EPTThe article isn't clear if all the shots came from the same officer.
The first round of shots clearly came from one of the officers but i can't tell where the 2nd comes from as i don't see smoke or movement in the gun.
Suspect with crowbar killed by police - Page 17
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To keep this thread open for discussion, please READ THIS BEFORE POSTING: The following types of posts are banworthy: - Nation bashing. - Significantly disrespectful posts toward any of the parties involved. Please familiarize yourself with some of the basics on the use of force in the United States before posting in this thread. If you feel the need to post a reaction to the news, post a comment on the youtube video. Don't bring it here. This thread is for a discussion on the topic, and your post better have substance to it. Low content posts will be met with moderator action. Here is a good post by someone with experience in escalation of force training. Read that too. This post might change your opinion of in the incident. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
The article isn't clear if all the shots came from the same officer. The first round of shots clearly came from one of the officers but i can't tell where the 2nd comes from as i don't see smoke or movement in the gun. | ||
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HotCookies
Greece149 Posts
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Nibbler89
884 Posts
That being said in comparison to other videos of cops not realizing they are being watched I've seen this is pretty much as tame and justified as they come. At least the person who got shot had a pretty sizable weapon and was clearly disturbed, breaking windows(according to story) and not listening to orders he must have surely understood / heard. Compare that to the deaf wood carver who was shot in the back/side and killed for not responding to a command he couldn't hear after less than 3 seconds of not complying.The cop wasn't even charged with a crime even though the shooting was found to be unjustified. So if this video makes you sick, you'd probably be near puking after seeing this one if you haven't already. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32083 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:35 SupLilSon wrote: I'm American and I completely agree with him. You hear so many stories about how police in Latin America are criminals, look at our own country. The cops seemingly WANT to use their weapons every chance they get. The guy didn't even swing his weapon before the cop lit him up like a christmas tree. There were at least 2 cops and a police dog there (and if you know anything about American police, that means there were at least 3-4 squad cars). If they couldn't subdue one man with a shovel without the use of deadly force, then they are useless cops. I honestly don't care if the cop's life was threatened. That is a very real consequence of the job, and as a police officer you are expected and trained to be able to think clearly even during a life threatening situation. That cop was obviously trigger happy and unloaded the second he saw a change in pace of the situation. Anyone who thinks this is alright is delusional and it's no wonder law enforcement is so heavily resented here in America. So ripping out the non-lethal tazer and walking towards the cop with your weapon cocked back isn't good enough?? You actually have to take a crowbar upside the skull first? Option A was the tazer and that was used. A crowbar, tire iron or shovel is breaking whatever bone it comes in contact with. I'm not exactly sure what you expected to be done here On January 25 2012 06:37 Sgonzo wrote: tazers effective ranegd is 10 metres or 30 feet A projectile tazer is also a lot less accurate at 30 feet than it is at 10. And that dude looks like he is wearing a thick hoodie, which I would assume is a lot harder to piecer than a tshirt or flesh on his face. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:40 seiferoth10 wrote: Once they attack armed officers, it's the officers' duty to protect their own life. Which he did with the first five shots. Hell, he probably did it with the first two. Not only that, it's the tazing officer's fault that he was in harm's way in the first place. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32083 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:41 semantics wrote: Watching the video.. is it the same officer shotting the guy 10 times? can't tell. It really changes the dynamic if the 2nd officer after the first officer shot the guy, drew his guy to open fire as well. The article isn't clear if all the shots came from the same officer. The first round of shots clearly came from one of the officers but i can't tell where the 2nd comes from as i don't see smoke or movement in the gun. 1st 5 are the officer on the right, 2nd five are the 2nd officer. 1st one hits him head on, 2nd one hits him as he is still standing and moving after five shots | ||
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Kashll
United States1117 Posts
I'm not even personally sure if the force used was excessive or not. I'm not aware of standard police procedure enough to know. It seems like they did try to use a taser at first. The bottom line is that no one should be forced to make a decision like that in the heat of the situation (yes I know they're trained) but shit happens sometimes. The fact that we're watching a video of this and creating a thread means that in 99% of the cases like this the situation is resolved without lethal force. So i see this as sort of an inevitable statistic when idiots come at police offers with weapons. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:35 azdzaazfaz wrote: I get really scared when I read some of your statements. How do you think the rest of the worlds police forces handles potentially dangerous situations? Do you honestly believe shooting that guy ten fucking times to DEATH was the only proper solution to that situation? And just a side thought, what the FUCK was the use of the dog? Send the beast on that metal swinging fuck wad, or wrestle that ass to the ground, or pepper spray the shit out of him, or use the 5 TRAINED POLICE OFFICERS to 1 STREET PUNK advantage and overwhelm that sorry ass. But no, in America, shooting the fucker dead is the proper response apparently, an attitude which you bring with you when you meddle in other nations affairs across the globe. I honestly can't find words for how sick your country has become. I apologize for generalizing like this, but you guys are fucking insane. Yea, that's exactly what I was thinking. Obviously cops around the world just go around capping criminals, because you know thats their job. Haven't any of you seen Training Day? Get a clue... cops are supposed to be protecting citizens and stopping criminals. Not driving around like a street gang putting 10 bullets into one man. If 3+ trained officers can't take on 1 man without first killing him, then they need to be fired. I for one don't like the idea of armed maniacs gunning people down in the streets and calling it "self defense". | ||
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Castiel
United Kingdom44 Posts
Tazer - If he's wearing heavy clothing, Tazer is effectively useless. Whilst other options may have been open to the cops, just remember that the cop is probably married, has children and wants to go home at the end of the day. One swing of that crowbar could mean he never will. | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10660 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:40 Stratos_speAr wrote: Unless you have vision problems it's not that hard to notice. How about you actually come up with some points instead of coming up for a BS response to try to invalidate my statements? i think ur the one with vision problems, you posted earlier why they didnt use tasers. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
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Disturbed1976
3 Posts
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wunsun
Canada622 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:41 semantics wrote: Watching the video.. is it the same officer shotting the guy 10 times? can't tell. It really changes the dynamic if the 2nd officer after the first officer shot the guy, drew his guy to open fire as well. The article isn't clear if all the shots came from the same officer. The first round of shots clearly came from one of the officers but i can't tell where the 2nd comes from as i don't see smoke or movement in the gun. Rewatching it, I am not sure. It does change my whole perspective as I am the one advocating for the dog to be released between the two strings of shots. I was under the assumption that it was the same person shotting. However, I am not sure anymore. If it isn't then, I guess I don't think its excessive (entire event) since it's not the same guy ahooting. | ||
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timwac
Scotland93 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:38 jeremycafe wrote: Completely? LOL. So when the guy makes what appears to be an attempted use of a deadly weapon, the copy should curl up in a ball and hope it doesnt hurt? Fuck off you hippie. They made an attempt to subdue him, and then he made a move towards the cop. COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED. In the United Kingdom, the average police officer does not carry a firearm. Do you think they have never been faced with someone with a crow bar? Of course they fucking have. Did it end up in the police officer being dead, ofc not! There are various ways in which to take down this guy without killing him. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:35 SupLilSon wrote: I'm American and I completely agree with him. You hear so many stories about how police in Latin America are criminals, look at our own country. The cops seemingly WANT to use their weapons every chance they get. The guy didn't even swing his weapon before the cop lit him up like a christmas tree. There were at least 2 cops and a police dog there (and if you know anything about American police, that means there were at least 3-4 squad cars). If they couldn't subdue one man with a shovel without the use of deadly force, then they are useless cops. I honestly don't care if the cop's life was threatened. That is a very real consequence of the job, and as a police officer you are expected and trained to be able to think clearly even during a life threatening situation. That cop was obviously trigger happy and unloaded the second he saw a change in pace of the situation. Anyone who thinks this is alright is delusional and it's no wonder law enforcement is so heavily resented here in America. The insight you bring to the topic is very, very enlightening. You're clearly very well informed on the matter. Have you worked with police officers? Or were you a criminal who's had experience with them? Perhaps you work as an instructor for police training? In all seriousness, someone who has actual experience in the matter has been posting in the thread and it would be nice if people actually read what he's posted. That's the annoying thing with this topic (and so many other internet discussions). People who have no experience in the matter still talk as if they do and don't listen to those who have actual experience in the matter. People just don't know humility and how to be quiet and listen to someone who knows what he's talking about. It's an unfortunate tendency and it's one of the reasons the SC2 strategy forums are void of professionals discussing the game. Slightly off topic I'm sorry but I would really like to push people towards reading what Eternal posts. Thanks  | ||
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Hargol
United States52 Posts
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IveReturned
Turkey258 Posts
Policemen were doing this against the laws I wish they got expelled from their jobs and spend long years in prison. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:43 Castiel wrote: Pepper Spray - proven as an ineffective option against highly aggressive people. It doesn't not incapacitate, it merely takes away a suspects sight if you are lucky. Tazer - If he's wearing heavy clothing, Tazer is effectively useless. Whilst other options may have been open to the cops, just remember that the cop is probably married, has children and wants to go home at the end of the day. One swing of that crowbar could mean he never will. Not justification for just blindly killing a guy. He might have a family. They might depend on him. He might be under the effects of hard drugs that are significantly changing his decision-making process. You have no clue, so why do you just get to open up ten shots into a dude just like that, especially when he wasn't even using a gun or a ranged weapon of any kind? | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32083 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:42 Stratos_speAr wrote: Which he did with the first five shots. Hell, he probably did it with the first two. Not only that, it's the tazing officer's fault that he was in harm's way in the first place. No, I would suspect that it was probably because he was a cop tasked with taking down a dude armed with a crowbar. He'd still be in harm's way if he shot it ta 30ft at the very edge of the range. The guy came at the officers | ||
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Anabolicqt
United States69 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:39 Sclol wrote: well they clearly werent french otherwise they would have surrenderd LOL. I needed a good laugh on my birthday. Thank you sir. | ||
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