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On November 23 2011 22:08 naggerNZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 22:07 Sfydjklm wrote:On November 23 2011 22:00 Vorenius wrote:On November 23 2011 21:45 Skilledblob wrote:On November 23 2011 21:37 Harmen wrote:On November 23 2011 21:33 Skilledblob wrote:
I ask myself when will people understand that there is no such thing as "the Islam". People here have no clue about culture, history or the contents of basic islamic literature and probably dont even understand that there is no such thing as a homogenous muslim religion.
And yet still every time something happens in muslim countries it is always because of the religion. Maybe that is because of their widespread use of sharia or sharia based laws. The moral code and religious law of the islam. Which sadly states such things, as does the christian faith. So yes you can directly blame religion and its backwards ways. you probably didnt even read the sharia and neither did I so why do you think that you are qualified to give any statements about it's contents and how these have to be aplied? This is a question you can find bookshelves full of arabic literature about. So like I said there is no "the islam" or "the sharia". the most important moral code for Afghanistans Pashtu population is the pashtunwali which is not a written moral code and this is the real problem. It's not an attack against Islam, but religous fanatacism in general. It just happens to be that Islamic fundamentalists are immensely more influencial than their cristian or jewish counterparts. Cristians and Jews have just as stupid and hateful laws as Muslims, which is why no countries take that shit serious. So yes, Islam is a retarded religion. People shouldn't be afraid of saying that. That doesn't make it any worse than other major religions of course. islam isnt stupid, people are. Billions of followers and barely anyone actually bothers to comprehend the manuscripts. Instead it's the prophets that promise the most juicy pieces of the pie that get any attention. Sadly most people in the world are driven just by that- self interest and complete inability to employ logical thinking. Exactly. If people just employ some logical thinking they would immediately realize how legit Islamic scripture is. It's so legit, man.
have you ever read Islamic scripture.
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On November 23 2011 21:45 Skilledblob wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 21:37 Harmen wrote:On November 23 2011 21:33 Skilledblob wrote:
I ask myself when will people understand that there is no such thing as "the Islam". People here have no clue about culture, history or the contents of basic islamic literature and probably dont even understand that there is no such thing as a homogenous muslim religion.
And yet still every time something happens in muslim countries it is always because of the religion. Maybe that is because of their widespread use of sharia or sharia based laws. The moral code and religious law of the islam. Which sadly states such things, as does the christian faith. So yes you can directly blame religion and its backwards ways. you probably didnt even read the sharia and neither did I so why do you think that you are qualified to give any statements about it's contents and how these have to be aplied? This is a question you can find bookshelves full of arabic literature about. So like I said there is no "the islam" or "the sharia". the most important moral code for Afghanistans Pashtu population is the pashtunwali which is not a written moral code and this is the real problem.
You are right, I never read the whole 'sharia' law, I did however read studies on it and detailed summaries of its contents. I also read books on arabic culture and history. However that is completely besides the point.
Even if you did or did not read the sharia the way these laws are interpreted and used is a direct result of religious indoctrination and widespread cultural beliefs generated through these religions. Note how I am saying religions and not islam in particular. The same thing applies to the extremely harmful and silly statements the catholic church makes about numerous subjects such as condom use NOT preventing AIDS.
Fact is any Koran based religion (as are bible based ones) is very unfriendly to women and as a result their cultures are also very unfriendly to women, as demonstrated by this case and numerous others. So it is not strange to see people saying bad things about these religions, because cases like this really DO put them in a bad light.
On a side note however all the people saying 'Nuke the shithole' and similar remarks are equally clueless bigots.
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On November 23 2011 22:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
This is just sickening. I'm the same species as those people? How embarrassing.
I've said that same thing many a time whilst reading history.
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We live in a sick world full of sick people..
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Sounds fair... >_<
The moral compass the society has over there in certain issues is depressing sometimes. 
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What is disgusting is all the posters here on TL taking the "moral high ground".
Really, what do we/you know about culture/justice? I say they can handle on their own. Our disgust over it, no matter what it is, is a product of ignorance, or worse unchecked elitism. This cultural difference occur everywhere, why should Afganistan be singled out? In the USA, you can divorce, which is totally inhumane and completely idiotic for the Arabs. Not to mention all the wars the US has started in the name of "democracy". In some tribes in Africa, the boys are introduced to adulthood by making them have sex with their sisters, and drink the semen of older men.
Let them solve their "situation/problem". Keep your judgment to yourself.
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i don't understand this.
seriously
how can the LAW do this? i seriously can't understand their though process. I don't see how it's rational to put in jail because of adultery when she was raped.
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Some traditions are just too much.
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On November 23 2011 22:14 Zvek wrote:
What is disgusting is all the posters here on TL taking the "moral high ground".
Really, what do we/you know about culture/justice? I say they can handle on their own. Our disgust over it, no matter what it is, is a product of ignorance, or worse unchecked elitism. This cultural difference occur everywhere, why should Afganistan be singled out? In the USA, you can divorce, which is totally inhumane and completely idiotic for the Arabs. Not to mention all the wars the US has started in the name of "democracy". In some tribes in Africa, the boys are introduced to adulthood by making them have sex with their sisters, and drink the semen of older men.
Let them solve their "situation/problem". Keep your judgment to yourself.
All of those things are disgusting and should not be tolerated. Of course we have problems with out culture aswell, I for one think that death penalty is ridiculous, also I don't understand how gay marriage is still illegal etc.......
You don't HAVE to tolerate other cultures, you can be reasonable, when you see something like this and be RIGHTFULLY DISGUSTED.
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i would really like to hear what someone from Afghanistan has to say about this, i guess there would be some sc2 players from Afghanistan on TL.. but i mean, seriously this is so wrong, i dont even find words..
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We're in 2011, we're an evolved specie, we are clever and... shit.... we do stuff that are dumber than the dumbest animal (beside human) could ever do. This is just too disgusting to be true.
Human rights organization and all people with some sort of influence or power should DO SOMETHING.
This is so fucked up... How can this be ?
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
Don't worry guys, Christian women get raped in the muslim world all the time. This is the war America is fighting: to replace the Taliban with another regime sympathetic to the evils of Islam.
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On November 23 2011 22:00 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 21:45 Skilledblob wrote:On November 23 2011 21:37 Harmen wrote:On November 23 2011 21:33 Skilledblob wrote:
I ask myself when will people understand that there is no such thing as "the Islam". People here have no clue about culture, history or the contents of basic islamic literature and probably dont even understand that there is no such thing as a homogenous muslim religion.
And yet still every time something happens in muslim countries it is always because of the religion. Maybe that is because of their widespread use of sharia or sharia based laws. The moral code and religious law of the islam. Which sadly states such things, as does the christian faith. So yes you can directly blame religion and its backwards ways. you probably didnt even read the sharia and neither did I so why do you think that you are qualified to give any statements about it's contents and how these have to be aplied? This is a question you can find bookshelves full of arabic literature about. So like I said there is no "the islam" or "the sharia". the most important moral code for Afghanistans Pashtu population is the pashtunwali which is not a written moral code and this is the real problem. It's not an attack against Islam, but religous fanatacism in general. It just happens to be that Islamic fundamentalists are immensely more influencial than their cristian or jewish counterparts. Cristians and Jews have just as stupid and hateful laws as Muslims, which is why no countries take that shit serious. So yes, Islam is a retarded religion. People shouldn't be afraid of saying that. That doesn't make it any worse than other major religions of course.
This.
Even in the US a supposedly "religious" nation if you kill your kid or bomb an abortion clinic your ass still goes to jail. This shit is never going to end as long as people give it a pass in the name of "tolerance" "culture" and "religion". Im Christian. It says in the bible that you should be killed for working on sunday. Now I have yet to go kill anyone because they were mowing their lawn after church. Why? Because religions evolve along with everything else. These countries should be required to conform to the basic humane standards of the civilized world or be cut off from all its benefits.
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On November 23 2011 22:10 Harmen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 21:45 Skilledblob wrote:On November 23 2011 21:37 Harmen wrote:On November 23 2011 21:33 Skilledblob wrote:
I ask myself when will people understand that there is no such thing as "the Islam". People here have no clue about culture, history or the contents of basic islamic literature and probably dont even understand that there is no such thing as a homogenous muslim religion.
And yet still every time something happens in muslim countries it is always because of the religion. Maybe that is because of their widespread use of sharia or sharia based laws. The moral code and religious law of the islam. Which sadly states such things, as does the christian faith. So yes you can directly blame religion and its backwards ways. you probably didnt even read the sharia and neither did I so why do you think that you are qualified to give any statements about it's contents and how these have to be aplied? This is a question you can find bookshelves full of arabic literature about. So like I said there is no "the islam" or "the sharia". the most important moral code for Afghanistans Pashtu population is the pashtunwali which is not a written moral code and this is the real problem. You are right, I never read the whole 'sharia' law, I did however read studies on it and detailed summaries of its contents. I also read books on arabic culture and history. However that is completely besides the point. Even if you did or did not read the sharia the way these laws are interpreted and used is a direct result of religious indoctrination and widespread cultural beliefs generated through these religions. Note how I am saying religions and not islam in particular. The same thing applies to the extremely harmful and silly statements the catholic church makes about numerous subjects such as condom use NOT preventing AIDS. Fact is any Koran based religion (as are bible based ones) is very unfriendly to women and as a result their cultures are also very unfriendly to women, as demonstrated by this case and numerous others. So it is not strange to see people saying bad things about these religions, because cases like this really DO put them in a bad light. On a side note however all the people saying 'Nuke the shithole' and similar remarks are equally clueless bigots.
Now mate, let me know how any "bible based" religion is very unfriendly towards women. Explain in no uncertain terms. With full understanding of the old and new covenants. I hope you actually know some theology before just taking bits and pieces out of anything. Because anyone can take anything out of context and quote-mine inappropriately. We can use PM if you think this will spiral out of control. I get frustrated when people lump the bible with any other religious text, sorry.
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On November 23 2011 22:14 Zvek wrote:
In some tribes in Africa, the boys are introduced to adulthood by making them have sex with their sisters, and drink the semen of older men.
Let them solve their "situation/problem". Keep your judgment to yourself.
While you're calling us culturally ignorant you might want realize that those tribes that have that disgusting semen ritual are from papau new guinea not "Africa". If you're going to insult us for being intolerant you could atleast be correct and not a hypocrite.
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On November 23 2011 22:21 Detwiler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 22:00 Vorenius wrote:On November 23 2011 21:45 Skilledblob wrote:On November 23 2011 21:37 Harmen wrote:On November 23 2011 21:33 Skilledblob wrote:
I ask myself when will people understand that there is no such thing as "the Islam". People here have no clue about culture, history or the contents of basic islamic literature and probably dont even understand that there is no such thing as a homogenous muslim religion.
And yet still every time something happens in muslim countries it is always because of the religion. Maybe that is because of their widespread use of sharia or sharia based laws. The moral code and religious law of the islam. Which sadly states such things, as does the christian faith. So yes you can directly blame religion and its backwards ways. you probably didnt even read the sharia and neither did I so why do you think that you are qualified to give any statements about it's contents and how these have to be aplied? This is a question you can find bookshelves full of arabic literature about. So like I said there is no "the islam" or "the sharia". the most important moral code for Afghanistans Pashtu population is the pashtunwali which is not a written moral code and this is the real problem. It's not an attack against Islam, but religous fanatacism in general. It just happens to be that Islamic fundamentalists are immensely more influencial than their cristian or jewish counterparts. Cristians and Jews have just as stupid and hateful laws as Muslims, which is why no countries take that shit serious. So yes, Islam is a retarded religion. People shouldn't be afraid of saying that. That doesn't make it any worse than other major religions of course. This. Even in the US a supposedly "religious" nation if you kill your kid or bomb an abortion clinic your ass still goes to jail. This shit is never going to end as long as people give it a pass in the name of "tolerance" "culture" and "religion". Im Christian. It says in the bible that you should be killed for working on sunday. Now I have yet to go kill anyone because they were mowing their lawn after church. Why? Because religions evolve along with everything else. These countries should be required to conform to the basic humane standards of the civilized world or be cut off from all its benefits. And you my brother in Christ, need to learn some covenant theology... Or else you and I SHOULD have been dead 10000x over. Romans ch.1-8, Galatians are good places to start. We are not jews and we are called Gentiles for a reason.
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She got raped twice, once by that cousin's husband and by the legal system.
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On November 23 2011 21:37 Harmen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 21:33 Skilledblob wrote:
I ask myself when will people understand that there is no such thing as "the Islam". People here have no clue about culture, history or the contents of basic islamic literature and probably dont even understand that there is no such thing as a homogenous muslim religion.
And yet still every time something happens in muslim countries it is always because of the religion. Maybe that is because of their widespread use of sharia or sharia based laws. The moral code and religious law of the islam. Which sadly states such things, as does the christian faith. So yes you can directly blame religion and its backwards ways. lol at the "as does the Christian faith". Now mate, explain how any of the shari'a law mandated discrimination against apostates, women etc are reflected in the Christian faith. Note: Christian. Note: Not the old covenant.
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On November 23 2011 22:08 naggerNZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 22:07 Sfydjklm wrote:On November 23 2011 22:00 Vorenius wrote:On November 23 2011 21:45 Skilledblob wrote:On November 23 2011 21:37 Harmen wrote:On November 23 2011 21:33 Skilledblob wrote:
I ask myself when will people understand that there is no such thing as "the Islam". People here have no clue about culture, history or the contents of basic islamic literature and probably dont even understand that there is no such thing as a homogenous muslim religion.
And yet still every time something happens in muslim countries it is always because of the religion. Maybe that is because of their widespread use of sharia or sharia based laws. The moral code and religious law of the islam. Which sadly states such things, as does the christian faith. So yes you can directly blame religion and its backwards ways. you probably didnt even read the sharia and neither did I so why do you think that you are qualified to give any statements about it's contents and how these have to be aplied? This is a question you can find bookshelves full of arabic literature about. So like I said there is no "the islam" or "the sharia". the most important moral code for Afghanistans Pashtu population is the pashtunwali which is not a written moral code and this is the real problem. It's not an attack against Islam, but religous fanatacism in general. It just happens to be that Islamic fundamentalists are immensely more influencial than their cristian or jewish counterparts. Cristians and Jews have just as stupid and hateful laws as Muslims, which is why no countries take that shit serious. So yes, Islam is a retarded religion. People shouldn't be afraid of saying that. That doesn't make it any worse than other major religions of course. islam isnt stupid, people are. Billions of followers and barely anyone actually bothers to comprehend the manuscripts. Instead it's the prophets that promise the most juicy pieces of the pie that get any attention. Sadly most people in the world are driven just by that- self interest and complete inability to employ logical thinking. Exactly. If people just employ some logical thinking they would immediately realize how legit Islamic scripture is. It's so legit, man.
I wouldn't blame Islam here. Like with any tool humans have, you can use it for good or bad things. Look at the church. Today they do a lot of charity work etc. and 400 years ago they were burning people alive for not believing in their god. So i think in this case it is the society itself that is primitive and employs a primitive interpretation of a religion, in this case the Islam. And many cant imagine how much people are manipulated into doing stupid things. But please get me right, i am not religious at all. Actually quite the opposite. I just think that we shouldn't fall for easy answers and easy explanations. And its a fact that we must live with this kind of behavior for now. But its true that Islam right now has issues with violence but i think it derives much more from the cultures of the regions then from the religion itself. Islam just didn't have a time of Renaissance like Europe and therefore the western world had where the state and religion could be separated. Of course the case of this woman is an act of barbarism, but don't judge everybody for being born into a shithole like Afghanistan. We were lucky to be born in the west and to be educated. These people didn't have that luck.
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United Arab Emirates18 Posts
As far as I'm concerned, I know that rape is punished by death penalty or whipping depending on the circumstances + compensation(not a fixed amount). Different scholars have different views on the matter.
Currently, Jail have substituted whipping but the death penalty still stands especially if he threatened with a weapon IIRC, didn't compare the country's laws with islamic law.
At any rate, its very tragic that the victims are blamed even if its proven just because of "honor". Cultures commit serious crimes using honor as an excuse but there is nothing honorable about what they are doing. (Another example would be old pagan/polytheist Arabs, who used to bury their daughters in fear of "shame" and "dishonor".)
Finally, The face cover is a cultural thing, scholars have had different opinions but the majority say its a cultural thing. Many departments discourage it due to ID reasons, you don't want people dealing with masked employees especially if that person deals with sensitive issues and you won't be able to identify them later.
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EPT
