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Skyrim is a game I really can't stand playing at all -- had I bought it first, I'd have spent 30 pounds for something I'd never play. I deleted it after an hour.
I bought Minecraft and Portal 2 just recently after having pirated both games first.
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On December 02 2011 16:12 kurosawa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 15:40 Lightwip wrote:
I pirate things, albeit infrequently. I live in the United States, so I can't say I can't afford games; I have plenty of money. The reason I do it is because I want free stuff. Who doesn't?
But here's the question: why not do it? I don't have any moral obligation to support massive gaming corporations that will be fine without my money. I'd rather be $60 richer.
If there's a good reason to buy a product rather than pirate it, I will. That's why I don't pirate DS games etc. But if I can get a comparable or better experience for free, why would I bother paying?
This is a situation very similar to evolution. If organism A is a parasite to organism B, both will evolve in a way that will harm the other. If they had a mutualist relationship, they would work to gain more benefit out of supporting the other. Corporations making DRM's is like a parasitic relationship between them and consumers/pirates.
Instead of making things worse for everyone, the gaming/movie/music companies need to make the bought product worth buying instead of pirating. Then the problem will become negligible as far as money lost goes.
As for indie games, I sure as hell wouldn't want a DRM-ridden infestation of a game. The fame gained from more people playing it is probably worth more. In much the same way I have no moral obligation to not smash in your front door, share your family, use your computer and shit in your toilet. Why do I care if I can get it for free? I don't want to spend money on a computer, a house or a toilet. It's funny because it's YOU that's the parasite in this equation. I don't really want to hear about how you feel these guys may or may not rip you off for what they deliver. If you take offence to the cost of these games then DONT BUY IT. You are not entitled to things that are not yours...or are you somewhat special? With your suspect moral compass I highly doubt it.
piracy is a balancing force against inequities in capitalist economies. these large companies think they're getting somewhere by going after people who steal their shit when the fact is that it's downright impossible to stop them. so instead of fighting people and wasting money on frivolous efforts to stop piracy, they should more reasonably price their products and make it less worth someone's time to search for pirated copies.
honestly steam is one of the best examples of a strategy that's succeeded. with their regular deals that steeply discount games and the ease of obtaining it then and there, it makes people willing to pay 20 or 30 bucks to get a solid copy. as long as they keep DRM garbage off it and don't abuse people's information, people will pay. it's all a matter of convenience.
same goes for music. charging $1.29 for a song on itunes and telling me in the TOS that i don't actually own it is bullshit... especially since i'm paying for something that's only in 256kbps and limited on what i can play it on.
alternatively, i can take all of 30 seconds to find a free copy of the song at 320kbps and it's fucking mine. people will bitch that it hurts artists, but honestly there are other ways of making money than the status quo. pretty lights is a perfect example of an artist that offers a ton of his music for free on his website and relies on donations and concerts for money. people like that get my respect, and i have absolutely no problem paying/donating money to him. he deserves the cash. not itunes. itunes just hosts their shit and siphons money off artist profits like a parasite.
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On December 02 2011 09:45 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 09:40 H0i wrote:On December 02 2011 09:15 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 09:06 H0i wrote:On December 02 2011 08:54 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 08:43 uiCk wrote:On December 02 2011 08:36 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 08:27 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
I pirated witcher 2 and deus ex human revolution, and after playing some of those games I am hugely thankful that I didn't buy either of them, because if I had I would have raged my head off at how much they irritated me in terms of performance, controls, or mechanics.
Pirating is like free insurance for the gamer... if
A) game runs on the machine - respectably
B) game is also fun / not-irritating
then
C) buy the game...
Piracy protects the gaming consumer from bad game designers and distributors by protecting their money and allowing them to invest into the games and companies of worth! The gaming market has been crutching company names and flashy advertising to sell games, even when the quality has been slowly dropping. Piracy is an "abusable" tool that gamers should use to help them decide which game designers they want to encourage...
If you want more good games, you buy the games from good companies. Consider it natural selection to an extent.
And like i mentioned above, Piracy is an abusable tool, it SHOULD be used to inform gamers of quality... although, many people ABUSE it in order to keep unlicensed copies of software.
Nuff said. Piracy isn't a tool for anything, it's illegal and people need to stop trying to justify stealing. to copy is not stealing. It's not illegal everywhere, and who cares about legality? alcohol used to be illegal. now its legal. Is it bad or is it good? who cares. It's stealing IP. You're taking something that belongs to someone else without permission of the owner, and without paying for it. That's stealing by definition. You could hardly call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's property. But no, it is not stealing, because the original material does not disappear. The original material and the copies of it are copied. That's why it's called piracy, but you are still taking someone's property. And do you not understand the concept of intellectual property? I can and will call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's intellectual property, it's the entire concept of programming. I am not taking property. The property does not disappear and is not damaged in any way. I do not understand the concept of intellectual property. I understand what you mean with it, but I do not believe in it. What good does it do? How can intellectuality be property? I simply do not believe someone can own such a thing, but then, I do not believe in our "society" of today, I do not believe in it's workings and this idea of property is one of them. I believe in an enlightened society, and not in this one. That's all I wanted to say, I'm not going to continue the discussion because there is nothing left to say. That would make perfect sense if games didn't cost money to produce. You can't expect quality games to come from some dude who just makes games in his free time. Or even a few friends getting together to work on a game. A modern game cost A LOT to make. And companies need to be reimbursed for their efforts. It doesn't matter what you believe. What you believe doesn't fit practically into our economic system. Call our economic system stupid if you wish but that doesn't change the fact that you're damaging people who are just trying to make a living doing what they love.
On December 02 2011 09:51 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 09:40 H0i wrote:On December 02 2011 09:15 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 09:06 H0i wrote:On December 02 2011 08:54 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 08:43 uiCk wrote:On December 02 2011 08:36 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 08:27 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
I pirated witcher 2 and deus ex human revolution, and after playing some of those games I am hugely thankful that I didn't buy either of them, because if I had I would have raged my head off at how much they irritated me in terms of performance, controls, or mechanics.
Pirating is like free insurance for the gamer... if
A) game runs on the machine - respectably
B) game is also fun / not-irritating
then
C) buy the game...
Piracy protects the gaming consumer from bad game designers and distributors by protecting their money and allowing them to invest into the games and companies of worth! The gaming market has been crutching company names and flashy advertising to sell games, even when the quality has been slowly dropping. Piracy is an "abusable" tool that gamers should use to help them decide which game designers they want to encourage...
If you want more good games, you buy the games from good companies. Consider it natural selection to an extent.
And like i mentioned above, Piracy is an abusable tool, it SHOULD be used to inform gamers of quality... although, many people ABUSE it in order to keep unlicensed copies of software.
Nuff said. Piracy isn't a tool for anything, it's illegal and people need to stop trying to justify stealing. to copy is not stealing. It's not illegal everywhere, and who cares about legality? alcohol used to be illegal. now its legal. Is it bad or is it good? who cares. It's stealing IP. You're taking something that belongs to someone else without permission of the owner, and without paying for it. That's stealing by definition. You could hardly call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's property. But no, it is not stealing, because the original material does not disappear. The original material and the copies of it are copied. That's why it's called piracy, but you are still taking someone's property. And do you not understand the concept of intellectual property? I can and will call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's intellectual property, it's the entire concept of programming. I am not taking property. The property does not disappear and is not damaged in any way. I do not understand the concept of intellectual property. I understand what you mean with it, but I do not believe in it. What good does it do? How can intellectuality be property? I simply do not believe someone can own such a thing, but then, I do not believe in our "society" of today, I do not believe in it's workings and this idea of property is one of them. I believe in an enlightened society, and not in this one. That's all I wanted to say, I'm not going to continue the discussion because there is nothing left to say. Someone's hard work, money and effort has gone in to inventing that intellectual property. The reason they do this is to sell the use of that intellectual property for the purposes of entertainment. Think of Intellectual Property as if it is a service. You can pay someone to wash your car or mow your lawn. Technically they aren't giving you any physical "thing". Does this mean you also consider that not paying someone who provided you with a service to not be stealing? Do you consider it morally correct to not pay someone who provided you with their hard work and effort? With Intellectual Property (in this case video games) you're paying someone for the time, effort and money they have invested into creating it in return for the benefits (entertainment) of using that product.
On December 02 2011 12:30 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 08:41 H0i wrote:
The internet allows us to share ideas, and piracy is just a name for the effect of this sharing of ideas on our outdated societal systems, monetary, economical, political, etc.
Unfortunately we still live with outdated systems that cannot keep up with other developments, so for now what we have to do is simple. Support those developers who deserve it. Babby's first political post. If you want to make a statement, don't play the games at all. The fact that you're going to play a game means that the developers know it's being played, even if you don't pay for it. As the OP shows, there is way to track those things. If you're really worried about making a statement about what games you like and don't like, buy the games you like and don't pirate or buy the games you don't like. Again, as I posted above, if a game is worth you playing it, it's worth supporting. Don't pirate it, play it all the way through, and call it shit. That type of action is the cancer that's killing gaming.
This is exactly why I said I wouldn't continue the discussion. I knew already what the responses were going to be, my perspective on this requires a lot of creative thinking in order to understand, and I hope some people were able to do this.
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United States5162 Posts
On December 03 2011 00:01 H0i wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 09:45 MattBarry wrote:On December 02 2011 09:40 H0i wrote:On December 02 2011 09:15 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 09:06 H0i wrote:On December 02 2011 08:54 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 08:43 uiCk wrote:On December 02 2011 08:36 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 08:27 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
I pirated witcher 2 and deus ex human revolution, and after playing some of those games I am hugely thankful that I didn't buy either of them, because if I had I would have raged my head off at how much they irritated me in terms of performance, controls, or mechanics.
Pirating is like free insurance for the gamer... if
A) game runs on the machine - respectably
B) game is also fun / not-irritating
then
C) buy the game...
Piracy protects the gaming consumer from bad game designers and distributors by protecting their money and allowing them to invest into the games and companies of worth! The gaming market has been crutching company names and flashy advertising to sell games, even when the quality has been slowly dropping. Piracy is an "abusable" tool that gamers should use to help them decide which game designers they want to encourage...
If you want more good games, you buy the games from good companies. Consider it natural selection to an extent.
And like i mentioned above, Piracy is an abusable tool, it SHOULD be used to inform gamers of quality... although, many people ABUSE it in order to keep unlicensed copies of software.
Nuff said. Piracy isn't a tool for anything, it's illegal and people need to stop trying to justify stealing. to copy is not stealing. It's not illegal everywhere, and who cares about legality? alcohol used to be illegal. now its legal. Is it bad or is it good? who cares. It's stealing IP. You're taking something that belongs to someone else without permission of the owner, and without paying for it. That's stealing by definition. You could hardly call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's property. But no, it is not stealing, because the original material does not disappear. The original material and the copies of it are copied. That's why it's called piracy, but you are still taking someone's property. And do you not understand the concept of intellectual property? I can and will call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's intellectual property, it's the entire concept of programming. I am not taking property. The property does not disappear and is not damaged in any way. I do not understand the concept of intellectual property. I understand what you mean with it, but I do not believe in it. What good does it do? How can intellectuality be property? I simply do not believe someone can own such a thing, but then, I do not believe in our "society" of today, I do not believe in it's workings and this idea of property is one of them. I believe in an enlightened society, and not in this one. That's all I wanted to say, I'm not going to continue the discussion because there is nothing left to say. That would make perfect sense if games didn't cost money to produce. You can't expect quality games to come from some dude who just makes games in his free time. Or even a few friends getting together to work on a game. A modern game cost A LOT to make. And companies need to be reimbursed for their efforts. It doesn't matter what you believe. What you believe doesn't fit practically into our economic system. Call our economic system stupid if you wish but that doesn't change the fact that you're damaging people who are just trying to make a living doing what they love. Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 09:51 Tektos wrote:On December 02 2011 09:40 H0i wrote:On December 02 2011 09:15 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 09:06 H0i wrote:On December 02 2011 08:54 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 08:43 uiCk wrote:On December 02 2011 08:36 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 08:27 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
I pirated witcher 2 and deus ex human revolution, and after playing some of those games I am hugely thankful that I didn't buy either of them, because if I had I would have raged my head off at how much they irritated me in terms of performance, controls, or mechanics.
Pirating is like free insurance for the gamer... if
A) game runs on the machine - respectably
B) game is also fun / not-irritating
then
C) buy the game...
Piracy protects the gaming consumer from bad game designers and distributors by protecting their money and allowing them to invest into the games and companies of worth! The gaming market has been crutching company names and flashy advertising to sell games, even when the quality has been slowly dropping. Piracy is an "abusable" tool that gamers should use to help them decide which game designers they want to encourage...
If you want more good games, you buy the games from good companies. Consider it natural selection to an extent.
And like i mentioned above, Piracy is an abusable tool, it SHOULD be used to inform gamers of quality... although, many people ABUSE it in order to keep unlicensed copies of software.
Nuff said. Piracy isn't a tool for anything, it's illegal and people need to stop trying to justify stealing. to copy is not stealing. It's not illegal everywhere, and who cares about legality? alcohol used to be illegal. now its legal. Is it bad or is it good? who cares. It's stealing IP. You're taking something that belongs to someone else without permission of the owner, and without paying for it. That's stealing by definition. You could hardly call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's property. But no, it is not stealing, because the original material does not disappear. The original material and the copies of it are copied. That's why it's called piracy, but you are still taking someone's property. And do you not understand the concept of intellectual property? I can and will call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's intellectual property, it's the entire concept of programming. I am not taking property. The property does not disappear and is not damaged in any way. I do not understand the concept of intellectual property. I understand what you mean with it, but I do not believe in it. What good does it do? How can intellectuality be property? I simply do not believe someone can own such a thing, but then, I do not believe in our "society" of today, I do not believe in it's workings and this idea of property is one of them. I believe in an enlightened society, and not in this one. That's all I wanted to say, I'm not going to continue the discussion because there is nothing left to say. Someone's hard work, money and effort has gone in to inventing that intellectual property. The reason they do this is to sell the use of that intellectual property for the purposes of entertainment. Think of Intellectual Property as if it is a service. You can pay someone to wash your car or mow your lawn. Technically they aren't giving you any physical "thing". Does this mean you also consider that not paying someone who provided you with a service to not be stealing? Do you consider it morally correct to not pay someone who provided you with their hard work and effort? With Intellectual Property (in this case video games) you're paying someone for the time, effort and money they have invested into creating it in return for the benefits (entertainment) of using that product. Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 12:30 HereAndNow wrote:On December 02 2011 08:41 H0i wrote:
The internet allows us to share ideas, and piracy is just a name for the effect of this sharing of ideas on our outdated societal systems, monetary, economical, political, etc.
Unfortunately we still live with outdated systems that cannot keep up with other developments, so for now what we have to do is simple. Support those developers who deserve it. Babby's first political post. If you want to make a statement, don't play the games at all. The fact that you're going to play a game means that the developers know it's being played, even if you don't pay for it. As the OP shows, there is way to track those things. If you're really worried about making a statement about what games you like and don't like, buy the games you like and don't pirate or buy the games you don't like. Again, as I posted above, if a game is worth you playing it, it's worth supporting. Don't pirate it, play it all the way through, and call it shit. That type of action is the cancer that's killing gaming. This is exactly why I said I wouldn't continue the discussion. I knew already what the responses were going to be, my perspective on this requires a lot of creative thinking in order to understand, and I hope some people were able to do this.
So you how do you think people should be compensated for the time and effort that's goes into creating these ideas?
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On December 02 2011 21:29 TheDraken wrote: itunes just hosts their shit and siphons money off artist profits like a parasite. It isn't much different than what record companies force bands through. Most bands are only allowed the smallest cut of a CD sale compared to where else the money is split up to. Same for band merch. The only genuine way to get money to a band without it having to trickle down the system of which they are at the bottom of, is to just go up to them at a gig and hand them a fat wad of cash.
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On December 03 2011 00:01 H0i wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 09:45 MattBarry wrote:On December 02 2011 09:40 H0i wrote:On December 02 2011 09:15 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 09:06 H0i wrote:On December 02 2011 08:54 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 08:43 uiCk wrote:On December 02 2011 08:36 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 08:27 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
I pirated witcher 2 and deus ex human revolution, and after playing some of those games I am hugely thankful that I didn't buy either of them, because if I had I would have raged my head off at how much they irritated me in terms of performance, controls, or mechanics.
Pirating is like free insurance for the gamer... if
A) game runs on the machine - respectably
B) game is also fun / not-irritating
then
C) buy the game...
Piracy protects the gaming consumer from bad game designers and distributors by protecting their money and allowing them to invest into the games and companies of worth! The gaming market has been crutching company names and flashy advertising to sell games, even when the quality has been slowly dropping. Piracy is an "abusable" tool that gamers should use to help them decide which game designers they want to encourage...
If you want more good games, you buy the games from good companies. Consider it natural selection to an extent.
And like i mentioned above, Piracy is an abusable tool, it SHOULD be used to inform gamers of quality... although, many people ABUSE it in order to keep unlicensed copies of software.
Nuff said. Piracy isn't a tool for anything, it's illegal and people need to stop trying to justify stealing. to copy is not stealing. It's not illegal everywhere, and who cares about legality? alcohol used to be illegal. now its legal. Is it bad or is it good? who cares. It's stealing IP. You're taking something that belongs to someone else without permission of the owner, and without paying for it. That's stealing by definition. You could hardly call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's property. But no, it is not stealing, because the original material does not disappear. The original material and the copies of it are copied. That's why it's called piracy, but you are still taking someone's property. And do you not understand the concept of intellectual property? I can and will call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's intellectual property, it's the entire concept of programming. I am not taking property. The property does not disappear and is not damaged in any way. I do not understand the concept of intellectual property. I understand what you mean with it, but I do not believe in it. What good does it do? How can intellectuality be property? I simply do not believe someone can own such a thing, but then, I do not believe in our "society" of today, I do not believe in it's workings and this idea of property is one of them. I believe in an enlightened society, and not in this one. That's all I wanted to say, I'm not going to continue the discussion because there is nothing left to say. That would make perfect sense if games didn't cost money to produce. You can't expect quality games to come from some dude who just makes games in his free time. Or even a few friends getting together to work on a game. A modern game cost A LOT to make. And companies need to be reimbursed for their efforts. It doesn't matter what you believe. What you believe doesn't fit practically into our economic system. Call our economic system stupid if you wish but that doesn't change the fact that you're damaging people who are just trying to make a living doing what they love. Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 09:51 Tektos wrote:On December 02 2011 09:40 H0i wrote:On December 02 2011 09:15 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 09:06 H0i wrote:On December 02 2011 08:54 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 08:43 uiCk wrote:On December 02 2011 08:36 Whitewing wrote:On December 02 2011 08:27 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
I pirated witcher 2 and deus ex human revolution, and after playing some of those games I am hugely thankful that I didn't buy either of them, because if I had I would have raged my head off at how much they irritated me in terms of performance, controls, or mechanics.
Pirating is like free insurance for the gamer... if
A) game runs on the machine - respectably
B) game is also fun / not-irritating
then
C) buy the game...
Piracy protects the gaming consumer from bad game designers and distributors by protecting their money and allowing them to invest into the games and companies of worth! The gaming market has been crutching company names and flashy advertising to sell games, even when the quality has been slowly dropping. Piracy is an "abusable" tool that gamers should use to help them decide which game designers they want to encourage...
If you want more good games, you buy the games from good companies. Consider it natural selection to an extent.
And like i mentioned above, Piracy is an abusable tool, it SHOULD be used to inform gamers of quality... although, many people ABUSE it in order to keep unlicensed copies of software.
Nuff said. Piracy isn't a tool for anything, it's illegal and people need to stop trying to justify stealing. to copy is not stealing. It's not illegal everywhere, and who cares about legality? alcohol used to be illegal. now its legal. Is it bad or is it good? who cares. It's stealing IP. You're taking something that belongs to someone else without permission of the owner, and without paying for it. That's stealing by definition. You could hardly call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's property. But no, it is not stealing, because the original material does not disappear. The original material and the copies of it are copied. That's why it's called piracy, but you are still taking someone's property. And do you not understand the concept of intellectual property? I can and will call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's intellectual property, it's the entire concept of programming. I am not taking property. The property does not disappear and is not damaged in any way. I do not understand the concept of intellectual property. I understand what you mean with it, but I do not believe in it. What good does it do? How can intellectuality be property? I simply do not believe someone can own such a thing, but then, I do not believe in our "society" of today, I do not believe in it's workings and this idea of property is one of them. I believe in an enlightened society, and not in this one. That's all I wanted to say, I'm not going to continue the discussion because there is nothing left to say. Someone's hard work, money and effort has gone in to inventing that intellectual property. The reason they do this is to sell the use of that intellectual property for the purposes of entertainment. Think of Intellectual Property as if it is a service. You can pay someone to wash your car or mow your lawn. Technically they aren't giving you any physical "thing". Does this mean you also consider that not paying someone who provided you with a service to not be stealing? Do you consider it morally correct to not pay someone who provided you with their hard work and effort? With Intellectual Property (in this case video games) you're paying someone for the time, effort and money they have invested into creating it in return for the benefits (entertainment) of using that product. Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 12:30 HereAndNow wrote:On December 02 2011 08:41 H0i wrote:
The internet allows us to share ideas, and piracy is just a name for the effect of this sharing of ideas on our outdated societal systems, monetary, economical, political, etc.
Unfortunately we still live with outdated systems that cannot keep up with other developments, so for now what we have to do is simple. Support those developers who deserve it. Babby's first political post. If you want to make a statement, don't play the games at all. The fact that you're going to play a game means that the developers know it's being played, even if you don't pay for it. As the OP shows, there is way to track those things. If you're really worried about making a statement about what games you like and don't like, buy the games you like and don't pirate or buy the games you don't like. Again, as I posted above, if a game is worth you playing it, it's worth supporting. Don't pirate it, play it all the way through, and call it shit. That type of action is the cancer that's killing gaming. This is exactly why I said I wouldn't continue the discussion. I knew already what the responses were going to be, my perspective on this requires a lot of creative thinking in order to understand, and I hope some people were able to do this.
Your perspective is garbage. Trying to be a dick and claiming it's "too deep to understand" doesn't make it right, it just makes you pretentious and makes it clear to everyone you're not worth discussing this with.
When you actually come back with relevant and good ideas, you might get someone to agree with you who's not yourself.
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I think Trial Periods add an unique alternative to pirating games while still providing the opportunity for potential players to try out a game, try out their computer specs, and simply see how they like it.
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Anyone who pirates and has enough money to buy the games should be ashamed of themselves. Anyone who can't afford games but pirates them shouldn't.
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On December 03 2011 00:59 sc4k wrote:
Anyone who pirates and has enough money to buy the games should be ashamed of themselves. Anyone who can't afford games but pirates them shouldn't.
Not really worthy replying to but heck.
Pirating isn't a bad thing, it builds fanbase.
I would not have been gaming so much if I hadn't pirated when I was unable to buy games for full retail.
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On December 03 2011 00:59 sc4k wrote:
Anyone who pirates and has enough money to buy the games should be ashamed of themselves. Anyone who can't afford games but pirates them shouldn't.
Why do people keep assuming everyone has the right to every game?
If you can't afford a game, you shouldn't get it. If it's because you're poor, then you have better things to do with your time than play games. If it's because you foolishly spend your money, you shouldn't get a game anyway.
Not having money for superfluous, non-essential items isn't a justification for theft.
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On December 03 2011 01:13 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 00:59 sc4k wrote:
Anyone who pirates and has enough money to buy the games should be ashamed of themselves. Anyone who can't afford games but pirates them shouldn't. Why do people keep assuming everyone has the right to every game? If you can't afford a game, you shouldn't get it. If it's because you're poor, then you have better things to do with your time than play games. If it's because you foolishly spend your money, you shouldn't get a game anyway. Not having money for superfluous, non-essential items isn't a justification for theft.
Thats a really cool way of looking at it.
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On December 03 2011 01:28 TBone- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 01:13 HereAndNow wrote:On December 03 2011 00:59 sc4k wrote:
Anyone who pirates and has enough money to buy the games should be ashamed of themselves. Anyone who can't afford games but pirates them shouldn't. Why do people keep assuming everyone has the right to every game? If you can't afford a game, you shouldn't get it. If it's because you're poor, then you have better things to do with your time than play games. If it's because you foolishly spend your money, you shouldn't get a game anyway. Not having money for superfluous, non-essential items isn't a justification for theft. Thats a really cool way of looking at it.
I may have been on the internet too long, because I automatically assumed you were being sarcastic and wrote a big angry paragraph.
If you are actually being sarcastic, though, ಠ_ಠ
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pirating a game doesnt negatively affect the developers since i wasnt going to pay for it anyway.
if a developer does go out of business due to piracy then no one gets to pirate their games anymore.
market forces will decide how much piracy is viable in the market place before the industry either shrinks our outright dies. since the market is still growing its fair to say it can support a few more pirates.
just saiyan
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On December 03 2011 01:13 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 00:59 sc4k wrote:
Anyone who pirates and has enough money to buy the games should be ashamed of themselves. Anyone who can't afford games but pirates them shouldn't. Why do people keep assuming everyone has the right to every game? If you can't afford a game, you shouldn't get it. If it's because you're poor, then you have better things to do with your time than play games. If it's because you foolishly spend your money, you shouldn't get a game anyway. Not having money for superfluous, non-essential items isn't a justification for theft.
Piracy is not theft. Theft implies that you take away what you steal. After you steal something, it's not there anymore. Which is clearly not the case here.
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On December 03 2011 01:42 turdburgler wrote:
pirating a game doesnt negatively affect the developers since i wasnt going to pay for it anyway.
if a developer does go out of business due to piracy then no one gets to pirate their games anymore.
market forces will decide how much piracy is viable in the market place before the industry either shrinks our outright dies. since the market is still growing its fair to say it can support a few more pirates.
just saiyan
But that bullshit and you know it. "I wasn't going to pay for this" and "I played the games" have to be mutually exclusive. If you want the service/product (in this case games), you have to pay for it. If you're not going to pay for it, then you don't get that good/service. It's that simple, that's how the economy and global market has worked for hundreds of years.
You are not entitled to something for free because you don't feel like paying in the first place.
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On December 03 2011 01:45 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 01:13 HereAndNow wrote:On December 03 2011 00:59 sc4k wrote:
Anyone who pirates and has enough money to buy the games should be ashamed of themselves. Anyone who can't afford games but pirates them shouldn't. Why do people keep assuming everyone has the right to every game? If you can't afford a game, you shouldn't get it. If it's because you're poor, then you have better things to do with your time than play games. If it's because you foolishly spend your money, you shouldn't get a game anyway. Not having money for superfluous, non-essential items isn't a justification for theft. piracy is not theft. Theft implies that you take away what you steal. Which is clearly not the case here.
Stop it with this argument. It's asinine, trying to use semantics to justify it. Here, I can do that too, and better:
Hey dictionary, what's the definition of theft?
theft
noun
1.the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.
2.an instance of this.
3.Archaic . something stolen.
Well, what's stealing then?
steal
verb (used with object)
1.to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
2.to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.
3.to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance: He stole my girlfriend.
4.to move, bring, convey, or put secretly or quietly; smuggle (usually followed by away, from, in, into, etc.): They stole the bicycle into the bedroom to surprise the child.
5.Baseball . (of a base runner) to gain (a base) without the help of a walk or batted ball, as by running to it during the delivery of a pitch.
Bolded parts. Taking without permission or right? Appropriating ideas without right or acknowledgment? That's piracy. By definition, it's stealing. And the act of stealing is theft. Please, refute that.
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Where did you steal your quote from HereAndNow?
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On December 03 2011 01:45 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 01:42 turdburgler wrote:
pirating a game doesnt negatively affect the developers since i wasnt going to pay for it anyway.
if a developer does go out of business due to piracy then no one gets to pirate their games anymore.
market forces will decide how much piracy is viable in the market place before the industry either shrinks our outright dies. since the market is still growing its fair to say it can support a few more pirates.
just saiyan But that bullshit and you know it. "I wasn't going to pay for this" and "I played the games" have to be mutually exclusive. If you want the service/product (in this case games), you have to pay for it. If you're not going to pay for it, then you don't get that good/service. It's that simple, that's how the economy and global market has worked for hundreds of years. You are not entitled to something for free because you don't feel like paying in the first place.
its not bullshit at all. if not enough people pay for it, games will stop being made, obviously reducing piracy to 0. either the business model will change or games will just stop (assuming piracy ever reaches anywhere near high %ages).
so now you have to argue is putting something out of business inherently immoral or is it just illegal, and if its illegal does that mean its immoral? theres already been 100 examples of things being legal but immoral and things being illegal but moral. so that question is answered.
then you have to say whether an action (which for the sake of argument) "will" put someone out of business being immoral? and i think the answer is clearly no. competition in every business area puts people out of business ever day, either mergers, take overs or competition cause job losses every day as 1 shop can serve 200 people with less staff than 2 shops serving 200 people. my action isnt any different to this.
so then you come back with "but its theft" but this isnt sony has 2 apples and im taking 1, so sony has 1 apple. this is the magic of the internet where sony has 2 apples, i take 1 apple and sony still has 2 apples. all im doing is saying im not part of the market willing to pay £50 for a game.
if you draw a venn diagram showing all the different people willing to pay different amounts for games, you would see the games industry would crash if they charged £120 for a game, or £100. the circle gets bigger as the price goes down. im putting my pin down and saying im not willing to pay £40 for a game, if the price was lower i might. so now because i can take the apples without sony losing any apples at all, whats immoral about me taking this game and playing it?
On December 03 2011 01:49 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 01:45 Nizaris wrote:On December 03 2011 01:13 HereAndNow wrote:On December 03 2011 00:59 sc4k wrote:
Anyone who pirates and has enough money to buy the games should be ashamed of themselves. Anyone who can't afford games but pirates them shouldn't. Why do people keep assuming everyone has the right to every game? If you can't afford a game, you shouldn't get it. If it's because you're poor, then you have better things to do with your time than play games. If it's because you foolishly spend your money, you shouldn't get a game anyway. Not having money for superfluous, non-essential items isn't a justification for theft. piracy is not theft. Theft implies that you take away what you steal. Which is clearly not the case here. Stop it with this argument. It's asinine, trying to use semantics to justify it. Here, I can do that too, and better: Hey dictionary, what's the definition of theft? Show nested quote +theft
noun
1.the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.
2.an instance of this.
3.Archaic . something stolen. Well, what's stealing then? Show nested quote +steal
verb (used with object)
1.to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
2.to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.
3.to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance: He stole my girlfriend.
4.to move, bring, convey, or put secretly or quietly; smuggle (usually followed by away, from, in, into, etc.): They stole the bicycle into the bedroom to surprise the child.
5.Baseball . (of a base runner) to gain (a base) without the help of a walk or batted ball, as by running to it during the delivery of a pitch. Bolded parts. Taking without permission or right? Appropriating ideas without right or acknowledgment? That's piracy. By definition, it's stealing. And the act of stealing is theft. Please, refute that.
i dont know what dictionary you use but thats not the legal definition of stealing, its 3 synonyms. the point of piracy is that its not taking anything, for me to take something it has to be possible for them to lose it, and they dont. whether i pirate this game or film or not, if im not willing to pay their prices im not part of their market as outlined by my post above, they arent losing what they were never going to get.
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On December 03 2011 02:02 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 01:45 HereAndNow wrote:On December 03 2011 01:42 turdburgler wrote:
pirating a game doesnt negatively affect the developers since i wasnt going to pay for it anyway.
if a developer does go out of business due to piracy then no one gets to pirate their games anymore.
market forces will decide how much piracy is viable in the market place before the industry either shrinks our outright dies. since the market is still growing its fair to say it can support a few more pirates.
just saiyan But that bullshit and you know it. "I wasn't going to pay for this" and "I played the games" have to be mutually exclusive. If you want the service/product (in this case games), you have to pay for it. If you're not going to pay for it, then you don't get that good/service. It's that simple, that's how the economy and global market has worked for hundreds of years. You are not entitled to something for free because you don't feel like paying in the first place. its not bullshit at all. if not enough people pay for it, games will stop being made, obviously reducing piracy to 0. either the business model will change or games will just stop (assuming piracy ever reaches anywhere near high %ages). so now you have to argue is putting something out of business inherently immoral or is it just illegal, and if its illegal does that mean its immoral? theres already been 100 examples of things being legal but immoral and things being illegal but moral. so that question is answered. then you have to say whether an action (which for the sake of argument) "will" put someone out of business being immoral? and i think the answer is clearly no. competition in every business area puts people out of business ever day, either mergers, take overs or competition cause job losses every day as 1 shop can serve 200 people with less staff than 2 shops serving 200 people. my action isnt any different to this. so then you come back with "but its theft" but this isnt sony has 2 apples and im taking 1, so sony has 1 apple. this is the magic of the internet where sony has 2 apples, i take 1 apple and sony still has 2 apples. all im doing is saying im not part of the market willing to pay £50 for a game. if you draw a venn diagram showing all the different people willing to pay different amounts for games, you would see the games industry would crash if they charged £120 for a game, or £100. the circle gets bigger as the price goes down. im putting my pin down and saying im not willing to pay £40 for a game, if the price was lower i might. so now because i can take the apples without sony losing any apples at all, whats immoral about me taking this game and playing it?
Putting someone out of business is both immoral and illegal. There are laws against theft, both physical and intellectual property. Piracy is the latter.
It's also immoral because if you actually put someone out of business, you are putting dozens, maybe hundreds of employees out of work because a few thousand people were too cheap to buy a game. It's selfish, childish and immoral. It's a "mine mine mine gimme gimme" philosophy.
It is theft, just a new kind. You try to justify it saying there's no allegorical examples, but here's one:
I like to watch football. To watch football, I need to either:
A) Watch it with cable
or
B) Go to a live game
I don't feel like paying for either cable or a ticket. So here's what I'll do. I'll go to the stadium, sneak in without getting caught, and sit on the stairs. I'm not depriving anyone of a seat, and the stadium will be fine without my ticket price. It's not hurting anyone.
But it's still illegal and immoral. You'd still get punished if you get caught. You act like piracy is ok because there's a low chance of you getting caught and you're not directly stealing, but it's the same principle.
Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 01:49 HereAndNow wrote:On December 03 2011 01:45 Nizaris wrote:On December 03 2011 01:13 HereAndNow wrote:On December 03 2011 00:59 sc4k wrote:
Anyone who pirates and has enough money to buy the games should be ashamed of themselves. Anyone who can't afford games but pirates them shouldn't. Why do people keep assuming everyone has the right to every game? If you can't afford a game, you shouldn't get it. If it's because you're poor, then you have better things to do with your time than play games. If it's because you foolishly spend your money, you shouldn't get a game anyway. Not having money for superfluous, non-essential items isn't a justification for theft. piracy is not theft. Theft implies that you take away what you steal. Which is clearly not the case here. Stop it with this argument. It's asinine, trying to use semantics to justify it. Here, I can do that too, and better: Hey dictionary, what's the definition of theft? theft
noun
1.the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.
2.an instance of this.
3.Archaic . something stolen. Well, what's stealing then? steal
verb (used with object)
1.to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
2.to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.
3.to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance: He stole my girlfriend.
4.to move, bring, convey, or put secretly or quietly; smuggle (usually followed by away, from, in, into, etc.): They stole the bicycle into the bedroom to surprise the child.
5.Baseball . (of a base runner) to gain (a base) without the help of a walk or batted ball, as by running to it during the delivery of a pitch. Bolded parts. Taking without permission or right? Appropriating ideas without right or acknowledgment? That's piracy. By definition, it's stealing. And the act of stealing is theft. Please, refute that. i dont know what dictionary you use but thats not the legal definition of stealing, its 3 synonyms. the point of piracy is that its not taking anything, for me to take something it has to be possible for them to lose it, and they dont. whether i pirate this game or film or not, if im not willing to pay their prices im not part of their market as outlined by my post above, they arent losing what they were never going to get.
I used dictionary.com, you want me to cite others? How about Merriam-Webster, or the Oxford dictionary? I can assure you (as I'm looking at them now), they have the same definitions:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theft
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/steal
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/theft?region=us
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/steal?region=us
If you take something without legal permission or right, it's stealing. That is the literal definition of the word everywhere in the world. The act of stealing is theft. That is the literal definition of the word everywhere in the world. That is how it works, you don't get to make up your own definition to make you feel better.
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assuming taking that seat doesnt hurt anyone and it was going to be empty i dont see why its immoral. you are stating its immoral without saying why.
you also rebuffed my claim that putting people out of business isnt inherently immoral the same way. you are just stating things without any explanation
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