|
On November 25 2011 03:03 ailouros wrote:
about as far as it goes for me is that i'm glad i was born in California and not most other places. who wouldn't?
Are you glad that you were born white, not black?
China is a big country and has many provinces. It is actually very common that netizens from different provinces mocking each other, like "You people like to cheat!" "You are bunch of pocket pickers!" "You people are sissies!"
And China has a very long history, during which it had been ruled by emperors from many different races. Maybe one day we are invaded by aliens like the movie Independence Day, you are still...(ok, forget about the American movie)
|
Love your country for the things it's done. It's when you start loving your country for the simple fact that it IS your country is when it starts being reminiscent of racism.
|
I can't love my country since it directly means I'm a Nazi for people from every other country. Marx, von Goethe, Bach, Gutenberg, Einstein, Nietzsche, Busch, Reis, Röntgen, Zuse, Daimler, Koch. These people make me proud being a german, but I dont feel any patriotism for anything else.
|
Im from venezuela(1990-2002), but my blood is 1/4 german 1/4 austrian 1/4 polish 1/4 spanish, living in spain(2002-).
I loved venezuela but not its people, here in spain if i consider myself a patriot of something it would be Europe, but not in any way xenophobe, it would be hard for me i guess, im a cultural mix.
I dont know about other countries but in spain we have the same problem as germany but obviouly not as much, waving the flag meant right or far right wing and still does(not as much as 20-30 years ago), the far left wing waves the spanish republic flag(from the 2º spanish republic1931-1939).
but as today i think spain is leaving all that behing. football is helping a lot xD
|
You don't get to choose the family you are born into, but it is still ok to love your family.
Even if you have a giant familly with people that you have never met before, can't you still love them?
|
racism is 'us' and 'them'
its that simple.
Moreover everything that is said is hugely contextual ... saying the french are cheese eating surrender monkeys really isnt that offensive in the right context. But say it to the guy whos drink you just spilt and he has a right to mop up the mess with your face imo.
|
On November 24 2011 23:20 RedHerring[Ger] wrote:
pre-emptive edit: When I started writing this, I did not realise that this hardly day-old thread has approximately a bajillion (alternatively: over 9000) answers already. I guess by this time everything that can be said has already been said. Twice, proabably. But I didnt want to let the time it took me to write this go to waste, but consider yourself warned about my overly-long and badly structured post not having any actual new information for you.
Still listening? Then here you go, have fun:
TLDR: I think we just gotta love'em all, and cheering for HasuObs shouldn't stop me from cheering for WhiteRa!
)
As an Israeli, i'll just say this.
You shouldn't feel sorry, none of you should, it's not something that you, or your father, and maybe even your grandfather did.
Not only that, but every other pepole in history, in those kind of sircumstances, of poverty, hurt national pride etc etc, would've done the same.
It is important to learn about the holocaust, and overall what happended during WW2, to ensure that nothing like this ever happens again.
|
On November 25 2011 03:14 bonedriven wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 03:03 ailouros wrote:
about as far as it goes for me is that i'm glad i was born in California and not most other places. who wouldn't? Are you glad that you were born white, not black? China is a big country and has many provinces. It is actually very common that netizens from different provinces mocking each other, like "You people like to cheat!" "You are bunch of pocket pickers!" "You people are sissies!" And China has a very long history, during which it had been ruled by emperors from many different races. Maybe one day we are invaded by aliens like the movie Independence Day, you are still...(ok, forget about the American movie)
it would be fine to be black too. i'm pretty happy to be born the way i am. which is white
|
On November 25 2011 03:47 MrTortoise wrote:
racism is 'us' and 'them'
its that simple.
Moreover everything that is said is hugely contextual ... saying the french are cheese eating surrender monkeys really isnt that offensive in the right context. But say it to the guy whos drink you just spilt and he has a right to mop up the mess with your face imo.
So me cheering for Naniwa at MLG means I am racist?
|
Patriotism is often simply the guise taken on by nationalists. And while there is nothing wrong with rationally comparing and judging the "worth" of cultures*, it must be done so in a logical manner and not one which is simply blinded to begin with by "love for one's own country".
I also understand why people would naturally identify nationally due to shared cultural experiences, but I think this is less and less of a thing today (more multiculturalism). And even if it weren't, one would have to experience many other cultures earnestly to truly say they love 'their people', as opposed to simply not knowing about others' way of life.
* I emphasize this since I think that apathy and moral relativism are just as banal as nationalism. This is especially true in western countries, for obvious historical reasons.
|
Definition of racism (wikipedia):
"Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination..."
I just feel like the word racism has been so overused and misused. Loving your country and being patriotic (without hating others) isn't racism. I love my country and want what's best for it, I gladly call myself a patriot. I can also say that I think that the current immigration situation is a bit out of hand and affecting Sweden in a fatal way.
That said, I'm not a racist. All the girls I've had are of foreign origin. My family have helped immigrants (with a good reason of migrating) to hide when forced to leave the country. I really think there could be better options to helping others than moving big amounts of people one country to another. Increasing foreign help and rebuilding countries for example.
|
On November 24 2011 09:38 liberal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 09:32 Destro wrote:
I would never fight for this country. I owe no allegiance to any flag but to people and humanity as a whole. Borders and governments are not something worth risking my life. This is all well and good... But I think we should remember that from an evolutionary standpoint, most of the people who felt this way would eventually be killed off or dominated by the people who think in the opposite way. There is a reason humans evolved to feel tribalistic emotions.
Makes sense to a degree, but I don't think you can say that those tribalistic thoughts and feelings have to be applied to a flag and borders. As cheesy as it is to say, if my "tribe" is humanity, do i not execute those same thoughts and feelings instead of calling my tribe a country with flags and borders?
|
On November 25 2011 04:58 Destro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 09:38 liberal wrote:On November 24 2011 09:32 Destro wrote:
I would never fight for this country. I owe no allegiance to any flag but to people and humanity as a whole. Borders and governments are not something worth risking my life. This is all well and good... But I think we should remember that from an evolutionary standpoint, most of the people who felt this way would eventually be killed off or dominated by the people who think in the opposite way. There is a reason humans evolved to feel tribalistic emotions. Makes sense to a degree, but I don't think you can say that those tribalistic thoughts and feelings have to be applied to a flag and borders. As cheesy as it is to say, if my "tribe" is humanity, do i not execute those same thoughts and feelings instead of calling my tribe a country with flags and borders?
Eh, you can say that, but there is no global functioning 'unit'. The highest authority and group is an individual state, so it makes sense to have national pride (or pride for any sub-national group). Whether an established group/entity is necessary to have tribalistic feelings is a whole other issue, though.
|
On November 25 2011 01:06 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 00:59 HoldenR wrote:
I do not for the life of me understand why someone can feel attachement to a country. Family, yes. But a country of millions? Why? Because some people who achieved some things at one point in time also lived within those same artificial borders, and you feel proud of their achievement and consider them to be a part of you for having been within those same artificial borders during that achievement/their life? Do you feel proud of Starcraft and the community, because of the achievements of some progamers and organizers, despite having no personal contribution to its growth?
No. Do you?
I didn't contribute, why would I feel proud?
|
On November 25 2011 05:06 HoldenR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 01:06 Dfgj wrote:On November 25 2011 00:59 HoldenR wrote:
I do not for the life of me understand why someone can feel attachement to a country. Family, yes. But a country of millions? Why? Because some people who achieved some things at one point in time also lived within those same artificial borders, and you feel proud of their achievement and consider them to be a part of you for having been within those same artificial borders during that achievement/their life? Do you feel proud of Starcraft and the community, because of the achievements of some progamers and organizers, despite having no personal contribution to its growth? No. Do you? I didn't contribute, why would I feel proud?
I'm pretty sure that on this site, you can find a thousand reasons why people are proud to play, watch, or follow this game.
The same reasons could quite likely be applied to a nation.
|
On November 25 2011 05:09 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 05:06 HoldenR wrote:On November 25 2011 01:06 Dfgj wrote:On November 25 2011 00:59 HoldenR wrote:
I do not for the life of me understand why someone can feel attachement to a country. Family, yes. But a country of millions? Why? Because some people who achieved some things at one point in time also lived within those same artificial borders, and you feel proud of their achievement and consider them to be a part of you for having been within those same artificial borders during that achievement/their life? Do you feel proud of Starcraft and the community, because of the achievements of some progamers and organizers, despite having no personal contribution to its growth? No. Do you? I didn't contribute, why would I feel proud? I'm pretty sure that on this site, you can find a thousand reasons why people are proud to play, watch, or follow this game. The same reasons could quite likely be applied to a nation.
The only reason to be proud is if they contributed, which is understandable.
How many here can tell me they made a genuine contribution to their nation's success? That if they hadn't been born, the country would have been less for it? Maybe some veterans could, and even then, drops in an ocean. When you are 300 million people, there are so few individuals that genuinely make a difference, that to be proud of the combined accomplishments of those 300 makes little sense. Hell, it makes little sense for my(or your) tiny country too, let alone something as big as the states.
|
On November 25 2011 05:16 HoldenR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 05:09 Dfgj wrote:On November 25 2011 05:06 HoldenR wrote:On November 25 2011 01:06 Dfgj wrote:On November 25 2011 00:59 HoldenR wrote:
I do not for the life of me understand why someone can feel attachement to a country. Family, yes. But a country of millions? Why? Because some people who achieved some things at one point in time also lived within those same artificial borders, and you feel proud of their achievement and consider them to be a part of you for having been within those same artificial borders during that achievement/their life? Do you feel proud of Starcraft and the community, because of the achievements of some progamers and organizers, despite having no personal contribution to its growth? No. Do you? I didn't contribute, why would I feel proud? I'm pretty sure that on this site, you can find a thousand reasons why people are proud to play, watch, or follow this game. The same reasons could quite likely be applied to a nation. The only reason to be proud is if they contributed, which is understandable. How many here can tell me they made a genuine contribution to their nation's success? That if they hadn't been born, the country would have been less for it? Maybe some veterans could, and even then, drops in an ocean. When you are 300 million people, there are so few individuals that genuinely make a difference, that to be proud of the combined accomplishments of those 300 makes little sense. Hell, it makes little sense for my(or your) tiny country too, let alone something as big as the states.
My Taxes are running this country!
Lolz  .
I'm happy to live here... Thats about it.
|
On November 25 2011 05:16 HoldenR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 05:09 Dfgj wrote:On November 25 2011 05:06 HoldenR wrote:On November 25 2011 01:06 Dfgj wrote:On November 25 2011 00:59 HoldenR wrote:
I do not for the life of me understand why someone can feel attachement to a country. Family, yes. But a country of millions? Why? Because some people who achieved some things at one point in time also lived within those same artificial borders, and you feel proud of their achievement and consider them to be a part of you for having been within those same artificial borders during that achievement/their life? Do you feel proud of Starcraft and the community, because of the achievements of some progamers and organizers, despite having no personal contribution to its growth? No. Do you? I didn't contribute, why would I feel proud? I'm pretty sure that on this site, you can find a thousand reasons why people are proud to play, watch, or follow this game. The same reasons could quite likely be applied to a nation. The only reason to be proud is if they contributed, which is understandable. How many here can tell me they made a genuine contribution to their nation's success? That if they hadn't been born, the country would have been less for it? Maybe some veterans could, and even then, drops in an ocean. When you are 300 million people, there are so few individuals that genuinely make a difference, that to be proud of the combined accomplishments of those 300 makes little sense. Hell, it makes little sense for my(or your) tiny country too, let alone something as big as the states.
I disagree. I don't think pride in an achievement need be broken down by who did what, you can have pride in the achievement of your group regardless of the scale of your contribution. People enjoy feeling like a part of a group, or supporting a successful group (sports fans, for instance), regardless of how much they matter to it individually, or on what scale.
|
in Germany, there ain't much patriotism since WW2. It is frowned opon, and for a good reason. As an example: There is seriously about 10-20 times more flags from other countries hanging from houses than the german flag in every city. Germans are usually not really proud of their country, and how could they be. The only time you see Germany flags in Germany basically are the international soccer cups. That lasts for how long the europe championship/world championship goes, and then it stops. And it usually isn't really even patriotism, it is more like the young Generations want a reason to party, and media told them this would be the right place to be crazy.
Also, we are really sensitive to nationalism/racism. For example the only political party that is somewhat nationalistic is looked into again, the government (and really most germans) hopes to find some evidence that it is related to racism/neo-nazism to shut it down for good
funny enough, even if i wanted to be proud of my country, i cannot. My mother's parents are from former east prussia which was german for hundreds of years and became lithuanian after WW2. So yeah, half of the place my roots are from even does not really exist anymore
|
Is saddens me a little that I was born in this time and age, we are living in an era that will probably be known as the dark ages or primitive/violent era where the world was so divided and there were wars constantly between nations, until whatever year probably 10 000 or so, after which humanity will be much more united, this will be achieved only by the advancement of technology ofc, so keep it up good scientist men! we all rely on you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
