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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On July 21 2012 08:51 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 08:46 radient737 wrote:I am in South Africa, and our stats being what they are, none of what I say may be relevant to this debate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_ratehttp://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearmsI don't feel like I'm living in a warzone, but there is a definite air of danger. Last week, my friend's wife got home to three black men beating up her father. Her 3 month old baby girl was in the room tied up with the nanny, after a scuffle in which she luckily escaped mostly unharmed (not for lack of trying on their part) they fled the scene. This turned out VERY well. I will not begin to mention here what normally happens to 3 month old baby girls in this country in this scenario. I understand the psychological argument for not carrying guns, I would love to live in the world where it's not necessary to do so. I have one goal though, and that is to protect my young family. I have no chance if 3 men enter my home (or place of work, or my car) and thus I carry a gun. It gives me a fighting chance, and it equalizes a fight. End of argument for me. Unfortunately a no-brainer. My condolences to the families of the shootings in colorado, and to america in general. From a country where this kind of deathtoll will scarcely make the news. That sums it up rather well. It's as if some people live in the land of bumblebees and carebears. If push comes to shove and you are not willing to defend your loved ones through any means possible you aren't fit to have a family. If you ever become in that position I guarantee you would be wishing you had a firearm.
You seriously compare "your" situation to that in south africa, a third world country? How delusional are you, seriously? Ever been to Jonhannisburg? The homocide-rate there was at some point higher than that of death due to car accidents ôo
Just to be clear here, Johannesburg has the fame to be the most dangerous city in the world, just to even think about comparing that to some city in Canada/USA is just retarded, im sorry.
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On July 21 2012 08:46 radient737 wrote:I am in South Africa, and our stats being what they are, none of what I say may be relevant to this debate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_ratehttp://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearmsI don't feel like I'm living in a warzone, but there is a definite air of danger. Last week, my friend's wife got home to three black men beating up her father. Her 3 month old baby girl was in the room tied up with the nanny, after a scuffle in which she luckily escaped mostly unharmed (not for lack of trying on their part) they fled the scene. This turned out VERY well. I will not begin to mention here what normally happens to 3 month old baby girls in this country in this scenario. I understand the psychological argument for not carrying guns, I would love to live in the world where it's not necessary to do so. I have one goal though, and that is to protect my young family. I have no chance if 3 men enter my home (or place of work, or my car) and thus I carry a gun. It gives me a fighting chance, and it equalizes a fight. End of argument for me. Unfortunately a no-brainer. My condolences to the families of the shootings in colorado, and to america in general. From a country where this kind of deathtoll will scarcely make the news.
Good luck to you down there friend, keep packing and stay alert. I hope you or your family never ever have to be given a reason to unholster it.
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On July 21 2012 08:46 radient737 wrote:I am in South Africa, and our stats being what they are, none of what I say may be relevant to this debate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_ratehttp://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearmsI don't feel like I'm living in a warzone, but there is a definite air of danger. Last week, my friend's wife got home to three black men beating up her father. Her 3 month old baby girl was in the room tied up with the nanny, after a scuffle in which she luckily escaped mostly unharmed (not for lack of trying on their part) they fled the scene. This turned out VERY well. I will not begin to mention here what normally happens to 3 month old baby girls in this country in this scenario. I understand the psychological argument for not carrying guns, I would love to live in the world where it's not necessary to do so. I have one goal though, and that is to protect my young family. I have no chance if 3 men enter my home (or place of work, or my car) and thus I carry a gun. It gives me a fighting chance, and it equalizes a fight. End of argument for me. Unfortunately a no-brainer. My condolences to the families of the shootings in colorado, and to america in general. From a country where this kind of deathtoll will scarcely make the news.
Not surprising that when one lives in a hell hole (or shit hole), it is safer to have better mean of protecting itself. US must have felt the same way.
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On July 21 2012 08:56 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 08:36 heliusx wrote:On July 21 2012 08:26 Solarist wrote:On July 21 2012 08:24 StarStrider wrote:On July 21 2012 08:18 Solarist wrote:
This is insane. Im shocked to see this many John Wayne wannabe psycopaths on a forum like TL.net.
Some people posting here should really get checked out.
Random teenager breaks into my house: Shoot him in the face
Hear suspecious noice downstairs, better assume its psycho rapists: Shoot them in the face
I really thought people with opinions like those expressed by alot of Americans in this thread were too braindead inbred to operate a computer. But alas my faith has been shattered.
Nice to see there's some sensible Americans in here aswell Right. Because "Shoot him in the face" is the only option for dealing with criminals while using a gun. That's idiocy. You're asserting that most or all gun owners would 'shoot to kill' regardless of whether their life was in danger. Jesus Christ. Sadly thats been the opinion expressed by a ton of pro-gun people in this thread (Let0 or something comes to mid). I dont suggest you read the previous pages, its pretty disgusting Anyone who thinks you should use a firearm in self defense without the intent to kill is childish and shouldn't be allowed any where's near a weapon. It's literally the first thing they will teach you. It's a killing tool and nothing else. You Do not point it unless you are killing what you are pointing at. Ntheres no "quick shoot and disable his trigger finger". Don't be so naive. And YOU are naive if you don't think guns don't have the ability to persuade a would be criminal to flee, or to injure or maim or incapacitate without killing. Simply brandishing the firearm is enough for most petty thugs, because they aren't going to risk their life to find out if you are the kind of motherfucker who would squeeze. Alot of the time they use unloaded or disrepaired firearms in crimes. Guns are also really really loud and scary when you fire a warning shot.The threat is more than half the battle. Look at statistics on how many people were SUPPOSED to die and survived a gunshot wound, and that was when the would-be killer was aiming at a killzone. All I need to do is not hit them there if I want them to have a high chance of survival. Even a gutshot would take days to kill you. LOL you act as if everyone needs to be Wyatt Earp. The legs are just as easy to hit and will put someone on the ground without killing them. And that's IF you ever need to squeeze, rarely would you ever find yourself in the situation where you have to. But God knows, if a loaded gun is aimed at me or my family, it's going in their chest, I'm not going to take a second to find out if they are bluffing or not. I will call the ambulance just as soon as I holster it too. This is all in stark contrast to the attitude "If you step on my property, I'm shootin' to kill whether you're armed or not" as has been falsely labeled on gun owners.
So clearly you haven't been exposed to this situation. Nor have you received any type of firearm training. It's childish and naive to think you have time to decide if he's a real threat or blah blah blah. If you try to threaten with a gun it's not going to end well. So please if you ever decide to purchase a firearm or if you foolishly already own one please seek training because yor mindset is a threat to your safety and anyone around you in this type of situation.
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On July 21 2012 08:50 treemaster wrote:
1. How exactly do you think a gun is going to help save you from an armed criminal? It does nothing in the hands of a non-professional other than make you a target in such a situation.
2. Canada is not a part of the United States. Stop referring to yourselves as Americans, you demean the rest of the continent. We have decidedly low gun crime here, and less guns, in an otherwise similar society. You figure it out.
3. How smart is it to give just anyone the right to own a weapon whose sole purpose is the killing of other humans? Do you really think that borderline psych cases are staring at their legally-acquired arsenals, thinking happy thoughts of home defence? Or could it just be that those who are most likely to acquire dishonourable, point-click-die weapons are also most likely to want to use them???
FFS apply a different perspective, U.S. I am sick of this mindless "derp right to self-defence" bull.
1) Did you know that concealed carry requires class time, like 12 hours of CLASSROOM training, range training, and re-certification in Ohio for one.
3) Um, just anyone, are you serious? There's lots of restrictions on the ability to purchase a firearm (background checks and criminal record checks). If I purchased a gun I'd have to wait at the counter for 10 minutes while the clerk calls the FBI to see if I'm all-clear.
The vast majority of gun owners in the US are law-abiding citizens who are diligent in their keeping and handling of fire arms and to demean them in such a way as to imply that they are more likely to be crazy is personally sickening. Because a few psychopaths (who were out-of-nowhere psycho mind you) go on murder sprees doesn't make legal gun ownership abhorrent. News flash, this guy was most likely completely insane and just looking to be famous (hence allowing himself to be caught alive) and would have done this no matter how difficult it is to get a weapon.
On July 21 2012 08:26 Sofestafont wrote:
The Second Amendment of the US Constitution.
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
I feel our gun laws throughout the Country have completely ignored the first part of the Second Amendment.
You forgot to include the word "militia" in your bold btw.
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On July 21 2012 08:59 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 08:51 heliusx wrote:On July 21 2012 08:46 radient737 wrote:I am in South Africa, and our stats being what they are, none of what I say may be relevant to this debate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_ratehttp://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearmsI don't feel like I'm living in a warzone, but there is a definite air of danger. Last week, my friend's wife got home to three black men beating up her father. Her 3 month old baby girl was in the room tied up with the nanny, after a scuffle in which she luckily escaped mostly unharmed (not for lack of trying on their part) they fled the scene. This turned out VERY well. I will not begin to mention here what normally happens to 3 month old baby girls in this country in this scenario. I understand the psychological argument for not carrying guns, I would love to live in the world where it's not necessary to do so. I have one goal though, and that is to protect my young family. I have no chance if 3 men enter my home (or place of work, or my car) and thus I carry a gun. It gives me a fighting chance, and it equalizes a fight. End of argument for me. Unfortunately a no-brainer. My condolences to the families of the shootings in colorado, and to america in general. From a country where this kind of deathtoll will scarcely make the news. That sums it up rather well. It's as if some people live in the land of bumblebees and carebears. If push comes to shove and you are not willing to defend your loved ones through any means possible you aren't fit to have a family. If you ever become in that position I guarantee you would be wishing you had a firearm. You seriously compare "your" situation to that in south africa, a third world country? How delusional are you, seriously? Ever been to Jonhannisburg? The homocide-rate there was at some point higher than that of death due to car accidents ôo Just to be clear here, Johannesburg has the fame to be the most dangerous city in the world, just to even think about comparing that to some city in Canada/USA is just retarded, im sorry.
Implying that because the statistical probability of it happening in any city in the US/Canada is a significant amount lower, the possibility ceases to exist.
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On July 21 2012 08:59 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 08:51 heliusx wrote:On July 21 2012 08:46 radient737 wrote:I am in South Africa, and our stats being what they are, none of what I say may be relevant to this debate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_ratehttp://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearmsI don't feel like I'm living in a warzone, but there is a definite air of danger. Last week, my friend's wife got home to three black men beating up her father. Her 3 month old baby girl was in the room tied up with the nanny, after a scuffle in which she luckily escaped mostly unharmed (not for lack of trying on their part) they fled the scene. This turned out VERY well. I will not begin to mention here what normally happens to 3 month old baby girls in this country in this scenario. I understand the psychological argument for not carrying guns, I would love to live in the world where it's not necessary to do so. I have one goal though, and that is to protect my young family. I have no chance if 3 men enter my home (or place of work, or my car) and thus I carry a gun. It gives me a fighting chance, and it equalizes a fight. End of argument for me. Unfortunately a no-brainer. My condolences to the families of the shootings in colorado, and to america in general. From a country where this kind of deathtoll will scarcely make the news. That sums it up rather well. It's as if some people live in the land of bumblebees and carebears. If push comes to shove and you are not willing to defend your loved ones through any means possible you aren't fit to have a family. If you ever become in that position I guarantee you would be wishing you had a firearm. You seriously compare "your" situation to that in south africa, a third world country? How delusional are you, seriously? Ever been to Jonhannisburg? The homocide-rate there was at some point higher than that of death due to car accidents ôo Just to be clear here, Johannesburg has the fame to be the most dangerous city in the world, just to even think about comparing that to some city in Canada/USA is just retarded, im sorry.
How does area of locale change anything? If you are in A situation where you need to protect your life your location means nothing. Violent crime happens everywhere. Secondly just because my tag says Canada means nothing I Was born in Canada and visit occasionally. Don't pretend to know anything about me.
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On July 21 2012 09:05 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 08:59 m4inbrain wrote:On July 21 2012 08:51 heliusx wrote:On July 21 2012 08:46 radient737 wrote:I am in South Africa, and our stats being what they are, none of what I say may be relevant to this debate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_ratehttp://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearmsI don't feel like I'm living in a warzone, but there is a definite air of danger. Last week, my friend's wife got home to three black men beating up her father. Her 3 month old baby girl was in the room tied up with the nanny, after a scuffle in which she luckily escaped mostly unharmed (not for lack of trying on their part) they fled the scene. This turned out VERY well. I will not begin to mention here what normally happens to 3 month old baby girls in this country in this scenario. I understand the psychological argument for not carrying guns, I would love to live in the world where it's not necessary to do so. I have one goal though, and that is to protect my young family. I have no chance if 3 men enter my home (or place of work, or my car) and thus I carry a gun. It gives me a fighting chance, and it equalizes a fight. End of argument for me. Unfortunately a no-brainer. My condolences to the families of the shootings in colorado, and to america in general. From a country where this kind of deathtoll will scarcely make the news. That sums it up rather well. It's as if some people live in the land of bumblebees and carebears. If push comes to shove and you are not willing to defend your loved ones through any means possible you aren't fit to have a family. If you ever become in that position I guarantee you would be wishing you had a firearm. You seriously compare "your" situation to that in south africa, a third world country? How delusional are you, seriously? Ever been to Jonhannisburg? The homocide-rate there was at some point higher than that of death due to car accidents ôo Just to be clear here, Johannesburg has the fame to be the most dangerous city in the world, just to even think about comparing that to some city in Canada/USA is just retarded, im sorry. Implying that because the statistical probability of it happening in any city in the US/Canada is a significant amount lower, the possibility ceases to exist.
On July 21 2012 09:06 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 08:59 m4inbrain wrote:On July 21 2012 08:51 heliusx wrote:On July 21 2012 08:46 radient737 wrote:I am in South Africa, and our stats being what they are, none of what I say may be relevant to this debate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_ratehttp://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearmsI don't feel like I'm living in a warzone, but there is a definite air of danger. Last week, my friend's wife got home to three black men beating up her father. Her 3 month old baby girl was in the room tied up with the nanny, after a scuffle in which she luckily escaped mostly unharmed (not for lack of trying on their part) they fled the scene. This turned out VERY well. I will not begin to mention here what normally happens to 3 month old baby girls in this country in this scenario. I understand the psychological argument for not carrying guns, I would love to live in the world where it's not necessary to do so. I have one goal though, and that is to protect my young family. I have no chance if 3 men enter my home (or place of work, or my car) and thus I carry a gun. It gives me a fighting chance, and it equalizes a fight. End of argument for me. Unfortunately a no-brainer. My condolences to the families of the shootings in colorado, and to america in general. From a country where this kind of deathtoll will scarcely make the news. That sums it up rather well. It's as if some people live in the land of bumblebees and carebears. If push comes to shove and you are not willing to defend your loved ones through any means possible you aren't fit to have a family. If you ever become in that position I guarantee you would be wishing you had a firearm. You seriously compare "your" situation to that in south africa, a third world country? How delusional are you, seriously? Ever been to Jonhannisburg? The homocide-rate there was at some point higher than that of death due to car accidents ôo Just to be clear here, Johannesburg has the fame to be the most dangerous city in the world, just to even think about comparing that to some city in Canada/USA is just retarded, im sorry. How does area of locale change anything? If you are in A situation where you need to protect your life your location means nothing. Violent crime happens everywhere. Secondly just because my tag says Canada means nothing I Was born in Canada and visit occasionally. Don't pretend to know anything about me.
If you want to account for every bad situation that still has the possibility to exist, you'd go insane.
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On July 21 2012 09:03 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 08:56 StarStrider wrote:On July 21 2012 08:36 heliusx wrote:On July 21 2012 08:26 Solarist wrote:On July 21 2012 08:24 StarStrider wrote:On July 21 2012 08:18 Solarist wrote:
This is insane. Im shocked to see this many John Wayne wannabe psycopaths on a forum like TL.net.
Some people posting here should really get checked out.
Random teenager breaks into my house: Shoot him in the face
Hear suspecious noice downstairs, better assume its psycho rapists: Shoot them in the face
I really thought people with opinions like those expressed by alot of Americans in this thread were too braindead inbred to operate a computer. But alas my faith has been shattered.
Nice to see there's some sensible Americans in here aswell Right. Because "Shoot him in the face" is the only option for dealing with criminals while using a gun. That's idiocy. You're asserting that most or all gun owners would 'shoot to kill' regardless of whether their life was in danger. Jesus Christ. Sadly thats been the opinion expressed by a ton of pro-gun people in this thread (Let0 or something comes to mid). I dont suggest you read the previous pages, its pretty disgusting Anyone who thinks you should use a firearm in self defense without the intent to kill is childish and shouldn't be allowed any where's near a weapon. It's literally the first thing they will teach you. It's a killing tool and nothing else. You Do not point it unless you are killing what you are pointing at. Ntheres no "quick shoot and disable his trigger finger". Don't be so naive. And YOU are naive if you don't think guns don't have the ability to persuade a would be criminal to flee, or to injure or maim or incapacitate without killing. Simply brandishing the firearm is enough for most petty thugs, because they aren't going to risk their life to find out if you are the kind of motherfucker who would squeeze. Alot of the time they use unloaded or disrepaired firearms in crimes. Guns are also really really loud and scary when you fire a warning shot.The threat is more than half the battle. Look at statistics on how many people were SUPPOSED to die and survived a gunshot wound, and that was when the would-be killer was aiming at a killzone. All I need to do is not hit them there if I want them to have a high chance of survival. Even a gutshot would take days to kill you. LOL you act as if everyone needs to be Wyatt Earp. The legs are just as easy to hit and will put someone on the ground without killing them. And that's IF you ever need to squeeze, rarely would you ever find yourself in the situation where you have to. But God knows, if a loaded gun is aimed at me or my family, it's going in their chest, I'm not going to take a second to find out if they are bluffing or not. I will call the ambulance just as soon as I holster it too. This is all in stark contrast to the attitude "If you step on my property, I'm shootin' to kill whether you're armed or not" as has been falsely labeled on gun owners. So clearly you haven't been exposed to this situation. Nor have you received any type of firearm training. It's childish and naive to think you have time to decide if he's a real threat or blah blah blah. If you try to threaten with a gun it's not going to end well. So please if you ever decide to purchase a firearm or if you foolishly already own one please seek training because yor mindset is a threat to your safety and anyone around you in this type of situation.
Thanks for the condescension. The mere sight of my revolver has gotten me safely through an approach by 3 thugs in the south side of a major city which I live near. I own numerous firearms and have been through immense training and safety courses. HERP DERP GUNS KILL. Well, you don't say good sir! A polite fuck you and have a nice day. I'll be just fine thanks.
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If you had ANY proper firearm training you would know a guns SOLE purpose is to kill. You DO NOT point at anything you do not want to die EVER. And if you did receive "training" please go demand a refund so you can get a real run down.
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On July 21 2012 09:08 Tarot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 09:05 StarStrider wrote:On July 21 2012 08:59 m4inbrain wrote:On July 21 2012 08:51 heliusx wrote:On July 21 2012 08:46 radient737 wrote:I am in South Africa, and our stats being what they are, none of what I say may be relevant to this debate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_ratehttp://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearmsI don't feel like I'm living in a warzone, but there is a definite air of danger. Last week, my friend's wife got home to three black men beating up her father. Her 3 month old baby girl was in the room tied up with the nanny, after a scuffle in which she luckily escaped mostly unharmed (not for lack of trying on their part) they fled the scene. This turned out VERY well. I will not begin to mention here what normally happens to 3 month old baby girls in this country in this scenario. I understand the psychological argument for not carrying guns, I would love to live in the world where it's not necessary to do so. I have one goal though, and that is to protect my young family. I have no chance if 3 men enter my home (or place of work, or my car) and thus I carry a gun. It gives me a fighting chance, and it equalizes a fight. End of argument for me. Unfortunately a no-brainer. My condolences to the families of the shootings in colorado, and to america in general. From a country where this kind of deathtoll will scarcely make the news. That sums it up rather well. It's as if some people live in the land of bumblebees and carebears. If push comes to shove and you are not willing to defend your loved ones through any means possible you aren't fit to have a family. If you ever become in that position I guarantee you would be wishing you had a firearm. You seriously compare "your" situation to that in south africa, a third world country? How delusional are you, seriously? Ever been to Jonhannisburg? The homocide-rate there was at some point higher than that of death due to car accidents ôo Just to be clear here, Johannesburg has the fame to be the most dangerous city in the world, just to even think about comparing that to some city in Canada/USA is just retarded, im sorry. Implying that because the statistical probability of it happening in any city in the US/Canada is a significant amount lower, the possibility ceases to exist. If you want to account for every bad situation that still has the possibility to exist, you'd go insane.
If you live near a large city in the US, the chances are not as slim as you seem to think. I prefer to focus on legit possibilities that happen every single day in this country. You're correct, it would be silly to get worked up over every conceivable scenario that had infinitesmally small odds of happening. But the scenarios I carry for actually can and do happen regularly.... even in quiet suburbs and 'good neighborhoods'.
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On July 21 2012 08:56 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 08:36 heliusx wrote:On July 21 2012 08:26 Solarist wrote:On July 21 2012 08:24 StarStrider wrote:On July 21 2012 08:18 Solarist wrote:
This is insane. Im shocked to see this many John Wayne wannabe psycopaths on a forum like TL.net.
Some people posting here should really get checked out.
Random teenager breaks into my house: Shoot him in the face
Hear suspecious noice downstairs, better assume its psycho rapists: Shoot them in the face
I really thought people with opinions like those expressed by alot of Americans in this thread were too braindead inbred to operate a computer. But alas my faith has been shattered.
Nice to see there's some sensible Americans in here aswell Right. Because "Shoot him in the face" is the only option for dealing with criminals while using a gun. That's idiocy. You're asserting that most or all gun owners would 'shoot to kill' regardless of whether their life was in danger. Jesus Christ. Sadly thats been the opinion expressed by a ton of pro-gun people in this thread (Let0 or something comes to mid). I dont suggest you read the previous pages, its pretty disgusting Anyone who thinks you should use a firearm in self defense without the intent to kill is childish and shouldn't be allowed any where's near a weapon. It's literally the first thing they will teach you. It's a killing tool and nothing else. You Do not point it unless you are killing what you are pointing at. Ntheres no "quick shoot and disable his trigger finger". Don't be so naive. And that's IF you ever need to squeeze, rarely would you ever find yourself in the situation where you have to. But God knows, if a loaded gun is aimed at me or my family, it's going in their chest, I'm not going to take a second to find out if they are bluffing or not. I will call the ambulance just as soon as I holster it too.
Conversely, if it was illegal to own firearms excluding law enforcement personel, and restrictions were made much much tighter on them, the dude robbing your house would most likely be wielding a knife or similar bladed intstrument. In which case a baseball bat would be suffice in defense, and the whole situation becomes much less lethal.
The only reason people think of criminals wielding guns as a good case to own a gun, is because of how easy it actually is to obtain a gun in this country.
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On July 21 2012 09:11 BanditX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 08:56 StarStrider wrote:On July 21 2012 08:36 heliusx wrote:On July 21 2012 08:26 Solarist wrote:On July 21 2012 08:24 StarStrider wrote:On July 21 2012 08:18 Solarist wrote:
This is insane. Im shocked to see this many John Wayne wannabe psycopaths on a forum like TL.net.
Some people posting here should really get checked out.
Random teenager breaks into my house: Shoot him in the face
Hear suspecious noice downstairs, better assume its psycho rapists: Shoot them in the face
I really thought people with opinions like those expressed by alot of Americans in this thread were too braindead inbred to operate a computer. But alas my faith has been shattered.
Nice to see there's some sensible Americans in here aswell Right. Because "Shoot him in the face" is the only option for dealing with criminals while using a gun. That's idiocy. You're asserting that most or all gun owners would 'shoot to kill' regardless of whether their life was in danger. Jesus Christ. Sadly thats been the opinion expressed by a ton of pro-gun people in this thread (Let0 or something comes to mid). I dont suggest you read the previous pages, its pretty disgusting Anyone who thinks you should use a firearm in self defense without the intent to kill is childish and shouldn't be allowed any where's near a weapon. It's literally the first thing they will teach you. It's a killing tool and nothing else. You Do not point it unless you are killing what you are pointing at. Ntheres no "quick shoot and disable his trigger finger". Don't be so naive. And that's IF you ever need to squeeze, rarely would you ever find yourself in the situation where you have to. But God knows, if a loaded gun is aimed at me or my family, it's going in their chest, I'm not going to take a second to find out if they are bluffing or not. I will call the ambulance just as soon as I holster it too. Conversely, if it was illegal to own firearms excluding law enforcement personel, and restrictions were made much much tighter on them, the dude robbing your house would most likely be wielding a knife or similar bladed intstrument. In which case a baseball bat would be suffice in defense, and the whole situation becomes much less lethal. The only reason people think of criminals wielding guns as a good case to own a gun, is because of how easy it actually is to obtain a gun in this country.
If only we made gun ownership illegal like drugs then they would cease to exist! Statists are always so simplistic and naive, as if the mere proclamation by the State to make something illegal means it goes away. Well, hell, murder is illegal, but a ton of murders happen every day...if only we made it illegal!
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On July 21 2012 09:11 heliusx wrote:
If you had ANY proper firearm training you would know a guns SOLE purpose is to kill. You DO NOT point at anything you do not want to die EVER. And if you did receive "training" please go demand a refund so you can get a real run down.
Thanks buddy. Thanks for Video Gun Training warning #1. I must have missed that part where I shouldn't point unless I plan on taking a life. And here I was all this time believing I'm fucking Clint Eastwood AND CAN SHOOT A HAIR OFF YOU CHEST WITHOUT HURTING YOU JUST TO GIVE YOU A NICE SCARE. You just fucking enlightened me! HERP
Jesus Christ, you are silly.
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On July 21 2012 08:25 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 07:31 darthfoley wrote:On July 21 2012 07:30 StarStrider wrote:People should absolutely be allowed to own and carry personal protection firearms. This is just another example of why, and a great example of what kind of situation that those of us who 'go packing' do it to prevent. For those of you who see the NRA as a 'lords of war' gun lobby organization.... Here is some info for you. Because of the NRA our right to Keep and BEAR arms have been increasingly restored over last several years and more citizens are now free to carry firearms in more places since the year 1900. Yet, homicides, including homicides with firearms, as well as all other violent crime have been decreasing since 2006. Moreover, after a dramatic increase in firearms sales and ownership after the last Presidential election including an increase in first time firearms purchases and an increase in firearms carry permits, citizen disarmament zealots and organizations predicted that there would be a corresponding increase in homicides and other violent crime. However, the U.S. homicide rate decreased from 5.0 per 100,000 in 2009 to 4.8 per 100,000 in 2010 and all other violent crime decreased as well. Preliminary data from 2011 shows all Violent Crime was down 6.4%, Murder down 5.7%, Rape down 5.1%, Robbery down 7.7%, and Aggravated Assault down 5.9%. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/december/crime-stats_121911/crime-stats_121911 By contrast, The United Kingdom enacted extreme firearms bans years ago, and gun crime in the U.K. has doubled in a decade. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6438601/Gun-crime-doubles-in-a-decade.html It is no wonder that a Gallup Poll of October 26, 2011 found that 60% of those surveyed supported enforcing current gun laws more strictly and NOT pass any new laws while only 35% responded to enforce current gun laws more strictly and pass new gun control laws. http://www.gallup.com/poll/150341/Record-Low-Favor-Handgun-Ban.aspx Citizen disarmament zealots and their organizations ignore these inconvenient facts because they debunk their propaganda, deception. Furthermore, the vast majority of law enforcement officers receive their firearms training from NRA Certified Instructors, and the NRA has numerous firearms safety, marksmanship, and self-defense training programs for civilians including their award winning Refuse To Be A Victim Program. The NRA is far from being a "Criminal organization, and is, in fact, a criminal's worst enemy. http://www.nrahq.org/law/index.asp http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/ http://www.nrahq.org/education/index.asp http://www.nrahq.org/women/index.aspThe national conversation in the US over the last few years has shifted more and more from being pro gun control because more and more people are waking up and realizing that the founding fathers were right... To be truly free and safe, each citizen can and should bear arms. I'm tired of hearing about what the founding fathers thought, not only were they alive nigh 200-300 years ago, but our country shouldn't be based on what a few guys thought was right a long ass time ago. What was relevant back then is still relevant... the founding fathers thought people should be able to own firearms to protect their own property. It's not that hard to understand. People had private property back then too.
Are you serious? If someone breaks into my property and tries to claim it from me by threatening me with a gun, I can just walk over to the nearest police station, and then they will look at some papers and then reclaim my property for me. I'm sure it would work the same in USA. USA have the most capable police force in the world. Why don't you let it do its job?
I believe that the reason why USA have such a hard time to restrict guns is because it's such a big industry, with a high consumtion both from civilians and the military, so the industry is pressuring the government against change. That's how all the mega-industries operate. They do what they can to protect their own interests.
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On July 21 2012 09:13 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 09:11 BanditX wrote:On July 21 2012 08:56 StarStrider wrote:On July 21 2012 08:36 heliusx wrote:On July 21 2012 08:26 Solarist wrote:On July 21 2012 08:24 StarStrider wrote:On July 21 2012 08:18 Solarist wrote:
This is insane. Im shocked to see this many John Wayne wannabe psycopaths on a forum like TL.net.
Some people posting here should really get checked out.
Random teenager breaks into my house: Shoot him in the face
Hear suspecious noice downstairs, better assume its psycho rapists: Shoot them in the face
I really thought people with opinions like those expressed by alot of Americans in this thread were too braindead inbred to operate a computer. But alas my faith has been shattered.
Nice to see there's some sensible Americans in here aswell Right. Because "Shoot him in the face" is the only option for dealing with criminals while using a gun. That's idiocy. You're asserting that most or all gun owners would 'shoot to kill' regardless of whether their life was in danger. Jesus Christ. Sadly thats been the opinion expressed by a ton of pro-gun people in this thread (Let0 or something comes to mid). I dont suggest you read the previous pages, its pretty disgusting Anyone who thinks you should use a firearm in self defense without the intent to kill is childish and shouldn't be allowed any where's near a weapon. It's literally the first thing they will teach you. It's a killing tool and nothing else. You Do not point it unless you are killing what you are pointing at. Ntheres no "quick shoot and disable his trigger finger". Don't be so naive. And that's IF you ever need to squeeze, rarely would you ever find yourself in the situation where you have to. But God knows, if a loaded gun is aimed at me or my family, it's going in their chest, I'm not going to take a second to find out if they are bluffing or not. I will call the ambulance just as soon as I holster it too. Conversely, if it was illegal to own firearms excluding law enforcement personel, and restrictions were made much much tighter on them, the dude robbing your house would most likely be wielding a knife or similar bladed intstrument. In which case a baseball bat would be suffice in defense, and the whole situation becomes much less lethal. The only reason people think of criminals wielding guns as a good case to own a gun, is because of how easy it actually is to obtain a gun in this country. If only we made gun ownership illegal like drugs then they would cease to exist! Statists are always so simplistic and naive, as if the mere proclamation by the State to make something illegal means it goes away. Well, hell, murder is illegal, but a ton of murders happen every day...if only we made it illegal!
Creating a gun is a bit harder than creating some pot though  .
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On July 21 2012 09:13 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 09:11 BanditX wrote:On July 21 2012 08:56 StarStrider wrote:On July 21 2012 08:36 heliusx wrote:On July 21 2012 08:26 Solarist wrote:On July 21 2012 08:24 StarStrider wrote:On July 21 2012 08:18 Solarist wrote:
This is insane. Im shocked to see this many John Wayne wannabe psycopaths on a forum like TL.net.
Some people posting here should really get checked out.
Random teenager breaks into my house: Shoot him in the face
Hear suspecious noice downstairs, better assume its psycho rapists: Shoot them in the face
I really thought people with opinions like those expressed by alot of Americans in this thread were too braindead inbred to operate a computer. But alas my faith has been shattered.
Nice to see there's some sensible Americans in here aswell Right. Because "Shoot him in the face" is the only option for dealing with criminals while using a gun. That's idiocy. You're asserting that most or all gun owners would 'shoot to kill' regardless of whether their life was in danger. Jesus Christ. Sadly thats been the opinion expressed by a ton of pro-gun people in this thread (Let0 or something comes to mid). I dont suggest you read the previous pages, its pretty disgusting Anyone who thinks you should use a firearm in self defense without the intent to kill is childish and shouldn't be allowed any where's near a weapon. It's literally the first thing they will teach you. It's a killing tool and nothing else. You Do not point it unless you are killing what you are pointing at. Ntheres no "quick shoot and disable his trigger finger". Don't be so naive. And that's IF you ever need to squeeze, rarely would you ever find yourself in the situation where you have to. But God knows, if a loaded gun is aimed at me or my family, it's going in their chest, I'm not going to take a second to find out if they are bluffing or not. I will call the ambulance just as soon as I holster it too. Conversely, if it was illegal to own firearms excluding law enforcement personel, and restrictions were made much much tighter on them, the dude robbing your house would most likely be wielding a knife or similar bladed intstrument. In which case a baseball bat would be suffice in defense, and the whole situation becomes much less lethal. The only reason people think of criminals wielding guns as a good case to own a gun, is because of how easy it actually is to obtain a gun in this country. If only we made gun ownership illegal like drugs then they would cease to exist! Statists are always so simplistic and naive, as if the mere proclamation by the State to make something illegal means it goes away. Well, hell, murder is illegal, but a ton of murders happen every day...if only we made it illegal!
I was born and raised in Paris where carrying a knife bigger than a few inches is illegal and i'v never seen a firearm carried by anyone not in the police/military in 25 years.
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On July 21 2012 09:14 ninini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 08:25 Belial88 wrote:On July 21 2012 07:31 darthfoley wrote:On July 21 2012 07:30 StarStrider wrote:People should absolutely be allowed to own and carry personal protection firearms. This is just another example of why, and a great example of what kind of situation that those of us who 'go packing' do it to prevent. For those of you who see the NRA as a 'lords of war' gun lobby organization.... Here is some info for you. Because of the NRA our right to Keep and BEAR arms have been increasingly restored over last several years and more citizens are now free to carry firearms in more places since the year 1900. Yet, homicides, including homicides with firearms, as well as all other violent crime have been decreasing since 2006. Moreover, after a dramatic increase in firearms sales and ownership after the last Presidential election including an increase in first time firearms purchases and an increase in firearms carry permits, citizen disarmament zealots and organizations predicted that there would be a corresponding increase in homicides and other violent crime. However, the U.S. homicide rate decreased from 5.0 per 100,000 in 2009 to 4.8 per 100,000 in 2010 and all other violent crime decreased as well. Preliminary data from 2011 shows all Violent Crime was down 6.4%, Murder down 5.7%, Rape down 5.1%, Robbery down 7.7%, and Aggravated Assault down 5.9%. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/december/crime-stats_121911/crime-stats_121911 By contrast, The United Kingdom enacted extreme firearms bans years ago, and gun crime in the U.K. has doubled in a decade. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6438601/Gun-crime-doubles-in-a-decade.html It is no wonder that a Gallup Poll of October 26, 2011 found that 60% of those surveyed supported enforcing current gun laws more strictly and NOT pass any new laws while only 35% responded to enforce current gun laws more strictly and pass new gun control laws. http://www.gallup.com/poll/150341/Record-Low-Favor-Handgun-Ban.aspx Citizen disarmament zealots and their organizations ignore these inconvenient facts because they debunk their propaganda, deception. Furthermore, the vast majority of law enforcement officers receive their firearms training from NRA Certified Instructors, and the NRA has numerous firearms safety, marksmanship, and self-defense training programs for civilians including their award winning Refuse To Be A Victim Program. The NRA is far from being a "Criminal organization, and is, in fact, a criminal's worst enemy. http://www.nrahq.org/law/index.asp http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/ http://www.nrahq.org/education/index.asp http://www.nrahq.org/women/index.aspThe national conversation in the US over the last few years has shifted more and more from being pro gun control because more and more people are waking up and realizing that the founding fathers were right... To be truly free and safe, each citizen can and should bear arms. I'm tired of hearing about what the founding fathers thought, not only were they alive nigh 200-300 years ago, but our country shouldn't be based on what a few guys thought was right a long ass time ago. What was relevant back then is still relevant... the founding fathers thought people should be able to own firearms to protect their own property. It's not that hard to understand. People had private property back then too. Are you serious? If someone breaks into my property and tries to claim it from me by threatening me with a gun, I can just walk over to the nearest police station, and then they will look at some papers and then reclaim my property for me. I'm sure it would work the same in USA. USA have the most capable police force in the world. Why don't you let it do its job? I believe that the reason why USA have such a hard time to restrict guns is because it's such a big industry, with a high consumtion both from civilians and the military, so the industry is pressuring the government against change. That's how all the mega-industries operate. They do what they can to protect their own interests.
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Says a dude who thinks "brandishing a firearm" in an atempt to cause bad guys tO flee and thinks shooting someone in the legs is "just as easy". As you put it. As Ive said no proper training and never been in a high stress high danger situation. Nor have you been taught to deal with it properly.
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On July 21 2012 09:14 ninini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 08:25 Belial88 wrote:On July 21 2012 07:31 darthfoley wrote:On July 21 2012 07:30 StarStrider wrote:People should absolutely be allowed to own and carry personal protection firearms. This is just another example of why, and a great example of what kind of situation that those of us who 'go packing' do it to prevent. For those of you who see the NRA as a 'lords of war' gun lobby organization.... Here is some info for you. Because of the NRA our right to Keep and BEAR arms have been increasingly restored over last several years and more citizens are now free to carry firearms in more places since the year 1900. Yet, homicides, including homicides with firearms, as well as all other violent crime have been decreasing since 2006. Moreover, after a dramatic increase in firearms sales and ownership after the last Presidential election including an increase in first time firearms purchases and an increase in firearms carry permits, citizen disarmament zealots and organizations predicted that there would be a corresponding increase in homicides and other violent crime. However, the U.S. homicide rate decreased from 5.0 per 100,000 in 2009 to 4.8 per 100,000 in 2010 and all other violent crime decreased as well. Preliminary data from 2011 shows all Violent Crime was down 6.4%, Murder down 5.7%, Rape down 5.1%, Robbery down 7.7%, and Aggravated Assault down 5.9%. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/december/crime-stats_121911/crime-stats_121911 By contrast, The United Kingdom enacted extreme firearms bans years ago, and gun crime in the U.K. has doubled in a decade. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6438601/Gun-crime-doubles-in-a-decade.html It is no wonder that a Gallup Poll of October 26, 2011 found that 60% of those surveyed supported enforcing current gun laws more strictly and NOT pass any new laws while only 35% responded to enforce current gun laws more strictly and pass new gun control laws. http://www.gallup.com/poll/150341/Record-Low-Favor-Handgun-Ban.aspx Citizen disarmament zealots and their organizations ignore these inconvenient facts because they debunk their propaganda, deception. Furthermore, the vast majority of law enforcement officers receive their firearms training from NRA Certified Instructors, and the NRA has numerous firearms safety, marksmanship, and self-defense training programs for civilians including their award winning Refuse To Be A Victim Program. The NRA is far from being a "Criminal organization, and is, in fact, a criminal's worst enemy. http://www.nrahq.org/law/index.asp http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/ http://www.nrahq.org/education/index.asp http://www.nrahq.org/women/index.aspThe national conversation in the US over the last few years has shifted more and more from being pro gun control because more and more people are waking up and realizing that the founding fathers were right... To be truly free and safe, each citizen can and should bear arms. I'm tired of hearing about what the founding fathers thought, not only were they alive nigh 200-300 years ago, but our country shouldn't be based on what a few guys thought was right a long ass time ago. What was relevant back then is still relevant... the founding fathers thought people should be able to own firearms to protect their own property. It's not that hard to understand. People had private property back then too. Are you serious? If someone breaks into my property and tries to claim it from me by threatening me with a gun, I can just walk over to the nearest police station, and then they will look at some papers and then reclaim my property for me. I'm sure it would work the same in USA. USA have the most capable police force in the world. Why don't you let it do its job? I believe that the reason why USA have such a hard time to restrict guns is because it's such a big industry, with a high consumtion both from civilians and the military, so the industry is pressuring the government against change. That's how all the mega-industries operate. They do what they can to protect their own interests.
Something is wrong with the bolded part
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EPT
