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On November 06 2011 22:26 ayaz2810 wrote:
I'm more terrified that people in this thread are referring to liking child port like it's a harmless furry fetish. The exploitation of children for pornography or sexual pleasure in general is pretty much the worst thing someone can do short of killing another human being. In some cases, it could probably be considered worse. It amounts to psychological torture during the abuse, and for years after. I obviously can't speak for any other cultures or countries, but I think a zero tolerance approach here is a pretty good one.
Granted, I understand that the American justice system is fucked up. The prisons are overcrowded, and there are some ridiculous "crimes" out there, but being involved in CP in any way, shape, or form is unacceptable. Maybe I'm just biased because I have a 7 year old and a 5 year old daughter. Regardless, sterilize him and lock him up.
This is not a case about someone who sexually abused children, but rather a case about someone who possessed child pornography created by other people over a file sharing network. Do you honestly think this man is worse than a drunk driver, a rapist, or someone who engages in domestic violence? Since you brought up the "harmless" furry fetish, there are many stories on furry websites that describe child pornography and incest but refer to children as "cubs." Are people who write stories describing child pornography just as guilty as those who produce real child pornography? People are going to fantasize regardless of whether or not actual child pornography exists. The act of indulging in that fantasy by molesting a child is the real crime, not the act of fantasizing.
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On November 06 2011 10:32 Tremendous wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 10:16 Prospero wrote:On November 06 2011 10:11 Tremendous wrote:
Execute the bastard! No need to waste a prison cell on scum like that ! Did you read the article? It questions whether or not downloading child pornography merits a similar punishment as first degree murder, and whether judges should sentence according to what they fear (looking at child porn leading to molestation) versus what they actually did (looking at child porn). I'm not sure downloading the stuff warrants execution. I dont see why this guy should get off easier than a murderer for supporting an industry that make a living by sexualy abusing small children. It is by far the most disgusting and perverted thing a person can do if you ask me. I also dont see how the fact that its his first crimminal offence should factor into this. Its more like that its just the first time he got caught. This sentence is obviously a statement and the high sentence is meant to scare the pedos. Like that woman that got fined 1.5 millon for share 100 songs. Anyway, If they are going to lock the guy up until he dies they might aswell put him down right then and there. Whats the point of locking him up just to wait for him to die?
if you dont see "why this guy should get off easier than a murderer for supporting an industry..." you are actually not qualified to say anything. and your last paragraph...JEZ, yours views are totally twisted.
He was "only" looking at it! Not producing it! Not directly hurting anyway! Supporting the industry indirectly: in a way. But hell, this is no reason for giving a freakin life sentence. This is madness.
And yes, it is possible that he didnt even know these pictures were on his computer.
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I have a conspiracy theory that most of these media publications are not real. They serve as a warning for future cases. It is an attempt to terrorize the population as to not behave a certain way. You are meant to go just like "shit, shit, I am never getting anywhere near child pornography because I risk a life sentence from our disproportional justice system".
Though, this theory can be easily argued. I mean, why would they make such controversial news that raises so many questions, such as: Did he get this sentence because of his Latino origins? Is the justice system fair? Etc...
Who knows, though? o_O
Maybe it just sucks, really. Though I totally disagree with child pornography, it was indisputably wrong to sentence a guy to life prison from merely possessing these pictures. Sounds like a decision you'd have from an authoritarian, rather than democratic, state.
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This sentence is ridiculous, that man did not harm anybody and could probably more or less easily helped and rehabilitated, without ever doing harm to a child in his life.
Instead he gets sentenced to life in prison, if he ever gets out he will probably kill or rape someone, and then die.
The sentence will probably be turned down by a highter instance, everything else would be ridiculous.
PS: It goes without saying that I am highly disgusted by child pornography aswell, but that does not mean that people who watch it lose their human rights.
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On November 06 2011 22:43 Probe1 wrote:
Carush please elaborate on why rape is not more cruel than murder instead of just throwing out some pithy response. General forum usually is not a place I like to inhabit for reasons completely explained by your post.
Edit: You said "our" history. I was referring to a more broad outlook on all species. A moose doesn't rape other meese.
Dolphins gang rape other dolphins, and they're, I think, the third most intelligent species on the planet.
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On November 06 2011 22:35 MrSalamandra wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 22:26 ayaz2810 wrote:
I'm more terrified that people in this thread are referring to liking child port like it's a harmless furry fetish. The exploitation of children for pornography or sexual pleasure in general is pretty much the worst thing someone can do short of killing another human being. In some cases, it could probably be considered worse. It amounts to psychological torture during the abuse, and for years after. I obviously can't speak for any other cultures or countries, but I think a zero tolerance approach here is a pretty good one.
Granted, I understand that the American justice system is fucked up. The prisons are overcrowded, and there are some ridiculous "crimes" out there, but being involved in CP in any way, shape, or form is unacceptable. Maybe I'm just biased because I have a 7 year old and a 5 year old daughter. Regardless, sterilize him and lock him up. Firstly, in this particular case, he contributed to the actual bad thing a negligible amount. No one is saying that sexually abusing children is alright. The punishment should fit the harm caused by the crime. How much harm is caused by this crime? Pretty much none. He saw pictures. That's it. Since you've mentioned killing a human being... how many people have seen pictures of murdered people? Essentially everyone. How many people have seen videos of someone being murdered? A lot of people. These are seen as relatively normal, and no one accuses you of contributing to the murder. Yet seeing a video or even pictures of a lesser (not trivializing it, but it is not as bad as murder) crime taking part is somehow so much worse? It isn't.
Compairing CP to videos/pictures of murders is beyond retarded. Do you people who do this even believe in that argument yourselves?
1. Child rape is arguably a worse crime than murder. Some people who were raped as children would probably rather get killed before it happened. That's how damaged they are after it.
2. Even if you say murder is worse, comparing someone watching someone get murder and someone beating off to CP is two completely different things. And very few people actually enjoy watching someone get murdered. But they still do it because it's one of those things you think is horrible but can't stop watching. While someone watching CP is liking it. Completely different things.
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On November 06 2011 22:43 Probe1 wrote:
EDIT NO FUCK THIS I JUST FELL IN THE GENERAL FORUM TRAP OF ARGUING ABOUT SOMETHING ONLY MILDLY RELATED TO THE ACTUAL SUBJECT.
This punishment is disproportionately severe compared to the crime and will be overturned in appeal. I am confident of this. It goes without saying that I agree on harsher punishments for rape and child porn but this goes well beyond harsher and into the realm of ridiculous.
I'm done with this. Dolphins do not rape new born dolphins.
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On November 06 2011 22:49 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 22:43 Probe1 wrote:
EDIT NO FUCK THIS I JUST FELL IN THE GENERAL FORUM TRAP OF ARGUING ABOUT SOMETHING ONLY MILDLY RELATED TO THE ACTUAL SUBJECT.
This punishment is disproportionately severe compared to the crime and will be overturned in appeal. I am confident of this. It goes without saying that I agree on harsher punishments for rape and child porn but this goes well beyond harsher and into the realm of ridiculous. I'm done with this. Dolphins do not rape new born dolphins.
Didn't say they do. I'm in no way advocating rape, just pointed out a species that does rape. Relatedly, looking at pictures of rape =/= rape.
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On November 06 2011 22:48 Gnax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 22:35 MrSalamandra wrote:On November 06 2011 22:26 ayaz2810 wrote:
I'm more terrified that people in this thread are referring to liking child port like it's a harmless furry fetish. The exploitation of children for pornography or sexual pleasure in general is pretty much the worst thing someone can do short of killing another human being. In some cases, it could probably be considered worse. It amounts to psychological torture during the abuse, and for years after. I obviously can't speak for any other cultures or countries, but I think a zero tolerance approach here is a pretty good one.
Granted, I understand that the American justice system is fucked up. The prisons are overcrowded, and there are some ridiculous "crimes" out there, but being involved in CP in any way, shape, or form is unacceptable. Maybe I'm just biased because I have a 7 year old and a 5 year old daughter. Regardless, sterilize him and lock him up. Firstly, in this particular case, he contributed to the actual bad thing a negligible amount. No one is saying that sexually abusing children is alright. The punishment should fit the harm caused by the crime. How much harm is caused by this crime? Pretty much none. He saw pictures. That's it. Since you've mentioned killing a human being... how many people have seen pictures of murdered people? Essentially everyone. How many people have seen videos of someone being murdered? A lot of people. These are seen as relatively normal, and no one accuses you of contributing to the murder. Yet seeing a video or even pictures of a lesser (not trivializing it, but it is not as bad as murder) crime taking part is somehow so much worse? It isn't. Compairing CP to videos/pictures of murders is beyond retarded. Do you people who do this even believe in that argument yourselves? 1. Child rape is arguably a worse crime than murder. Some people who were raped as children would probably rather get killed before it happened. That's how damaged they are after it. 2. Even if you say murder is worse, comparing someone watching someone get murder and someone beating off to CP is two completely different things. And very few people actually enjoy watching someone get murdered. But they still do it because it's one of those things you think is horrible but can't stop watching. While someone watching CP is liking it. Completely different things.
@2. How do you know people dont enjoy watching murders? And what has that got to do with anything? You have no idea why this guys was downloading CP.
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On November 06 2011 22:52 dpurple wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 22:48 Gnax wrote:On November 06 2011 22:35 MrSalamandra wrote:On November 06 2011 22:26 ayaz2810 wrote:
I'm more terrified that people in this thread are referring to liking child port like it's a harmless furry fetish. The exploitation of children for pornography or sexual pleasure in general is pretty much the worst thing someone can do short of killing another human being. In some cases, it could probably be considered worse. It amounts to psychological torture during the abuse, and for years after. I obviously can't speak for any other cultures or countries, but I think a zero tolerance approach here is a pretty good one.
Granted, I understand that the American justice system is fucked up. The prisons are overcrowded, and there are some ridiculous "crimes" out there, but being involved in CP in any way, shape, or form is unacceptable. Maybe I'm just biased because I have a 7 year old and a 5 year old daughter. Regardless, sterilize him and lock him up. Firstly, in this particular case, he contributed to the actual bad thing a negligible amount. No one is saying that sexually abusing children is alright. The punishment should fit the harm caused by the crime. How much harm is caused by this crime? Pretty much none. He saw pictures. That's it. Since you've mentioned killing a human being... how many people have seen pictures of murdered people? Essentially everyone. How many people have seen videos of someone being murdered? A lot of people. These are seen as relatively normal, and no one accuses you of contributing to the murder. Yet seeing a video or even pictures of a lesser (not trivializing it, but it is not as bad as murder) crime taking part is somehow so much worse? It isn't. Compairing CP to videos/pictures of murders is beyond retarded. Do you people who do this even believe in that argument yourselves? 1. Child rape is arguably a worse crime than murder. Some people who were raped as children would probably rather get killed before it happened. That's how damaged they are after it. 2. Even if you say murder is worse, comparing someone watching someone get murder and someone beating off to CP is two completely different things. And very few people actually enjoy watching someone get murdered. But they still do it because it's one of those things you think is horrible but can't stop watching. While someone watching CP is liking it. Completely different things. @2. How do you know people dont enjoy watching murders? And what has that got to do with anything? You have no idea why this guys was downloading CP.
Yes I do. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why people download CP.
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On November 06 2011 22:51 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 22:48 Gnax wrote:On November 06 2011 22:35 MrSalamandra wrote:On November 06 2011 22:26 ayaz2810 wrote:
I'm more terrified that people in this thread are referring to liking child port like it's a harmless furry fetish. The exploitation of children for pornography or sexual pleasure in general is pretty much the worst thing someone can do short of killing another human being. In some cases, it could probably be considered worse. It amounts to psychological torture during the abuse, and for years after. I obviously can't speak for any other cultures or countries, but I think a zero tolerance approach here is a pretty good one.
Granted, I understand that the American justice system is fucked up. The prisons are overcrowded, and there are some ridiculous "crimes" out there, but being involved in CP in any way, shape, or form is unacceptable. Maybe I'm just biased because I have a 7 year old and a 5 year old daughter. Regardless, sterilize him and lock him up. Firstly, in this particular case, he contributed to the actual bad thing a negligible amount. No one is saying that sexually abusing children is alright. The punishment should fit the harm caused by the crime. How much harm is caused by this crime? Pretty much none. He saw pictures. That's it. Since you've mentioned killing a human being... how many people have seen pictures of murdered people? Essentially everyone. How many people have seen videos of someone being murdered? A lot of people. These are seen as relatively normal, and no one accuses you of contributing to the murder. Yet seeing a video or even pictures of a lesser (not trivializing it, but it is not as bad as murder) crime taking part is somehow so much worse? It isn't. Compairing CP to videos/pictures of murders is beyond retarded. Do you people who do this even believe in that argument yourselves? 1. Child rape is arguably a worse crime than murder. Some people who were raped as children would probably rather get killed before it happened. That's how damaged they are after it. 2. Even if you say murder is worse, comparing someone watching someone get murder and someone beating off to CP is two completely different things. And very few people actually enjoy watching someone get murdered. But they still do it because it's one of those things you think is horrible but can't stop watching. While someone watching CP is liking it. Completely different things. Wait... you think raping a child, is worse than murdering a child?
Yeah
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On November 06 2011 22:49 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 22:43 Probe1 wrote:
EDIT NO FUCK THIS I JUST FELL IN THE GENERAL FORUM TRAP OF ARGUING ABOUT SOMETHING ONLY MILDLY RELATED TO THE ACTUAL SUBJECT.
This punishment is disproportionately severe compared to the crime and will be overturned in appeal. I am confident of this. It goes without saying that I agree on harsher punishments for rape and child porn but this goes well beyond harsher and into the realm of ridiculous. I'm done with this. Dolphins do not rape new born dolphins.
if you're done with this, then be done with this. quit adding in new things that are probably wrong. forced copulation is indeed observed between other animals as well as infanticide and cannibalism of the young and old. i will be fair. i don't know if there are child molester dolphins.
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On November 06 2011 22:56 Gnax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 22:52 dpurple wrote:On November 06 2011 22:48 Gnax wrote:On November 06 2011 22:35 MrSalamandra wrote:On November 06 2011 22:26 ayaz2810 wrote:
I'm more terrified that people in this thread are referring to liking child port like it's a harmless furry fetish. The exploitation of children for pornography or sexual pleasure in general is pretty much the worst thing someone can do short of killing another human being. In some cases, it could probably be considered worse. It amounts to psychological torture during the abuse, and for years after. I obviously can't speak for any other cultures or countries, but I think a zero tolerance approach here is a pretty good one.
Granted, I understand that the American justice system is fucked up. The prisons are overcrowded, and there are some ridiculous "crimes" out there, but being involved in CP in any way, shape, or form is unacceptable. Maybe I'm just biased because I have a 7 year old and a 5 year old daughter. Regardless, sterilize him and lock him up. Firstly, in this particular case, he contributed to the actual bad thing a negligible amount. No one is saying that sexually abusing children is alright. The punishment should fit the harm caused by the crime. How much harm is caused by this crime? Pretty much none. He saw pictures. That's it. Since you've mentioned killing a human being... how many people have seen pictures of murdered people? Essentially everyone. How many people have seen videos of someone being murdered? A lot of people. These are seen as relatively normal, and no one accuses you of contributing to the murder. Yet seeing a video or even pictures of a lesser (not trivializing it, but it is not as bad as murder) crime taking part is somehow so much worse? It isn't. Compairing CP to videos/pictures of murders is beyond retarded. Do you people who do this even believe in that argument yourselves? 1. Child rape is arguably a worse crime than murder. Some people who were raped as children would probably rather get killed before it happened. That's how damaged they are after it. 2. Even if you say murder is worse, comparing someone watching someone get murder and someone beating off to CP is two completely different things. And very few people actually enjoy watching someone get murdered. But they still do it because it's one of those things you think is horrible but can't stop watching. While someone watching CP is liking it. Completely different things. @2. How do you know people dont enjoy watching murders? And what has that got to do with anything? You have no idea why this guys was downloading CP. Yes I do. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why people download CP.
Im sure alot of pedophiles justify them watching CP the same way you do with watching murders though....
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On November 06 2011 22:48 Gnax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 22:35 MrSalamandra wrote:On November 06 2011 22:26 ayaz2810 wrote:
I'm more terrified that people in this thread are referring to liking child port like it's a harmless furry fetish. The exploitation of children for pornography or sexual pleasure in general is pretty much the worst thing someone can do short of killing another human being. In some cases, it could probably be considered worse. It amounts to psychological torture during the abuse, and for years after. I obviously can't speak for any other cultures or countries, but I think a zero tolerance approach here is a pretty good one.
Granted, I understand that the American justice system is fucked up. The prisons are overcrowded, and there are some ridiculous "crimes" out there, but being involved in CP in any way, shape, or form is unacceptable. Maybe I'm just biased because I have a 7 year old and a 5 year old daughter. Regardless, sterilize him and lock him up. Firstly, in this particular case, he contributed to the actual bad thing a negligible amount. No one is saying that sexually abusing children is alright. The punishment should fit the harm caused by the crime. How much harm is caused by this crime? Pretty much none. He saw pictures. That's it. Since you've mentioned killing a human being... how many people have seen pictures of murdered people? Essentially everyone. How many people have seen videos of someone being murdered? A lot of people. These are seen as relatively normal, and no one accuses you of contributing to the murder. Yet seeing a video or even pictures of a lesser (not trivializing it, but it is not as bad as murder) crime taking part is somehow so much worse? It isn't. Compairing CP to videos/pictures of murders is beyond retarded. Do you people who do this even believe in that argument yourselves? 1. Child rape is arguably a worse crime than murder. Some people who were raped as children would probably rather get killed before it happened. That's how damaged they are after it. 2. Even if you say murder is worse, comparing someone watching someone get murder and someone beating off to CP is two completely different things. And very few people actually enjoy watching someone get murdered. But they still do it because it's one of those things you think is horrible but can't stop watching. While someone watching CP is liking it. Completely different things.
1. Not particularly relevant. I'm extremely against child rape, the perpetrators should be punished very severely for that, as should the perpetrators of murder. Murder still deserves a harsher sentence though, even if only for strictly practical purposes. If the harshest sentence possible is given for rape, then the person has nothing to lose and a much higher possibility of getting away with it if they kill them as well.
2. I'm not really saying that the motivations for people watching a murder and someone watching child porn are the same, but the important thing is not the motivation, but the act done and the harm caused by it. In both cases, the harm caused is... ~none.
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Whats next? locking people up for owning lolicon?
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On November 06 2011 22:37 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 22:30 Animzor wrote:On November 06 2011 22:28 underscore wrote:On November 06 2011 22:20 JulsFoF wrote:On November 06 2011 10:15 madcow305 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Sex, and sex-based crimes have always received a disproportionate amount of punishment and scorn from society.
You can view videos of a child getting killed online, without being arrested. But, if you view a video of a child being raped, you end up like this guy.
There are plenty of cases available for study where a rapist receives a worse sentence than a murderer.
I believe it has to do with western culture and its views on sex in comparison to its views on violence. Again, you can see videos of people getting killed, sometimes in the most gruesome ways, on television and in theaters. But, you will never see a full-frontal sex scene where you can see the penis or vagina clearly.
EDIT: The people who posted before me are perfect examples of how warped society's view on sex and sex crimes are.
Someone actually thinks this guy should be executed for possession for looking at kids naked online. wise words The urge to kill is an important human instinct. We wouldn't exist whithout it. Whereas fucking a child is not so much needed. Congratulations, might be the dumbest post in the thread so far. Ehh he's completely right. We're by our very nature destructive and terrible creatures. Killing is part of survival as sad as that is. Rape is not. I think he's completely wrong. The instinct to kill is to murder as the instinct to have sex is to rape. He's creating a false dichotomy.
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Wow. Pretty draconian approche in my opinion.
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Claiming that rape is worse than murder is nothing but irrational. Saying that people who were molested as children would rather be dead is complete nonsense and you all know it - if they wanted to be dead they would be dead. They might claim that they want to be dead but then they're just lying.
Besides, how many people have you actually met who were molested as a child? Might be that they think life is fucking awesome and are happy that they're alive. Seriously fed up with insensitive, irrational, posters who dare to make these claims about something they have no clue.
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On November 06 2011 22:58 MrSalamandra wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 22:48 Gnax wrote:On November 06 2011 22:35 MrSalamandra wrote:On November 06 2011 22:26 ayaz2810 wrote:
I'm more terrified that people in this thread are referring to liking child port like it's a harmless furry fetish. The exploitation of children for pornography or sexual pleasure in general is pretty much the worst thing someone can do short of killing another human being. In some cases, it could probably be considered worse. It amounts to psychological torture during the abuse, and for years after. I obviously can't speak for any other cultures or countries, but I think a zero tolerance approach here is a pretty good one.
Granted, I understand that the American justice system is fucked up. The prisons are overcrowded, and there are some ridiculous "crimes" out there, but being involved in CP in any way, shape, or form is unacceptable. Maybe I'm just biased because I have a 7 year old and a 5 year old daughter. Regardless, sterilize him and lock him up. Firstly, in this particular case, he contributed to the actual bad thing a negligible amount. No one is saying that sexually abusing children is alright. The punishment should fit the harm caused by the crime. How much harm is caused by this crime? Pretty much none. He saw pictures. That's it. Since you've mentioned killing a human being... how many people have seen pictures of murdered people? Essentially everyone. How many people have seen videos of someone being murdered? A lot of people. These are seen as relatively normal, and no one accuses you of contributing to the murder. Yet seeing a video or even pictures of a lesser (not trivializing it, but it is not as bad as murder) crime taking part is somehow so much worse? It isn't. Compairing CP to videos/pictures of murders is beyond retarded. Do you people who do this even believe in that argument yourselves? 1. Child rape is arguably a worse crime than murder. Some people who were raped as children would probably rather get killed before it happened. That's how damaged they are after it. 2. Even if you say murder is worse, comparing someone watching someone get murder and someone beating off to CP is two completely different things. And very few people actually enjoy watching someone get murdered. But they still do it because it's one of those things you think is horrible but can't stop watching. While someone watching CP is liking it. Completely different things. 1. Not particularly relevant. I'm extremely against child rape, the perpetrators should be punished very severely for that, as should the perpetrators of murder. Murder still deserves a harsher sentence though, even if only for strictly practical purposes. If the harshest sentence possible is given for rape, then the person has nothing to lose and a much higher possibility of getting away with it if they kill them as well. 2. I'm not really saying that the motivations for people watching a murder and someone watching child porn are the same, but the important thing is not the motivation, but the act done and the harm caused by it. In both cases, the harm caused is... ~none.
If the main reason to lock people up was the harm caused, then it would make more sense to remove prisons and give everyone fines. The main reason why people are locked up is because they are a danger to the society. And to me someone watching CP is potential future child molester/raper AKA danger to society.
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EPT
