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Ask and answer stupid questions here! - Page 220

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IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
April 01 2015 02:19 GMT
#4381
Stupid question for the ask and answer stupid questions thread:

Does magpie know that he's moron or is he truly just that dumb?

User was temp banned for this post.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
riotjune
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States3394 Posts
April 01 2015 02:21 GMT
#4382
Maybe he's the ultimate troll
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
April 01 2015 02:33 GMT
#4383
On April 01 2015 11:16 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2015 11:07 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:58 IgnE wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:44 IgnE wrote:
Wow. You can't read.


What did I misread?


On April 01 2015 10:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:16 IgnE wrote:
No one cares if you are correct. What are you talking about? Seriously. You don't get anything extra by being "correct."


Pascals Wager is completely about being correct and the consequences tha results from it.

If it is true that there is no afterlife--then there is no afterlife and your meaning ceases.
If it's true that of the infinite possible after life's that the one you picked is right--then you are rewarded.
If it's true that of the infinite possible after life's that the one you picked was wrong--then you are punished the same as if you believed there was no afterlife.

All choices are statistically wrong. But there's no reward to being correct should you believe in no afterlife.

The reward for being correct in choosing an afterlife is "something" as opposed to nothing. If you're wrong, you'll receive the same punishment as not believing. This is why Pascal suggests it is logical to at least believe in something to better increase you're chances at a substantive reward should you be correct.


I bolded it for you to make it easy. That bolded statement is something you have completely made up and is not consistent with the premises as you laid them out. You are incoherent and either trolling or remarkably stupid.

EDIT: Millitron also pointed out the same thing as I was posting this.


So tell me IgNe

If you are correct that you get nothing when you die--what do you get when you die?

It's a tautologically correct system. I you believe you get nothing by dying, then being correct give you nothing.

If you are wrong and you actually do get something when you die--then when you die you get something. The only way believing in no afterlife rewards you is if you are wrong. Tautologically speaking. I did not have to make it up--it's the whole point of the phrase "nothing happens after you die"

We can definitely argue over which afterlife requirements are most logical and benefiting to society. For example, if you believe that the only way to "heaven" is by not believing in god then go for it. Whatever floats your boat. The choices about which version of a possible heaven is infinite (as I have said exhaustively).

However, only one of those options doesn't give you anything if you are truly correct about it--which is believing there is no afterlife.

You're forgetting that it is equally likely that you only get your great afterlife if you believe there is no afterlife. Being correct in and of itself is no reward. Being right or wrong doesn't matter. The point is which one gets you into heaven. It is equally likely that you will be rewarded for being wrong as it is that you will be rewarded for being right.


And if Pascal's wager was about the Best way into heaven then this would be a valid argument.

However, Pascal's wager is about the consequences of the rewards of being right. Wanting to change the discourse is fine, but you need to state that you no longer wish to discuss the wager and no simply start talking about other concepts outside of the initial premise.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
April 01 2015 02:36 GMT
#4384
On April 01 2015 11:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2015 11:16 Millitron wrote:
On April 01 2015 11:07 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:58 IgnE wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:44 IgnE wrote:
Wow. You can't read.


What did I misread?


On April 01 2015 10:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:16 IgnE wrote:
No one cares if you are correct. What are you talking about? Seriously. You don't get anything extra by being "correct."


Pascals Wager is completely about being correct and the consequences tha results from it.

If it is true that there is no afterlife--then there is no afterlife and your meaning ceases.
If it's true that of the infinite possible after life's that the one you picked is right--then you are rewarded.
If it's true that of the infinite possible after life's that the one you picked was wrong--then you are punished the same as if you believed there was no afterlife.

All choices are statistically wrong. But there's no reward to being correct should you believe in no afterlife.

The reward for being correct in choosing an afterlife is "something" as opposed to nothing. If you're wrong, you'll receive the same punishment as not believing. This is why Pascal suggests it is logical to at least believe in something to better increase you're chances at a substantive reward should you be correct.


I bolded it for you to make it easy. That bolded statement is something you have completely made up and is not consistent with the premises as you laid them out. You are incoherent and either trolling or remarkably stupid.

EDIT: Millitron also pointed out the same thing as I was posting this.


So tell me IgNe

If you are correct that you get nothing when you die--what do you get when you die?

It's a tautologically correct system. I you believe you get nothing by dying, then being correct give you nothing.

If you are wrong and you actually do get something when you die--then when you die you get something. The only way believing in no afterlife rewards you is if you are wrong. Tautologically speaking. I did not have to make it up--it's the whole point of the phrase "nothing happens after you die"

We can definitely argue over which afterlife requirements are most logical and benefiting to society. For example, if you believe that the only way to "heaven" is by not believing in god then go for it. Whatever floats your boat. The choices about which version of a possible heaven is infinite (as I have said exhaustively).

However, only one of those options doesn't give you anything if you are truly correct about it--which is believing there is no afterlife.

You're forgetting that it is equally likely that you only get your great afterlife if you believe there is no afterlife. Being correct in and of itself is no reward. Being right or wrong doesn't matter. The point is which one gets you into heaven. It is equally likely that you will be rewarded for being wrong as it is that you will be rewarded for being right.


And if Pascal's wager was about the Best way into heaven then this would be a valid argument.

However, Pascal's wager is about the consequences of the rewards of being right. Wanting to change the discourse is fine, but you need to state that you no longer wish to discuss the wager and no simply start talking about other concepts outside of the initial premise.

It's still related though because it is equally likely that you will be rewarded for being wrong. So Pascal is wrong when he says believing there's no afterlife can get you nothing.
Who called in the fleet?
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
April 01 2015 02:38 GMT
#4385
On April 01 2015 11:15 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2015 10:59 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:54 puerk wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:44 IgnE wrote:
Wow. You can't read.

we established that around 8 pages earlier already....


Neither you not Milton posted anything 8pages ago.

8 pages ago are people screaming about how Christianity isn't correct and me telling then I wasn't talking about Christianity. 8 pages ago was where both me and Djpaz agreed that Pascals Wager had flaws.

So does that mean you're still in a "prove the zealots wrong" kick?

No. I think everybody is just tired of trying to plod through 18-paragraph posts that reiterate the same point you made in your previous 18-paragraph post but is still wrong.

What Millitron is trying to point out is that one of the N possibilities might be a rather quirky God, who only lets people into heaven if they DON'T believe in any god.

So no. In this case, the reward for religious people (all brands) is X (or if he is particularly petty, he lets them rot in hell for all eternity) and for atheists it is X + Y.

So in other words, there is no magic chosen one (atheism) out of the infinite possibilities that gets no possible reward at the end of the tunnel. There are simply N possibilities (in fact, it became an argument FOR atheism: atheists (might) get their cake and eat it too). Providing yet another counter-argument to Pascal's wager.

And no, you are not a special little snowflake for having found a flaw in his argument. As this thread has shown, there are numerous counter-arguments, none of which Pascal is alive to argue against, so we win. Can we now please go back to discussing the merits of shoving a girl through a door after you hold it open for her and other stupid questions?


Well if he's going to cite a specific page as to where his argument was he could at least be honest about it. I went back 8 pages and that's what was being talked about. Not bragging about my thoughts on pascal, as I've already mentioned my conclusions on him. There's just a select few people that keeps quoting me and wanting to start a conversation.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-01 02:39:34
April 01 2015 02:39 GMT
#4386
On April 01 2015 11:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2015 11:16 Millitron wrote:
On April 01 2015 11:07 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:58 IgnE wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:44 IgnE wrote:
Wow. You can't read.


What did I misread?


On April 01 2015 10:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:16 IgnE wrote:
No one cares if you are correct. What are you talking about? Seriously. You don't get anything extra by being "correct."


Pascals Wager is completely about being correct and the consequences tha results from it.

If it is true that there is no afterlife--then there is no afterlife and your meaning ceases.
If it's true that of the infinite possible after life's that the one you picked is right--then you are rewarded.
If it's true that of the infinite possible after life's that the one you picked was wrong--then you are punished the same as if you believed there was no afterlife.

All choices are statistically wrong. But there's no reward to being correct should you believe in no afterlife.

The reward for being correct in choosing an afterlife is "something" as opposed to nothing. If you're wrong, you'll receive the same punishment as not believing. This is why Pascal suggests it is logical to at least believe in something to better increase you're chances at a substantive reward should you be correct.


I bolded it for you to make it easy. That bolded statement is something you have completely made up and is not consistent with the premises as you laid them out. You are incoherent and either trolling or remarkably stupid.

EDIT: Millitron also pointed out the same thing as I was posting this.


So tell me IgNe

If you are correct that you get nothing when you die--what do you get when you die?

It's a tautologically correct system. I you believe you get nothing by dying, then being correct give you nothing.

If you are wrong and you actually do get something when you die--then when you die you get something. The only way believing in no afterlife rewards you is if you are wrong. Tautologically speaking. I did not have to make it up--it's the whole point of the phrase "nothing happens after you die"

We can definitely argue over which afterlife requirements are most logical and benefiting to society. For example, if you believe that the only way to "heaven" is by not believing in god then go for it. Whatever floats your boat. The choices about which version of a possible heaven is infinite (as I have said exhaustively).

However, only one of those options doesn't give you anything if you are truly correct about it--which is believing there is no afterlife.

You're forgetting that it is equally likely that you only get your great afterlife if you believe there is no afterlife. Being correct in and of itself is no reward. Being right or wrong doesn't matter. The point is which one gets you into heaven. It is equally likely that you will be rewarded for being wrong as it is that you will be rewarded for being right.


And if Pascal's wager was about the Best way into heaven then this would be a valid argument.

However, Pascal's wager is about the consequences of the rewards of being right. Wanting to change the discourse is fine, but you need to state that you no longer wish to discuss the wager and no simply start talking about other concepts outside of the initial premise.


No it's not. That's just what you are saying it is.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
April 01 2015 02:43 GMT
#4387
On April 01 2015 11:36 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2015 11:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 11:16 Millitron wrote:
On April 01 2015 11:07 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:58 IgnE wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:44 IgnE wrote:
Wow. You can't read.


What did I misread?


On April 01 2015 10:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:16 IgnE wrote:
No one cares if you are correct. What are you talking about? Seriously. You don't get anything extra by being "correct."


Pascals Wager is completely about being correct and the consequences tha results from it.

If it is true that there is no afterlife--then there is no afterlife and your meaning ceases.
If it's true that of the infinite possible after life's that the one you picked is right--then you are rewarded.
If it's true that of the infinite possible after life's that the one you picked was wrong--then you are punished the same as if you believed there was no afterlife.

All choices are statistically wrong. But there's no reward to being correct should you believe in no afterlife.

The reward for being correct in choosing an afterlife is "something" as opposed to nothing. If you're wrong, you'll receive the same punishment as not believing. This is why Pascal suggests it is logical to at least believe in something to better increase you're chances at a substantive reward should you be correct.


I bolded it for you to make it easy. That bolded statement is something you have completely made up and is not consistent with the premises as you laid them out. You are incoherent and either trolling or remarkably stupid.

EDIT: Millitron also pointed out the same thing as I was posting this.


So tell me IgNe

If you are correct that you get nothing when you die--what do you get when you die?

It's a tautologically correct system. I you believe you get nothing by dying, then being correct give you nothing.

If you are wrong and you actually do get something when you die--then when you die you get something. The only way believing in no afterlife rewards you is if you are wrong. Tautologically speaking. I did not have to make it up--it's the whole point of the phrase "nothing happens after you die"

We can definitely argue over which afterlife requirements are most logical and benefiting to society. For example, if you believe that the only way to "heaven" is by not believing in god then go for it. Whatever floats your boat. The choices about which version of a possible heaven is infinite (as I have said exhaustively).

However, only one of those options doesn't give you anything if you are truly correct about it--which is believing there is no afterlife.

You're forgetting that it is equally likely that you only get your great afterlife if you believe there is no afterlife. Being correct in and of itself is no reward. Being right or wrong doesn't matter. The point is which one gets you into heaven. It is equally likely that you will be rewarded for being wrong as it is that you will be rewarded for being right.


And if Pascal's wager was about the Best way into heaven then this would be a valid argument.

However, Pascal's wager is about the consequences of the rewards of being right. Wanting to change the discourse is fine, but you need to state that you no longer wish to discuss the wager and no simply start talking about other concepts outside of the initial premise.

It's still related though because it is equally likely that you will be rewarded for being wrong. So Pascal is wrong when he says believing there's no afterlife can get you nothing.


And if that was his stance, he would be. But he does say that we cannot know which one is right--but that there is no benefit to being correct with believing in no afterlife. When you're wrong about there being no afterlife the rewards or punishments is unknown, but the reward is constant and knowable (nothing)

And so if you believe the only way into heaven is not having an afterlife--you can easily make that your afterlife of choice. Nothing wrong with it.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18158 Posts
April 01 2015 02:57 GMT
#4388
On April 01 2015 11:43 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2015 11:36 Millitron wrote:
On April 01 2015 11:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 11:16 Millitron wrote:
On April 01 2015 11:07 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:58 IgnE wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:44 IgnE wrote:
Wow. You can't read.


What did I misread?


On April 01 2015 10:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On April 01 2015 10:16 IgnE wrote:
No one cares if you are correct. What are you talking about? Seriously. You don't get anything extra by being "correct."


Pascals Wager is completely about being correct and the consequences tha results from it.

If it is true that there is no afterlife--then there is no afterlife and your meaning ceases.
If it's true that of the infinite possible after life's that the one you picked is right--then you are rewarded.
If it's true that of the infinite possible after life's that the one you picked was wrong--then you are punished the same as if you believed there was no afterlife.

All choices are statistically wrong. But there's no reward to being correct should you believe in no afterlife.

The reward for being correct in choosing an afterlife is "something" as opposed to nothing. If you're wrong, you'll receive the same punishment as not believing. This is why Pascal suggests it is logical to at least believe in something to better increase you're chances at a substantive reward should you be correct.


I bolded it for you to make it easy. That bolded statement is something you have completely made up and is not consistent with the premises as you laid them out. You are incoherent and either trolling or remarkably stupid.

EDIT: Millitron also pointed out the same thing as I was posting this.


So tell me IgNe

If you are correct that you get nothing when you die--what do you get when you die?

It's a tautologically correct system. I you believe you get nothing by dying, then being correct give you nothing.

If you are wrong and you actually do get something when you die--then when you die you get something. The only way believing in no afterlife rewards you is if you are wrong. Tautologically speaking. I did not have to make it up--it's the whole point of the phrase "nothing happens after you die"

We can definitely argue over which afterlife requirements are most logical and benefiting to society. For example, if you believe that the only way to "heaven" is by not believing in god then go for it. Whatever floats your boat. The choices about which version of a possible heaven is infinite (as I have said exhaustively).

However, only one of those options doesn't give you anything if you are truly correct about it--which is believing there is no afterlife.

You're forgetting that it is equally likely that you only get your great afterlife if you believe there is no afterlife. Being correct in and of itself is no reward. Being right or wrong doesn't matter. The point is which one gets you into heaven. It is equally likely that you will be rewarded for being wrong as it is that you will be rewarded for being right.


And if Pascal's wager was about the Best way into heaven then this would be a valid argument.

However, Pascal's wager is about the consequences of the rewards of being right. Wanting to change the discourse is fine, but you need to state that you no longer wish to discuss the wager and no simply start talking about other concepts outside of the initial premise.

It's still related though because it is equally likely that you will be rewarded for being wrong. So Pascal is wrong when he says believing there's no afterlife can get you nothing.


And if that was his stance, he would be. But he does say that we cannot know which one is right--but that there is no benefit to being correct with believing in no afterlife. When you're wrong about there being no afterlife the rewards or punishments is unknown, but the reward is constant and knowable (nothing)

And so if you believe the only way into heaven is not having an afterlife--you can easily make that your afterlife of choice. Nothing wrong with it.


Fine, but I really really doubt that he would agree with this interpretation of his argument, as that was clearly not the way he intended it, given the context in which he made it (which was with a BINARY choice, so he may a priori disagree with all our extrapolation to many/infinite possibilities).
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
April 01 2015 06:25 GMT
#4389
On April 01 2015 09:00 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
is there any theoretical way to get close to or surpass the speed of light while somehow managing to avoid the problem off time dilation?

No.
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
April 01 2015 06:28 GMT
#4390
Can you 4 guys go somewhere else with that discussion none else cares about? It seems like you are ending up with personal insults now, so you are probably done anyway.

Thanks.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
April 01 2015 07:13 GMT
#4391
On April 01 2015 15:28 Cascade wrote:
Can you 4 guys go somewhere else with that discussion none else cares about? It seems like you are ending up with personal insults now, so you are probably done anyway.

Thanks.


I don't think there's a thread named more appropriately than this thread for any discussion on Pascal's Wager.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
excitedBear
Profile Joined March 2015
Austria120 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-01 10:59:48
April 01 2015 10:17 GMT
#4392
On April 01 2015 10:56 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2015 09:52 excitedBear wrote:
On April 01 2015 09:00 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
is there any theoretical way to get close to or surpass the speed of light while somehow managing to avoid the problem off time dilation?

Yes, you can prove that Einstein's theories are wrong. Good luck with that!



another question that's a little similar. any solid theoretical physics attempts at space travel recently? I have a book from 1993 that talks about ramjets, boussard's rocket, arks and the like but was wondering if there's anything more recent
click_me
NASA had an interstellar space travel research program that stopped in 2003 stating that "no breakthroughs in interstellar flight appear imminent".
You can also check out Icarus Interstellar.
greenelve
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany1392 Posts
April 01 2015 12:13 GMT
#4393
Which movie do you think is worse, Dragonball Evolution or The Last Airbender?
z0r.de for your daily madness /// Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of men? The Shadow knows!
AbouSV
Profile Joined October 2014
Germany1278 Posts
April 01 2015 12:38 GMT
#4394
Would DBE have been called anything else non-related to Dragon Ball, I would have said the last air bender.

But it is not the case, so definitively Dragon Ball Evolution.
fruity.
Profile Joined April 2012
England1711 Posts
April 01 2015 13:54 GMT
#4395
T Minus To potential epic-ness. But for what?
Ex Zerg learning Terran. A bold move.
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-01 13:59:23
April 01 2015 13:58 GMT
#4396
On April 01 2015 11:19 IgnE wrote:
Stupid question for the ask and answer stupid questions thread:

Does magpie know that he's moron or is he truly just that dumb?

I think he just lives for the fight
pretty sure i've legit asked him to stop arguing the same point as me before in a thread.
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
excitedBear
Profile Joined March 2015
Austria120 Posts
April 01 2015 14:42 GMT
#4397
On April 01 2015 22:54 fruity. wrote:
T Minus To potential epic-ness. But for what?
Expectations are going through the roof for this one
dale122
Profile Joined March 2015
United Kingdom0 Posts
April 01 2015 15:27 GMT
#4398
What are the chances of an afterlife if I pay for my head to be cryogenicly frozen when I die, assuming I have no mental deterioration and it is frozen in good time?
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-01 15:47:44
April 01 2015 15:30 GMT
#4399
On March 31 2015 23:41 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2015 23:20 farvacola wrote:
On March 31 2015 23:17 excitedBear wrote:
On March 27 2015 08:22 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
because it's circularly defined to be that way. if the soul is something that's metaphysical and can persist without the physical structure of the brain (but obviously contains elements of one's character characteristic to the brain), then it's metaphysical and can't be falsified by any physical experiments doable in the physical world. "where the soul resides" begs the question that the soul is a physical "thing" at all, which many people would dispute.

Any definition that does not define consciousness as the result of brain processes is metaphysical and therefore not worth talking about.
Consciousness starts and ends with a functioning brain. Beyond that it does not exist. It is the same concept as time doesn't exist before the big bang.

Thank you for making it clear that you haven't understood a single thing oneofthem said. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, bravo!

Oh, and would you care to enlighten us farvacola? There's nothing interesting about anything oneofthem has said. The crux of his argument is that scientific knowledge that has given all of our technology, our means of controling the environment around us cannot be proven to be taken as true, because of the assumption that reality has causality, is merely an assumption. It's boring and it doesn't lead anywhere. Not to mention that as far as anybody but the insane (literally), reality do follow assumptions. When you move parts of your body, your arm doesn't just simply disappear and reappear somewhere else for instance. When you throw a ball the same way within set conditions, it does tend to land in the same place. When you put food in your fridge, the food doesn't disappear unless someone has eaten it when you weren't looking. If you put an object in a box, when you open the box, the object will still be there. When you fall asleep in your bed in your room, you don't wake up on the moon. When you look into a mirror, that is a reflection of your person, not another person. These are all assumptions. Basically oneofthem has said something you think is immensely interesting to you, or you don't fully grasp the concept, but really it is dreadfully circular and mundane and ultimately leads nowhere.

i am speechless at this display of reading skills. wow!

i've directly said i am realist about scientific theory and objects, think naive truth theory is good and im against analytic metaphysics. these are very strong pro-science positions.

i've only disputed an extreme form of strong verificationism on the ground of lacking self consciousness about its own status as a theory of meaning, or in the poster's word, a philosophy.

your reading of my posts is literally wat.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
excitedBear
Profile Joined March 2015
Austria120 Posts
April 01 2015 15:56 GMT
#4400
Misunderstandings are the only thing that keep philosophy going.
At the end of the day, everyone is saying the same thing, because everyone uses the same language/logic/brain.
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