On March 06 2012 16:37 Gustis wrote: "The National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance immediately condemned the exhibit..." How's that even possible to have such an association? Could anyone elaborate why this is not retarded?
as this thread shows, a majority of people seem to think it's ok to make fat people feel bad about themselves. someone even argued that fat people should be bullied until they start losing weight. lol. you really don't see how an association like that can make sense?
With extremely miniscule examples of real illnesses(hormone deficiencies etc.), obesity equals eating more calories than using up. In your sense, how come we don't have The National Association to Advance Alcoholism Acceptance or The National Association to Advance Cigarette Smoking Acceptance? Because just like the chronic alcoholics and smokers, the obese people are choosing to live an unhealthy and socially/economically damaging lifestyle not only for themselves, but for other people.
have you been an alcoholic, a smoker or obese? if not, you really dont know what you're talking about. none of these is a choice like "today i'm going for a walk".
Bullshit. I was obese but have since lost over 50 pounds last year, and I'm still working hard towards losing more. My dad was a chronic smoker who now quit because he found the motivation to do so. Sure it's fucking hard to give up smoking, eating or alcohol, but it's still a choice. You just have to work your ass off (no pun intended) to get where you want to go.
like you said... IT'S FUCKING HARD. and statistically almost no one can change these habbits.
"bullshit", i only asked whether you've been in such a situation yourself. ohhhh such a bullshit question. god you're full of shit. hope you gain all your weight again like i did <3
i'm out guys. arguing is so no fun at all :p
The part where you said it's not a choice is the part that's bullshit. Something being hard doesn't make it impossible, doesn't mean you should just give up on trying. Hiding behind something "it's not a choice" is the problem here. You're just using that as a cop out to not try.
On March 06 2012 16:40 Defacer wrote: Imagine this scenario:
You happen to have a genetically fat kid. It happens. Some kids are just naturally big (imagine InControl as an eight year old).
You and your kid go to Disney World with a bunch of friends and their families to Disney World. It's your kid's dream, and even though Disney World is as expensive as fuck you want to be an awesome parent and give him/her the best, care-free, guilt-free day of their life.
Then you run into this feel-bad attraction.
I know, I know -- it's important to educate kids (and parents) about good nutrition. But if you're a parent, or have worked in the family attraction industry, basically you know the reason why you go to Disney World is because it's a safe environment that will make your kid happy as hell.
I don't really care about political correctness, but there's a time and place for making people question their lifestyle.
TLDR; Let fat kids have their special day in magically happy-sappy make-believe land. They have the rest of the year to feel shitty about themselves.
This guy gets it, it would have likely hurt Disney if they kept it for the exact reason imo. Also "American association for fat acceptation" or w.e it was called officially took the nr 1 spot on my "Americans... " list leaving vegetable pizza and the gun/pro war associations miles behind.
And if we are on the subject... why aren't kids thought the dangers of being overweight from a young age by school/parents in the first place if its such a big deal in the USA ?
On March 06 2012 18:15 Bobgrimly wrote: People who bring metabolism into the discussion are silly. Its not about comparing yourself to anyone else. Your PERSONAL intake should be equal to or less than your PERSONAL requirement to maintain or lose weight.
Its not a case of that guy ate 50 hamburgers and looks good, so I should be able to as well. How stupid can you be.
If you're referring to me, I wasn't using it as an excuse at all. I was just pointing it out as an observation. I really am amazed at how much my friend can eat and be completely skinny. It shows that variations in metabolism do exist- I can't really think of any other way to explain it as this guy doesn't exercise either.
Anyway I already said in my post that the vast majority of obese people are simply eating too much junk food so I don't know why you're getting so hostile.
On March 06 2012 18:15 Bobgrimly wrote: People who bring metabolism into the discussion are silly. Its not about comparing yourself to anyone else. Your PERSONAL intake should be equal to or less than your PERSONAL requirement to maintain or lose weight.
Its not a case of that guy ate 50 hamburgers and looks good, so I should be able to as well. How stupid can you be.
If you're referring to me, I wasn't using it as an excuse at all. I was just pointing it out as an observation. I really am amazed at how much my friend can eat and be completely skinny. It shows that variations in metabolism do exist- I can't really think of any other way to explain it as this guy doesn't exercise either.
Anyway I already said in my post that the vast majority of obese people are simply eating too much junk food so I don't know why you're getting so hostile.
Not hostile at you. Just my sisters use that excuse a lot. They got the "bad metabolism". But I see what they eat and know how they exercise... or don't.
Its not about metabolism. Yes that determines how much a person can eat without gaining weight but it doesn't stop you losing weight.
This is all a travesty backed by McDonalds and other food corporations. People need to stop finding retarded excuses why their life sucks, they need to stop being insulted by objective criticism, stop whining, sitting around, watching commercials, buying shit they don't need and just start living. I'd argue that "living" in its true sense absolutely involves daily exhaustion due to exercise or at least copious amounts of sex.
This.
Man you don't really get it. The human body is designed to be used. The whole hormonal profile of a person who excercises is different and better than the one of the person sitting on his ass (no matter if fat or thin). Exhausting your body once per day or per two days contributes to increased serotonin levels. Aka, you feel happy. No, no trust me, tired but happy.
Informing children about obesity is the correct way to go. Except from the rare disorder / hormonal problem that forces one to be fat, it is a matter of choice and free will. I agree that it is not as simple as "eat less" because every body has a different pattern in its metabolism. And I agree that a few people may just eat junk food for their whole lives and never get fat, while others strive with daily excercise and good nutrition (and btw healty food tastes better). But that is exactly that. The exception. Rest of us gotta work for it. And it is worth every drop of sweat.
There is no reason to try and hide the truth from the children. Go fat = less self esteem = lost oportunities in life (usually). And a whole lot of health problems. It is not a social tabboo, obese people are everywhere (and we are talking about the US now, so...). But the kids and most importantly their parents must make a conscious decision to abort junk food. To cook for themselves healthy and to live, instead of trying to feel better by "fat accepting bullshit".
So get out there, exhaust your body every couple of days, while eating healthier and you will be amazed by how good you will feel. And after you do that teach your kids to do it as well. Shoving one's head in the sand (or lasagna ) does not eradicate the issue of both self esteem and health problems obese people have. Educating and therefore making people have more chances to do something about it, does help.
On March 06 2012 17:39 VTPerfect wrote: Pretty fail arguments from the pro exhibit side. Calorie input vs output is an extreme gross oversimplification of the biological processes that aren't even close to being fully understood. Doctors aren't going to say its your fault you got Arthritis, they aren't going to say its your fault you got a brain tumor and they aren't going to say its your fault you got Fat because there simply isn't enough evidence to conclusively say anything.
Really tired of posters using arguments like, "they are just lazy", "they need to eat less" "they need some tough love". Its pretty much the same flawed arguments about non-korean starcraft players (i find the term foreigner offensive). What exactly is your agenda anyways...
Except that you are 100% wrong. Barring some highly complicated health defect, it is biologically impossible to continue gaining fat when you consume low amounts of healthy, balanced foods and exercise daily.
It is true that you can't simply starve yourself to fitness. But if you get off your ass and actually use your body for what it was supposed to be used, you will not only lose excess fat but gain muscle and that is a medical and sports fact.
This is all a travesty backed by McDonalds and other food corporations. People need to stop finding retarded excuses why their life sucks, they need to stop being insulted by objective criticism, stop whining, sitting around, watching commercials, buying shit they don't need and just start living. I'd argue that "living" in its true sense absolutely involves daily exhaustion due to exercise or at least copious amounts of sex.
If i'm 100% wrong why is it two people can consume the same food, excercise a similar amount while one person is 20 pounds overweight and the other is in the healthy range and neither person has these "highly complicated health defects". Guess what like the doctors said there is obviously genetic factors and/or unknown factors at play here. Contrary to popular belief people aren't magically born all the same. I happend to have inherited a few extra genes that seem to increase intelligence. But you would think I was an asshole if i were to go around calling everyone else stupid. So how is it ok for normal weight people to go around calling overweight people fat. The reason Organizations to promote fat acceptance exist is to educate people that hold your beliefs in the latest scientific research. You seem really vested in being "right" but the irony in such a paradigm is funny.
On March 06 2012 17:39 VTPerfect wrote: Pretty fail arguments from the pro exhibit side. Calorie input vs output is an extreme gross oversimplification of the biological processes that aren't even close to being fully understood. Doctors aren't going to say its your fault you got Arthritis, they aren't going to say its your fault you got a brain tumor and they aren't going to say its your fault you got Fat because there simply isn't enough evidence to conclusively say anything.
Really tired of posters using arguments like, "they are just lazy", "they need to eat less" "they need some tough love". Its pretty much the same flawed arguments about non-korean starcraft players (i find the term foreigner offensive). What exactly is your agenda anyways...
Except that you are 100% wrong. Barring some highly complicated health defect, it is biologically impossible to continue gaining fat when you consume low amounts of healthy, balanced foods and exercise daily.
It is true that you can't simply starve yourself to fitness. But if you get off your ass and actually use your body for what it was supposed to be used, you will not only lose excess fat but gain muscle and that is a medical and sports fact.
This is all a travesty backed by McDonalds and other food corporations. People need to stop finding retarded excuses why their life sucks, they need to stop being insulted by objective criticism, stop whining, sitting around, watching commercials, buying shit they don't need and just start living. I'd argue that "living" in its true sense absolutely involves daily exhaustion due to exercise or at least copious amounts of sex.
If i'm 100% wrong why is it two people can consume the same food, excercise a similar amount while one person is 20 pounds overweight and the other is in the healthy range and neither person has these "highly complicated health defects". Guess what like the doctors said there is obviously genetic factors and/or unknown factors at play here. Contrary to popular belief people aren't magically born all the same. I happend to have inherited a few extra genes that seem to increase intelligence. But you would think I was an asshole if i were to go around calling everyone else stupid. So how is it ok for normal weight people to go around calling overweight people fat. The reason Organizations to promote fat acceptance exist is to educate people that hold your beliefs in the latest scientific research. You seem really vested in being "right" but the irony in such a paradigm is funny.
People have different needs. Everyone should eat as much as his body needs, not everyone should eat the same amount which is why some people gain weight when they eat 2 big macs, and others don't . If you eat more then your body needs, you gain weight, if you eat less, then you lose weight. It really is pretty simple.
On March 06 2012 16:40 Defacer wrote: Imagine this scenario:
You happen to have a genetically fat kid. It happens. Some kids are just naturally big (imagine InControl as an eight year old).
You and your kid go to Disney World with a bunch of friends and their families to Disney World. It's your kid's dream, and even though Disney World is as expensive as fuck you want to be an awesome parent and give him/her the best, care-free, guilt-free day of their life.
Then you run into this feel-bad attraction.
I know, I know -- it's important to educate kids (and parents) about good nutrition. But if you're a parent, or have worked in the family attraction industry, basically you know the reason why you go to Disney World is because it's a safe environment that will make your kid happy as hell.
I don't really care about political correctness, but there's a time and place for making people question their lifestyle.
TLDR; Let fat kids have their special day in magically happy-sappy make-believe land. They have the rest of the year to feel shitty about themselves.
This guy gets it, it would have likely hurt Disney if they kept it for the exact reason imo.
So what we've determined is that, as usual, political correctness has nothing to do with this particular story. Disney didn't like the idea for business reasons, they didn't want fat parents to stop taking their fat kids and their fat wallets to Disney World.
RE political correctness, see Stewart Lee for further details:
Political correctness is a force for good, it's just clumsy
On March 06 2012 17:39 VTPerfect wrote: Pretty fail arguments from the pro exhibit side. Calorie input vs output is an extreme gross oversimplification of the biological processes that aren't even close to being fully understood. Doctors aren't going to say its your fault you got Arthritis, they aren't going to say its your fault you got a brain tumor and they aren't going to say its your fault you got Fat because there simply isn't enough evidence to conclusively say anything.
Really tired of posters using arguments like, "they are just lazy", "they need to eat less" "they need some tough love". Its pretty much the same flawed arguments about non-korean starcraft players (i find the term foreigner offensive). What exactly is your agenda anyways...
Except that you are 100% wrong. Barring some highly complicated health defect, it is biologically impossible to continue gaining fat when you consume low amounts of healthy, balanced foods and exercise daily.
It is true that you can't simply starve yourself to fitness. But if you get off your ass and actually use your body for what it was supposed to be used, you will not only lose excess fat but gain muscle and that is a medical and sports fact.
This is all a travesty backed by McDonalds and other food corporations. People need to stop finding retarded excuses why their life sucks, they need to stop being insulted by objective criticism, stop whining, sitting around, watching commercials, buying shit they don't need and just start living. I'd argue that "living" in its true sense absolutely involves daily exhaustion due to exercise or at least copious amounts of sex.
If i'm 100% wrong why is it two people can consume the same food, excercise a similar amount while one person is 20 pounds overweight and the other is in the healthy range and neither person has these "highly complicated health defects".
That just means that the fat person is eating more than he needs while the thin person doesn't. Differen't people need differen't amount of calories, but needing to eat less is not an excuse to get fat. Instead they should be happy that their bodies manages to live on so little, it either makes your food expenses a whole lot less or it means that they can eat much better food for the same money.
On March 06 2012 17:39 VTPerfect wrote: Pretty fail arguments from the pro exhibit side. Calorie input vs output is an extreme gross oversimplification of the biological processes that aren't even close to being fully understood. Doctors aren't going to say its your fault you got Arthritis, they aren't going to say its your fault you got a brain tumor and they aren't going to say its your fault you got Fat because there simply isn't enough evidence to conclusively say anything.
Really tired of posters using arguments like, "they are just lazy", "they need to eat less" "they need some tough love". Its pretty much the same flawed arguments about non-korean starcraft players (i find the term foreigner offensive). What exactly is your agenda anyways...
Except that you are 100% wrong. Barring some highly complicated health defect, it is biologically impossible to continue gaining fat when you consume low amounts of healthy, balanced foods and exercise daily.
It is true that you can't simply starve yourself to fitness. But if you get off your ass and actually use your body for what it was supposed to be used, you will not only lose excess fat but gain muscle and that is a medical and sports fact.
This is all a travesty backed by McDonalds and other food corporations. People need to stop finding retarded excuses why their life sucks, they need to stop being insulted by objective criticism, stop whining, sitting around, watching commercials, buying shit they don't need and just start living. I'd argue that "living" in its true sense absolutely involves daily exhaustion due to exercise or at least copious amounts of sex.
If i'm 100% wrong why is it two people can consume the same food, excercise a similar amount while one person is 20 pounds overweight and the other is in the healthy range and neither person has these "highly complicated health defects". Guess what like the doctors said there is obviously genetic factors and/or unknown factors at play here. Contrary to popular belief people aren't magically born all the same. I happend to have inherited a few extra genes that seem to increase intelligence. But you would think I was an asshole if i were to go around calling everyone else stupid. So how is it ok for normal weight people to go around calling overweight people fat. The reason Organizations to promote fat acceptance exist is to educate people that hold your beliefs in the latest scientific research. You seem really vested in being "right" but the irony in such a paradigm is funny.
Wow... you lack basic understanding. If you eat more than YOU PERSONALLY need you will get fat. This isn't a myth or a theory... this is FACT.
Just because someone can eat more than you and not get fat doesn't mean you can eat the same amount. It means you need to find out what your LIMIT IS and only stay under it. Blows my mind you could write that paragraph as though you thought you were correct and with your genes for enhanced intelligence :-P
On March 06 2012 18:19 Aterons_toss wrote: And if we are on the subject... why aren't kids thought the dangers of being overweight from a young age by school/parents in the first place if its such a big deal in the USA ?
If they were, then no one would care if we demonized obese monsters in a theme park.
On March 06 2012 17:15 bOneSeven wrote: This guy is totally right, teenage boys are evil geniuses who are masters in the field of human psychology.
That is what bullying is about. Kids aren't experts on the human digestive track, that doesn't mean they can't feed themselves. Bullying doesn't harden people, it doesn't make them stronger, it never has.
The entire purpose of bullying is to break person down, not build them up. Did it never occur to you that bullying is a distinctly different word than conflict, argument or fight?
Bullying is like breaking a persons legs and telling them that they will be stronger for it. No they won't. Not everything that hurts you makes you stronger. Bullying doesn't make anyone stronger, it doesn't make fat people skinny.
The fact that you would even advocate it is testimony to your absence of even the most basic knowledge on bullying.
About the arab thing, they could've been romanians, if USA would have crippled our infants and killed many of our civilians, expect us to bomb ure country.
So? Now you have called Arabs and Romanians less than human. Creatures that can't be held responsible for their own actions because they aren't intelligent enough to react otherwise. All you have done is widen the scope of your racist net, not absolved its racism.
I don't recall any Jews blowing themselves up in a German restaurant. Revenge isn't good and people can't be absolved from their actions by some strange notion that they are lesser-humans that simply don't know any better than to lash out in violence.
It is the bigotry of low expectations. "Ooh, they aren't as intelligent as us, what do you expect from them?" MLK didn't command blood to be shed in revenge and he is remembered for it. He held himself to a higher standard. The same standard that should apply to everyone.
On March 06 2012 16:57 Emperor_Earth wrote: Being fat is a choice except for the very rare exception where you are vegetated or something and not physically able to determine your diet.
The equation has been the same for aeons and aeons:
You can eat incredible unhealthy and still be thin if you exercise and don't eat too much. That doesn't mean you are actually healthy. On the opposite side someone can eat healthy food but eat to much and look fat while remaining relativly heatlhy.
On March 06 2012 18:41 oldgregg wrote: I don't get why people get so offended by fat people. They're fat, who cares! How does it affect you?
I don't think that people are offended by fat people, people however usually are offended by ignorant people. Fat people who blame their overweight on everything but themselves are ignorant.
People are going more and more overboard on the Political Correctness these days due to how easily you can sue people or organisations, especially in America which is infamous for people suing McDonalds for making them fat. This ridiculous greed and ease of which people can sue each other is making people need to be more and more careful over what they do and say.
On March 06 2012 18:41 oldgregg wrote: I don't get why people get so offended by fat people. They're fat, who cares! How does it affect you?
I don't think that people are offended by fat people, people however usually are offended by ignorant people. Fat people who blame their overweight on everything but themselves are ignorant.
Agreed. As are people who dismiss the genetic components of obesity. Obesity isn't 100% caused by laziness or 100% caused by genes, it's caused by a mixture of both
EPT
) does not eradicate the issue of both self esteem and health problems obese people have. Educating and therefore making people have more chances to do something about it, does help.
