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Perry Announces Flat Tax Plan - Page 10

Forum Index > General Forum
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PrideNeverDie
Profile Joined November 2010
United States319 Posts
October 26 2011 08:42 GMT
#181
it doesn't help the super rich because they don't pay >20% in taxes anyways
it helps the people who came from middle class homes and with hard work and sacrifice became working professionals

the super rich pay themselves $1 and bypass taxes with loopholes and stock options remember?
If you want it bad enough you will find a way; If you don't, you will find an excuse
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
October 27 2011 08:28 GMT
#182
On October 26 2011 17:42 PrideNeverDie wrote:
it doesn't help the super rich because they don't pay >20% in taxes anyways
it helps the people who came from middle class homes and with hard work and sacrifice became working professionals

the super rich pay themselves $1 and bypass taxes with loopholes and stock options remember?


Well, that depends on how Capital Gains is taxed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on their salary portion they will pay the 20% which is less than the 35% top tier right now, then because "we will renew incentives for entrepreneurial risk-taking and investment that creates jobs, inspires Americans to work hard and forms the foundation of a strong economy.", which means low or no Capital Gains tax, they will pay less than 20% overall on their income, which means, yes, Perry's proposal does help the super rich. Plus, "they don't pay >20% in taxes anyways" is the wrong outcome of the current tax code in the first place and the flat tax does not fix that.

The marginal tax rate is indeed lower for middle-classes but currently the confusing system gives a lot of credits and deductions, so if it does make a difference it will be a small one.
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
RibsNGibs
Profile Joined January 2011
64 Posts
October 27 2011 16:50 GMT
#183
I don't like it, though I personally would benefit. It's just a tax cut for the wealthy. Also, it fails to simplify doing your taxes because everybody is now just going to do their taxes both ways to see which saves them more money.

And elimination of capital gains tax? Are you frickin kidding me? Totally insane. I mean, I'm all for it personally and selfishly but wtf... A bit of $400 engine trouble drives my girlfriend to tears because she can't afford to pay that and her student loans and her rent and groceries, and you're giving ME more money?!

Incredible.


I really don't understand why they want to cut taxes for the rich so badly. You give more money to poor people, and they can buy what they need. Plus, Walmart's stock goes up, so I make more money, too, since all my money's invested. Win/win.
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-27 16:58:12
October 27 2011 16:54 GMT
#184
On October 28 2011 01:50 RibsNGibs wrote:
I don't like it, though I personally would benefit. It's just a tax cut for the wealthy. Also, it fails to simplify doing your taxes because everybody is now just going to do their taxes both ways to see which saves them more money.

And elimination of capital gains tax? Are you frickin kidding me? Totally insane. I mean, I'm all for it personally and selfishly but wtf... A bit of $400 engine trouble drives my girlfriend to tears because she can't afford to pay that and her student loans and her rent and groceries, and you're giving ME more money?!

Incredible.


I really don't understand why they want to cut taxes for the rich so badly. You give more money to poor people, and they can buy what they need. Plus, Walmart's stock goes up, so I make more money, too, since all my money's invested. Win/win.


Isn't it obvious? Greed. The rich want the money in their hands now so they can spend it, rather than give it to the poor, which the poor spend, so it makes its way into the hands of the rich, so the rich can spend it.

The money flows up towards them one way, or another. They're simply impatient and greedy.
Frigo
Profile Joined August 2009
Hungary1023 Posts
October 27 2011 18:18 GMT
#185
On October 26 2011 03:22 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2011 03:18 Frigo wrote:
On October 26 2011 02:30 Bibdy wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On October 26 2011 01:29 Equity213 wrote:
This whole issue is always and only tackled from a pragmatic standpoint. If a 50% tax rate is the most efficient rate on the laffer curve, then thats what people advocate.

Does no one ever stop to ask if it is MORALLY right to take half of peoples income? Its not money your taking, its time and labour. I personally find it reprehensible that morality is not only disregarded, but it is never even considered.

Should we have a 20% flat tax? The 9-9-9? Keep the progressive tax?

These questions have their root in the root in the public perception that the government OWNS you and can arbitrarily take what ever they want. They are loaded questions. The only reason the tax rate isnt 100% is because they know no one would work.

I might sound like a Ron Paul type, but Ron Paul fails this litmus test too.

Of course to agree with any of this you have to reject utilitarianism, which seems to be the default moral position for most people.


The problem with the Laffer Curve is a lot of people believe it's something like this

[image loading]

When in reality it's more like this

[image loading]

There are just too many variables, ripple effects and events in modern life to accurately predict revenues based on the taxation rate. The theory has been put to the test, and found lacking, numerous times. Like most things related to the economy, the validity of a theory depends more on faith, conviction and dumb luck, than science.

Not to mention maximizing tax revenue shouldn't be the goal of the government. Little things like fairness/morality/rights of the taxpayer, and the amount, efficiency and necessity of spending should be taken into account as well.


So raising taxes on the rich just to punish them more (even though it doesn't raise additional revenues) and "level the playing field" is good policy? That's news to me.


Have you read and understood my comment or just typed a straw man reply based on a few words you saw in it?

Obviously taxing people just because they can take a beating, was never fair to begin with.
http://www.fimfiction.net/user/Treasure_Chest
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
October 27 2011 18:43 GMT
#186
On October 26 2011 15:49 Fuhrmaaj wrote:
I can't speak for the US tax code, but typically you have a tiered system whereby the poorest people don't pay any tax (no or negative income); then you have some low percent for people scraping by and the tax rate ramps up as wealth increases. This means that people with higher income are still making more money than people with lower incomes, but paying significantly more taxes. This is justified because high income families will have their necessities covered and are able to make their payments, but people with lower incomes struggle to make ends meet.

Without doing extensive research into the US tax code and assuming it works like the Canadian one, it looks like it allows people with higher incomes to just opt to pay less taxes. If I'm facing a choice between paying 40% income tax and paying 20%, then I choose 20% every time. This won't be hard for most people to do because accountants will automatically file under the cheaper option.

The key concept to realize is that it allows you to choose the cheaper one. Higher rates of taxation are applied to higher incomes. Therefore, the benefit will be greater for people with higher incomes.

In my opinion, I would go the other way and apply greater taxes to wealthier people if you have debts to pay and you're still struggling from the recession.

it's pretty much this.

currently we have a capital gains tax of 15% on long term capital gains (for the highest tax bracket). people who make immense amount of money often have a salary of very little, so they they only have to pay 15% in long term capital gains (stock options ect) - any tax deductions they can get their hands on. oftentimes paying at little as 10-11% which is actually the lowest tax bracket we have for people making positive income.

now the 20% flat tax option eliminates capital gains tax (account to perry) which would allow the richest americans to opt for this, and pay 35 cents in taxes legally.


Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
October 27 2011 18:55 GMT
#187
On October 25 2011 12:05 memcpy wrote:
Show nested quote +
In essence he wants to allow taxpayers to choose between one of two systems: the current tax code, or a flat 20% tax


+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

This combined with the sim city jokes cracks me up so much.
May the BeSt man win.
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