on the bill. And that bill gets passed on to the rest of us. Our current system is why premiums rise. Yes, you will have to buy insurance if you don't have it. But guess what? I'm sick of subsidizing the uninsured. The "worse healthcare" concept is more of a scare tactic with no real data to back it up. If you look at countries that have health care systems that everyone has access to, they tend to have BETTER results than the US (the only 1st world country that doesn't provide HC as a right) and pay much less for it. Again, we are the only first world country to not have some form of universal health care - yet we pay significantly more for HC than anyone else, and get worse results. Angry middle aged guy yelling at camera can't really argue with that. | ||
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OptimusYale
Korea (South)1005 Posts
Look, you may have to pay extra taxes, you may have a slight drop in healthcare (though the private option is still there), but I thought most of america were christians. What happened to love thy neighbor? What happened to helping people because it's the christian thing to do? When people are protesting that gay marriage is against christian morals, they then say that healthcare that EVERYONE is entitled to is unconsitutional even though helping the poor when you're in a better situation is a CHRISTIAN value, not socialist, but CHRISTIAN. I mean, think of the story of the good samaritan. he helped that guy, picked him up off the ground and gave him free health care, got him back up off his feet and helped him survive. That's a christian parable taught by Jesus christ (obviously if you believe that)....in America the good samaritan would have taken him to the hospital, pushed him in saying he was found on the road, no ID and not sure if he has insurance. The hospital would take him in, wait till the samaritan leaves and then wheel him out the fire escape to die on the streets. Don't be so hypocritical America. | ||
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STYDawn
137 Posts
On June 29 2012 11:08 carloselcoco wrote: Your last point does not even make sense... Everyone has to pay... I find if funny how people keep on saying stuff without actually educating themselves. You are paying in taxes already for people who do not currently have insurance. All this does is that it will now save you from having to pay for those who do not have insurance. If you already have insurance you are going to get a rebate in August from your insurance FYI. You are not forced to buy insurance. You can select not to, but will have to pay a tax equivalent to $95 or 1% of your salary. Whichever is higher. There is no tax if you have insurance by 2014. Premiums went up last year by 7%. They were estimated to go up this year 9% with Obamacare. Without Obamacare they were estimated to go up 12%. All of your points are invalid. 1: Everyone has to pay, technically i guess they do. Sorry, i guess my wording was bit misleading, what i meant was that people don't exactly have a penalty for going to the doctors office every day. 2: Just to troll: Im a teenager, so I technically don't. But all joking aside, people do pay for people who don't. I find this Welfare society somewhat disgusting. There are people who go to the emergency room, get operated on, and don't pay. 3. 1% of someones salary, the average middle class income is 60k. thats $600! So its buy for some crappy service, and don't buy and get penalized heavily. 4. Your pt 3 is a tax. Buy or get punished=TAX. 5. Premiums, as in private healthcare premiums? look, Im not against government offering healthcare, but I am against government forcing people to rely on it. Obamacare can prove to be an effective way to compete with healthcare companies. But really, it goes back to having to pay for crap service even if you don't want to. | ||
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Kyrao
United States161 Posts
On June 29 2012 10:26 carloselcoco wrote: Please read up and educate yourself before telling a medical student he is wrong... http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/type-1/ http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/type-2/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_mellitus_type_2 Most people who develop diabetes are not fat and carry on a healthy lifestyle. There are several factors that predetermine the risk of someone developing diabetes. Yes, poor healthy lifestyles do place people at risk of developing diabetes, however, it is not the only factor. Please stop talking nonsense when you do not know anything. Lastly, stop saying that it can be cured... IT DOES NOT HAVE A CURE! It stays with you for life, just like cancer does... As a fellow medical student, I am slightly embarassed for you, while at the same time curious where you are going to school... | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On June 29 2012 10:47 DoubleReed wrote: Nope. You're only looking at it from the consumer perspective. You can certainly make a "profit" off of health insurance if you get unexpectedly sick. The insurance company pools the money from all it's funders, skims some off the top, and gives it to the sick people it's covering. That's actually how it works. To say it's "insuring against risk" or something is just putting fancy words on top of what is actually happening with the money. There is no way you can "just pay for yourself" with health insurance. It literally makes no sense. The fact is that "pre-existing conditions" was bullshit from back to front. The healthcare companies used it to get out of paying people their dues or refusing from covering people who actually need healthcare. That's a serious problem. When healthcare companies are not covering people who actually need healthcare, there's a problem. They aren't doing their job. It doesn't matter how you rationalize it. I don't care that it isn't "fair" to the healthcare companies or the people's premiums. If the people who need healthcare can't get it then the system is broken. Healthcare is not health insurance. You do not need health insurance to get healthcare. No pre-existing conditions is the norm for all types of insurance. You cannot insure a boat that has already sunk! Insurance premiums are not calculated based on current costs, they are calculated based on predicted future costs. So it is indeed a form of risk management and not a pay as you go collective health payment scheme. | ||
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