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Hey TL'ers!
My phone just buzzed, to tell me that North Korea, under the leader of Kim-Jong-Un, just made deal with the US. The deal says that North Korea will curb their nuclear program (to some extent), in exchange for food and similar supplies.
Article: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/01/world/asia/us-says-north-korea-agrees-to-curb-nuclear-work.html?_r=1&hp
Your thoughts? As said in the article, this has happened before without any longterm results, but with the new leader I at least have pretty high hopes for the direction North Korea are taking now.
PS: Sorry if this post isn't good or my grammar is bad, but this is the first time I'm doing a post like this and English ain't my native language.
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Great news! I didnt expect this deal to go through after the great leader died.
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i doubt it'll be any different from before. lots of the old guard still in power
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We'll see if he actually distributes it to his people... This does seem to be a good step, though.
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Hope this deal doesn't turn out to be take and run.
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Thats awesome, i hope they follow through and its not just talk. It seems like they may be crumbling now that they are opening up.
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Looks like Kim jong un wants statues representing him to be made out of meat instead of stone.
Either that or the army people might get more snackbreaks.
I hope it will improve the living of the people, but I doubt it a lot.
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Huh, this is actually pretty good news. How refreshing.
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For the relatively young and inexperienced Mr. Kim, the agreement could be crucial to solidifying his hold on power and the backing of the military, analysts in South Korea said. He needs to show in his early months in power that he is improving people’s lives after years of food shortages and a devastating famine, and bringing in 240,000 metric tons of food aid from the United States will surely help.
Even if he's not doing it for the sake of the people but just to make himself look better it's still gonna be a step in the right direction if the people who need the food do actually get some.
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This is interesting.
I really hope he has learned from the past and more importantly gets good advice...
This could actually be a turning point.
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Remember how the last time NK agreed to something like this, it tested a nuke a few years later and effectively said "ya sorry, but we're North Korea and gonna do what we want".
That being said, I have high hopes for this.
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On March 01 2012 02:27 docvoc wrote:
Thats awesome, i hope they follow through and its not just talk. It seems like they may be crumbling now that they are opening up.
This. N.Korea just can't seem to keep their word.
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Mixed feelings on this - it wouldn't be the first time NK has the chance to go back on their word and telling everybody to fuck off, yet a new leader could potentially change the terrible conditions in that area.
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It's probably just a bid to get more food for his army and do more offensive posturing later.
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On March 01 2012 02:42 RaiD.RaynoR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 02:27 docvoc wrote:
Thats awesome, i hope they follow through and its not just talk. It seems like they may be crumbling now that they are opening up. This. N.Korea just can't seem to keep their word.
This is true for most of the world, not just NK.
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It's terrible how these world 'leaders' are able to hold their citizens hostage while we have to send them food and aid. I'm betting most of the food and aid are going into the military or the pockets of the government while the people still starve as usual.
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I think people are too eager to look for light at the end of the tunnel.
This is like the drug addicated family member that has gone into rehab for the sixth time. You really want to believe him, but you should prepare for the more likely outcome.
North-Korea probably the most unreliable nation in the world, exactly why they are so hard to engage in diplomacy. Diplomacy is entirely based around trust. You just can't trust North-Korea.
We will see, but it has a long way to go before I am going to compliment that atrocious nation for anything.
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The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Hope not.
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Meanwhile, U.S.A is nuking the shit out of the Pacific ocean.
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Same old same old, really
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On March 01 2012 02:55 zalz wrote:
I think people are too eager to look for light at the end of the tunnel.
This is like the drug addicated family member that has gone into rehab for the sixth time. You really want to believe him, but you should prepare for the more likely outcome.
North-Korea probably the most unreliable nation in the world, exactly why they are so hard to engage in diplomacy. Diplomacy is entirely based around trust. You just can't trust North-Korea.
We will see, but it has a long way to go before I am going to compliment that atrocious nation for anything.
atleast it means more food for the poor people over there. thats something to be happy about.
ofc we shouldnt expect a big change and this happened before. still its the first good news since a long time.
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On March 01 2012 03:00 cellblock wrote:
Meanwhile, U.S.A is nuking the shit out of the Pacific ocean.
Nice contribution, go back to reddit.
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A good step in the right direction!
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I'm going to approach this cautiously, but hopefully Kim Jung Un is a much more benevolent and less hostile leader than his father and grandfather. It's good news...but I hope it leads to more improvements.
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So they're basically trading physical, tangible items like food and other supplies for a promise to not go into nuclear works.
Regardless of how much writing this is in, I say we have weekly proof of this lack of nuclear "research." I'd sooner trust my crazy neighbors with such promises than North Korea with a still-somewhat-unpredictably-new leader.
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On March 01 2012 03:01 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 02:55 zalz wrote:
I think people are too eager to look for light at the end of the tunnel.
This is like the drug addicated family member that has gone into rehab for the sixth time. You really want to believe him, but you should prepare for the more likely outcome.
North-Korea probably the most unreliable nation in the world, exactly why they are so hard to engage in diplomacy. Diplomacy is entirely based around trust. You just can't trust North-Korea.
We will see, but it has a long way to go before I am going to compliment that atrocious nation for anything. atleast it means more food for the poor people over there. thats something to be happy about. ofc we shouldnt expect a big change and this happened before. still its the first good news since a long time.
No, it doesn't mean that.
We in the first world don't view food in the same way as people in the third world (and yes, North-Korea, despite its nukes, is 3rd world).
Dictatorships regularly use food as a weapon. They give it to those that are loyal, they feed their soldiers. The rest can starve.
The further you go from Pyongyang, the less people will get a taste of this food. Food is a tool to keep control. The fact that they might limit their nuke production does nothing to curtail the atrocious situation that exists in North-Korea.
This food might just as easily help the Kim's and the military to tighten their grasp on power.
They have their nukes. They have their obscene ammount of guns aimed at Seoul. They are still Orwellian on a scope that nobody would ever think was possible.
Again, people shouldn't treat this as some massive leap forward. If this trend continues, then you might begin to be a bit more optimistic. At this point, you are just setting yourself up for a dissapointment.
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On March 01 2012 03:09 CreatorGX wrote:
So they're basically trading physical, tangible items like food and other supplies for a promise to not go into nuclear works.
Regardless of how much writing this is in, I say we have weekly proof of this lack of nuclear "research." I'd sooner trust my crazy neighbors with such promises than North Korea with a still-somewhat-unpredictably-new leader.
Well, what we get is not necessarily intangible. IAEA inspectors will be allowed back into the country to conduct inspections on the main nuclear facilities in NK. So its not just a promise. I am not sure if with the new inspections also means the re application of the other safeguard mechanisms such as seals or cameras to monitor the facilities too.
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I wonder if the leftover generals will assassinate Kim Jung Un if he's too soft, or if they respect the "Dear Leader" aura enough to support his decisions.
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eh we'll see
i coulda sworn i read that kim jong il's successor (his son) is even more bad ass than his father
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On March 01 2012 03:01 251 wrote:
Same old same old, really
going to listen to this guy, seems like something to make him look better instead of helping the people out.
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I really have high hopes for Kim Jong-Un, so I'll be optimistic and hope for improvement in North Korea. Also it would be sad to see him go at such a young age.
Here's the thing - if North Korea just flips off everyone else enough times, eventually someone will get pissed off enough to either invade or forcibly remove their nukes. At some point they'll have to lay low at least for a while and stop being dicks to other countries.
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Meh this has happened before. The way NK words their agreements they can basically back out whenever they feel like it.
If the talks "stop going fruitfully" they can back out. That being said, its nice to see that jong-Un is at least willing to talk.
Hopefully this results in aid being given to the North Korean Citizens, who certainly could use it.
Obama said it well, "Important, But limited" steps
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Well to be honest it sounds very good. Communication with North Korea and foreign countries is nice to see as it shows kim jong un understands the importance of globalization for his nation and is willing to give up its weapons for it.
Like the choice
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On March 01 2012 03:48 iiGreetings wrote:
Well to be honest it sounds very good. Communication with North Korea and foreign countries is nice to see as it shows kim jong un understands the importance of globalization for his nation and is willing to give up its weapons for it.
Like the choice
It's just the same crap they've done forever. Everytime they get food shortage, they suddenly become friendly to get food and throw "sacred war" and "nuclear inferno" bullshit right after.
Nothing to comment, they are not opening themselves to the world, they won't lower their nuclear ambitions and they certainly won't stop pulling their stunts.
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On March 01 2012 02:46 Galaxy613 wrote:
It's probably just a bid to get more food for his army and do more offensive posturing later.
so what your saying is their damned if they do, and damned if they don't essentially?
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heard about this or at least the talks, they wanted tons of food and I guess US's speechcraft level was high enough for this result. good job
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On March 01 2012 03:00 cellblock wrote:
Meanwhile, U.S.A is nuking the shit out of the Pacific ocean.
I hope this is sarcasm. The US and Russia were the first countries to ban nuclear testing DECADES ago.
To the OP, the inspectors being allowed into the country is the big deal. The primary control mechanism for the N. Korean government is control of information into their country. If the inspectors are allowed to do their job that in of itself will be progress. But that's a big IF.
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Optimism is fine to have with this, just don't go betting the farm for this to work.
Granted Kim jong-Un is new, but he was picked by his father to keep legacy of Kim il-Sung (and by proxy Kim jong-Il) alive. Un is not the elder of Il's sons. In fact, he is the youngest. The eldest son and daughter of Kim jong-Il have/are publicly in opposition to the leadership in NK. So to think Un is going to be a reformer, it is unlikely (but not out of the realm of possibility).
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I would say Diplomacy is based more around mutual benefits than trust. For NK to be diplomatic, for the most part would have to go in a different direction than they are willing. To them Diplomacy doesnt have as much benefits as other countries who are on the same page.
NK might aswell have all their add stopped and then see how willing they are to curb their nuclear program. The aid isnt even being given to the people who need it. We bitch and moan about NK but yet we support them. We send MORE aid; why are we bending to them? Cut the aid, tell them to halt all nuclear programs if they want it returned. If we are supporting their military i dont see how we have a reason to bitch about it.
Just thinking out loud.
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On March 01 2012 02:46 Galaxy613 wrote:
It's probably just a bid to get more food for his army and do more offensive posturing later.
North Korea please don't troll us.
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Same old crap that they have always done to get food/supplies/equipment/technology before they return to their old ways. Good means for the new leader to solidify power by providing food to his loyalists.
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Does this mean we will get more generic pictures of the dear leader (new edition) staring at common foods with his generals?
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who says theyll actually follow up and do it though. their devolopment has been under the radar this entire time. who says they dont just keep their nuclear research a secret and take our food and supplies?
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Well its a step in the right direction, good sign.
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On March 01 2012 04:24 JiYan wrote:
who says theyll actually follow up and do it though. their devolopment has been under the radar this entire time. who says they dont just keep their nuclear research a secret and take our food and supplies?
This is a very good point. IAEA inspectors can only go to declared nuclear facilities to do their inspections. Declared facilities, as the name implies, are the facilities that the government (NK here) state as their nuclear facilities. So undeclared facilities could be present and how NK's uranium enrichment program came about and found out, keeping these types of facilities under wraps from the outside on-lookers is highly probable. I am not too sure when NK did come out and said publicly they have uranium enrichment (for those unaware, this was their second way of making fissile material and only came to light that they had the capability to go this route was sometime around 2006-7) an in-depth list of what they have there, number of centrifuges and the like, to be able to know whether or not all are present at the declare facility. Without such a list, having an undeclared site doing the same stuff somewhere else could go on with little the IAEA can do.
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On March 01 2012 04:08 xavierofsparta wrote:
Optimism is fine to have with this, just don't go betting the farm for this to work.
Granted Kim jong-Un is new, but he was picked by his father to keep legacy of Kim il-Sung (and by proxy Kim jong-Il) alive. Un is not the elder of Il's sons. In fact, he is the youngest. The eldest son and daughter of Kim jong-Il have/are publicly in opposition to the leadership in NK. So to think Un is going to be a reformer, it is unlikely (but not out of the realm of possibility).
Well that was mostly because his eldest son tried to go to Tokyo Disneyland, which was a big embarassment for North Korea. He wasn't speaking out against his father before that.
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EPT
