If you're seeing this topic then another mass shooting hap…

On February 17 2018 03:40 Danglars wrote:

The NRA’s power is in its membership that, unlike you, listen and critique people that want to demonize gun owners and ban guns. You just keep pointing at your boogeyman (“hey man I’m right because everybody calls them the boogeyman”) and never the whole issue.

On February 17 2018 03:53 Jockmcplop wrote:
So you aren't denying it then. Good.

It seems like you're being incredibly hostile here considering I agreed with you if the dems are causing problems then this is on them too.

As fa as I can see, you have access obscure facts about single incidents, and then you bring them out when arguing with someone from another country to deflect and confuse them and claim some kind of mad moral high ground.

Also, coincidentally, this seems to allow you to completely avoid answering genuine questions by ranting.

On February 17 2018 03:56 Plansix wrote:

And scaring the ever living shit out of their members. You forget that my family owns guns and my brother is an avid gun owner. I deal with the NRA's lies all the time. They constantly lie about a bans on guns or taking guns away from people who own them.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/04/08/473581490/episode-694-the-gun-that-wouldnt-shoot

Let us never forget that the gun industry and gun lobby refuses to allow people to invent or market ways to make guns safer. The invention would be imperfect, flawed and need refinement, but that doesn't matter. It isn't enough that they don't support people trying to invent ways to make guns safer, they have to kill any attempts to make them safer.

On February 17 2018 04:07 Jockmcplop wrote:
At least when someone asks me a question danglars I actually answer it instead of trying to deflect by having a go at someone.
Yeah I backtracked a little bit when confronted with something that i wasn't previously aware of, what else would you have me do?
I suppose I could have just ranted at you and pretended that you never said it in the first place. Is that what passes for honest debate with you?

Frankly this entire tirade you are on is literally just a distraction because i asked if you would deny that the NRA refuse to let republicans move towards sensible gun control anyway.

Barely a month ago the powerful Louisiana Sheriffs' Association was lining up behind a bill to ban toy guns from public schools.

Now the legislation is dead, a victim of Republican infighting and the politically potent National Rifle Association.

"It just did not sit well," said Rep. Dodie Horton, R-Haughton and sponsor of the measure.

The prefiled proposal, House Bill 43, was aimed at helping law enforcement combat what officials call a growing problem – students bringing toy guns to public schools that look identical to the real thing.

Banning the guns, Horton said, would help prevent police from having to make a split-second call, and injure or kill a student wielding a lookalike pistol.

The prohibition included toy guns, water guns, air guns and others "substantially similar" in color and appearance to a genuine firearm.

First-time violators faced fines of up to $250 and six months in jail, though Horton said she planned to change the penalties amid complaints about elementary students being jailed.

Horton took up the cause at the request of Bossier Parish Sheriff Julian Whittington, a self-described "gun guy" who called the fake guns "so real it is scary."

However, the Louisiana Legislature is considered one of the most gun-friendly bodies in the nation."

On February 17 2018 03:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
There's nothing unique about USA compared to the rich world other than gun controls, or lack thereof. It was you who wrote:



with the direct implication that the "unique" situation of USA is that blacks are responsible for the high gun violence in USA. There is no way other way to take it. Otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it.

So currently your train of thought is:
USA is in a unique situation in regard to its high gun crime.
USA is unique not because of it's unique lack of effective gun controls.
USA is unique becuase its population is not homogenous.
Gun crime occur predominantly among blacks.

Then "But hey man, going with your logic that must mean blacks are violent people right?"

You claim to be asking for controlling for ethnic population, wealth, but quite honestly I don't see what ethnic population has to do with anything unless you are saying that ethnic population (whatever that means in this context) is responsible for your perception that gun controls are ineffective in USA. Do different ethnic groups have different abilities to purchase guns?

But hey man, going with your logic white people simply more predisposed towards school shootings and Vegas shootings right?

But Rofl don't take this out of statement out of context. The point I was making is that if you don't control for things such as ethnic population, wealth, and various other different factors you can make any assumption you want. It's a statistical fact that whites on average commit far more school shootings and Vegas shootings in the United States than any other ethnic group in the United States. Going by the logic you guys are using, that would make white people predisposed towards shooting school children and concertgoers , when you and I know both know that's a load of horse shit, and that there are way more factors then simple numbers.

On February 17 2018 04:37 Jockmcplop wrote:
The 'half remembered news story' you are referring to is actually quite alot of news coverage. Pretty much all of the mainstream media acknowledges that the NRA and republican establishment is the biggest problem when it comes to passing any gun legislation at all. You could argue whether or not this is a good thing but I'm struggling to see how anyone could deny it, even if the democrats have played their part at times.

I'll give you one example:
http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/politics/legislature/article_986cb390-2602-11e7-814a-e7d182461ecb.html

On February 17 2018 04:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
Danglars can I ask what it is you think you have quoted me as saying?
The only thing I said is that the biggest problem is the lack of movement towards gun control from politicians. I didn't originally blame anyone or act in a partisan way. I stick by that, because I'm no fan of the democrats or the republicans really, or the system in the US that allows lobbyists such as the NRA such incredible power over something they have a vested interest in that is so important for public safety.

On February 17 2018 05:34 Danglars wrote:

You may refer to the actual posts that quote you. I don’t know if you’re misremembering now or never read and only skimmed my posts. It matters little to me if you do or don’t, or even care about consistency.

Also curious if you read analytically into news stories, like “powerful this group” and “victim of Republican infighting” and “politically potent.” The one I read on the issue made it out to be just the opposite “jailing kids as young as kindergarteners” and “is not intended to target five year olds but makes no exemption.” All based in some truth, but with heaps of editorializing on top of it.

On February 17 2018 03:07 Danglars wrote:

You’re making a hero’s effort proving you aren’t coming for the guns, you’re in favor of common sense gun regulation.

The problem is “freedom.” “It’s disgusting.”

Plansix/JockMcPlop later on ... ... nobody’s demonizing gun owners and nobody going to take away your guns. The real problem is the NRA.

On February 17 2018 05:10 Nebuchad wrote:
It's really important to continue to frame this as a politician problem rather than a topic of debates and discussions, and I wish more people understood that. So much effort is spent talking to people like Danglars or superstat as if they were ever going to give in or be convinced of anything, or worse, as if what was needed for some non-insane gun control was to convince people like them. It just takes a few days of deafness and inaction and we're back in the cycle of nothing until the next one. We have limited windows and we should use them to have the conversations that matter.

On February 17 2018 05:10 Nebuchad wrote:
It's really important to continue to frame this as a politician problem rather than a topic of debates and discussions, and I wish more people understood that. So much effort is spent talking to people like Danglars or superstat as if they were ever going to give in or be convinced of anything, or worse, as if what was needed for some non-insane gun control was to convince people like them. It just takes a few days of deafness and inaction and we're back in the cycle of nothing until the next one. We have limited windows and we should use them to have the conversations that matter.

On February 17 2018 05:10 Nebuchad wrote:
It's really important to continue to frame this as a politician problem rather than a topic of debates and discussions, and I wish more people understood that. So much effort is spent talking to people like Danglars or superstat as if they were ever going to give in or be convinced of anything, or worse, as if what was needed for some non-insane gun control was to convince people like them. It just takes a few days of deafness and inaction and we're back in the cycle of nothing until the next one. We have limited windows and we should use them to have the conversations that matter.

On February 17 2018 04:45 superstartran wrote:



So basically you came around and agreed that all those statistics trying to cross compare a homogeneous country vs a heterogeneous country is basically bullshit. Ok. Glad we are in agreement.



Also it's incredibly disingenuous to believe that the United States and Japan are basically the same countries with the same culture.

On February 17 2018 05:42 zlefin wrote:

so which conversation is it that you want to have? I mean, I get where you're coming from I think; I'm just not sure what you actually expect/want to happen from a conversation.

On February 17 2018 05:40 Jockmcplop wrote:


I'm calling bullshit on this now. You are claiming to have quoted me (you didn't actually quote anything) as saying something I never said to begin with and then are insisting on arguing with me about it. Go back and take a look for yourself. You look completely ridiculous now.
The post that started this off was this:


That's not a quote, it only half alludes to something I actually said, and its not the basis for the made up thing you then went on to rant at me about.

Get yourself together man.

On February 17 2018 05:48 Dangermousecatdog wrote:

You know, just typing something doesn't make it true. At no point did I particularily agree with you on anything. Though truly, there does seem to be a preponderence of white people who like to shoot at school children and concertgoers in USA. It is interesting that for whatever reason you decided to hone in on ethnicity and urban centres. I live in London which has a large non-white population. I would say of the top of my head London is 60% white. It is both urban and has parts of mostly black population. There was a large gun crime problem, mostly with handguns as opposed to rifles, but effective gun legislation reduced the murder rate significantly. So, in your desperate search for reasons as to why USA is unique, you cast around casting claiming that both ethnicity is and isn't a factor. Well done.

Lastly at no point did I equate American culture with Japanese culture. But interestingly you didn't bring up culture as a reason as to why there are so many school shootings in USA, when it is obvious that the school shooting gun culture in USA IS a cultural problem. Perhaps that should be food for thought for you, but I fear it is wasted on a person who just simply makes up what someone else has written. It appears to be a common theme with you and so I fear, that rather sadly, discussion with you is largely pointless.