On July 12 2011 19:01 BlackJack wrote: It's funny how many white males from 1st world countries are posting like "I never get offended by discriminatory language on the internet."
Really? As a white male you don't get offended when someone calls you a nigger? Give yourself a round of applause...
This made me lol.
I share a similar opinion to most in this thread. Trashtalking on the internet is not going to go away and it's no ones issue to sort it out.
It does bother me that words such as gay/black/jew are used as insults but I don't know how it can ever be stopped. When in genuine anger (online or IRL) it reflects a much deeper problem which is much more serious.
On July 12 2011 17:59 Malyce wrote: Words like "fag" or "gay" are primarily used to designate homosexuals. There's a reason for which these words and not others were used to designate bad players/cheesers/all-iners.
Even if it has become a slang and has been normalised doesn't mean it's still fine to use them. It's just that people don't realise that to a certain minority, the use of such language is offensive.
In other words if you are a homosexual, you cheese a dude and he calls you "fkin fag", even if he means "your play is annoying", textually it's still "you play like a gay person, in other words very bad", and as a member of the targetted community you can and probably will feel legitimately offended.
You can also see it this way. It's unfair to gay people that "gay" is used to designate bad play. Why isn't the word "hetero" used instead? Quite frankly the only reason is that the gaming community has been and to a certain extent still is homophobic and homophobic rants have normalised into everyday language.
But those "gay" people are also "full of joy or mirth" which is basically what the word means... unless you meant the slang form of it...it'd be completely different... "full of joy or mirth" at the time of origin
When people began using the word in videogames, or in general as an insult, they weren't referring to "full of joy". They were referring to the homosexuality.
Basically when we pick up these insults today, we're recycling the heritage of our homophobic forefathers. Just like the "n" word with the heritage of former slave owners. Not a heritage I'd like to pick up.
You guys are hard to argue/discuss things with. Too narrow view on how people use words. Too many assumptions.
If you think you know why people use these words. Then you highly assumptive. Just be humble and inquisitive. At least then you would be willing to learn from the world.
Tip: Everyone is an individual. 2 people can say the same thing, both with completely different reasons and emotions.
Lastly, You know not these people on the internet.
Sure when you use the word "fag" you don't mean to bash on a certain group of people, just on your opponent. And it would be fine if that was an objective way to see it.
Thing is words aren't neutral, they have a history, and the reason "gay" is used as an insult has a pretty bad history. Maybe not for you, but why would you want to hurt somebody who has had to live through discrimination for being gay?
There are litteraly hundreds of words you can use to evacuate your frustration, why use those that bear a difficult past for some groups of people? It's easy to change.
Sure everyone is an individual, but everyone is also capable of empathy. Why offend people when you can chose not to do so?
Edit Zetter: perhaps you feel particularly offended by that word because you're german? All these words offend different people, so project the feeling you get when called nazi to a gay person called faggot, it's roughly the same.
Do you honestly think that a 16 year old playing a game of Starcraft, get's a bit annoyed by his 7th 6pooling opponent is going to think "my opponent might actually be gay" before lashing out with the word fag? There's no more depth in the thought process other than "that's a funny word to use" when a gamer insults someone...
Once again it's people overthinking and using their hypersensitivity to try and censor the population... grow up and grow some thick skin like the rest of us had too...
To quote Steve Hughes - "You want to live in a democracy, but you never want to be offended again...?"
Not the issue.
The point isn't if you are actually referring to gay people or not. The point is that words have a meaning beyond the one you're willing to give them.
You can offend someone unintentionnaly, hell most of the people you offend you probably do so unintentionnaly (at least I hope for your sake). Is it still a reason to do it? If somebody tells you "please don't use the word fag in front of me, it offends me", would you then stop using it? Do you really need to be told?
Democracy means respect for people as equals. Discrimination is not a part of democracy. You can dislike me because you think I'm stupid, arrogant or hypersensitive. Not because I have blue eyes. It's that simple.
What did i just say? I don't run algorithm's to see what the chances are of my opponent's being of a certain ethnic background / sexuality / gender, (not that i generally tend to insult people as its just a game seriously people) Back when i was in my teens i would simply pick a word, any "trending" word - a "word of the day" if you will and simply type it, if the word was fag and the person was indeed gay then that's just unlucky... it doesn't mean i'm homophobic it was just a bad choice of words in that circumstance...
You need to grow up in my honest opinion, alot of things in the world will offend you and its simply not worth your valuable time of effort trying to fight this whole internet thing... besides you're going to get alot worse in the real world where people insult you or offend you to your face... I'm irish and i've been called everything from Paddy to Green Nigger, do i get offended? no, i'm proud of my heritage and of who i am and i think if you're gay then be proud to be gay, when someone calls you a fag, don't react to it as if being gay is some nasty illegal taboo thing, if someone calls you a pedophile then that's a complete different kettle of fish, I personally would expect a big fat banning from Blizzard if i called someone a pedo ingame, hell i'd even ban myself!
Moral of the story, be proud of who you are and if you're not what they say you are then, well shrug it off and remember that worse things will happen to you... I'm going to "practice what i preach" stop wasting time and effort on this issue which is merely a matter of making a mountain out of a mole hill... (and i apologise for the english metaphor's)
On July 12 2011 17:59 Malyce wrote: Words like "fag" or "gay" are primarily used to designate homosexuals. There's a reason for which these words and not others were used to designate bad players/cheesers/all-iners.
Even if it has become a slang and has been normalised doesn't mean it's still fine to use them. It's just that people don't realise that to a certain minority, the use of such language is offensive.
In other words if you are a homosexual, you cheese a dude and he calls you "fkin fag", even if he means "your play is annoying", textually it's still "you play like a gay person, in other words very bad", and as a member of the targetted community you can and probably will feel legitimately offended.
You can also see it this way. It's unfair to gay people that "gay" is used to designate bad play. Why isn't the word "hetero" used instead? Quite frankly the only reason is that the gaming community has been and to a certain extent still is homophobic and homophobic rants have normalised into everyday language.
But those "gay" people are also "full of joy or mirth" which is basically what the word means... unless you meant the slang form of it...it'd be completely different... "full of joy or mirth" at the time of origin
When people began using the word in videogames, or in general as an insult, they weren't referring to "full of joy". They were referring to the homosexuality.
Basically when we pick up these insults today, we're recycling the heritage of our homophobic forefathers. Just like the "n" word with the heritage of former slave owners. Not a heritage I'd like to pick up.
You guys are hard to argue/discuss things with. Too narrow view on how people use words. Too many assumptions.
If you think you know why people use these words. Then you highly assumptive. Just be humble and inquisitive. At least then you would be willing to learn from the world.
Tip: Everyone is an individual. 2 people can say the same thing, both with completely different reasons and emotions.
Lastly, You know not these people on the internet.
Sure when you use the word "fag" you don't mean to bash on a certain group of people, just on your opponent. And it would be fine if that was an objective way to see it.
Thing is words aren't neutral, they have a history, and the reason "gay" is used as an insult has a pretty bad history. Maybe not for you, but why would you want to hurt somebody who has had to live through discrimination for being gay?
There are litteraly hundreds of words you can use to evacuate your frustration, why use those that bear a difficult past for some groups of people? It's easy to change.
Sure everyone is an individual, but everyone is also capable of empathy. Why offend people when you can chose not to do so?
Edit Zetter: perhaps you feel particularly offended by that word because you're german? All these words offend different people, so project the feeling you get when called nazi to a gay person called faggot, it's roughly the same.
Do you honestly think that a 16 year old playing a game of Starcraft, get's a bit annoyed by his 7th 6pooling opponent is going to think "my opponent might actually be gay" before lashing out with the word fag? There's no more depth in the thought process other than "that's a funny word to use" when a gamer insults someone...
Once again it's people overthinking and using their hypersensitivity to try and censor the population... grow up and grow some thick skin like the rest of us had too...
To quote Steve Hughes - "You want to live in a democracy, but you never want to be offended again...?"
Not the issue.
The point isn't if you are actually referring to gay people or not. The point is that words have a meaning beyond the one you're willing to give them.
You can offend someone unintentionnaly, hell most of the people you offend you probably do so unintentionnaly (at least I hope for your sake). Is it still a reason to do it? If somebody tells you "please don't use the word fag in front of me, it offends me", would you then stop using it? Do you really need to be told?
Democracy means respect for people as equals. Discrimination is not a part of democracy. You can dislike me because you think I'm stupid, arrogant or hypersensitive. Not because I have blue eyes. It's that simple.
NO it doesn't!!!!
People are allowed to dislike people with blue eyes. OMG what the hell kind of world do you think you live in??
Hopefully not fascism. When you begin to treat people differently because of things like eye colour, it's no longer a democracy. Democracy means equal rights.
Let me clarify, you can dislike me for whatever you want, what I meant is that you shouldn't treat me differently because of it.
Freedom of expression is never absolute. If it were, there would be no freedom of expression, because people would deny each other's freedom of expression.
Insulting people with derogatory words ≠ denying another persons freedom of expression
Also, You are still on the internet. Please understand that it's not a personal world, UNLESS you make it personal.
Look, I could make saying "um" an offense to myself. It's all SUBJECTIVE. Gosh.
On July 12 2011 17:59 Malyce wrote: Words like "fag" or "gay" are primarily used to designate homosexuals. There's a reason for which these words and not others were used to designate bad players/cheesers/all-iners.
Even if it has become a slang and has been normalised doesn't mean it's still fine to use them. It's just that people don't realise that to a certain minority, the use of such language is offensive.
In other words if you are a homosexual, you cheese a dude and he calls you "fkin fag", even if he means "your play is annoying", textually it's still "you play like a gay person, in other words very bad", and as a member of the targetted community you can and probably will feel legitimately offended.
You can also see it this way. It's unfair to gay people that "gay" is used to designate bad play. Why isn't the word "hetero" used instead? Quite frankly the only reason is that the gaming community has been and to a certain extent still is homophobic and homophobic rants have normalised into everyday language.
But those "gay" people are also "full of joy or mirth" which is basically what the word means... unless you meant the slang form of it...it'd be completely different... "full of joy or mirth" at the time of origin
When people began using the word in videogames, or in general as an insult, they weren't referring to "full of joy". They were referring to the homosexuality.
Basically when we pick up these insults today, we're recycling the heritage of our homophobic forefathers. Just like the "n" word with the heritage of former slave owners. Not a heritage I'd like to pick up.
You guys are hard to argue/discuss things with. Too narrow view on how people use words. Too many assumptions.
If you think you know why people use these words. Then you highly assumptive. Just be humble and inquisitive. At least then you would be willing to learn from the world.
Tip: Everyone is an individual. 2 people can say the same thing, both with completely different reasons and emotions.
Lastly, You know not these people on the internet.
Sure when you use the word "fag" you don't mean to bash on a certain group of people, just on your opponent. And it would be fine if that was an objective way to see it.
Thing is words aren't neutral, they have a history, and the reason "gay" is used as an insult has a pretty bad history. Maybe not for you, but why would you want to hurt somebody who has had to live through discrimination for being gay?
There are litteraly hundreds of words you can use to evacuate your frustration, why use those that bear a difficult past for some groups of people? It's easy to change.
Sure everyone is an individual, but everyone is also capable of empathy. Why offend people when you can chose not to do so?
Edit Zetter: perhaps you feel particularly offended by that word because you're german? All these words offend different people, so project the feeling you get when called nazi to a gay person called faggot, it's roughly the same.
Do you honestly think that a 16 year old playing a game of Starcraft, get's a bit annoyed by his 7th 6pooling opponent is going to think "my opponent might actually be gay" before lashing out with the word fag? There's no more depth in the thought process other than "that's a funny word to use" when a gamer insults someone...
Once again it's people overthinking and using their hypersensitivity to try and censor the population... grow up and grow some thick skin like the rest of us had too...
To quote Steve Hughes - "You want to live in a democracy, but you never want to be offended again...?"
Not the issue.
The point isn't if you are actually referring to gay people or not. The point is that words have a meaning beyond the one you're willing to give them.
You can offend someone unintentionnaly, hell most of the people you offend you probably do so unintentionnaly (at least I hope for your sake). Is it still a reason to do it? If somebody tells you "please don't use the word fag in front of me, it offends me", would you then stop using it? Do you really need to be told?
Democracy means respect for people as equals. Discrimination is not a part of democracy. You can dislike me because you think I'm stupid, arrogant or hypersensitive. Not because I have blue eyes. It's that simple.
What did i just say? I don't run algorithm's to see what the chances are of my opponent's being of a certain ethnic background / sexuality / gender, (not that i generally tend to insult people as its just a game seriously people) Back when i was in my teens i would simply pick a word, any "trending" word - a "word of the day" if you will and simply type it, if the word was fag and the person was indeed gay then that's just unlucky... it doesn't mean i'm homophobic it was just a bad choice of words in that circumstance...
You need to grow up in my honest opinion, alot of things in the world will offend you and its simply not worth your valuable time of effort trying to fight this whole internet thing... besides you're going to get alot worse in the real world where people insult you or offend you to your face... I'm irish and i've been called everything from Paddy to Green Nigger, do i get offended? no, i'm proud of my heritage and of who i am and i think if you're gay then be proud to be gay, when someone calls you a fag, don't react to it as if being gay is some nasty illegal taboo thing, if someone calls you a pedophile then that's a complete different kettle of fish, I personally would expect a big fat banning from Blizzard if i called someone a pedo ingame, hell i'd even ban myself!
Moral of the story, be proud of who you are and if you're not what they say you are then, well shrug it off and remember that worse things will happen to you... I'm going to "practice what i preach" stop wasting time and effort on this issue which is merely a matter of making a mountain out of a mole hill... (and i apologise for the english metaphor's)
Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly fine with who I am and have no personnal issue with these insults, being white heterosexual pseudo-christian and whatnot.
Grow up =/= become unsensitive. What I don't understand is you recognise that using a word like "fag" is bad if you're adressing a gay person. Then why not just not use it ever with anyone? It's extremely simple to do.
Also the thing is when somebody calls you "gay", they're not saying "you are homosexual". It isn't "you banshee rushed me, I have no detec', you must like other men". They're saying you suck, you're bad. In other words they're saying "you are as bad as gay people", they are associatnig being bad to being gay. Sure it could be implicit, unintentionnal, trendy or whatnot. But I still think that if you can choose to just not offend somebody, then do it!
Again I don't feel personnally offended and I'm not preaching anything, just giving my honest opinion on the matter. I know it won't change anything, I don't report anything to blizzard, I know it's pointless.
On July 12 2011 19:01 BlackJack wrote: It's funny how many white males from 1st world countries are posting like "I never get offended by discriminatory language on the internet."
Really? As a white male you don't get offended when someone calls you a nigger? Give yourself a round of applause...
What about the gay white males from 1st world countries that don't get offended by people calling them a faggot? I'd say people being anti-gay is just as rampant as racism in 1st world countries, and I know plenty of people who don't get offended when someone calls them a faggot.
Some people are just looking for reasons to feel offended butthurt. Definitely not an issue.
On July 12 2011 19:01 BlackJack wrote: It's funny how many white males from 1st world countries are posting like "I never get offended by discriminatory language on the internet."
Really? As a white male you don't get offended when someone calls you a nigger? Give yourself a round of applause...
I don't get offended when someone calls me a nigger, that's true. But I don't get offended when someone calls me white+insult (etc) either.
On July 12 2011 17:59 Malyce wrote: Words like "fag" or "gay" are primarily used to designate homosexuals. There's a reason for which these words and not others were used to designate bad players/cheesers/all-iners.
Even if it has become a slang and has been normalised doesn't mean it's still fine to use them. It's just that people don't realise that to a certain minority, the use of such language is offensive.
In other words if you are a homosexual, you cheese a dude and he calls you "fkin fag", even if he means "your play is annoying", textually it's still "you play like a gay person, in other words very bad", and as a member of the targetted community you can and probably will feel legitimately offended.
You can also see it this way. It's unfair to gay people that "gay" is used to designate bad play. Why isn't the word "hetero" used instead? Quite frankly the only reason is that the gaming community has been and to a certain extent still is homophobic and homophobic rants have normalised into everyday language.
But those "gay" people are also "full of joy or mirth" which is basically what the word means... unless you meant the slang form of it...it'd be completely different... "full of joy or mirth" at the time of origin
When people began using the word in videogames, or in general as an insult, they weren't referring to "full of joy". They were referring to the homosexuality.
Basically when we pick up these insults today, we're recycling the heritage of our homophobic forefathers. Just like the "n" word with the heritage of former slave owners. Not a heritage I'd like to pick up.
You guys are hard to argue/discuss things with. Too narrow view on how people use words. Too many assumptions.
If you think you know why people use these words. Then you highly assumptive. Just be humble and inquisitive. At least then you would be willing to learn from the world.
Tip: Everyone is an individual. 2 people can say the same thing, both with completely different reasons and emotions.
Lastly, You know not these people on the internet.
Sure when you use the word "fag" you don't mean to bash on a certain group of people, just on your opponent. And it would be fine if that was an objective way to see it.
Thing is words aren't neutral, they have a history, and the reason "gay" is used as an insult has a pretty bad history. Maybe not for you, but why would you want to hurt somebody who has had to live through discrimination for being gay?
There are litteraly hundreds of words you can use to evacuate your frustration, why use those that bear a difficult past for some groups of people? It's easy to change.
Sure everyone is an individual, but everyone is also capable of empathy. Why offend people when you can chose not to do so?
Edit Zetter: perhaps you feel particularly offended by that word because you're german? All these words offend different people, so project the feeling you get when called nazi to a gay person called faggot, it's roughly the same.
Do you honestly think that a 16 year old playing a game of Starcraft, get's a bit annoyed by his 7th 6pooling opponent is going to think "my opponent might actually be gay" before lashing out with the word fag? There's no more depth in the thought process other than "that's a funny word to use" when a gamer insults someone...
Once again it's people overthinking and using their hypersensitivity to try and censor the population... grow up and grow some thick skin like the rest of us had too...
To quote Steve Hughes - "You want to live in a democracy, but you never want to be offended again...?"
Not the issue.
The point isn't if you are actually referring to gay people or not. The point is that words have a meaning beyond the one you're willing to give them.
You can offend someone unintentionnaly, hell most of the people you offend you probably do so unintentionnaly (at least I hope for your sake). Is it still a reason to do it? If somebody tells you "please don't use the word fag in front of me, it offends me", would you then stop using it? Do you really need to be told?
Democracy means respect for people as equals. Discrimination is not a part of democracy. You can dislike me because you think I'm stupid, arrogant or hypersensitive. Not because I have blue eyes. It's that simple.
NO it doesn't!!!!
People are allowed to dislike people with blue eyes. OMG what the hell kind of world do you think you live in??
Hopefully not fascism. When you begin to treat people differently because of things like eye colour, it's no longer a democracy. Democracy means equal rights.
Let me clarify, you can dislike me for whatever you want, what I meant is that you shouldn't treat me differently because of it.
Freedom of expression is never absolute. If it were, there would be no freedom of expression, because people would deny each other's freedom of expression.
Malyce, by your definition the US is a fascist state, because homosexuals don't have equal rights t_t I believe there are things like affirmative action in the US as well. That's discrimination. And personally I think that's much worse than the simple use of WORDS.
On July 12 2011 18:36 Malyce wrote:There are litteraly hundreds of words you can use to evacuate your frustration, why use those that bear a difficult past for some groups of people? It's easy to change.
It's really not. There will always be some group of people who will be offended by some random word. You can't decide how to speak based on trying not to offend anyone. That's unreasonable for the simple reason that people take unreasonable offense to silly words. In fact, these people who take offense are OPPRESSING others, if they get their way and ban these words.
Of course, as has been reiterated numerous times in this thread: Just ignore it. The people who make a big deal about it are the ones giving it power.
On July 12 2011 19:22 Malyce wrote: Also the thing is when somebody calls you "gay", they're not saying "you are homosexual". It isn't "you banshee rushed me, I have no detec', you must like other men". They're saying you suck, you're bad. In other words they're saying "you are as bad as gay people", they are associatnig being bad to being gay. Sure it could be implicit, unintentionnal, trendy or whatnot. But I still think that if you can choose to just not offend somebody, then do it!
This is simply not true. There will be people who associate "being gay" with "bad", but everyone that uses "gay" in a negative way do not necessarily. Words can have multiple meanings totally unrelated to one another. I can call someone a faggot when I dislike them, but I definitely don't harbour any hatred towards homosexuals.
I am certain that you have no problem with someone using the word "gay" to mean "happy". So why do you have a problem with people using "gay" to mean "you suck". They are simply different definitions of a word. Few people imply that "you are homosexual and therefore you suck" when they say gay, and the sooner you realise this fact the less offended you can feel! (on behalf of others or not)
On July 12 2011 17:59 Malyce wrote: Words like "fag" or "gay" are primarily used to designate homosexuals. There's a reason for which these words and not others were used to designate bad players/cheesers/all-iners.
Even if it has become a slang and has been normalised doesn't mean it's still fine to use them. It's just that people don't realise that to a certain minority, the use of such language is offensive.
In other words if you are a homosexual, you cheese a dude and he calls you "fkin fag", even if he means "your play is annoying", textually it's still "you play like a gay person, in other words very bad", and as a member of the targetted community you can and probably will feel legitimately offended.
You can also see it this way. It's unfair to gay people that "gay" is used to designate bad play. Why isn't the word "hetero" used instead? Quite frankly the only reason is that the gaming community has been and to a certain extent still is homophobic and homophobic rants have normalised into everyday language.
But those "gay" people are also "full of joy or mirth" which is basically what the word means... unless you meant the slang form of it...it'd be completely different... "full of joy or mirth" at the time of origin
When people began using the word in videogames, or in general as an insult, they weren't referring to "full of joy". They were referring to the homosexuality.
Basically when we pick up these insults today, we're recycling the heritage of our homophobic forefathers. Just like the "n" word with the heritage of former slave owners. Not a heritage I'd like to pick up.
You guys are hard to argue/discuss things with. Too narrow view on how people use words. Too many assumptions.
If you think you know why people use these words. Then you highly assumptive. Just be humble and inquisitive. At least then you would be willing to learn from the world.
Tip: Everyone is an individual. 2 people can say the same thing, both with completely different reasons and emotions.
Lastly, You know not these people on the internet.
Sure when you use the word "fag" you don't mean to bash on a certain group of people, just on your opponent. And it would be fine if that was an objective way to see it.
Thing is words aren't neutral, they have a history, and the reason "gay" is used as an insult has a pretty bad history. Maybe not for you, but why would you want to hurt somebody who has had to live through discrimination for being gay?
There are litteraly hundreds of words you can use to evacuate your frustration, why use those that bear a difficult past for some groups of people? It's easy to change.
Sure everyone is an individual, but everyone is also capable of empathy. Why offend people when you can chose not to do so?
Edit Zetter: perhaps you feel particularly offended by that word because you're german? All these words offend different people, so project the feeling you get when called nazi to a gay person called faggot, it's roughly the same.
Do you honestly think that a 16 year old playing a game of Starcraft, get's a bit annoyed by his 7th 6pooling opponent is going to think "my opponent might actually be gay" before lashing out with the word fag? There's no more depth in the thought process other than "that's a funny word to use" when a gamer insults someone...
Once again it's people overthinking and using their hypersensitivity to try and censor the population... grow up and grow some thick skin like the rest of us had too...
To quote Steve Hughes - "You want to live in a democracy, but you never want to be offended again...?"
Not the issue.
The point isn't if you are actually referring to gay people or not. The point is that words have a meaning beyond the one you're willing to give them.
You can offend someone unintentionnaly, hell most of the people you offend you probably do so unintentionnaly (at least I hope for your sake). Is it still a reason to do it? If somebody tells you "please don't use the word fag in front of me, it offends me", would you then stop using it? Do you really need to be told?
Democracy means respect for people as equals. Discrimination is not a part of democracy. You can dislike me because you think I'm stupid, arrogant or hypersensitive. Not because I have blue eyes. It's that simple.
What did i just say? I don't run algorithm's to see what the chances are of my opponent's being of a certain ethnic background / sexuality / gender, (not that i generally tend to insult people as its just a game seriously people) Back when i was in my teens i would simply pick a word, any "trending" word - a "word of the day" if you will and simply type it, if the word was fag and the person was indeed gay then that's just unlucky... it doesn't mean i'm homophobic it was just a bad choice of words in that circumstance...
You need to grow up in my honest opinion, alot of things in the world will offend you and its simply not worth your valuable time of effort trying to fight this whole internet thing... besides you're going to get alot worse in the real world where people insult you or offend you to your face... I'm irish and i've been called everything from Paddy to Green Nigger, do i get offended? no, i'm proud of my heritage and of who i am and i think if you're gay then be proud to be gay, when someone calls you a fag, don't react to it as if being gay is some nasty illegal taboo thing, if someone calls you a pedophile then that's a complete different kettle of fish, I personally would expect a big fat banning from Blizzard if i called someone a pedo ingame, hell i'd even ban myself!
Moral of the story, be proud of who you are and if you're not what they say you are then, well shrug it off and remember that worse things will happen to you... I'm going to "practice what i preach" stop wasting time and effort on this issue which is merely a matter of making a mountain out of a mole hill... (and i apologise for the english metaphor's)
Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly fine with who I am and have no personnal issue with these insults, being white heterosexual pseudo-christian and whatnot.
Grow up =/= become unsensitive. What I don't understand is you recognise that using a word like "fag" is bad if you're adressing a gay person. Then why not just not use it ever with anyone? It's extremely simple to do.
Also the thing is when somebody calls you "gay", they're not saying "you are homosexual". It isn't "you banshee rushed me, I have no detec', you must like other men". They're saying you suck, you're bad. In other words they're saying "you are as bad as gay people", they are associatnig being bad to being gay. Sure it could be implicit, unintentionnal, trendy or whatnot. But I still think that if you can choose to just not offend somebody, then do it!
Again I don't feel personnally offended and I'm not preaching anything, just giving my honest opinion on the matter. I know it won't change anything, I don't report anything to blizzard, I know it's pointless.
it's just a figure of speech. just like when you say god damn it you don't want god to damn whatever it is that's bothering you. you probably dont even believe in god.
But oh no you could be offending christinas when you say it, after all you shouldn't take gods name in vain. But here you are shitting all over their values.
point is, noone actually means "you're a homosexual" when you say fag. You could just as well say someone is a dick or an idiot(i mean no offense to actual human sized penises playing SC2 or to people with low IQ). If a gay guy gets offended by it then that's his problem, unless used in a explicit gay/hetero context fag has nothing to do with gay people. You could actually be calling someone a cigarette (hello england :D)
On July 12 2011 19:36 Lucidity wrote: This is simply not true. There will be people who associate "being gay" with "bad", but everyone that uses "gay" in a negative way do not necessarily. Words can have multiple meanings totally unrelated to one another. I can call someone a faggot when I dislike them, but I definitely don't harbour any hatred towards homosexuals.
I am certain that you have no problem with someone using the word "gay" to mean "happy". So why do you have a problem with people using "gay" to mean "you suck". They are simply different definitions of a word. Few people imply that "you are homosexual and therefore you suck" when they say gay, and the sooner you realise this fact the less offended you can feel! (on behalf of others or not)
As someone who actually /is/ gay, I can say that when someone lashes out online and calls me a "faggot" even though I know that it doesn't carry homophobic connotations (usually), it still makes me feel terrible.
The reason isn't that someone is mad at me on the internet for doing something they didn't like, the reason is because they are using a derogatory term for something I cannot control about myself in a way that intends to insult and demean the other party. It would sound ridiculous to use something like "you are so straight" as an insult, and that is because in most people's minds, being straight isnt something to debase someone over. Being gay, even though most people wouldn't call themselves homophobic, seems to be mentally engraved into most people as a reason to debase others.
It reminds me of a book I read where the main character had a grandfather who called black people "niggers", but vehemently denied racism of any sort.
Anyway, I don't usually think less of people who use that language online, because I know they didn't mean it like that, but it still hurts a little on the inside because it is a reminder of the current popular opinion of latent homophobia.
Colloquial use of faggot, we're taking it back and making it ours.
and when people say that things are "gay", they aren't saying that thing is bad, are you really so blind?
Let's say you're playing some FPS and something happens and you die and you say, "That's gay." That's not saying what happened was bad. You are saying that what happened could not be stopped or changed, if anything people saying that things are "gay" are referencing the power of homosexuality and how homosexuals cannot be changed or stopped from being homosexuals.
I don't see where this idea of "bad gay bad" came from, but I guess people like to hear what they want to hear.
Poll: What should we do with players who using discriminatory language
Do nothing.--It's not an issue. (456)
72%
Tell them to stop, and report them if they don't. (58)
9%
Do nothing.--It's Blizzard's problem. (38)
6%
Ban them only if they don't stop after repeatedly warnings. (27)
4%
Shun them online and block them from communication. (25)
4%
Ban them outright. (19)
3%
Tarnish their good name online wherever you can. (5)
1%
Tell them to stop repeatedly, but nothing else. (3)
0%
Tell them to stop, and get others to harass them if they don't. (3)
0%
634 total votes
Your vote: What should we do with players who using discriminatory language
(Vote): Do nothing.--It's Blizzard's problem. (Vote): Do nothing.--It's not an issue. (Vote): Tell them to stop repeatedly, but nothing else. (Vote): Tell them to stop, and report them if they don't. (Vote): Tell them to stop, and get others to harass them if they don't. (Vote): Shun them online and block them from communication. (Vote): Ban them outright. (Vote): Ban them only if they don't stop after repeatedly warnings. (Vote): Tarnish their good name online wherever you can.
Across online gaming communities people feel that it is okay to use discriminating language to demean other people. Homophobic language is by far the most common but racist and sexist language appears a lot as well. People who use it are explicitly using it with a negative connotation in order to put another player down.--In Starcraft 2 it's often for using a cheese strategy. The way people are using this discriminatory discourse goes beyond smack talk, which I believe is a healthy and fun part of the game. There's a difference between making fun of someone and calling them a "f*cking f*ggot" and other countless examples.
That being said.-- I wonder what people think are the appropriate response by the people in our community.
As a kickoff.-- I believe that people should ask someone to stop using the language and then if they don't should be reported to Blizzard, the forum, or the event coordinator who should warn the player. If the player doesn't stop after the official warning then they should be banned. I think the warning should also explain the rationale behind trying to stamp out discriminatory language--namely to keep the online gaming community a welcoming and safe one for people of all types to enjoy and participate in.
Other answers could be socially stigmatize them, multiple warnings, refusing to play with them (aka shun them), or any other number of solutions.
What are people's thoughts? Or do people think it's too trivial of an issue to talk about?--From what I've talked with others in game about it seems like the community would like to take action to do something.
Feel free to respond or just vote in my poll.
Personally, growing up I heard "gay" or "fag" a lot to refer to people all the time. Like in high school or middle school. I never associated it with discrimination of actual homosexual people, and I got used to it. I have a lesbian friend and we've talked about something being "gay" multiple times, in terms of meaning its lame. The definition and usage of words changes over time.
faggot or esp ( US ) fagot 1 (ˈfæɡət) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]
— n 1. a bundle of sticks or twigs, esp when bound together and used as fuel 2. a bundle of iron bars, esp a box formed by four pieces of wrought iron and filled with scrap to be forged into wrought iron 3. a ball of chopped meat, usually pork liver, bound with herbs and bread and eaten fried 4. a bundle of anything
— vb 5. to collect into a bundle or bundles 6. needlework to do faggoting on (a garment, piece of cloth, etc)
[C14: from Old French, perhaps from Greek phakelos bundle]
[fag-uht] Show IPA –noun Slang: Disparaging and Offensive . a male homosexual. Origin: 1910–15, Americanism ; compare faggot a contemptuous term for a woman (from circa 1590), perhaps the same word as fagot
—Related forms fag·got·y, fag·got·ty, adjective
It seems like a word, once it becomes associated with something negative that society dislikes, suddenly becomes unacceptable and dies off due to being unable to be used ever again, and tus changed again in meaning so that its acceptable once more.
Meh.
I can totally understand being sensitive to the need of people to not feel discriminated against and thus personally emotionally hurt, so if someone was sensitive to such words I'd never think of using them around said persons. But what if I were personally sensitive to "noob". can we get it destroyed in the community because it hurts my feeliings as being part of a group of people who aren't as good, and thus considered second rate, in game? It is after all a discriminating term used to refer to people that are less capable, or in other words, comes right along the lines of calling someone a retard when they actually do have some mental impediment to perform.
Oh, the good old days of star trek IV, where they called chekhov a "must be a freaking retard or something", such discriminatory language where the only other harsh word was dumbass. Thats another thing, whats ok in society one day becomes not ok the next, due to the accelerating amount of change going on from such a critical mass of people living. Its no coincidence that the population explosion of humanity also coincides with the explosion of technology and social reforms. the graphs look like a flat line, almost, until around the 1700's, and then it takes off exponentially along with population.
I don't get offended by people using words on the Internet but if I feel they're espousing views that contradict my own principals I'll block them and move on, and maybe encourage others to do the same. I'm not in the business of censoring people but that doesn't mean I, or anyone else, should listen to them.
I do really wish people who aren't racist, homophobic, sexist etc would widen their vocabulary from time to time though and pick more appropriate words. There are plenty of them and I feel just sticking to words you know could cause offense out of laziness is almost as bad as meaning them, as you're to some extent supporting the beliefs of bigots by giving their values some validation.
On July 12 2011 20:04 Iyerbeth wrote: I don't get offended by people using words on the Internet but if I feel they're espousing views that contradict my own principals I'll block them and move on, and maybe encourage others to do the same. I'm not in the business of censoring people but that doesn't mean I, or anyone else, should listen to them.
I do really wish people who aren't racist, homophobic, sexist etc would widen their vocabulary from time to time though and pick more appropriate words. There are plenty of them and I feel just sticking to words you know could cause offense out of laziness is almost as bad as meaning them, as you're to some extent supporting the beliefs of bigots by giving their values some validation.
thats my opinion too. people should block others they find offensive. If people have the power to not listen, they should use it.
I've been banned from bnet before for calling someone a bitch. its actually very easy to get banned if someone reports you, whether they were actually being a bitch or not. cheesers who lose and then drop hack because you beat them, yeah, I consider you a bitch for that business. take your loss like a man/woman.
On July 12 2011 19:36 Lucidity wrote: This is simply not true. There will be people who associate "being gay" with "bad", but everyone that uses "gay" in a negative way do not necessarily. Words can have multiple meanings totally unrelated to one another. I can call someone a faggot when I dislike them, but I definitely don't harbour any hatred towards homosexuals.
I am certain that you have no problem with someone using the word "gay" to mean "happy". So why do you have a problem with people using "gay" to mean "you suck". They are simply different definitions of a word. Few people imply that "you are homosexual and therefore you suck" when they say gay, and the sooner you realise this fact the less offended you can feel! (on behalf of others or not)
As someone who actually /is/ gay, I can say that when someone lashes out online and calls me a "faggot" even though I know that it doesn't carry homophobic connotations (usually), it still makes me feel terrible.
The reason isn't that someone is mad at me on the internet for doing something they didn't like, the reason is because they are using a derogatory term for something I cannot control about myself in a way that intends to insult and demean the other party. It would sound ridiculous to use something like "you are so straight" as an insult, and that is because in most people's minds, being straight isnt something to debase someone over. Being gay, even though most people wouldn't call themselves homophobic, seems to be mentally engraved into most people as a reason to debase others.
It reminds me of a book I read where the main character had a grandfather who called black people "niggers", but vehemently denied racism of any sort.
Anyway, I don't usually think less of people who use that language online, because I know they didn't mean it like that, but it still hurts a little on the inside because it is a reminder of the current popular opinion of latent homophobia.
While it's unfortunate that you feel a little hurt on the inside, that's life You will learn to ignore or accept the language with time. (Hopefully)
The fact of the matter is that "you are so straight" isn't comparable to "you are so gay". Most people don't mean "you have an attraction to the same sex and therefore you suck". Even if they did... It's just something that you have to learn to deal with. Many people use the word "nerd" as an insult. The fact is there is still quite a stigma attached to it. When I'm called a nerd I can choose to feel offended and get butthurt, or I can realise that it's not something to be ashamed about ... it's not really an insult at all. I suggest you do the same with gay related insults. As long as you don't feel ashamed of being gay, you should be able to laugh at the close minded individuals who do!
Just a little note on the "don't do things that can cause offense" thing. Some people expect others to avoid the word "gay", because homosexuals can take offense. I can tell you that most Christians find gay sex incredibly offensive, and if they had their way it would be banned! But I'm sure you wouldn't support banning that action on the basis of it causing offense... (Just like most people wouldn't support banning the use of goddamn/christ/jesus etc)
I think we should be educating the students in our schools to be understanding of all types of people and not use that kind of language. Bullying is a huge problem in our education system and causes many problems.
But trashtalking on the internet is not school, and it's a completely different environment. When people call me a douchebag faggotron 5000 when I kill them in StarCraft, I could care less about giving them a lesson in manners, because I'm busy teaching How-To-Pwn-Noobs 101.
It is not about turning a blind eye to something that will inevitably still occur no matter what you personally do about it. By taking offense you are essentially giving them power to troll you. If you are not affected the words lose its meaning, especially in a aggregate setting such as the internet.
On July 12 2011 19:01 BlackJack wrote: It's funny how many white males from 1st world countries are posting like "I never get offended by discriminatory language on the internet."
Really? As a white male you don't get offended when someone calls you a nigger? Give yourself a round of applause...
I don't get offended when someone calls me a nigger, that's true. But I don't get offended when someone calls me white+insult (etc) either.
don't be such a q***r to be offended by internet slurs. it's the last place we can safely exercise freedom of speech for real.
im not white(brown asian) and when my white friends make fun or ask me something "offensive" about my race i make a joke about it even more, seems to ease tensions and they end up having good things to say about my "kind" of people. its non-tolerance and hyper-sensitivity which causes tensions and offense when there shouldn't be any. with sexuality gay people always make fun of heteros(cause "we dont get it" for some reason (lol) ) in their convos so i dont see what the difference really is
EPT![[image loading]](http://ny-image0.etsy.com/il_75x75.240036736.jpg)
