EPTCould a Technocracy be Better than Democracy? - Page 35
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tech information
105 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
When the price of gas grows, people will go to alternatives (anything from hydrogen power to horseback). Gas is always crucial to the economy, but the supply of oil itself isn't the issue, it's the supply that's the issue (understand? Meaning things oil reserves not being allowed to be drilled in to, oil reserves not being found, political instability, etc). I mean obviously the economy needs access to fossil fuels, but fossil fuels are very abundant. It's policy that limits access to cheap fuel, not the natural supply of it. But the economy will grow regardless of fossil fuel, and actually, it's a sign of an extremely strong and robust economy when gas prices rise (like they did under the Bush administration in mid-2000s and the 1980's under Reagan). The relationship between fossil fuels and the economy is extremely complex, it's not as simple as "cheap oil = growing economy" | ||
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tech information
105 Posts
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
![[image loading]](http://troll.me/images/y-u-no-guy/erryone-y-u-no-believe-me.jpg) Before I finally have to give up and accept that it's hopeless. It was funny before, but now it's just sad. Too sad. I hope you're trolling. If not, you need help. | ||
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tech information
105 Posts
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tech information
105 Posts
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ikl2
United States145 Posts
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tech information
105 Posts
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ikl2
United States145 Posts
Edit: We can grant every single premise about resources and physical science, and not get the conclusion you're looking for: put the physicists, chemists, and biologists in charge. | ||
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kazie
258 Posts
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tech information
105 Posts
have carried out research in that field, and that, I think, is second to nobody's. We have anticipated a great deal of work by the United States Government by four or five years and obtained the same results. | ||
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ikl2
United States145 Posts
Your argument is equivalent to: 1) The sky is blue. 2) Cows moo. Thus, I should be President of the United States. There is absolutely no logical relationship. | ||
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tech information
105 Posts
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ikl2
United States145 Posts
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tech information
105 Posts
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tech information
105 Posts
User was banned for this post. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On September 14 2011 12:08 tech information wrote: "Despite their inherent incompatibilities, these two systems during the last two centuries have had one fundamental characteristic in common, namely, exponential growth, which has made a reasonably stable coexistence possible. But, for various reasons, it is impossible for the matter-energy system to sustain exponential growth for more than a few tens of doublings, and this phase is by now almost over. The monetary system has no such constraints, and, according to one of its most fundamental rules, it must continue to grow by compound interest. This disparity between a monetary system which continues to grow exponentially and a physical system which is unable to do so leads to an increase with time in the ratio of money to the output of the physical system. This manifests itself as price inflation. A monetary alternative corresponding to a zero physical growth rate would be a zero interest rate. The result in either case would be large-scale financial instability." The monetary system is not a system that is out of control, it is a system that is completely controlled by the availability of goods, and the wish for people to have such goods. It doesn't matter how much people want things - and bear in mind that in economics, there is no such thing as need (or rather, there is no difference from want and need), if supply is low, prices will go up, and eventually people will not buy it anymore. The monetary system still grows exponentially, and that's because supply has been growing. When supply drops, the price will rise, and the resource will sell slower and slower and the price will eventually get so high that alternatives (anything from horseback to solar and hydrogen) will be more highly demanded as well as more profitable ventures for businesses to go into. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On September 14 2011 12:42 Belial88 wrote: The monetary system is not a system that is out of control, it is a system that is completely controlled by the availability of goods, and the wish for people to have such goods. It doesn't matter how much people want things - and bear in mind that in economics, there is no such thing as need (or rather, there is no difference from want and need), if supply is low, prices will go up, and eventually people will not buy it anymore. The monetary system still grows exponentially, and that's because supply has been growing. When supply drops, the price will rise, and the resource will sell slower and slower and the price will eventually get so high that alternatives (anything from horseback to solar and hydrogen) will be more highly demanded as well as more profitable ventures for businesses to go into. Essentially what I wanted to say, but said better. That whole long blob of text came down to a fundamental misunderstanding about how money works (kinda straw-manning money & the market of goods/services), criticizing the straw man, and putting forth a very hard-to-explain new monetary policy that contains none of these. If this technocracy proponent refuses to understand how money interacts with supply and demand in the market, then I see no point in further debate. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
Problems created through technology: - pollution - loss of social networks (mobility enforces the loss of contacts in your neighborhood and the "technological social networks" are of a lesser quality) - loss of social values (yay, free porn on the internet and new and more violent movies every season?) Technology and globalism basically follow one motto: divide et impera and it divides the population from their family and friends to make the individual weaker when faced with a decision "from those in power" (not just politicians, but company owners as well). | ||
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