EPTIt's not okay to insult at all, doesn't matter who does that or who is insulted.
Sexism in gaming culture - Page 30
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Maand
326 Posts
It's not okay to insult at all, doesn't matter who does that or who is insulted. | ||
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
On September 18 2011 16:41 lorkac wrote: I find it interesting that despite being given direct evidence of misogyny happening currently in highly public, highly broadcasted moments in starcraft2 (not even bringing supposedly lower brow CoD folks that are accused by people on this thread) that there are still folks who like to pretend that there isn't a problem of misogyny in esports in general. Day 9, Mr.Bitters, Husky, etc... Have all said multiple times the phrase "blew me away" or "I was blown away" and other iterations of the phrase. Not once in any of the mlg or dreamhack games did DJwheat or Apollo or any other co caster turn to them and asked them to talk about blowjobs. Why? Because they weren't female. It happens to a woman in front a giant crowd of men, and when it's pointed people get upset. And this is just sc2. What about those other games with immature jocks playing them (supposedly), those madden or call of duty or halo guys. Do you believe they aren't at least as "good" as sc2 fans? Evidence exists that the esports establishment both belittle and alienate women. Grow a pair and stop pretending it doesn't happen. Or maybe DJwheat or Apollo just are alot more professional than that one particular guy, because I thought he was doing everything unprofesionally at Valencia. Not just because he made some 'sexist' comments to that women. | ||
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Bubble-T
Australia105 Posts
On September 18 2011 11:06 deek wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W4tMRveozY&t=20m00s 20 minutes in close enough id say "it is a formal sign of resignation and respect... you young bitch!" now you can focus on the article at hand rather than debate on one single quote Can we please get a mod to edit the top of the page to say that it's from this video? | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
On September 18 2011 18:51 lorkac wrote: Trying to be more respectful of women should not *just* be a feminist issue. The reason these phrases are uttered colloquially is because we as a society accept that it's okay to use anti-women terms as "normal" "everyday" "common" language. That shouldn't be okay. If I'm playing a team game and some bronze player started building 3 engineering bays and not making scvs, I wouldn't type out "Stop being like a polish immigrant and get your shit together!" because that's an offensive thing to say. However, if instead I said "Stop bitching around and get your shit together!" no one would feel as if what I said was out of place. Why? Because it's colloquial to use anti-female terms and no one questions your word choice of using anti-women phrases to describe things you dislike. Well clearly we should be more respectful, but there are a lot of things that should be done that simply aren't realistic. To be honest, I never really associated the term 'bitch' with women at all, but this issue is pretty much the same thing as saying "that's gay" to describe distaste with something. Is it wrong? Yes. But these terms have become so strongly mainstreamed in gaming culture--and youth culture--that it is really difficult to seriously consider this as a problem. This is becoming a lot like that whole Destiny language debate haha. | ||
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On September 18 2011 19:44 Ju!cy wrote: I don't want to read so many replies since i don't care but is it ok for females to insult males? Nvm i won't check this thread it rly leads to nowhere at all. It's actually okay for men and women to insult each other so long as masculinity/femininity is not what is insulted. So if a guy calls a girl fat And a girl calls a guy stupid Neither one of them is being sexist If a guy calls a girl whore And a girl calls the guy a bitch They're both being sexist and misogynistic. Not because "whore" and "bitch" are stronger insults than "fat" and "stupid" But because "whore" and "bitch" are inherently gendered in their meaning and understanding so when you call a girl a whore, you specifically mean a female who does what you say for money and when you call the guy a bitch you specifically mean that he is less male than he should be because he's too female. | ||
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Ju!cy
Austria82 Posts
On September 18 2011 19:49 Maand wrote: Ju!cy why would it be? It's not okay to insult at all, doesn't matter who does that or who is insulted. Then don't call it sexism but differencies. I hate gendermainstreming and i hate activists my opinion is that everybody should be accepted the same way and there is no need for any activistic wake-up call or similar stuff which will just push everybody back in a corner and make males think they need to hold themselves back or that they are saying wrong stuff or they need to surpress their true character. My girlfriend isn't offended at all when I call her bitch and I'm not offended when she hits me back with cocksucker during latenight-engagements in bed. I will insult any girl that offends me and I will insult any guy that offends me (should I care, at least, what i do not most of the times). | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On September 18 2011 19:53 KimJongChill wrote: Well clearly we should be more respectful, but there are a lot of things that should be done that simply aren't realistic. To be honest, I never really associated the term 'bitch' with women at all, but this issue is pretty much the same thing as saying "that's gay" to describe distaste with something. Is it wrong? Yes. But these terms have become so strongly mainstreamed in gaming culture--and youth culture--that it is really difficult to seriously consider this as a problem. This is becoming a lot like that whole Destiny language debate haha. We phase terms in and out all the time. "nigger" for blacks and "sea niggers" for filipinos are no longer used colloquially. Ruskie in no longer a common term in the US. However we still use the term gyp to mean someone who cheats you even though its a slur towards gypsies. And this is nothing at all like the Destiny debate. The discussion is not "should we use curse words" because it's perfectly okay to use curse words. It's about respect. If I had a black friend who failed an exam, I wouldn't say to him "stop being such a polack!" in order to call him stupid. I wouldn't say to him "stop being such a broke ass nigger!" in order to call him unmotivated. I would say to him "Stop acting so stupid, you know you have to pass your damn exams!" Why? Because I wouldn't want to normalize a way of thinking where we think of faults and flaws based on racist notions. But just like I wouldn't call a friend of mine that has sex with a lot of freshman a "catholic priest" to insinuate he likes having sex with people younger than him (not necessarily a child) I also don't want to tell someone that he is weak by calling him a pussy, or call someone bad by calling him a bitch. We're still allowed to insult people. But we must simply be aware of who it is we're insulting when we say what we say. Calling someone a cocksucker might *feel* like you're making fun of the person you're talking to--but you're also at the same time suggesting that all people who partake in sucking cock are as low and despicable as this person you are calling a cocksucker. You are also suggesting that when you hate/are angry/are annoyed/etc... by someone to the point where you want to just yell at them and tell them to leave, that when you hate someone that much, that you think of them in the same way you think about anyone and everyone who sucks cock (or whichever) In essence, "that guy is such a bitch!" actually translates to "I hate that guy so much that I am willing to say that he is like a woman, because I hate him that much he must be exactly like a woman!" We can do better. We can be so much better as a society. | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:05 Ju!cy wrote: Then don't call it sexism but differencies. I hate gendermainstreming and i hate activists my opinion is that everybody should be accepted the same way and there is no need for any activistic wake-up call or similar stuff which will just push everybody back in a corner and make males think they need to hold themselves back or that they are saying wrong stuff or they need to surpress their true character. My girlfriend isn't offended at all when I call her bitch and I'm not offended when she hits me back with cocksucker during latenight-engagements in bed. I will insult any girl that offends me and I will insult any guy that offends me (should I care, at least, what i do not most of the times). Both your insults are calling each other feminine. You insult her by calling her a bitch (a female) she insults you by saying you suck cock (gay/female) Don't you think it's weird that you can call her female, and it's an insult But if she shot back and said "You're so manly!" that it's a compliment. | ||
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wordd
Australia190 Posts
On September 17 2011 23:58 barth wrote: He did not. Well... It did lose any credibility it could have had in my eyes because of it and I'm sure I'm not alone. geez i really dislike day9, no-one gives a fuck about one of his first kisses. | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:17 lorkac wrote: Both your insults are calling each other feminine. You insult her by calling her a bitch (a female) she insults you by saying you suck cock (gay/female) Don't you think it's weird that you can call her female, and it's an insult But if she shot back and said "You're so manly!" that it's a compliment. You make it sound like the problems for girls who tries to get into the gaming community are purely etymoligal. Why different words are used in a different way has nothing, or atleast almost nothing to do with it. Bitch is also referring to a dog, so there's also that. | ||
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Ju!cy
Austria82 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:17 lorkac wrote: Both your insults are calling each other feminine. You insult her by calling her a bitch (a female) she insults you by saying you suck cock (gay/female) Don't you think it's weird that you can call her female, and it's an insult But if she shot back and said "You're so manly!" that it's a compliment. What has a male gay got to do with the phrase female? May I ask you if you are a homophobic? Is your opinion that gay people resemble females? What the fuck is wrong with you! | ||
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Xaddy
Sweden41 Posts
I'd like to touch on the day9-thing. "Day9 is straight up probably the least sexist or racist person I've ever met in my life" is on the first page of responses. I'm sure that is one of the reasons the author chose to quote day9 saying something gendered in a non-gendered context. His point being; Even the most normal-sounding and non-derogatory person can be extremely hostile and unwittingly carry a baggage of antiquated and unfair values, because it's in our culture. Additionally, even if the author's point is far larger than just "gendered insluts are bad", it seems to be what teamliquid.net have read. To all you people thinking (and saying); 'no, gendered insluts are fine, it's no worse than other insults and women are over-sensitive'. You're wrong. For the sake of argument you might have the most gender-neutral intentions in the world (and you don't, don't for one second think you that). But when you say the word "bitch" (yes, it's gender-coded, no, it's not gender-neutral) in any context you are placing, at least part, blame on the female gender. Even if that person didn't take offense from it, you're still doing the biggest harm. You're socializing unfair norms, both to yourself, the person you're directing it to and to anyone in ear-shot. If you don't know the meaning of socializing, look it up before you answer. Additionally, the sentiment that someone be "over-sensitive" for not taking an insult is just plain stupid. An insult is as insulting as the person receiving it feels it to be. You can't hit someone and tell them to suck it up, it's just stupid. | ||
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aTo
Austria588 Posts
there are enough things girls would NEVER EVER like to be treat as equal as guys... holy shit if u talk about gender mainstream also talk about the physical and phsychic treatment there are diffrences between the genders physical AND phsychics and if u tell the whole female world that they have to join the army too - u think its ok for them cause they want to be equaled to man? you think girls never said to guys "u motherfucking nerd" - just for fun? you're so insular man... | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On September 18 2011 19:52 Bubble-T wrote: Can we please get a mod to edit the top of the page to say that it's from this video? It's still a dishonest use of the quote. The quote was Day9 telling a story about how into BW he was in highschool and used the term "...you young bitch" to make a point. The article makes it look as if Day9 actually said that, which technically he did, just as someone reading a book loud would have actually have uttered the words spoken by the characters. It's still a shitty and errorous way to quote someone. edit: sorry, didn't mean to respond to your post really, more in your general direction. Editing to message would indeed be wise. | ||
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Xaddy
Sweden41 Posts
On September 18 2011 21:27 aTo wrote: stop your gender mainstream shit there are enough things girls would NEVER EVER like to be treat as equal as guys... holy shit if u talk about gender mainstream also talk about the physical and phsychic treatment there are diffrences between the genders physical AND phsychics and if u tell the whole female world that they have to join the army too - u think its ok for them cause they want to be equaled to man? you think girls never said to guys "u motherfucking nerd" - just for fun? you're so insular man... What does "gender mainstream shit" mean? | ||
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:15 lorkac wrote: We phase terms in and out all the time. "nigger" for blacks and "sea niggers" for filipinos are no longer used colloquially. Ruskie in no longer a common term in the US. However we still use the term gyp to mean someone who cheats you even though its a slur towards gypsies. And this is nothing at all like the Destiny debate. The discussion is not "should we use curse words" because it's perfectly okay to use curse words. It's about respect. If I had a black friend who failed an exam, I wouldn't say to him "stop being such a polack!" in order to call him stupid. I wouldn't say to him "stop being such a broke ass nigger!" in order to call him unmotivated. I would say to him "Stop acting so stupid, you know you have to pass your damn exams!" Why? Because I wouldn't want to normalize a way of thinking where we think of faults and flaws based on racist notions. But just like I wouldn't call a friend of mine that has sex with a lot of freshman a "catholic priest" to insinuate he likes having sex with people younger than him (not necessarily a child) I also don't want to tell someone that he is weak by calling him a pussy, or call someone bad by calling him a bitch. We're still allowed to insult people. But we must simply be aware of who it is we're insulting when we say what we say. Calling someone a cocksucker might *feel* like you're making fun of the person you're talking to--but you're also at the same time suggesting that all people who partake in sucking cock are as low and despicable as this person you are calling a cocksucker. You are also suggesting that when you hate/are angry/are annoyed/etc... by someone to the point where you want to just yell at them and tell them to leave, that when you hate someone that much, that you think of them in the same way you think about anyone and everyone who sucks cock (or whichever) In essence, "that guy is such a bitch!" actually translates to "I hate that guy so much that I am willing to say that he is like a woman, because I hate him that much he must be exactly like a woman!" We can do better. We can be so much better as a society. You really need to understand the difference between an insult in jest and an actually meant insult in hate or annoyance. | ||
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On September 18 2011 19:52 Bubble-T wrote: Can we please get a mod to edit the top of the page to say that it's from this video? So well he clearly did say it ~~ Maybe the mod note should be removed. | ||
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aTo
Austria588 Posts
if u tell me that "you young bitch" is offensive to the female world... you got no idea what is gender mainstream about i think this issue is too big for your heads to understand what its realy about MAN THERE ARE MUCH MORE OFFENSIVE THINGS OMG its not about sayin "you young bitch" on a youtube video guys... there are countrys where woman are not allowed to show their faces or even leave their house... THATS what its about guys.. not motherfuckin phrases on a youtube video €: (srry for bad english ^^) | ||
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1hpBuiltForLove
Canada89 Posts
I was called sexist my whole life cause I was too shy to talk to girls. | ||
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