Thought this was just sad, This happened pretty close to my house in the Philippines. I guess I just don't understand how someone would save an animal before their own children. Did a search didnt see it on TL boards.
MANILA, Philippines (UPDATE) – Fire killed 2 children in Las Piñas Friday morning allegedly after their father decided to save his fighting roosters first.
Authorities said a fire broke out in Manggahan Village, BF Resort Drive in Las Piñas at 10:55 a.m.
Two children, identified as Adrian, 5, and John Rick Luto, 2, were killed after being trapped in the second floor of their home.
The victims' mother, Maria, blamed her husband, Orlando, for letting 2 of their kids die. She said Orlando rescued his fighting roosters first and neglected the children.
“Bitbit bitbit niya ‘yung mga manok tapos sinasabi nila sa kanya, ‘’Yung anak mo nandoon,’ pero wala lang siyang pakialam,” said one of Orlando’s children.
The victims' father, meanwhile, passed the blame to his other children who were tasked to look after their younger siblings.
"Sila ang nagaalaga diyan sa taas bakit ako ang aakusahan nila?” he said.
The Luto couple has 13 children, 4 of whom were at home when the fire struck. Two of their children escaped the fire.
All of the families belongings were burned in the fire, which razed some 25 homes.
Firefighters took one hour to put out the fire.
On Thursday, 2 children were also killed as fire razed their home in Lorenzo Compound, Barangay Talon Uno in Las Piñas. -- Reports from Niko Baua, ABS-CBN News; Alex Calda and Ricky Velasco, radio dzMM
On December 31 2011 14:57 jamster1211 wrote: what does the philipino part mean?
Loose translations:
“Bitbit bitbit niya ‘yung mga manok tapos sinasabi nila sa kanya, ‘’Yung anak mo nandoon,’ pero wala lang siyang pakialam,” said one of Orlando’s children.
"He kept on carrying out the chickens, while they told him 'Your children are there,' but he didn't care."
"Sila ang nagaalaga diyan sa taas bakit ako ang aakusahan nila?”
"They were the ones who were taking care of them up there, why am I the one you're accusing?"
Wow...I can't believe there are people out there who are actually like this.
I don't understand why TL general forums are always tragic ass news about people getting hurt or dying horrific deaths. WTF is wrong with you people? Can't you post happier stuff?
On December 31 2011 14:55 Frumpysnoo wrote: He probably just chickened out.
Oh god man, seriously?
I honestly feel terrible for laughing
HAHA oh my lord!!
This isn't that much of a shock though if you read the story. According to the father the other children are supposed to be in charge of them. As sick as this sounds, in a relatively poor country, this point of view is kind of legit. That's just the way I read the story, sorry if it offends anyone.
The title made me gasp and chuckle in confusion. Then I read the article and just...
Wow, like... economically, it makes sense. But I don't know he could have brought himself to do it. On top of that: "All of the families belongings were burned in the fire, which razed some 25 homes."
Like... you lost all your belongings and you sacrifice your kids for some fighting roosters? Even if they were champions, I doubt the exchange was worth it...
This man has to be the father of that many children? Makes you really hate the Catholic church, its stance on contraception, and its heavy influence in the Philippines. I'm not saying he wouldn't have had 13 kids anyways (using contraception is something only a responsible person would do, which he doesn't seem to be). I'm usually against barbaric punishments, but this person is a great candidate for sterilization.
Yes, I know that education, especially of a country's women, is the largest deterrent towards gigantic families, but a more accepting attitude towards contraception never hurts.
They always just say burned to death like nothing. What happens is alot of them pass out and dont wake up. Needless to say i just cant imagine that. so sad
On December 31 2011 15:06 Elbee wrote: That's pretty depressing to think he'd save chickens over his own kids
It's easy to judge him while we're sitting behind computers lol. If his economic situation is bad and those chickens were earning the food on his table then it's quite understandable he saved the chickens actually.
Should this man be charged for their death if it was proven that he had the opportunity to save his children and instead went for the roosters? For those who don't know cock fighting is a main source of income and that's the only reason i can come up with that would explain his poor choice. not acceptable but probably his thinking. In the Area I live with my wife they have roosters galore; you cant go outside without almost tripping over them and they are all bread solely for cock fighting.
On December 31 2011 15:05 Ksi wrote: This man has to be the father of that many children? Makes you really hate the Catholic church, its stance on contraception, and its heavy influence in the Philippines. I'm not saying he wouldn't have had 13 kids anyways (using contraception is something only a responsible person would do, which he doesn't seem to be). I'm usually against barbaric punishments, but this person is a great candidate for sterilization.
Yes, I know that education, especially of a country's women, is the largest deterrent towards gigantic families, but a more accepting attitude towards contraception never hurts.
as far as I know Catholic church over there has allowed for condoms and contraceptives. I know they have banned the morning after pill though.
This goes to show that any imbecile and human trash are capable of coitus and have children, yet how many percent of them are actually qualified to be parents? Hope he gets ostracized by their community.
I kinda feel this is joke post simply because what the OP quoted from the people's mouths. Is that really what their language sounds like written in english, it wasn't translated anywhere else into english itself?
On December 31 2011 15:05 Ksi wrote: This man has to be the father of that many children? Makes you really hate the Catholic church, its stance on contraception, and its heavy influence in the Philippines. I'm not saying he wouldn't have had 13 kids anyways (using contraception is something only a responsible person would do, which he doesn't seem to be). I'm usually against barbaric punishments, but this person is a great candidate for sterilization.
Yes, I know that education, especially of a country's women, is the largest deterrent towards gigantic families, but a more accepting attitude towards contraception never hurts.
as far as I know Catholic church over there has allowed for condoms and contraceptives. I know they have banned the morning after pill though.
Nope, they are not allowed by the Catholic Church but condoms are readily available at any convenience store. It's still pretty Catholicy here though. No abortion, no Divorces.
Regardless of who was "in charge" of the children, roosters or any non-human come second to a human in danger. I was involved in a fire, my apartment complex caught fire, but luckily stopped 2 units from mine, however the structural integrity was compromised, so we still had to move.. Anyways, once we knew of the fire, we rushed home and repeatedly begged the firemen to go rescue our cat. Even though most people were accounted for, and about 15 firemen were sitting around doing nothing at any given time, they still didn't go check on our cat until way later.
I wonder if the Philippine fire prevention system feels the same way about pets/objects of wealth any different due to it not being a 1st world country.
Also,
On December 31 2011 14:55 Frumpysnoo wrote: He probably just chickened out.
On December 31 2011 15:05 Ksi wrote: This man has to be the father of that many children? Makes you really hate the Catholic church, its stance on contraception, and its heavy influence in the Philippines. I'm not saying he wouldn't have had 13 kids anyways (using contraception is something only a responsible person would do, which he doesn't seem to be). I'm usually against barbaric punishments, but this person is a great candidate for sterilization.
Yes, I know that education, especially of a country's women, is the largest deterrent towards gigantic families, but a more accepting attitude towards contraception never hurts.
as far as I know Catholic church over there has allowed for condoms and contraceptives. I know they have banned the morning after pill though.
The official stance of the Catholic Church worldwide is that no unnatural contraception may be used. Only natural family planning.
On December 31 2011 15:15 Zooper31 wrote: I kinda feel this is joke post simply because what the OP quoted from the people's mouths. Is that really what their language sounds like written in english, it wasn't translated anywhere else into english itself?
Ouch...
Well ABS-CBN is pretty established here in the Philippines, not sure why it wasn't translated though.
I can take a go at it, I'm not the best though...
"Bitbit bitbit niya ‘yung mga manok tapos sinasabi nila sa kanya, ‘’Yung anak mo nandoon,’ pero wala lang siyang pakialam"
He was holding the chickens and after they told him "your son is over there", but he didn't care.
Take it with a grain of salt, I'm sure someone else can translate it better...
Edit: Forgot this part, but taken from the context of the article it should already have been obvious...
"Sila ang nagaalaga diyan sa taas bakit ako ang aakusahan nila?
They were in charge up stairs, why am I the one being accused?
On December 31 2011 15:14 bubblegumbo wrote: This goes to show that any imbecile and human trash are capable of coitus and have children, yet how many percent of them are actually qualified to be parents? Hope he gets ostracized by their community.
He still saved lives.
He still saved animals regardless. ( Animalia / Gallus gallus ) instead of ( Animalia / Homo sapien ) both of Animalia. Maybe he viewed the Gallus gallus group higher for some reason?
On December 31 2011 15:05 Ksi wrote: This man has to be the father of that many children? Makes you really hate the Catholic church, its stance on contraception, and its heavy influence in the Philippines. I'm not saying he wouldn't have had 13 kids anyways (using contraception is something only a responsible person would do, which he doesn't seem to be). I'm usually against barbaric punishments, but this person is a great candidate for sterilization.
Yes, I know that education, especially of a country's women, is the largest deterrent towards gigantic families, but a more accepting attitude towards contraception never hurts.
<_< Someone always has to bring religion in
Anyways, this is pretty sad that his economic situation causes him to think this way s:
Man...this article is a gold mine for puns; so bad D:
Guy was an idiot for valuing his chicken over children, but I suppose if he thought his other children were going to look after the two that died, makes it a bit better, but in no ways justifiable. Tragic story :\
Yeah, cause arnt chickens worth like 30 cents a piece or something? Those kids could of grow up worth millions.. Strictly from a finacial standpoint.. but damn id let all my shit burn before my parrot. (no kids)
On December 31 2011 15:29 Cuh wrote: Yeah, cause arnt chickens worth like 30 cents a piece or something? Those kids could of grow up worth millions.. Strictly from a finacial standpoint.. but damn id let all my shit burn before my parrot. (no kids)
Kids also cost tons to raise when compared to chickens, and are "riskier" investments. Financially correct, but ethically wrong.
Finally, after years of people posting whatever depressing article that comes across their path on TL General Forums, the backlash has occurred. No one was prepared
On December 31 2011 15:05 Ksi wrote: This man has to be the father of that many children? Makes you really hate the Catholic church, its stance on contraception, and its heavy influence in the Philippines. I'm not saying he wouldn't have had 13 kids anyways (using contraception is something only a responsible person would do, which he doesn't seem to be). I'm usually against barbaric punishments, but this person is a great candidate for sterilization.
Yes, I know that education, especially of a country's women, is the largest deterrent towards gigantic families, but a more accepting attitude towards contraception never hurts.
<_< Someone always has to bring religion in
Yeah, to debate which of human evil or religion came first is pointless. It's like asking, "what came first, the chicken or the egg?"
The puns are funny, but this is seriously screwed up. I wonder what it was like to even have him as a father. Hope they died as painlessly as possible.
Cock fighting must be a really lucrative business over there.
For this guy to have 13 kids to begin with is beyond me, since he obviously doesn't like kids. This new is most saddening, but it's a difficult to read the subject of this thread out loud without a sense of comical disbelief.
On December 31 2011 15:58 Introvert wrote: The puns are funny, but this is seriously screwed up. I wonder what it was like to even have him as a father. Hope they died as painlessly as possible.
How does this guy have 13 kids to begin with? It doesn't make sense financially (I'm assuming he is poor based on he choose chicken > kids) and he clearly is willing to point the finger at them for his faults.
On December 31 2011 15:58 Introvert wrote: The puns are funny, but this is seriously screwed up. I wonder what it was like to even have him as a father. Hope they died as painlessly as possible.
Sadly, I doubt it. Dying from burning to death is probably very very painful. Hell, just getting burned slightly is already painful enough for me.
On December 31 2011 15:58 Introvert wrote: The puns are funny, but this is seriously screwed up. I wonder what it was like to even have him as a father. Hope they died as painlessly as possible.
Sadly, I doubt it. Dying from burning to death is probably very very painful. Hell, just getting burned slightly is already painful enough for me.
I guess the father figured his kids were intelligent enough to get out on their own, while the chickens were not? Still doesn't excuse what happened, but people do strange things in times of crisis.
on one note, no one's mentioned whether or not the fighting roosters are their only source of income, and not simply his "beloved entertainment". on another note. they're still his children.
on another nother note. i am having extremely mixed feelings about the responses in this thread.
On December 31 2011 16:18 Angel_ wrote: on one note, no one's mentioned whether or not the fighting roosters are their only source of income, and not simply his "beloved entertainment".
Are you serious?
Are you seriously even comparing a source of income to a human life here?
On December 31 2011 16:18 Angel_ wrote: on one note, no one's mentioned whether or not the fighting roosters are their only source of income, and not simply his "beloved entertainment". on another note. they're still his children.
on another nother note. i am having extremely mixed feelings about the responses in this thread.
Would you care to elaborate on what has scrambled your thoughts about this thread?
If you look at it from a SC2 point of view, it's like whether to save 2 out of the 14 gateways or the 2 nexi. Except in the real world those gateways may actually generate income for you and if you don't save those gateways you there's a backlash from society and law.
On December 31 2011 16:36 d00fuz wrote: If you look at it from a SC2 point of view, it's like whether to save 2 out of the 14 gateways or the 2 nexi. Except in the real world those gateways may actually generate income for you and if you don't save those gateways you there's a backlash from society and law.
If we were looking at it from a SC2 point of view couldn't he just recall his 2 children?
On December 31 2011 16:46 ThaZenith wrote: I don't understand if this is serious. I mean, it's an English article with untranslated 'statements' from the child/father?
Maybe not, seeing as how 90% of the comments here are silly. Whatever, lol.
no dude, it happened. Do you think the TL mods would let a false story run afowl like this? Eggactly.
On December 31 2011 16:18 Angel_ wrote: on one note, no one's mentioned whether or not the fighting roosters are their only source of income, and not simply his "beloved entertainment".
Are you serious?
Are you seriously even comparing a source of income to a human life here?
Gallus gallus is still life even compared to Homo sapien...
On December 31 2011 16:18 Angel_ wrote: on one note, no one's mentioned whether or not the fighting roosters are their only source of income, and not simply his "beloved entertainment".
Are you serious?
Are you seriously even comparing a source of income to a human life here?
Gallus gallus is still life even compared to Homo sapien...
Last time I checked, a human life isn't worth a jack. I think the history of the mankind has proven thousands times that it has never been worth anything.
On December 31 2011 16:18 Angel_ wrote: on one note, no one's mentioned whether or not the fighting roosters are their only source of income, and not simply his "beloved entertainment".
Are you serious?
Are you seriously even comparing a source of income to a human life here?
Gallus gallus is still life even compared to Homo sapien...
Last time I checked, a human life isn't worth a jack. I think the history of the mankind has proven thousands times that it has never been worth anything.
guys cmon when you are given such a summarized, simplified situation with conditions only being, which do I save first, chickens or children, obviously all (i'd hope) would say children. But of course there were a lot of other factors, both mentioned in the article and probably some unmentioned. Without making it sound controversial they're not going to get as much attention as they are now. Keep that in mind, and always read news with a grain of salt.
On December 31 2011 17:27 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: guys cmon when you are given such a summarized, simplified situation with conditions only being, which do I save first, chickens or children, obviously all (i'd hope) would say children. But of course there were a lot of other factors, both mentioned in the article and probably some unmentioned. Without making it sound controversial they're not going to get as much attention as they are now. Keep that in mind, and always read news with a grain of salt.
in all liklihood he's just a drunk gambling addict who lost his home in a fire and legitimately thought 'fuck all' about going in again to save his kids. If we can't comment on 'liklihoods' we are stuck with the vague article and nothing to discuss.
On December 31 2011 16:18 Angel_ wrote: on one note, no one's mentioned whether or not the fighting roosters are their only source of income, and not simply his "beloved entertainment".
Are you serious?
Are you seriously even comparing a source of income to a human life here?
Yeah because to support a family of 13 you sure as hell need a source of income to put food on the table.
On December 31 2011 18:24 xelnaga_boss wrote: So the mods are allowing the puns to continue after such a tragic incident where 2 children were killed? Is this what the TL community has come to?
If it's okay to make puns/jokes at the death of 2 children, I guess nothing is off limits, not even 9/11:
On December 31 2011 14:56 AegonC wrote: Why didn't the mother try to save the children?
that is a great question. Throwing all the blame onto her husband, but did she try? The story doesn't really say
Probable b/c of how a mans life are regarded as lesser from woman and children life when it comes to this kind of situation. She felt like her life wasnt worth risking by saving her kids, by the mans life was. Im not trolling here, there was a really good video about this on YouTube a few days ago.. let me see if i kind find it.
edit here it is, its really interesting. You should have a look if these kind of question interest you.
Q: What's Al Qaida's favorite football team? A: The New York Jets
Like I said, you either laugh at the puns in this thead and the 9/11 jokes together, or you don't laugh at them at all.
I lol'd!
Seriously, quit being a douche, and relax.
People die a lot everyday, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Crack a joke, laugh, crack open a beer, relax... you never know, you might be next
On December 31 2011 18:27 garlicface wrote: Edit: Oh it was a temp ban. Maybe you should take this time to stop acting like a fighting cock and start acting like a chicken on the free range.
dude, don't make jokes like that on tl, you might be banned.
Q: What's Al Qaida's favorite football team? A: The New York Jets
Like I said, you either laugh at the puns in this thead and the 9/11 jokes together, or you don't laugh at them at all.
I lol'd!
Seriously, quit being a douche, and relax.
[ A lot of people die everyday, ] and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Crack a joke, laugh, crack open a beer, relax... you never know, you might be next
Q: What's Al Qaida's favorite football team? A: The New York Jets
Like I said, you either laugh at the puns in this thead and the 9/11 jokes together, or you don't laugh at them at all.
I lol'd!
Seriously, quit being a douche, and relax.
[ A lot of people die everyday, ] and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Crack a joke, laugh, crack open a beer, relax... you never know, you might be next
On December 31 2011 14:55 Frumpysnoo wrote: He probably just chickened out.
User was temp banned for this post.
LOL, so fking hilarious
how can he be banned for this?
it is hilarious. And even though it's a pun he is actually sharing an opinion. Though I guess the temp ban is because if you post such a short line with a pun in it, we can't tell if it's a real/true opinion or just a joke taking up space. I guess that's why xD
On December 31 2011 14:55 Frumpysnoo wrote: He probably just chickened out.
User was temp banned for this post.
How do you get ban for saying this? He probably really did chickened out. Whoever was the mod that ban him is lame. He's probably gonna get butt hurt and ban me too just for sharing my opinion.
On December 31 2011 14:55 Frumpysnoo wrote: He probably just chickened out.
User was temp banned for this post.
How do you get ban for saying this? He probably really did chickened out. Whoever was the mod that ban him is lame. He's probably gonna get butt hurt and ban me too just for sharing my opinion.
So many childrens did they have also, I wonder if the situation would be different if they only had 2 childrens. I mean the Father is obviously cold hearthed no matter what.
Honestly the moderation of this forum is retarded. ban me who cares. You can't say anything other than an automated bullshit response or you get warned/banned.
On December 31 2011 14:55 Frumpysnoo wrote: He probably just chickened out.
User was temp banned for this post.
How do you get ban for saying this? He probably really did chickened out. Whoever was the mod that ban him is lame. He's probably gonna get butt hurt and ban me too just for sharing my opinion.
Frumpysnoo was just temp banned for 2 days by heyoka.
That account was created on 2011-04-02 12:49:58 and had 90 posts.
On December 31 2011 19:58 nomatch353 wrote: Omg, there are many stupid retards in TL...
Seriously, making fun of children dying? You guys are actually worse than the father.
No, no we're not. Because if making jokes about an absurd descision is worse than leaving 2 children to die while you go save chickens which are probably in less danger anyway then I am really sad about the state of society.
So we are all making assumptions that this was not a misunderstanding between the family members on who that was supposed to take the kid? Ok let's go, THE FATHER IS A CUNT!
On December 31 2011 21:15 toopham wrote: Sometimes Teamliquid forum reminds me of North Korea.
Pretty harsh comparison, but I agree that moderation on TL is getting too strict. You can barely say ur opinion nowadays if it's another opinion then most people have.
Hard to make out from this article what happened. Pretty horrible but regarding responsibility there are some holes, like what was the mother doing while watching him go for the roosters, was she trying to save the children herself or something else?
So sad thing but strange to assume that a newpaper is right about the whole rooster thing and what happened.
On December 31 2011 21:30 Sablar wrote: Hard to make out from this article what happened. Pretty horrible but regarding responsibility there are some holes, like what was the mother doing while watching him go for the roosters, was she trying to save the children herself or something else?
So sad thing but strange to assume that a newpaper is right about the whole rooster thing and what happened.
Yes, I agree that there appears to be more to this than the media tell, but unfortunately the truth doesn't sell quite as good as the a spiced up story.
for you guys being confused why he has 13 kids, it an old popular belief in rural areas that many kids = more help in the farm, chores, labor or whatever is similar.
On December 31 2011 19:42 Longshank wrote: I find nine pages of TL goers jumping to conclusion from a one sided article more disturbing than the article itself.
Most articles are one sided. Fox News has a pro-conservative spin on everything, MSNBC has a pro-liberal spin on everything, and CNN has a USA #1 spin on everything.
On December 31 2011 19:42 Longshank wrote: I find nine pages of TL goers jumping to conclusion from a one sided article more disturbing than the article itself.
Most articles are one sided. Fox News has a pro-conservative spin on everything, MSNBC has a pro-liberal spin on everything, and CNN has a USA #1 spin on everything.
It's not about presentation, its about gathering all the pertinent facts
Dunno, guess he could have been really poor and needed those roosters to make some money back b/c i guess a house burning down doesn't really help economically. Deems kind of fishy tho. And yeah, what were the other members of the family doing?
Am I the only one who honestly laughed at the "chickened out" joke? Why do the mods ban for stuff like that..
Honestly though, I don't see what the big deal is, the man probably just saved what he loved most.
Not to say I agree with it, I'd say it's pretty freakin crazy if you value your chickens more than you value your kids but hey, to each his own, can't judge the guy for his choices.
I thought the chickened out joke was pretty funny. Not nearly offensive enough to ban someone for. Did he know the children were upstairs? If you got 13 of em it may be pretty hard to keep track of em all.
On December 31 2011 21:30 RogerX wrote: It took an hour to take out the fire ? o.O
Must've been huge. I feel sorry for the children :/
Actually the fire razed 25 houses it says. The firefighters taking it down in only 1 hour seems a bit incredible.
I feel bad for the 'chickened out' pun getting banned. It is the best in this thread by far.
The father most likely thought his kids are safe when he first went for the roosters first. And then the fire was getting too big to go for the kids. My dad used to punish me for whenever my little brother did something wrong, as if I was supposed to be his guardian or something, although the age difference is only 2 years.
On December 31 2011 21:30 RogerX wrote: It took an hour to take out the fire ? o.O
Must've been huge. I feel sorry for the children :/
Actually the fire razed 25 houses it says. The firefighters taking it down in only 1 hour seems a bit incredible.
I feel bad for the 'chickened out' pun getting banned. It is the best in this thread by far.
The father most likely thought his kids are safe when he first went for the roosters first. And then the fire was getting too big to go for the kids. My dad used to punish me for whenever my little brother did something wrong, as if I was supposed to be his guardian or something, although the age difference is only 2 years.
You would be surprised how small the houses here. Imagine Favelas but in planes and not in mountains.
I'm really torn on this. Of course, having your children die due to gross negligence is horrible, but I think what the father reasoned was that a poor family of 14 children and no income, simply isn't as well off as a family of 12 children with a source of income. I cannot condone the mindset that makes such a decision (in that the survival of the father's source of money is more important than the lives of 1/7th of his children), but crises warp the way your mind operates. I can understand how he might have justified his choice, but that will never make it the ideal and correct one.
That, or the father simply never considered his children, thinking that the eldest would be responsible enough to assist the others in such a dangerous event. Might be that he never doubted that all his children would be safe. Still a shitty justification, but there you go.
The whole thing just makes me sad, and wish that sometime in the near future, no one is impoverished enough that they need to decide between their chickens and their children.
On another note, was it ever explained why the fire started in the first place? I hope the investigators examine the scene with a fine-toothed comb to find the cause and prevent future occurrences. It'd be best for everyone if the father's decision never had to be made by anyone else again.
Some countries also have much higher infant mortality rates and losing a child isn't the worst thing that could ever happen to someone like it is in first world countries. For some countries losing children is just a part of life.
On December 31 2011 22:52 Aeres wrote: I'm really torn on this. Of course, having your children die due to gross negligence is horrible, but I think what the father reasoned was that a poor family of 14 children and no income, simply isn't as well off as a family of 12 children with a source of income. I cannot condone the mindset that makes such a decision (in that the survival of the father's source of money is more important than the lives of 1/7th of his children), but crises warp the way your mind operates. I can understand how he might have justified his choice, but that will never make it the ideal and correct one.
That, or the father simply never considered his children, thinking that the eldest would be responsible enough to assist the others in such a dangerous event. Might be that he never doubted that all his children would be safe. Still a shitty justification, but there you go.
The whole thing just makes me sad, and wish that sometime in the near future, no one is impoverished enough that they need to decide between their chickens and their children.
On another note, was it ever explained why the fire started in the first place? I hope the investigators examine the scene with a fine-toothed comb to find the cause and prevent future occurrences. It'd be best for everyone if the father's decision never had to be made by anyone else again.
There are hundreds of things that could factor in in his decision, none of which are mentioned in the article. For all we know, he never had a decision to make. It's impossible to pass judgement or even have an opinion when no facts what so ever are presented.
Well, it should be impossible, this is the interwebz though where rational and critical thinking is a rarity.
I suppose you're right, Longshanks. It'd be best for people to reserve judgment until all the facts are out. However, it's quite unlikely that any of us will ever know the full story, with all the nuances that went with it...
Wow, my dad just told me a story about a guy who had a chicken as a pet and taught the chicken tricks. There was another guy who was arguing with the guy who had the chicken. The other guy said, "How can chickens be smart if their brain is the size of a pea." Mind you, they are arguing with heavy Russian accents.
Scenario 1 - The father saves his children first, his fighting chickens die and he no longer has a job, loses his home and all his belongings and can no longer provide support for his children.
Scenario 2 - The father saves his fighting chickens, 2 of his children die but he still has a job and can still buy food for his other children
13 children starving vs 11 children having food to eat. Sometimes sacrifices need to be made, when you can go days without eating, saving the only source of income you have outweighs putting priority on saving your children, even more so when you have 13 children
Not to justify what he did, there is no reason why he should not have saved the chickens before his childrens, but as father of 13 kids maybe he thought, if my chickens die who and how is gonna feed my kids? It´s a tough spot to be in, don´t judge with no fundaments!.
“Bitbit bitbit niya ‘yung mga manok tapos sinasabi nila sa kanya, ‘’Yung anak mo nandoon,’ pero wala lang siyang pakialam,” said one of Orlando’s children.
On December 31 2011 21:30 RogerX wrote: It took an hour to take out the fire ? o.O
Must've been huge. I feel sorry for the children :/
Actually the fire razed 25 houses it says. The firefighters taking it down in only 1 hour seems a bit incredible.
I feel bad for the 'chickened out' pun getting banned. It is the best in this thread by far.
The father most likely thought his kids are safe when he first went for the roosters first. And then the fire was getting too big to go for the kids. My dad used to punish me for whenever my little brother did something wrong, as if I was supposed to be his guardian or something, although the age difference is only 2 years.
You would be surprised how small the houses here. Imagine Favelas but in planes and not in mountains.
I looked at this post scratching my head, but then I realized you meant plains.
Also lol@ everyone up in arms about the banned guy with the pun. It was funny, but a little bit in bad taste. It's only two days, he'll live.
On December 31 2011 21:30 RogerX wrote: It took an hour to take out the fire ? o.O
Must've been huge. I feel sorry for the children :/
Actually the fire razed 25 houses it says. The firefighters taking it down in only 1 hour seems a bit incredible.
I feel bad for the 'chickened out' pun getting banned. It is the best in this thread by far.
The father most likely thought his kids are safe when he first went for the roosters first. And then the fire was getting too big to go for the kids. My dad used to punish me for whenever my little brother did something wrong, as if I was supposed to be his guardian or something, although the age difference is only 2 years.
You would be surprised how small the houses here. Imagine Favelas but in planes and not in mountains.
I looked at this post scratching my head, but then I realized you meant plains.
Also lol@ everyone up in arms about the banned guy with the pun. It was funny, but a little bit in bad taste. It's only two days, he'll live.
After reading through the whole thing multiple times, I'm not sure why everyone is so convinced that he purposefully let his children die. His wife said he did, but he said that he didn't, and that other people (children, so probably not a very good idea anyways) were in charge of the two children who died. Perhaps I am simply too optimistic, but I think its a little to early to jump to conclusions. Still, if he did allow his children to day by saving some roosters, there is not a severe enough punishment in the world.
On January 01 2012 01:54 Mordanis wrote: After reading through the whole thing multiple times, I'm not sure why everyone is so convinced that he purposefully let his children die. His wife said he did, but he said that he didn't, and that other people (children, so probably not a very good idea anyways) were in charge of the two children who died. Perhaps I am simply too optimistic, but I think its a little to early to jump to conclusions. Still, if he did allow his children to day by saving some roosters, there is not a severe enough punishment in the world.
Yeah. I mean, he was certainly not heartless. He saved his chicken for cock's sake. If he knew he had a chance of saving those children, he would have. Anyways, a friend of mine heard through the radio earlier that the father is now jailed for negligence.
On December 31 2011 15:06 Elbee wrote: That's pretty depressing to think he'd save chickens over his own kids
It's easy to judge him while we're sitting behind computers lol. If his economic situation is bad and those chickens were earning the food on his table then it's quite understandable he saved the chickens actually.
I know. its sad and pretty unpleasant, but the reality is that 200+ years ago, children were replaceable, business wasn't. If you were a venetian glass blower and told family trade secrets to your friends, you family actually killed you with their own hands. This is basically death by hands off. And Suppose its in your first world country, but you lose all forms of insurance. Then suppose you basically have something in your house that grants you money. Are you going to neglect trying to save your livelihood? Let's say you sac it for trying to get your children out first. Now you and ALL your children stave and die.
First world country problems: He hacked my Xbox! World problems before first world existed: We live day by day and any person or disaster could deprive us of life and survivability.
On January 01 2012 01:54 Mordanis wrote: After reading through the whole thing multiple times, I'm not sure why everyone is so convinced that he purposefully let his children die. His wife said he did, but he said that he didn't, and that other people (children, so probably not a very good idea anyways) were in charge of the two children who died. Perhaps I am simply too optimistic, but I think its a little to early to jump to conclusions. Still, if he did allow his children to day by saving some roosters, there is not a severe enough punishment in the world.
this too. its called News SPINNING. People always want thing to be more tragic and sound worse than they are. Drama makes up most of the "entertainment" market. People gossip for fun. Its what people do. Now, if its your children and tjhey die, of course you're going to be emotionally upset and lambast the person you believe is responsible for their deaths. ANYONE does that. People near the scene of crimes are least to be believed. We've got study after study of how perception and blind spots and memory all contribute to invalid recounting of events, particularly in a high stress situation.
So, lets not throw rocks but consider that something really sad happened.
Probably a very autistic person. Shouldn't blame him for that. Also maybe he couldn't even reach the children or something. Don't judge so fast people.
On December 31 2011 21:15 toopham wrote: Sometimes Teamliquid forum reminds me of North Korea.
Pretty harsh comparison, but I agree that moderation on TL is getting too strict. You can barely say ur opinion nowadays if it's another opinion then most people have.
Yep. more or less. If you have an opinion that a mod doesnt like, you get banned. If you have an opinion that makes someone else cry because they don't like it, you get banned. I'm not talking about insults, I'm talking about people who might have an unorthodox different opinion about a subject, but cant share it openly. how about a line like this from a mod "You and your opinions are not welcome here". Free speech only goes so far as the personal inclinations of those in power. Thats why people have to fight to protect their speech from oppressive govts in real life.
I'm not surprised at all. It's the same thing when people see that 10 people, including children, died in a car crash and barely feel anything but then hear about a dog that got caught in a street cleaner and died instantly and feel absolutely terrible for that dog. For some reason animals invoke more sympathy. Now, obviously this wasn't the case here (he probably wanted to win some more cock fights) but I'm just saying that this isn't very common.
Maybe it's something I don't understand though as I don't actually have kids.
On January 01 2012 02:38 Count9 wrote: I'm not surprised at all. It's the same thing when people see that 10 people, including children, died in a car crash and barely feel anything but then hear about a dog that got caught in a street cleaner and died instantly and feel absolutely terrible for that dog. For some reason animals invoke more sympathy. Now, obviously this wasn't the case here (he probably wanted to win some more cock fights) but I'm just saying that this isn't very common.
Maybe it's something I don't understand though as I don't actually have kids.
maybe its because animals are seen as more innocent creatures and humans are seen as inherently guilty and/or sinful/flawed.
Christian upbringing will tell you man is born with sin in him. Its a collective unconscious thing.
Or maybe its related to a safety distance. Its safe to feel terrible about a dog because it isn't as close to you psychologically as another human being. when actual humans die, a numbing effect occurs because it's threatening to the psychological feeling of safety and longevity of you as a person when one of your own kind bites it. In other words, a defense mechanism. Same with puns/jokes about terrible events. people think 9/11 jokesters are awful people, and they're dealing with the change in their reality that they are vulnerable and easily killed people in their own way.
On January 01 2012 03:05 TheLOLas wrote: Jesus Christ. What the hell is the matter with the world. Two children die, just to save chickens. RIP.
Honestly, the thing that is the matter with this world is how many children he had in the first place. 13..? What the hell man. Children dying in a fire is obviously horrible, but in the grand scheme of things, population growth needs to be cut down. Sorry if I sound terrible, but chickens will never cause a global imbalance.
On January 01 2012 03:05 TheLOLas wrote: Jesus Christ. What the hell is the matter with the world. Two children die, just to save chickens. RIP.
Honestly, the thing that is the matter with this world is how many children he had in the first place. 13..? What the hell man. Children dying in a fire is obviously horrible, but in the grand scheme of things, population growth needs to be cut down. Sorry if I sound terrible, but chickens will never cause a global imbalance.
agree'd, I give props to china for allowing only 1 kid wish every other country would do the same (1-2 max)
On December 31 2011 14:51 logikly wrote: Thought this was just sad, This happened pretty close to my house in the Philippines. I guess I just don't understand how someone would save an animal before their own children. Did a search didnt see it on TL boards.
Its actually really simple. The Philippines is an extremely poor country and the roasters were worth more than the children. Had he not rescued them, his family may have all been alive, but for how long without the roasters as a source of income?
You shouldn't be so quick to judge others without understanding their situation. Not to mention he had 13 kids, odds are he didn't even care about them all that much.
Their culture is different and something you probably won't ever be able to understand fully. Not that I think it's right.
On December 31 2011 14:51 logikly wrote: Thought this was just sad, This happened pretty close to my house in the Philippines. I guess I just don't understand how someone would save an animal before their own children. Did a search didnt see it on TL boards.
Its actually really simple. The Philippines is an extremely poor country and the roasters were worth more than the children. Had he not rescued them, his family may have all been alive, but for how long without the roasters as a source of income?
You shouldn't be so quick to judge others without understanding their situation. Not to mention he had 13 kids, odds are he didn't even care about them all that much.
Their culture is different and something you probably won't ever be able to understand fully. Not that I think it's right.
i like how you tell him not to judge then immediately pass judgement on how much he cared about his kids.
Truth is, it's all journalism and who knows whether that guy really intended to do this. Horrible thing that happened, hope it wasn't intended, but even if it was, in ways people should be able to understand.
my Written Tagalog is not good enough to translate, If they were to speak it i could translate it in English for this i do apologize. Tagalog is my second language and although i have been speaking it int he Philippines my ability to translate into the written word is not so great yet. I will have my wife translate it for me since this is her first and primary language.
On December 31 2011 14:51 logikly wrote: Thought this was just sad, This happened pretty close to my house in the Philippines. I guess I just don't understand how someone would save an animal before their own children. Did a search didnt see it on TL boards.
Its actually really simple. The Philippines is an extremely poor country and the roasters were worth more than the children. Had he not rescued them, his family may have all been alive, but for how long without the roasters as a source of income?
You shouldn't be so quick to judge others without understanding their situation. Not to mention he had 13 kids, odds are he didn't even care about them all that much.
Their culture is different and something you probably won't ever be able to understand fully. Not that I think it's right.
i like how you tell him not to judge then immediately pass judgement on how much he cared about his kids.
Could have been the hardest thing he ever did
I said not to judge the culture, not that they couldn't judge his actions. It's fine to judge someone but only if you can actually understand their circumstances.
It's also fair to say that a person that says this:
"They were the ones who were taking care of them up there, why am I the one you're accusing?"
About saving his own children, probably didn't care too much about them. His entire defense was "It wasn't my responsibility to save them". Someone who cared about his children, wouldn't pass the blame of their death to the surviving children, now would they?
On December 31 2011 15:01 freeloader625 wrote: I don't understand why TL general forums are always tragic ass news about people getting hurt or dying horrific deaths. WTF is wrong with you people? Can't you post happier stuff?
I agree with this. I don't see why people post these sorts of things.
On December 31 2011 21:30 Sablar wrote: Hard to make out from this article what happened. Pretty horrible but regarding responsibility there are some holes, like what was the mother doing while watching him go for the roosters, was she trying to save the children herself or something else?
So sad thing but strange to assume that a newpaper is right about the whole rooster thing and what happened.
Yes, I agree that there appears to be more to this than the media tell, but unfortunately the truth doesn't sell quite as good as the a spiced up story.
Yeah, maybe the stairs were on fire and it wasn't reasonable for him to try to go up stairs to save his children. So easy for people to pass judgement without really knowing what happened.
Crowley once remarked concerning Bennett’s powers: Bennett had constructed a magical wand out of glass, which he carried with him. As it so happened, Crowley and Bennett were walking along one day and came across a group of theosophists who were ridiculing the use of wands. “Allan promptly produced his and blasted one of them. It took fourteen hours to restore the incredulous individual to the use of his mind and his muscles."
On January 01 2012 03:05 TheLOLas wrote: Jesus Christ. What the hell is the matter with the world. Two children die, just to save chickens. RIP.
Honestly, the thing that is the matter with this world is how many children he had in the first place. 13..? What the hell man. Children dying in a fire is obviously horrible, but in the grand scheme of things, population growth needs to be cut down. Sorry if I sound terrible, but chickens will never cause a global imbalance.
agree'd, I give props to china for allowing only 1 kid wish every other country would do the same (1-2 max)
South Korea has doing that for past 2 generations by choice (I don't know if I know anyone in my generation with more than 3 kids), now South Korea is in a crisis where the young can no longer support the elderly (thus the Nestea producing joke during GSL), population growth is a problem but undergrowth is a bigger issue.
Well regarding this issue, it's a fickle. I am pretty sure the man didn't save the chicken because he loved the chicken more. He probably saved the chicken because that was his only income and he needed to feed his family. Morally, I still think it is wrong, only because it would not be impossible to find another source of income.
It is very possible that due to the amount of kids he has, he honestly thought the older kids would have taken care of the younger ones. That's how it generally works in large households. It is also very possible that he needed those roosters to make an income. Sensationalist news i think
Wow I really don't know what to make of this. I'm sure the guy thought that his kids would somehow make it out alive and that the chickens were the only ones in danger. Also if he couldn't make it up to where his kids were without being extremely likely to die I can understand saving the chickens instead of just getting himself out and not saving anything.
if you ask me, this guy didnt logically weigh the different sides. Chicken was probably the first thing that came to his mind and he just went for it. I mean... this guy has 13 kids for fucks sake. I somehow doubt he has enough intelligence to shrewdly calculate that cock fighting will save more children in the long run. In fact, does the article mention if the cock fighting is his primary source of income? I find it hard to believe that its common for random people with a chicken to live off of cock fighting. Its more like a hobby.
Sad death for those children. May they rest in peace. But what is he doing with 13 children? :/. I don't want to be taken as some eugenicist, but I'm not going to lie, that's way too many. Not only that, but when you're poor, you're not going to be able to support many kids. However, when you're poor and do have a lot of kids to support, you're really, really screwing over yourself and most especially your kids. :S
I was hoping this would be a troll... I stopped reading after page 2 because of all the troll posts, Does anyone know how old the kids that were supposed to look after the deceased were?
On January 01 2012 12:58 gameguard wrote: if you ask me, this guy didnt logically weigh the different sides. Chicken was probably the first thing that came to his mind and he just went for it. I mean... this guy has 13 kids for fucks sake. I somehow doubt he has enough intelligence to shrewdly calculate that cock fighting will save more children in the long run. In fact, does the article mention if the cock fighting is his primary source of income? I find it hard to believe that its common for random people with a chicken to live off of cock fighting. Its more like a hobby.
Cockfighting is really big in the Philippines and its entirely possible for people to make a living off of it.
On January 01 2012 15:23 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Sad death for those children. May they rest in peace. But what is he doing with 13 children? :/. I don't want to be taken as some eugenicist, but I'm not going to lie, that's way too many. Not only that, but when you're poor, you're not going to be able to support many kids. However, when you're poor and do have a lot of kids to support, you're really, really screwing over yourself and most especially your kids. :S
I get the impression that in these parts of the world, kids will actually help support the family rather than being total money suckers. In other words, more kids = more slave labor + retirement fund
“Bitbit bitbit niya ‘yung mga manok tapos sinasabi nila sa kanya, ‘’Yung anak mo nandoon,’ pero wala lang siyang pakialam,” said one of Orlando’s children. He escaped with the chickens, then they said to him: 'Your children are in there!' but he didn't help. said one of Orlando’s children.
"Sila ang nagaalaga diyan sa taas bakit ako ang aakusahan nila?” he said. They are the ones worrying about being outside, why are they accusing me? he said.
Maybe he was rational about it. Sacrifice 2 children and still have 11, but save the only source of income to be able to get food for his family? I don't know ..was this some poor ass dude with nothing but a huge family or did he have an actual job etc?
EPT
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