On September 18 2011 01:21 Dreis1337 wrote: There's a difference between liking/supporting someone because of gender/race etc. and liking them because of a feature/trait etc. that developed because of their gender/race etc.
For example, supporting someone because they are "daring" and "brave" for being a female gamer is totally fine. Supporting them purely because they are a female gamer is sexism.
The first part is actually liking them because of a trait, not an external feature like gender, and is actually judging someone based on their merits. The second part is not judging someone on their own merit, it is judging them based on their gender, which is sexism.
There's a fine line between the two that is often very difficult to discern especially when it comes to other people and not yourself.
One of the reasons I call myself a Bisu fan is because he´s really handsome and is a good face to show that nerds arent ugly and I also call myself a Fantasy-fan because he looks just like the stereotypical nerd, which is pretty funny. I also mostly root for swedish players since guess what, Im swedish so I have a connection with them, who the fuck are you to judge who people are supposed to cheer for? If it´s sexist to cheer for Eve then it´s nationalistic and flat out racist to cheer for foreigners. Which it´s not.
On September 18 2011 01:19 KwarK wrote: Simply farming for hits imo. That misquote was entirely fictional, not the kind of thing that happens by accident.
He doesn't get paid per hit, so where does your opinion come from?
Just because he isn't getting paid per hit doesn't mean he isn't looking to get as many hits as possible.
On September 18 2011 00:43 IndoorSpawningPool wrote:
On September 18 2011 00:33 PooLarX wrote: Pathetic attempt at calling out a very note worthy figure in our community for nothing more than more traffic for their website.
DO NOT EVEN CLICK THOSE LINKS, DO NOT READ THE ARTICLE, DO NOT GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT.
Best advice in this thread ↑↑
Yea mods please put it on the top of the discussion.
I'll go ahead and spell it out again for all you double-digit post count people who don't bother to read an entire thread before spewing your bullshit. Geordie Tait does not work for Star City Games, he did not write this article for profit (probably made <$50 off of it and could have written anything else for that same amount of money), and is in no way attacking Day9 if you bothered to read literally two sentences beyond that particular quote.
It was a misquote, it was a mistake, get over it.
Stop downplaying it. Regardless of anything else, this misquote is pretty significant. It definitely puts day9 in a bad light and is completely false.
It's also indicative of TERRIBLE journalism. Two minutes of research shows that the quote is completely wrong... but apparently two minute is too much work.
Just think about what this will accomplish though, who is really being harmed here? People from team liquid can see the conspicuous block of white text placed above the post here that explain how day9 never said what the article claims he did, and there's plenty of discussion on the first page that illustrates this.
So the only thing you're going to accomplish is preventing the author from getting "views". Knowing that he won't make any money off of it, what does it matter? Are we somehow supporting his rant just by visiting the web page?
Also just because the author misquoted somebody doesn't automatically mean that the entire article should be discounted as terrible, even if it is an indicator. There may still be some very good points in that article. Besides there's a great facebook discussion that people can join in on.
On September 18 2011 00:01 DerNebel wrote: Saying the community overreacted out of sexism to the Gizmodo article about Jon Finkel is just plain dumb. He is the Jordan of MtG, beloved player and overall nice guy, and he was being humiliated by some girl who could not see past that he was good at some card-game. The community would have reacted the same if Jon Finkel was gay and the Gizmodo writer had been a dude.
The Day[9] quote is taken out of context, because he was actually mostly ridiculing his young self for being pissed off about this sort of thing. He might have said 'bitch' that time, but he has done that several times as obvious parody. One time he called his mother a bitch for crying out loud!
I'm not going to read the article in full, sue me. If the author gets paid per hit, which is likely, due to the sensationalist nature of the article, then I won't pay him off. Also, the two incidents quoted have obvious flaws insofar as they are used to argue for gamer sexism.
A woman is allowed to find MtG off-putting in a man. She is also allowed to post about how off-putting she finds this on a blog, and while I agree the tone of her article was utterly obnoxious it is not a valid excuse for the hordes of "dumb bitch, how dare she dislike Jon Finkel" posts all on the internet. That's sexism in action and if you say anything like "well she deserved it" then you're just victim-blaming. What next, "well she deserved to be raped with that shirt and saying those mean things" ?
So she has the right to dislike someone because he plays a card game, but other people don't have the right to dislike her for treating him cruelly and humiliating him publicly? I think you have the wrong idea about rights. Freedom of speech does not mean that your position is exempt from ridicule.
And for the record, I also don't think you would talk this way if Finkel had been the woman and the blogger had been the man.
Meh, you don't know anything about me so cut out the "you're a hypocrite based on how I imagine you'll react" remarks.
And yes, people disliking her for having a 'shallow reason' of finding Finkel not a good match are definitely way off the deep end since it reveals an attitude that a woman does not have free choice in whom she dates. Obviously she shouldn't have named him, but that's not what all the sexists posts were about, those were concerned with the 'crime' of rejecting him.
Our society has brainwashed people to think that if a woman is mistreated for reasons that might even possibly be related to sexuality it is sexism, but if a man is mistreated it has to be truly and phenomenally egregious before sexism can possibly be applied.
The reality is, you're whitewashing her comments which is why I said what I did. Her comments about him were just as sexist as the comments people are making about her. A man is expected to behave a certain way in a romantic setting and if he does not conform it's okay to ridicule him. It's "rude" but it's "okay." Well I'm telling you now, that I see a two way street. I have no sympathy for her. She's hiding behind the banner of sexism when she herself is every bit as sexist.
Her crime wasn't rejecting him. Her crime was tormenting him in front of the world for not being everything she expected a man to be.
On September 18 2011 01:18 Craton wrote: You can love someone all you want, it doesn't make misquoting them to further your agenda permissible.
It wasn't an intentional misquote, he had thousands of quotes to pull from. Keep in mind this quote is not in print, it's something he heard from a daily and misremembered when he wrote the article a few days later. I can vouch that what you are describing is not something Geordie would do as a person, especially when the quote is so easily proven wrong, on a website read by many SC2 players.
Any person that wants any credibility in the writing world would double check a quote. Why else would he go after Day[9] of all people? Hits. Even if Day actually said that it wouldn't of been with a straight face or serious in the least. That guy loves everyone and that along with his experience and the daily bringing new people in is why he is awesome.
About the guy talking about SlayerS_Eve and how she shouldn't get that much attention. I don't think you can call that sexism, if anything it is favoritism and people think it is cool that there is actually a female on SlayerS. Hell, some people (mostly guys) love Nada just because of his body (I don't blame them). Just be happy that people in the community have a hardcore following and are getting recognized/blowing up.
I'm also going through a dick stage and I'm loving every minute of it KwarK! (hope someone gets that reference)
On September 18 2011 00:43 IndoorSpawningPool wrote:
On September 18 2011 00:33 PooLarX wrote: Pathetic attempt at calling out a very note worthy figure in our community for nothing more than more traffic for their website.
DO NOT EVEN CLICK THOSE LINKS, DO NOT READ THE ARTICLE, DO NOT GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT.
Best advice in this thread ↑↑
Yea mods please put it on the top of the discussion.
I'll go ahead and spell it out again for all you double-digit post count people who don't bother to read an entire thread before spewing your bullshit. Geordie Tait does not work for Star City Games, he did not write this article for profit (probably made <$50 off of it and could have written anything else for that same amount of money), and is in no way attacking Day9 if you bothered to read literally two sentences beyond that particular quote.
It was a misquote, it was a mistake, get over it.
Stop downplaying it. Regardless of anything else, this misquote is pretty significant. It definitely puts day9 in a bad light and is completely false.
It's also indicative of TERRIBLE journalism. Two minutes of research shows that the quote is completely wrong... but apparently two minute is too much work.
Just think about what this will accomplish though, who is really being harmed here? People from team liquid can see the conspicuous block of white text placed above the post here that explain how day9 never said what the article claims he did, and there's plenty of discussion on the first page that illustrates this.
So the only thing you're going to accomplish is preventing the author from getting "views". Knowing that he won't make any money off of it, what does it matter? Are we somehow supporting his rant just by visiting the web page?
Also just because the author misquoted somebody doesn't automatically mean that the entire article should be discounted as terrible, even if it is an indicator. There may still be some very good points in that article. Besides there's a great facebook discussion that people can join in on.
Exactly. Geordie is a smart guy, he knows that probably ~50% of the people who read his article also play SC2 and a mistake like that is going to get pointed out sooner or later. There is just no way a quote like that was intentionally misquoted, whether you guys believe me or not. He's been a Magic writer on-and-off for like 8 years, he doesn't need drama like this to get people to read. This only hurts his reputation.
No such thing as sexism in gaming culture as far as I'm aware of. Female players however tend to gain more attention than they should because they're rare and that's about it. It's like finding a shiny in pokemon. They're not necessarily better but the fact that they're rare and good looking make people like them more.
I think skill is still the real factor when it comes to player rating. Nobody really cares how good looking you are if you suck as a player. If you're a girl, pretty AND good at SC2 people will love you just like a shiny with good IVs.
On September 18 2011 01:31 Demonace34 wrote: I'm also going through a dick stage and I'm loving every minute of it KwarK! (hope someone gets that reference)
To clarify, I don't like dicks sexually. It's just dick is my friendly insult of choice right now. My lips enjoy the shape of it as it rolls off the tongue.
On September 18 2011 01:31 Demonace34 wrote: I'm also going through a dick stage and I'm loving every minute of it KwarK! (hope someone gets that reference)
To clarify, I don't like dicks sexually. It's just dick is my friendly insult of choice right now. My lips enjoy the shape of it as it rolls off the tongue.
Oh you are digging yourself deeper and I just like how hard it is to cum up with the right insults. Any suggestions?
Disclaimer: I do like the vagina and not the dick. (This actually is probably proving my insecurities and reminds me of this video)
Got sidetracked. On topic, I think that this guy lost all credibility when he misquoted one of the most cherished members of this community. I don't think someone could of made an honest misquote mistake that bad.
If the person Sean was talking about was a male partner would they be making all this fuss if he called him a prick for saying g.g.?
It's just another person who can't tell the difference between an individual disliking an individual, and an individual disliking everyone the other person can be associated with
Lets call it this way, if eSports would be a man, he would have some psychological issues with women. For some reason he would be a creepy fucked up dude. Makes me sad, since I only made positive experiences with women in my life.
On September 18 2011 01:44 probob wrote: Lets call it this way, if eSports would be a man, he would have some psychological issues with women. For some reason he would be a creepy fucked up dude. Makes me sad, since I only made positive experiences with women in my life.
I think you are confusing Esports and the internet as a whole. People can get away with anything on the internet so they say shit to piss other people off. I doubt it is isolated to Esports.
There's no way to take an article seriously after he accuses Day9 of being sexist, takes his quote wrong, and takes the quote out of context.
If a female gamer came onto the SC2 scene and was competitive with other male progamers, she would be accepted by the community. The problem is that there are no women who can compete with men.
On September 18 2011 00:01 lorkac wrote: The gaming culture is centralized in already highly misogynistic societies, the US and Europe. How can't there be sexism in gaming? Add to that the hypermasculine sports aura wherein we enjoy feminizing weakness such as calling the opposing players "our bitch" as well as determining cowardice as being "pussies" we end up with a culture that glorifies the masculine and attacks what we conceive to be feminine ideals.
Esports is very very misogynistic.
there are very clear, documented gender differences in how the brain works to process information, and the size of different parts of the brain. It has been since the beginning of time since women and men are considered inherently different. I used to have trouble with my female friends, understanding their motivation, when they do things most people I know that are male would never do, or do like I would under the same circumstances. There's even been books written on the subject, the whole mars/venus thing.
I know you want equality, but does that mean we all have to be some genderless homogenized mass?
And how can you say e-sports is misogynistic? People heavily into video games tend to go over the top to treat females well.
Also, apparently calling people bitch and pussy attacks feminine ideals, by your statement. what? you seem like the sexist one here.
On September 18 2011 01:46 Papulatus wrote: There's no way to take an article seriously after he accuses Day9 of being sexist, takes his quote wrong, and takes the quote out of context.
If a female gamer came onto the SC2 scene and was competitive with other male progamers, she would be accepted by the community. The problem is that there are no women who can compete with men.
well, while there has been study done that shows that automated functioning of reaction male vs female is in favor of male, as females consistently have slightly longer reaction delay time, females can multitask better than males... so to say they can't compete is wrong. they just need to hone their advantages to make up for their lack, same as males.
Wow, that's a really terrible misquote. And that's literally the whole point of his article. That's bad enough to discount the entire article imo.
How do I know the other images and quotes are accurate? I don't.
It's even worse than that, because he arrives at his point by actually targeting specific people. It's really a terrible, mean article. I personally hate the way women are treated in gamer culture with all these assholes trying to funny with "pics plz a/s/l lolollol" but this article is just bullshit.
On September 18 2011 01:21 Dreis1337 wrote: There's a difference between liking/supporting someone because of gender/race etc. and liking them because of a feature/trait etc. that developed because of their gender/race etc.
For example, supporting someone because they are "daring" and "brave" for being a female gamer is totally fine. Supporting them purely because they are a female gamer is sexism.
The first part is actually liking them because of a trait, not an external feature like gender, and is actually judging someone based on their merits. The second part is not judging someone on their own merit, it is judging them based on their gender, which is sexism.
There's a fine line between the two that is often very difficult to discern especially when it comes to other people and not yourself.
One of the reasons I call myself a Bisu fan is because he´s really handsome and is a good face to show that nerds arent ugly and I also call myself a Fantasy-fan because he looks just like the stereotypical nerd, which is pretty funny. I also mostly root for swedish players since guess what, Im swedish so I have a connection with them, who the fuck are you to judge who people are supposed to cheer for? If it´s sexist to cheer for Eve then it´s nationalistic and flat out racist to cheer for foreigners. Which it´s not.
Well it depends on what "support" is (and yes I didn't include anything about that). Support as in "gogo ....... " is virtually meaningless. Support as in ".... is the best player ever" despite all reason and proof is different.
The first one is fine, because yea, it doesn't do anything to obstruct reason or logic. The second one isn't fine (in my opinion) because it does, and yes that is (potentially) sexist/racist/nationalistic/whatever (it doesn't matter what it is, it's bad, even if your reasons are totally "innocent"). The first one isn't so much, because you aren't passing judgement (to do with ability, because that's what we're dealing with) on a person (which is inherent in discrimination), despite supporting them.
Whether or not you think that's bad is up to you, I never said people are supposed to cheer for anyone.
The main point I was trying to make is that it isn't sexist to like someone because of actual traits and judging them based on their merit. If I'd apply this to what you say, then I would argue that many cheer for foreigners because they are the underdog.
I understand that many people support people who are "connected" to them and that's understandable, but if that prevents you from using reason and logic, then I don't care what you have to say, it's a bad thing. Liking someone because of a "connection" or that you identify with them is a reason, though. In my view it's a little bit shallow, but since there isn't really much of a reason to support anyone, who cares. It's verging on an "ism" but I'm not sure if it's totally there yet.
Otherwise I still think it is racist/nationalistic/sexist to like someone for the pure reason that they are of that race/nationality/sex, but if it's the first type of support I talked about, it's so meaningless that I don't really see why people would care (because you aren't acting on it). We are an emphathetic society that still has a lot of room to develop and these are just aspects of that.
I never said anyone is supposed to do this or that, just using an argument as to why things are sexist/racist etc. to explain something. If you don't agree, fine, but explain why :D Maybe those words are very negative to you (which I think they should be) and thus you can't agree, but you probably aren't perfect, so who knows (I'm guilty of it too)?
The real issue is people mistake the words we use for older and (to us) outdated meanings behind the word. when i say for example "what a bitch" when im getting cheesed by a 6 pool to myself it has absolutely nothing to do with anyone of the female gender. the connotation and meaning of the word has changed over time and i think some people (namely idiots that write articles like this) need to learn the differences in culture.
EPT
