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i refuse to listen to people against sexism who have any sexist undertones in their arguments whatsoever. people who fight for a cause that revolves around a higher moral ground and yet portray hypocrisy of any kind are basically impossible for me to listen to. in the case of feminists, many appear to be irrationally sexist against men and often times appear that if women are not treated like porcelain dolls, they will wilt, and that it's ok for men to be subject to the same sexism they fight against for women lol.
the article is hugely tl;dr for me if this thread has already proven the author didn't do their homework, but your other link is actually pretty amusing to me. regarding the general topic though, yea there's huge sexism in games and as far as girls and their skill with games, i guess to some degree i'm sexist as well. some cultures just do not motivate their communities to excel at certain things. i don't think Americans are good at soccer, and i don't think women are any good at video games... mainly because there's not a huge push from either to be good. maybe most people don't think being a female has its own culture but both genders do.
i'm not sexist in the sense that i play with a girl and harass her the entire game like some kind of pig, but i do have low expectations for their skill. my current gf is actually the only girl who is ANY good at video games and has ANY interest in it. she owns me in tf2, she was a fan of bw before i ever played sc2 (got her to watch MLG raleigh by telling her nada and boxer were in the US playing lol), etc. and that's a slightly veiled brag because it's awesome to me, i don't know any girl who likes video games hardcore like that. the only one i've met in 10ish years of being a hardcore gamer.
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On September 18 2011 07:52 Camail wrote:
Wow. I actually wanted to post in this thread, maybe even something intelligent. It would have involved discussion about the nature of opinion and other things like that...but wow. I am not sexist, my friends are not sexist, and anyone who is sexist can't really blame games for that, some people need to grow out of this phase of ignorance towards our culture as soon as possible.
Trouble is, trolls know they will get the replies they want by calling us all racist/sexist and other things we aren't.
It's easy attention
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On September 18 2011 07:51 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 07:50 Chargelot wrote:On September 18 2011 07:36 KurtistheTurtle wrote:On September 18 2011 07:32 Chargelot wrote:On September 18 2011 07:24 KurtistheTurtle wrote:On September 18 2011 07:17 Chargelot wrote:On September 18 2011 07:11 KurtistheTurtle wrote:
1) This article didn't actually denigrate day9, although it misquoted a paraphrased sentiment of his. The problem is, that many twists can turn anything into anything. Misquoting a paraphrased sentiment is roughly the equivalent of combining random words into a completely incoherent sentence. Sentiment: I believe the holocaust was a grave error in judgement by the Nazis. They should have assumed genocide would piss off a lot of people.
Paraphrased sentiment: Nazis were stupid.
Misquoted paraphrased sentiment: Nazis weren't stupid. You see how quickly that went awry, right? we have diff definitions, misquote = taken out of context, paraphrased sentiment = day9 mad at this girl for poking fun at him but knew what it was and related in charming little story agreed on your analysis of that. but i agree with what this article says, and because of that i believe that in this specific case (this article i agree with) in this specific context (driving in readers from all major gaming areas on the internet--a realm of immense volume where the only way to get headlines is to at least appear sensational) is completely justifiable and ethical Misquote noun /misˈkwōt/ A passage or remark quoted inaccurately inaccurate adjective /ɪnˈæ.kjʊ.ɹət/Not accurate; incorrect Incorrect adjective /ˌɪnkəˈɹɛkt/- Not correct; erroneous or wrong.
- Faulty or defective.
- Inappropriate or improper.
It isn't a misquote if it is taken out of context. It's a quote taken out of context. This, however, had a completely incorrect quote, to which even the sentiment was completely wrong. im not contesting your accuracy or logic, i was defining my definitions. just want to communicate how i feel about this because on this issue i believe its a voice not often heard and any civil debate either strengthens existing beliefs or gets rid of flawed ones To do list: Buy a dictionary. Get an education. Language exists for a reason. You simply can't redefine words to suit your own intentions. I'm seriously glad that complete and total incorrectness is not a voice which is often heard. "misquote" has a set definition. The word is accounted for. You can pick one of the other 1,000,000 words, or you can invent your own, but you don't get to redefine already existing ones. Why do you keep attacking him? He already said, and I quote: "You're totally right. I was wrong and want to apologize to everyone in this thread for derailing it"
This is his first post since the guy in question acknowledged he was wrong. What makes you so sure that your quoted guy wasn't busy writing his comment and thus didn't see that the discussion had ended? Stop assuming the worst about people all the time.
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On September 17 2011 23:56 Gingerninja wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Youtube clip about 2.30 - 3.30 doesn't say that at all. So you know. my dissertation is on this subject. sloppy shitty sensationalist journalism that's all about causing crap than telling the truth, keep feeding me evidence you hacks!
Hve to agree with you. This is lame sensationalism...
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On September 18 2011 07:49 Giant Squid Thing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 07:46 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:45 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:43 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:40 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:37 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:35 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:33 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:30 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:29 KurtistheTurtle wrote:
[quote]
thats great. im glad you have fun with it, im glad they do. i like the fact you have a positive experience from this. but, i would like to point out, this is your personal experience. in mine, the community is actually really sexist. i belong to a video game club on campus where i cant believe some of the shit they say when female members arent around. this article has identified and contextualized a problem which exists and warrants exposure.
you can hate my idea, you can think it an utter waste of time, but dont hate people
So women need special treatment, and the presence of a woman should mean EVERYBODY ELSE has to adjust their behaviour? sounds like preferential treatment based on gender. Get out lol. He didn't say anything of the sort. He's saying people should be less sexist in general, not put on a non-sexist face when girls are around. But he's misrepresenting the group he's talking about. These people aren't being sexist. I'm sorry, but you're being allowed waaay too much wiggle room in these discussions, people have even stopped arguing with you about whether or not they are sexist now, whilst trying to deal with the other nonsense people keep bringing up to bash normal people. How exactly are they not being sexist, saying horrible things about female gamers behind their backs is fairly sexist no matter how much you want it not to be. Take the word "female" out of your sentence. Oh guess what, that's exactly what people do in all walks of life all the time. You're misconstruing normal behaviours as sexist for your own gratification. Stop it. The point is they are saying horrible thing because they are female. That is why it is sexist. Also normal bitching like this is when you avoid saying in front of the person. In this case it's not doing it in front of the person or any other member of this group. Men can't win this discussion. Yes they could, very easily in fact. Stop saying horrible, sexist things would probably be the easiest way of going about it. Minority != community Minority != gender A man says something bad, he is bad NOT A man says something bad, Men are bad. It's like this when a woman gets cheated on "oh man all men are scum and cheaters" you hear it all the time.. this is the same thing, projecting.
When exactly did I say men as a whole are bad (apart from the last quote because you decided to pet all men into one group). My point is that there are a large section of gamers who are very sexist in an already very male dominated community and that this is a problem because it prevents outsiders coming in and growing the community. I'd hope you agree that growing the community is a good thing.
As far as gender not being a minority it isn't numerically but as far as power, influence rights it is. Also the whole cheating thing isn't a great comparison because people tend to say stupid shit they don't actually believe in situations like that.
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On September 18 2011 07:54 iLikeRain wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 07:51 Zocat wrote:On September 18 2011 07:50 Chargelot wrote:On September 18 2011 07:36 KurtistheTurtle wrote:On September 18 2011 07:32 Chargelot wrote:On September 18 2011 07:24 KurtistheTurtle wrote:On September 18 2011 07:17 Chargelot wrote:On September 18 2011 07:11 KurtistheTurtle wrote:
1) This article didn't actually denigrate day9, although it misquoted a paraphrased sentiment of his. The problem is, that many twists can turn anything into anything. Misquoting a paraphrased sentiment is roughly the equivalent of combining random words into a completely incoherent sentence. Sentiment: I believe the holocaust was a grave error in judgement by the Nazis. They should have assumed genocide would piss off a lot of people.
Paraphrased sentiment: Nazis were stupid.
Misquoted paraphrased sentiment: Nazis weren't stupid. You see how quickly that went awry, right? we have diff definitions, misquote = taken out of context, paraphrased sentiment = day9 mad at this girl for poking fun at him but knew what it was and related in charming little story agreed on your analysis of that. but i agree with what this article says, and because of that i believe that in this specific case (this article i agree with) in this specific context (driving in readers from all major gaming areas on the internet--a realm of immense volume where the only way to get headlines is to at least appear sensational) is completely justifiable and ethical Misquote noun /misˈkwōt/ A passage or remark quoted inaccurately inaccurate adjective /ɪnˈæ.kjʊ.ɹət/Not accurate; incorrect Incorrect adjective /ˌɪnkəˈɹɛkt/- Not correct; erroneous or wrong.
- Faulty or defective.
- Inappropriate or improper.
It isn't a misquote if it is taken out of context. It's a quote taken out of context. This, however, had a completely incorrect quote, to which even the sentiment was completely wrong. im not contesting your accuracy or logic, i was defining my definitions. just want to communicate how i feel about this because on this issue i believe its a voice not often heard and any civil debate either strengthens existing beliefs or gets rid of flawed ones To do list: Buy a dictionary. Get an education. Language exists for a reason. You simply can't redefine words to suit your own intentions. I'm seriously glad that complete and total incorrectness is not a voice which is often heard. "misquote" has a set definition. The word is accounted for. You can pick one of the other 1,000,000 words, or you can invent your own, but you don't get to redefine already existing ones. Why do you keep attacking him? He already said, and I quote: "You're totally right. I was wrong and want to apologize to everyone in this thread for derailing it" This is his first post since the guy in question acknowledged he was wrong. What makes you so sure that your quoted guy wasn't busy writing his comment and thus didn't see that the discussion had ended? Stop assuming the worst about people all the time.
Haha! Well played :D
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On September 18 2011 07:48 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 07:35 DoubleReed wrote:On September 18 2011 07:25 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:18 KurtistheTurtle wrote:On September 18 2011 07:08 Smackzilla wrote:On September 18 2011 00:26 Cel.erity wrote:
I'd just like to remind everyone that this is a very long article which has very little to do with Day9, and a lot to do with our gaming culture in general, and you can't invalidate the entire piece of work just based on one example of sloppy journalism. Guaranteed that if one person e-mailed the editor of SCG, that quote would get removed and Geordie would apologize for it, so stop making such a fuss. Sorry, accident or not, it is a big deal. The writer took a well-respected person from the e-sports community and held them up as an example of sexism in gaming by attributing a quote to Day9 that he never actually said. Its rotten "journalism" and the writer should apologize. no it didn't. it didn't denigrate him. it actually reccomended him. it took a sentiment of his paraphrased out of context to draw in more viewers. this isn't rotten journalism, this is a man using the highest skills of his craft to spread a message he believes worthwhile. i agree with him. please, read it again (or more likely the first time), and imagine you have a gf who fights for/with you over sc. imagine you were showing your mom this community in the raw. Idiot.... My wife plays sc2, and my mother plays (gold league lol) Both have not had a single negative experience out of the sc2 community, or at least no single negative experience because they are female. You're just trying to create issues that don't exist. This community is great, the only people who seem to bash it are the nobodies who don't care to put in any effort to get noticed, rather rely on sensationalising titles, being purposefully stupid, or taking their clothes off. Let's face it: because of teamliquid and things like that, sc2 is probably one of the nicest, most awesome communities out there. I'm not really speaking against other gaming communities because I don't have much experience outside sc2, but don't assume that other gaming communities are as awesome. But yes, THIS community is great. In regards to sexism, I think SC2 is about the same as any other community. One thing the article fails to address is that, while sexism is surely rampant in gaming, most of it is beneficial to women. I have not yet been in a gaming community where women weren't placed on pedestals and given privileges they have not earned; likewise, in every community there are a lot of guys who are hateful towards women. However, that hate is usually caused by the unfair attention that women receive in the community. Being female is polarizing. It's evident in every TL thread relating to women; half of the thread is blind fanboyism/white knighting while the other half is sexist insults and "is she hot?". A lot of women are turned off by this, but frankly, a lot of women use it to their advantage to get attention and possibly even advance their careers. The article isn't wrong, but it's also not balanced because it doesn't discuss both sides.
This, there are 2 sides of the coin. There are benefits, then there are disadvantages. This sexist thing is blown out of proportion, just like how many feminists only focus on the disadvantages of women, but not the advantages.
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On September 18 2011 07:43 KurtistheTurtle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 07:39 Zocat wrote:On September 18 2011 07:25 KurtistheTurtle wrote:On September 18 2011 07:20 Chargelot wrote:On September 18 2011 07:18 KurtistheTurtle wrote:On September 18 2011 07:08 Smackzilla wrote:On September 18 2011 00:26 Cel.erity wrote:
I'd just like to remind everyone that this is a very long article which has very little to do with Day9, and a lot to do with our gaming culture in general, and you can't invalidate the entire piece of work just based on one example of sloppy journalism. Guaranteed that if one person e-mailed the editor of SCG, that quote would get removed and Geordie would apologize for it, so stop making such a fuss. Sorry, accident or not, it is a big deal. The writer took a well-respected person from the e-sports community and held them up as an example of sexism in gaming by attributing a quote to Day9 that he never actually said. Its rotten "journalism" and the writer should apologize. no it didn't. it didn't denigrate him. it actually reccomended him. it took a sentiment of his paraphrased out of context to draw in more viewers. this isn't rotten journalism, this is a man using the highest skills of his craft to spread a message he believes worthwhile. i agree with him. please, read it again (or more likely the first time), and imagine you have a gf who fights for/with you over sc. imagine you were showing your mom this community in the raw. ... So purposely misquoting someone for more viewers isn't crappy journalism? Give me a break. he didn't insult him. he used that quote out of context to get us to read the article, where he reccomended day9 but exposed latent beliefs we aren't aware of which can help us move forward as a community The problem is: It was no quote. End of discussion. There was no "misinterpretation of what he [day9] said". A quote is something what a person says - not what one thinks what a person meant. And making up a false statement and masking it as a quote is no "good journalism". Right of reply (sic?) is part of the law and exists for a reason. we have different viewpoints, i believe everything is more relative and interpretative. depends on context. i believe the rules exist for the reasons behind them, and that if the reasons are sated, rules are not always required. the law depends on global standards and rules which reflect moral generalizations of the time, it is not always correct and fair but is definitely best system thus far. so while it is a law, that doesnt mean i think its necessarily an absolute, and i think thats where we disagree
it doesnt matter what you believe or not. no one gives a fuck less if you believe in gravity or not, because its still there. this quote, IS NOT A QUOTE. Day9 NEVER said this. thsi is lying, it leads to a bad image of our community, it degrades one of(if not our most) respected members who is spearheading the esports movement along with others. no one gives a shit if you think rules can be broken, it is wrong to misquote someone and then try and use that as a basis for an argument. if the someone claimed president said 'were going to bomb that country and fuck em up" and all he said was he thought that their economics were bad, then that is totally fine with you? because its 'relative and interpretative'? you are missing the entire point of the main argument about Day9 in this thread. the main point is that this isnt a quote, it is not a paraphrase, it is LITERALLY falsified. that is the point that the posters are making. and that falsification of information is associating our community with something negative, and defacing esports. THAT is the problem.
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On September 18 2011 07:55 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 07:49 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:46 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:45 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:43 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:40 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:37 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:35 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:33 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:30 Giant Squid Thing wrote:
[quote]
So women need special treatment, and the presence of a woman should mean EVERYBODY ELSE has to adjust their behaviour? sounds like preferential treatment based on gender.
Get out lol.
He didn't say anything of the sort. He's saying people should be less sexist in general, not put on a non-sexist face when girls are around. But he's misrepresenting the group he's talking about. These people aren't being sexist. I'm sorry, but you're being allowed waaay too much wiggle room in these discussions, people have even stopped arguing with you about whether or not they are sexist now, whilst trying to deal with the other nonsense people keep bringing up to bash normal people. How exactly are they not being sexist, saying horrible things about female gamers behind their backs is fairly sexist no matter how much you want it not to be. Take the word "female" out of your sentence. Oh guess what, that's exactly what people do in all walks of life all the time. You're misconstruing normal behaviours as sexist for your own gratification. Stop it. The point is they are saying horrible thing because they are female. That is why it is sexist. Also normal bitching like this is when you avoid saying in front of the person. In this case it's not doing it in front of the person or any other member of this group. Men can't win this discussion. Yes they could, very easily in fact. Stop saying horrible, sexist things would probably be the easiest way of going about it. Minority != community Minority != gender A man says something bad, he is bad NOT A man says something bad, Men are bad. It's like this when a woman gets cheated on "oh man all men are scum and cheaters" you hear it all the time.. this is the same thing, projecting. When exactly did I say men as a whole are bad (apart from the last quote because you decided to pet all men into one group). My point is that there are a large section of gamers who are very sexist in an already very male dominated community and that this is a problem because it prevents outsiders coming in and growing the community. I'd hope you agree that growing the community is a good thing. As far as gender not being a minority it isn't numerically but as far as power, influence rights it is. Also the whole cheating thing isn't a great comparison because people tend to say stupid shit they don't actually believe in situations like that.
Define large group. Statistically I think it's a very small subset of people who you could genuinely call sexist in this community.
Hint: Saying bitch isn't sexist, calling a girl hot isn't sexist.
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On September 18 2011 07:51 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 07:50 Chargelot wrote:On September 18 2011 07:36 KurtistheTurtle wrote:On September 18 2011 07:32 Chargelot wrote:On September 18 2011 07:24 KurtistheTurtle wrote:On September 18 2011 07:17 Chargelot wrote:On September 18 2011 07:11 KurtistheTurtle wrote:
1) This article didn't actually denigrate day9, although it misquoted a paraphrased sentiment of his. The problem is, that many twists can turn anything into anything. Misquoting a paraphrased sentiment is roughly the equivalent of combining random words into a completely incoherent sentence. Sentiment: I believe the holocaust was a grave error in judgement by the Nazis. They should have assumed genocide would piss off a lot of people.
Paraphrased sentiment: Nazis were stupid.
Misquoted paraphrased sentiment: Nazis weren't stupid. You see how quickly that went awry, right? we have diff definitions, misquote = taken out of context, paraphrased sentiment = day9 mad at this girl for poking fun at him but knew what it was and related in charming little story agreed on your analysis of that. but i agree with what this article says, and because of that i believe that in this specific case (this article i agree with) in this specific context (driving in readers from all major gaming areas on the internet--a realm of immense volume where the only way to get headlines is to at least appear sensational) is completely justifiable and ethical Misquote noun /misˈkwōt/ A passage or remark quoted inaccurately inaccurate adjective /ɪnˈæ.kjʊ.ɹət/Not accurate; incorrect Incorrect adjective /ˌɪnkəˈɹɛkt/- Not correct; erroneous or wrong.
- Faulty or defective.
- Inappropriate or improper.
It isn't a misquote if it is taken out of context. It's a quote taken out of context. This, however, had a completely incorrect quote, to which even the sentiment was completely wrong. im not contesting your accuracy or logic, i was defining my definitions. just want to communicate how i feel about this because on this issue i believe its a voice not often heard and any civil debate either strengthens existing beliefs or gets rid of flawed ones To do list: Buy a dictionary. Get an education. Language exists for a reason. You simply can't redefine words to suit your own intentions. I'm seriously glad that complete and total incorrectness is not a voice which is often heard. "misquote" has a set definition. The word is accounted for. You can pick one of the other 1,000,000 words, or you can invent your own, but you don't get to redefine already existing ones. Why do you keep attacking him? He already said, and I quote: "You're totally right. I was wrong and want to apologize to everyone in this thread for derailing it"
I wanted to believe you were right.
Perhaps I'm blind, but I couldn't find that anywhere except in your quote tree. Either it was edited out, or it was edited in.
ps.
:D did you paraphrase?
Also: really didn't see it before I posted.
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On September 18 2011 07:55 GhostNova wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 23:56 Gingerninja wrote:+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4eUp1BtdtA Youtube clip about 2.30 - 3.30 doesn't say that at all. So you know. my dissertation is on this subject. sloppy shitty sensationalist journalism that's all about causing crap than telling the truth, keep feeding me evidence you hacks! Hve to agree with you. This is lame sensationalism...
Unfortunately, the M:TG community slobbered all over this in their middle-class white guilt. I hate it. Tait's girlfriend's twitter revealed her to be a hardline feminist. It's not hard to see where he adapted his position from.
There are actual disparities in communications between men and women in the gaming or hobbyist communities. The way to correct these gaps isn't to shame men whose awkward interactions are borne much more of ineptitude than malice.
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To all of the people out there saying the gaming community is sexist, here's a newsflash. Go anywhere, in any community, and there will always be sexist people. Universities, work, schools, online communities, sports, all have sexist people. So quit trying to make it like this is a big issue and the whole SC community is sexist.
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On September 18 2011 07:58 Giant Squid Thing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 07:55 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:49 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:46 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:45 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:43 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:40 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:37 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:35 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:33 imallinson wrote:
[quote]
He didn't say anything of the sort. He's saying people should be less sexist in general, not put on a non-sexist face when girls are around.
But he's misrepresenting the group he's talking about. These people aren't being sexist. I'm sorry, but you're being allowed waaay too much wiggle room in these discussions, people have even stopped arguing with you about whether or not they are sexist now, whilst trying to deal with the other nonsense people keep bringing up to bash normal people. How exactly are they not being sexist, saying horrible things about female gamers behind their backs is fairly sexist no matter how much you want it not to be. Take the word "female" out of your sentence. Oh guess what, that's exactly what people do in all walks of life all the time. You're misconstruing normal behaviours as sexist for your own gratification. Stop it. The point is they are saying horrible thing because they are female. That is why it is sexist. Also normal bitching like this is when you avoid saying in front of the person. In this case it's not doing it in front of the person or any other member of this group. Men can't win this discussion. Yes they could, very easily in fact. Stop saying horrible, sexist things would probably be the easiest way of going about it. Minority != community Minority != gender A man says something bad, he is bad NOT A man says something bad, Men are bad. It's like this when a woman gets cheated on "oh man all men are scum and cheaters" you hear it all the time.. this is the same thing, projecting. When exactly did I say men as a whole are bad (apart from the last quote because you decided to pet all men into one group). My point is that there are a large section of gamers who are very sexist in an already very male dominated community and that this is a problem because it prevents outsiders coming in and growing the community. I'd hope you agree that growing the community is a good thing. As far as gender not being a minority it isn't numerically but as far as power, influence rights it is. Also the whole cheating thing isn't a great comparison because people tend to say stupid shit they don't actually believe in situations like that. Define large group. Statistically I think it's a very small subset of people who you could genuinely call sexist in this community. Hint: Saying bitch isn't sexist, calling a girl hot isn't sexist.
Calling a girl hot can be sexist, it really depends on the context.
"Can she play SC2?"
"Who cares, she's hot!"
It's actually relatively sexist to call a girl hot behind her back in any context, because it objectifies the girl. It's just not -as- serious an infraction as most other things we consider sexist.
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On September 18 2011 07:59 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 07:51 Zocat wrote:On September 18 2011 07:50 Chargelot wrote:On September 18 2011 07:36 KurtistheTurtle wrote:On September 18 2011 07:32 Chargelot wrote:On September 18 2011 07:24 KurtistheTurtle wrote:On September 18 2011 07:17 Chargelot wrote:On September 18 2011 07:11 KurtistheTurtle wrote:
1) This article didn't actually denigrate day9, although it misquoted a paraphrased sentiment of his. The problem is, that many twists can turn anything into anything. Misquoting a paraphrased sentiment is roughly the equivalent of combining random words into a completely incoherent sentence. Sentiment: I believe the holocaust was a grave error in judgement by the Nazis. They should have assumed genocide would piss off a lot of people.
Paraphrased sentiment: Nazis were stupid.
Misquoted paraphrased sentiment: Nazis weren't stupid. You see how quickly that went awry, right? we have diff definitions, misquote = taken out of context, paraphrased sentiment = day9 mad at this girl for poking fun at him but knew what it was and related in charming little story agreed on your analysis of that. but i agree with what this article says, and because of that i believe that in this specific case (this article i agree with) in this specific context (driving in readers from all major gaming areas on the internet--a realm of immense volume where the only way to get headlines is to at least appear sensational) is completely justifiable and ethical Misquote noun /misˈkwōt/ A passage or remark quoted inaccurately inaccurate adjective /ɪnˈæ.kjʊ.ɹət/Not accurate; incorrect Incorrect adjective /ˌɪnkəˈɹɛkt/- Not correct; erroneous or wrong.
- Faulty or defective.
- Inappropriate or improper.
It isn't a misquote if it is taken out of context. It's a quote taken out of context. This, however, had a completely incorrect quote, to which even the sentiment was completely wrong. im not contesting your accuracy or logic, i was defining my definitions. just want to communicate how i feel about this because on this issue i believe its a voice not often heard and any civil debate either strengthens existing beliefs or gets rid of flawed ones To do list: Buy a dictionary. Get an education. Language exists for a reason. You simply can't redefine words to suit your own intentions. I'm seriously glad that complete and total incorrectness is not a voice which is often heard. "misquote" has a set definition. The word is accounted for. You can pick one of the other 1,000,000 words, or you can invent your own, but you don't get to redefine already existing ones. Why do you keep attacking him? He already said, and I quote: "You're totally right. I was wrong and want to apologize to everyone in this thread for derailing it" I wanted to believe you were right. Perhaps I'm blind, but I couldn't find that anywhere except in your quote tree. Either it was edited out, or it was edited in.
But his whole argument, concerning the Day9 quote, is evolving about it being ok to alter statements / make up quotes.
So I thought it's ok for all of us to make up the statement (and a quote) that he apologized and admitted his wrongdoings! I mean it serves our cause/argumentation, so according to him it's ok to do so!
(so no you didnt actually miss it  - sorry if it wasnt clear enough)
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On September 18 2011 00:08 Iyerbeth wrote:
The bigger issue regarding sexism in gaming culture can far better be seen in Live Report threads where there's either any woman playing, interviewing or presenting. Everyone seems to think they have the right to insult her, degrade her, judge her and point out everything she gets wrong where they wouldn't dream of doing that if someone like Day[9] made the same mistake. Calling someone a dumb bitch wouldn't offend many people even if it did happen though I think.
Slut, rape and the c word might be more offensive though.
just to say this, let me point out the people who REGULARLY get insulted on reddit whenever their name is brought up
Destiny
Idra
Incontrol
Husky
Maximus Black (people dont know he's maximus, just call him lagtv instead)
Total biscuit (haven't seen it since he stopped trying to respond as much though)
EVERY SINGLE TOURNAMENT HOST EVER (female or male)
ANY CASTER ANY TIME HE MAKES A MISTAKE (except artosis and day 9, and tasteless when with one of them)
The real source of sexism post modernist movements are those who bring it up and use it as a way to make a specific woman succeed, even if unqualified to do so. Same with all the "racial quotas" in business and school. It creates a topic about rascism.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On September 18 2011 07:58 Giant Squid Thing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 07:55 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:49 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:46 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:45 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:43 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:40 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:37 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:35 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:33 imallinson wrote:
[quote]
He didn't say anything of the sort. He's saying people should be less sexist in general, not put on a non-sexist face when girls are around.
But he's misrepresenting the group he's talking about. These people aren't being sexist. I'm sorry, but you're being allowed waaay too much wiggle room in these discussions, people have even stopped arguing with you about whether or not they are sexist now, whilst trying to deal with the other nonsense people keep bringing up to bash normal people. How exactly are they not being sexist, saying horrible things about female gamers behind their backs is fairly sexist no matter how much you want it not to be. Take the word "female" out of your sentence. Oh guess what, that's exactly what people do in all walks of life all the time. You're misconstruing normal behaviours as sexist for your own gratification. Stop it. The point is they are saying horrible thing because they are female. That is why it is sexist. Also normal bitching like this is when you avoid saying in front of the person. In this case it's not doing it in front of the person or any other member of this group. Men can't win this discussion. Yes they could, very easily in fact. Stop saying horrible, sexist things would probably be the easiest way of going about it. Minority != community Minority != gender A man says something bad, he is bad NOT A man says something bad, Men are bad. It's like this when a woman gets cheated on "oh man all men are scum and cheaters" you hear it all the time.. this is the same thing, projecting. When exactly did I say men as a whole are bad (apart from the last quote because you decided to pet all men into one group). My point is that there are a large section of gamers who are very sexist in an already very male dominated community and that this is a problem because it prevents outsiders coming in and growing the community. I'd hope you agree that growing the community is a good thing. As far as gender not being a minority it isn't numerically but as far as power, influence rights it is. Also the whole cheating thing isn't a great comparison because people tend to say stupid shit they don't actually believe in situations like that. Define large group. Statistically I think it's a very small subset of people who you could genuinely call sexist in this community. Hint: Saying bitch isn't sexist, calling a girl hot isn't sexist.
It may be small in numbers but it's a very noisy group who tends to be the first thing people see of the community. Bitch itself isn't sexist but it can be used in a sexist way. Calling someone hot isn't sexist, calling a girl, who you have never met or seen, hot just because she is a girl is sexist and really creepy.
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On September 18 2011 08:00 TechSC wrote:
To all of the people out there saying the gaming community is sexist, here's a newsflash. Go anywhere, in any community, and there will always be sexist people. Universities, work, schools, online communities, sports, all have sexist people. So quit trying to make it like this is a big issue and the whole SC community is sexist.
Some people just have a need to make a big deal out of something small. Like some politicians in Denmark demanding 50% female executives in big companys. I mean really... DEMAND 50% women? Pick the best ones, and if that means 100% women then so be it, but stop trying to make sexism a much bigger problem than it already is.
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On September 18 2011 07:55 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 07:49 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:46 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:45 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:43 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:40 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:37 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:35 Giant Squid Thing wrote:On September 18 2011 07:33 imallinson wrote:On September 18 2011 07:30 Giant Squid Thing wrote:
[quote]
So women need special treatment, and the presence of a woman should mean EVERYBODY ELSE has to adjust their behaviour? sounds like preferential treatment based on gender.
Get out lol.
He didn't say anything of the sort. He's saying people should be less sexist in general, not put on a non-sexist face when girls are around. But he's misrepresenting the group he's talking about. These people aren't being sexist. I'm sorry, but you're being allowed waaay too much wiggle room in these discussions, people have even stopped arguing with you about whether or not they are sexist now, whilst trying to deal with the other nonsense people keep bringing up to bash normal people. How exactly are they not being sexist, saying horrible things about female gamers behind their backs is fairly sexist no matter how much you want it not to be. Take the word "female" out of your sentence. Oh guess what, that's exactly what people do in all walks of life all the time. You're misconstruing normal behaviours as sexist for your own gratification. Stop it. The point is they are saying horrible thing because they are female. That is why it is sexist. Also normal bitching like this is when you avoid saying in front of the person. In this case it's not doing it in front of the person or any other member of this group. Men can't win this discussion. Yes they could, very easily in fact. Stop saying horrible, sexist things would probably be the easiest way of going about it. Minority != community Minority != gender A man says something bad, he is bad NOT A man says something bad, Men are bad. It's like this when a woman gets cheated on "oh man all men are scum and cheaters" you hear it all the time.. this is the same thing, projecting. When exactly did I say men as a whole are bad (apart from the last quote because you decided to pet all men into one group). My point is that there are a large section of gamers who are very sexist in an already very male dominated community and that this is a problem because it prevents outsiders coming in and growing the community. I'd hope you agree that growing the community is a good thing. As far as gender not being a minority it isn't numerically but as far as power, influence rights it is. Also the whole cheating thing isn't a great comparison because people tend to say stupid shit they don't actually believe in situations like that.
you can make that point about any community, whether is games, or cooking, or music. this article is dumb because it singles out gamers, specifically one of our most influential members(Day9). for example:
"My point is that there are a large section of athletes who are very sexist in an already very male dominated community and that this is a problem because it prevents outsiders coming in and growing the community. I'd hope you agree that growing the community is a good thing.
My point is that there are a large section of musicians who are very sexist in an already very male dominated community and that this is a problem because it prevents outsiders coming in and growing the community. I'd hope you agree that growing the community is a good thing.
My point is that there are a large section of chefs who are very sexist in an already very male dominated community and that this is a problem because it prevents outsiders coming in and growing the community. I'd hope you agree that growing the community is a good thing."
do you see my point?
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On September 18 2011 08:00 TechSC wrote:
To all of the people out there saying the gaming community is sexist, here's a newsflash. Go anywhere, in any community, and there will always be sexist people. Universities, work, schools, online communities, sports, all have sexist people. So quit trying to make it like this is a big issue and the whole SC community is sexist.
i agree
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I really get the feeling everybody here is, for lack of a better term, "butthurt." I felt it too, but got over it when I realized he didn't actually call day9 sexist. he implied for sensationalist traffic on the internet. This place doesn't have defined standards yet. Then he actually sends you back to the source and reccomends everything day9 stands for, exists, and puts it in context: this is how we came to be, how we are, this is what i think about it, and this is why its important not to think about it.
i want my bias up front: this article made me realize that i didnt have correct views between my gf's feelings and where sc2 fit into my life. i was being unfair to her, and realizing that, want to change everything to be better for everybody. i believe this article is--in relation to the issue--correct, accurate, and completely beneficial.
That one heading doesn't invalidate the entire article. It is vitally important to recognize and think about opposing viewpoints. I think this article is incredibly accurate and pertinent, and that actually thinking about it is beneficial to the community at large. Even if you don't agree with it, and even if you think its stupid.
i was on skype w a friend:
[4:35:52 PM] Elliot Allen: wow
[4:35:57 PM] friend: part 6 loses all credibility
[4:36:15 PM] me: because he bashes day9?
[4:36:23 PM] friend: yeah
[reading]
[4:39:09 PM] friend: nevermind
[4:39:20 PM] friend: part is 6 is the most relevant part of this whole entire tinhg
i agree
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EPT
