EPTJustice is Justice imo. Either it's justice when people get off on legal technicalities or it isn't, ones relationship to the victim shouldn't change ones opinion on the matter.
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GreenHorizons
United States24369 Posts
Justice is Justice imo. Either it's justice when people get off on legal technicalities or it isn't, ones relationship to the victim shouldn't change ones opinion on the matter. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On March 07 2015 06:28 GreenHorizons wrote: I'm saying that a lawyers view of 'justice' changes when it's their family vs anonymous people. While I understand the proximity aspect, it seems incongruent to me for ones view of 'justice' to change depending on your relationship to the situation. Justice is Justice imo. Either it's justice when people get off on legal technicalities or it isn't, ones relationship to the victim shouldn't change ones opinion on the matter. i thought the original question was about the ethical dilemma an attorney faces when they learn of their client's guilt during the representation. is that not the case? from your subsequent comments, it seems you were asking something much broader. also, if my family was raped and murdered and i "know" a guy did it, i am not interested in justice. i want revenge. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24369 Posts
On March 07 2015 06:35 dAPhREAk wrote: i thought the original question was about the ethical dilemma an attorney faces when they learn of their client's guilt during the representation. is that not the case? from your subsequent comments, it seems you were asking something much broader. also, if my family was raped and murdered and i "know" a guy did it, i am not interested in justice. i want revenge. Would you seek it or just want it? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18449 Posts
Objection your honor. Impertinent! | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
i am fairly certain that i would not act rationally and reduce my savings to nothing to seek revenge, if thats what you are asking. however, i have never been placed in that situation fortunately so i am not quite sure how i would react. | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States24369 Posts
On March 07 2015 07:01 dAPhREAk wrote: i am fairly certain that i would not act rationally and reduce my savings to nothing to seek revenge, if thats what you are asking. however, i have never been placed in that situation fortunately so i am not quite sure how i would react. I just find that how what becomes an acceptable outcome changes depending on ones relation to the ones who were harmed interesting. I also find the moral/ethical/practice questions intriguing. So you would likely have animosity (contemplate revenge) toward the guy who got off but you would think his lawyer did a great job for justice? | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On March 07 2015 07:39 GreenHorizons wrote: I just find that how what becomes an acceptable outcome changes depending on ones relation to the ones who were harmed interesting. I also find the moral/ethical/practice questions intriguing. So you would likely have animosity (contemplate revenge) toward the guy who got off but you would think his lawyer did a great job for justice? i would contemplate revenge whether the guy got off or went to prison (even under the death penalty). lets make that clear. with respect to the lawyer, i would not fault him for doing his job (assuming he followed the law in doing it). i am not sure of the connection you are creating between these two. one guy raped and murdered my family, the other guy did nothing unethical or illegal assumedly. edit: should we also fault the prosecutor who may have not presented an appropriate case, the judge for making judgment calls on evidence that lead to incriminating evidence being excluded, the jurors for not doing their jobs well enough, the bailiff for being nice to the defendant and making the defendant more appealing to the jurors, etc. nope. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24369 Posts
On March 07 2015 07:46 dAPhREAk wrote: i would contemplate revenge whether the guy got off or went to prison (even under the death penalty). lets make that clear. with respect to the lawyer, i would not fault him for doing his job (assuming he followed the law in doing it). i am not sure of the connection you are creating between these two. one guy raped and murdered my family, the other guy did nothing unethical or illegal assumedly. Just checking if there is consistency. You would hold the guy who committed the crime responsible and would hold no animosity toward the person instrumental in setting them free, because they did it legally. Although in the eyes of the law, the accused wasn't guilty of doing anything illegal either. A separate but somewhat related question would be: Can a good lawyer break the law? Some laws, no laws, any law? | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
i consider myself a "good" lawyer and i break the law on a daily basis. i think you need to be more specific if you want a real answer. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24369 Posts
On March 07 2015 08:07 dAPhREAk wrote: i am not sure if my answers were consistent or not. i consider myself a "good" lawyer and i break the law on a daily basis. i think you need to be more specific if you want a real answer. So the general statement "Good lawyers can break the law, and still be good lawyers" would be factually accurate? EDIT: added after the comma for clarity | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
On March 07 2015 08:09 GreenHorizons wrote: So the general statement "Good lawyers can break the law" would be factually accurate?  I really can't see the logic in this line of questioning any more. As far as I can tell its either griding a personal axe, or the result of some really good drugs. His theoretical response to the brutal death of his family has nothing to do with being a good lawyer, and someones theoretical response to something has nothing to do with if they are good at their job or not. Maybe if they're a good person if you really want to reach, but this conversation is giving me a headache. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On March 07 2015 08:09 GreenHorizons wrote: So the general statement "Good lawyers can break the law, and still be good lawyers" would be factually accurate? EDIT: added after the comma for clarity since we are being generic, sure. just like "good people can kill people and still be good people" would be factually accurate. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On March 07 2015 08:07 dAPhREAk wrote: i am not sure if my answers were consistent or not. i consider myself a "good" lawyer and i break the law on a daily basis. i think you need to be more specific if you want a real answer. Time for you to self-report. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24369 Posts
On March 07 2015 08:23 dAPhREAk wrote: since we are being generic, sure. just like "good people can kill people and still be good people" would be factually accurate. Fair enough. Well, this is one of those times I wish there was some sort of system for passive observers to indicate the value they place on posts. I'd like to continue our conversation and like other lawyers to chime in if they would do/think anything different or simply concur with your opinions. Jaaaasper has expressed his feelings on the value, but there is not really to a way to assess the value the observing community feels. If I'm the only one getting anything out of this (maybe Phreak too) I'd be fine trying to lure the lawyers  into a blog or something . | ||
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
CalBar applies a generous slap to the wrist to drunk drivers and people who steal their own clients' money. i am sure they don't care about my traffic infractions. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24369 Posts
On March 07 2015 09:01 dAPhREAk wrote: CalBar applies a generous slap to the wrist to drunk drivers and people who steal their own clients' money. i am sure they don't care about my traffic infractions. lol I was wondering if xDaunt was serious or not? Anyway I made the blog. Hopefully I can get you guys and maybe more to continue to respond there, as so we don't clutter up Jaaspers precious 'stupid questions' EDIT: Forgot link "Interview with a Lawyer" (hopefully several) | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
oxymoron | ||
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